As a follow up on the age question, I have a post similar to this going on a private FB group I'm part of asking ages. As of early on December 4th, the age average is roughly at about 45. Most are between 20 and 70 but there are a few people on it younger than 20 with some also older than 70 so IMHO there seems to be a healthy span of modelers and/or people with an interest.
There's another part of all of this we're missing - that of the person who does not use a computer!!
Yesterday I received a call from a person who saw the new product announcement in the 2021 December issue (Thank you MR!!) and he wanted to order one. I told him him he could order online. This person proceeded to tell me as follows: He's 71, has a flip phone, doesn't own a computer and will drive to his LHS somewhere in California. He asked if I could take his credit card over the phone and I told him it's best if he sends a check to us to place his order.
So you have to think how many people do not use the internet to buy things or find out how great the hobby is due to forums like this one! I kind of felt bad for the guy, and I wound up chatting with him for 15 minutes. Think he enjoyed it and we have a future customer. Just hope he doesn't decide to call at night to 'chat'...!
Neal
I'm pretty happy with the way things have developed in model railroading. I'm 74 and I've been doing this for a long time, and I find today's offerings to totally improve my experience in the hobby. I can generally build a layout however I want to. If I want to scratch-build a structure, I can, or I can find either a wood or plastic kit, build that or I can open a box and plop the contents down.
Time, as much as we try to push it back, speed it up or build a world from the past, does not permit me to do everything I would like. So, I can literally pick and choose which activities I enjoy most.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrebell dknelson When I started in HO the average age of a model railroader was early adulthood to the mid 30s and since there were plenty of senior citizens in the hobby back then that meant there was a really large supply of young modelers, meaning beginners, to put the average where it was. It would be interesting to know what the mean age was back then but nobody was doing statistical gathering like that. My hunch is that there were actually relatively few model railroaders of the so-called average age of 25 to 35. Result: lots of model railroad goods aimed at beginners, which in turn had an impact on pricing and availability, and frankly, on prototype accuracy as well. Everybody complained that it seemed like the only road names available were the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania Railroad. The guys who modeled those three railroads seemed like kings of the hill. Fewer noticed or mentioned that those models were rarely accurate for Santa Fe, UP, or Pennsy. Now the average age is post-retirement and getting older, not because more seniors are in the hobby but because there are fewer on the other end of the age spectrum to drag down the average. We often already have all the track and control systems we'll ever want, we're up to our armpits in locomotives and rolling stock, and now our interests are more granular like scenery, more specialized in era and locale, better informed about prototype, and quite possibly not shared enough with other local modelers to support a money making train store. Dave Nelson Accually wrong reason for the older age statistic, the reason is we are living longer and in better health. I remember when I was a kid, lots of people 65 and older were humped over and had bad lungs and were in generaly terrible shape, not as many of those percentage wise now. Average life expectancy was around 65, now it is 77 and a vast majority are in much better shape.
dknelson When I started in HO the average age of a model railroader was early adulthood to the mid 30s and since there were plenty of senior citizens in the hobby back then that meant there was a really large supply of young modelers, meaning beginners, to put the average where it was. It would be interesting to know what the mean age was back then but nobody was doing statistical gathering like that. My hunch is that there were actually relatively few model railroaders of the so-called average age of 25 to 35. Result: lots of model railroad goods aimed at beginners, which in turn had an impact on pricing and availability, and frankly, on prototype accuracy as well. Everybody complained that it seemed like the only road names available were the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania Railroad. The guys who modeled those three railroads seemed like kings of the hill. Fewer noticed or mentioned that those models were rarely accurate for Santa Fe, UP, or Pennsy. Now the average age is post-retirement and getting older, not because more seniors are in the hobby but because there are fewer on the other end of the age spectrum to drag down the average. We often already have all the track and control systems we'll ever want, we're up to our armpits in locomotives and rolling stock, and now our interests are more granular like scenery, more specialized in era and locale, better informed about prototype, and quite possibly not shared enough with other local modelers to support a money making train store. Dave Nelson
When I started in HO the average age of a model railroader was early adulthood to the mid 30s and since there were plenty of senior citizens in the hobby back then that meant there was a really large supply of young modelers, meaning beginners, to put the average where it was. It would be interesting to know what the mean age was back then but nobody was doing statistical gathering like that. My hunch is that there were actually relatively few model railroaders of the so-called average age of 25 to 35.
Result: lots of model railroad goods aimed at beginners, which in turn had an impact on pricing and availability, and frankly, on prototype accuracy as well. Everybody complained that it seemed like the only road names available were the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania Railroad. The guys who modeled those three railroads seemed like kings of the hill. Fewer noticed or mentioned that those models were rarely accurate for Santa Fe, UP, or Pennsy.
Now the average age is post-retirement and getting older, not because more seniors are in the hobby but because there are fewer on the other end of the age spectrum to drag down the average. We often already have all the track and control systems we'll ever want, we're up to our armpits in locomotives and rolling stock, and now our interests are more granular like scenery, more specialized in era and locale, better informed about prototype, and quite possibly not shared enough with other local modelers to support a money making train store.
Dave Nelson
Accually wrong reason for the older age statistic, the reason is we are living longer and in better health. I remember when I was a kid, lots of people 65 and older were humped over and had bad lungs and were in generaly terrible shape, not as many of those percentage wise now. Average life expectancy was around 65, now it is 77 and a vast majority are in much better shape.
In fact, it's a tad more complicated. Time's passage alters many things, including those each of you have mentioned. But technology also has an influence. So does the general appeal of the hobby as a whole.
Most people know very little about trains. Unless someone in their lineage has trains of a kind, and has exposed the younger ones to them, there will be no particular interest in trains for the huge majority of people under 50 now. This tends to apply a downward pressure in terms of absolute numbers participating in the hobby. And that will tend to leave the current practitioners, those aging well into their 60's and beyond, as representatives of current practitioners, and from there you get the rising mean age...or median if that's what you're interested in.
As well, though, is the ubiquitous smart...well.....anything, really. Our attention is being monopolized more and more, despite what this aged gentleman in the previous posts might have represented, by technology, and the interface between online shopping, online news, chats, texts, tweets, etc and model trains is only peripheral at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if most of us reading my post are well into our 50's and quite a bit beyond. Some of us spend time on line, maybe more than we should [..AHEM!..], but a lot of us only come to our technology for defined and short-lived purposes...like playing along here.
As we age, we become more inflexible and intolerant to the exigencies and demands of new....stuff. It is harder for us to deal with them, and so we become more predictable in our routines. I'm sure you won't find many arduino users in the heavy majority of us who post here regularly, or who are still in DC in the hobby. We have managed to deal with the demands of DCC and can still tolerate all it takes to keep our decoders usable. Meanwhile, those under 40 are off doing their own things, mostly, with a few enjoying grandpa's train set. A very few,
dknelson When I started in HO the average age of a model railroader was early adulthood to the mid 30s and since there were plenty of senior citizens in the hobby back then that meant there was a really large supply of young modelers, meaning beginners, to put the average where it was. It would be interesting to know what the mean age was back then but nobody was doing statistical gathering like that. My hunch is that there were actually relatively few model railroaders of the so-called average age of 25 to 35. Result: lots of model railroad goods aimed at beginners, which in turn had an impact on pricing and availability, and frankly, on prototype accuracy as well. Everybody complained that it seemed like the only road names available were the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania Railroad. The guys who modeled those three railroads seemed like kings of the hill. Fewer noticed or mentioned that those models were rarely accurate for Santa Fe, UP, or Pennsy. Now the average age is post-retirement and getting older, not because more seniors are in the hobby but because there are fewer on the other end of the age spectrum to drag down the average. We often already have all the track and control systems we'll ever want, we're up to our armpits in locomotives and rolling stock, and now our interests are more granular like scenery, more specialized in era and locale, better informed about prototype, and quite possibly not shared enough with other local modelers to support a money making train store. And yes I do recall the achingly lone wait for packages from America's Hobby Center. But the joy when the box arrived is well remembered too even if the dreaded "credit slip" showed that something ordered was sold out. I even liked the smell of the AHC packages. Plus they used pages from the New York Herald Tribune, Sun, Mirror, or Journal-American to cushion the shipments. Dave Nelson
And yes I do recall the achingly lone wait for packages from America's Hobby Center. But the joy when the box arrived is well remembered too even if the dreaded "credit slip" showed that something ordered was sold out. I even liked the smell of the AHC packages. Plus they used pages from the New York Herald Tribune, Sun, Mirror, or Journal-American to cushion the shipments.
kasskaboose Dave's correct that most of the folks in this hobby are older. Nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is when people are unwilling to help encourage newer folks from getting into the hobby. Overwhelming them with reminders about the many books to read, money to spend, etc. seems less engaging then remembering that we all started at square one.
I think time and money and space are what put the hobby at risk for younger people. Myself and my friends in our 30's, we don't own houses with extra space. This is important because my generation at this moment is less likelier to own a house, not just because of cost, but location in a big city. I do live in a condo and therefore have a dedicated 12' x 12' room in the basement, but I use that for operating power tools. My layout is built out in the open common area which would normally be forbidden it weren't for the fact that I'm the only person on the HOA board out of 10 units and my neighbors simply tolerate the fact that there's model trains in the basement. My friends not in the hobby, compliment that it's modular and can be put away as they can't fathom a permanent bench setup. It's always "well when I get old and have a forever house maybe I'd pick up the hobby". but a younger generation today is far more transient, moving more often between cities, so nothing can be built permanently.
Then there's the families, my friends with kids are heavily invested in sports and video games. They've bought them model train starter kits which they enjoy, but the time it would take to grow and expand that to a table layout just isn't available, not for the parents or the kids.
Personally, I believe the hobby has improved greatly. I stopped building my layout when I entered high school in 1998, and then for no reason picked back up in 2016
selector rrebell dknelson When I started in HO the average age of a model railroader was early adulthood to the mid 30s and since there were plenty of senior citizens in the hobby back then that meant there was a really large supply of young modelers, meaning beginners, to put the average where it was. It would be interesting to know what the mean age was back then but nobody was doing statistical gathering like that. My hunch is that there were actually relatively few model railroaders of the so-called average age of 25 to 35. Result: lots of model railroad goods aimed at beginners, which in turn had an impact on pricing and availability, and frankly, on prototype accuracy as well. Everybody complained that it seemed like the only road names available were the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania Railroad. The guys who modeled those three railroads seemed like kings of the hill. Fewer noticed or mentioned that those models were rarely accurate for Santa Fe, UP, or Pennsy. Now the average age is post-retirement and getting older, not because more seniors are in the hobby but because there are fewer on the other end of the age spectrum to drag down the average. We often already have all the track and control systems we'll ever want, we're up to our armpits in locomotives and rolling stock, and now our interests are more granular like scenery, more specialized in era and locale, better informed about prototype, and quite possibly not shared enough with other local modelers to support a money making train store. Dave Nelson Accually wrong reason for the older age statistic, the reason is we are living longer and in better health. I remember when I was a kid, lots of people 65 and older were humped over and had bad lungs and were in generaly terrible shape, not as many of those percentage wise now. Average life expectancy was around 65, now it is 77 and a vast majority are in much better shape. In fact, it's a tad more complicated. Time's passage alters many things, including those each of you have mentioned. But technology also has an influence. So does the general appeal of the hobby as a whole. Most people know very little about trains. Unless someone in their lineage has trains of a kind, and has exposed the younger ones to them, there will be no particular interest in trains for the huge majority of people under 50 now. This tends to apply a downward pressure in terms of absolute numbers participating in the hobby. And that will tend to leave the current practitioners, those aging well into their 60's and beyond, as representatives of current practitioners, and from there you get the rising mean age...or median if that's what you're interested in. As well, though, is the ubiquitous smart...well.....anything, really. Our attention is being monopolized more and more, despite what this aged gentleman in the previous posts might have represented, by technology, and the interface between online shopping, online news, chats, texts, tweets, etc and model trains is only peripheral at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if most of us reading my post are well into our 50's and quite a bit beyond. Some of us spend time on line, maybe more than we should [..AHEM!..], but a lot of us only come to our technology for defined and short-lived purposes...like playing along here. As we age, we become more inflexible and intolerant to the exigencies and demands of new....stuff. It is harder for us to deal with them, and so we become more predictable in our routines. I'm sure you won't find many arduino users in the heavy majority of us who post here regularly, or who are still in DC in the hobby. We have managed to deal with the demands of DCC and can still tolerate all it takes to keep our decoders usable. Meanwhile, those under 40 are off doing their own things, mostly, with a few enjoying grandpa's train set. A very few,
I got back into the hobby at 29 as having just retied had way too much time on my hands, and then the kids came which ment I was mostly an arm chair railroader for awhile.
selector Most people know very little about trains. Unless someone in their lineage has trains of a kind, and has exposed the younger ones to them, there will be no particular interest in trains for the huge majority of people under 50 now.
Most people know very little about trains. Unless someone in their lineage has trains of a kind, and has exposed the younger ones to them, there will be no particular interest in trains for the huge majority of people under 50 now.
Don't forget about those kids who have grown up around Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. I imagine some of them weren't exposed to trains before that.
selector And that will tend to leave the current practitioners, those aging well into their 60's and beyond, as representatives of current practitioners, and from there you get the rising mean age...or median if that's what you're interested in. As well, though, is the ubiquitous smart...well.....anything, really. Our attention is being monopolized more and more, despite what this aged gentleman in the previous posts might have represented, by technology, and the interface between online shopping, online news, chats, texts, tweets, etc and model trains is only peripheral at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if most of us reading my post are well into our 50's and quite a bit beyond. Some of us spend time on line, maybe more than we should [..AHEM!..], but a lot of us only come to our technology for defined and short-lived purposes...like playing along here. As we age, we become more inflexible and intolerant to the exigencies and demands of new....stuff. It is harder for us to deal with them, and so we become more predictable in our routines. I'm sure you won't find many arduino users in the heavy majority of us who post here regularly, or who are still in DC in the hobby. We have managed to deal with the demands of DCC and can still tolerate all it takes to keep our decoders usable. Meanwhile, those under 40 are off doing their own things, mostly, with a few enjoying grandpa's train set. A very few,
And that will tend to leave the current practitioners, those aging well into their 60's and beyond, as representatives of current practitioners, and from there you get the rising mean age...or median if that's what you're interested in.
I'm not to the 50 point yet. I'm also in that category of people who are still running straight DC. (I do have a few engines that I think are DCC equipped only because I had an older gentleman give them to me about two years ago as he could no longer model. While he modeled a different era than I do, they still fit with a bit of minor relettering for a successor railroad.) As to the online grumble, there are places in the world that don't have a close LHS or other people that model railroad so that is the only way that they can interact with their fellow rallroaders even if we've never met in person. And I don't tweet either.
NorthsideChi Personally, I believe the hobby has improved greatly.
Personally, I believe the hobby has improved greatly.
I agree with you.
An "expensive model collector"
Good morning
Interesting thread rrebell, I have enjoyed reading here. I'll post my two cents as I think it indirectly relates to the subject.
I was chatting with my buddy that owns a hobby shop in St Paul a while back. Even though I pay more for some things that I need, it's worth it for the atmosphere and the good conversation on any given visit.
Bruce was telling me how he can't even keep up with the demand for DMIR stuff in N scale. He managed to find a very large quantity of the rust colored DMIR 70 ton ore cars with different reporting numbers. I'm pretty sure it was a run of brand new old stock. He told me they don't even stay on the shelf and sold like hotcakes in a little over a week. "I wish I could get more" he said.
I find the same to be true on the internet. Any DMIR, DWP and also Northern Pacific Lowry paint scheme just to name a few seem to be sold almost immediately when listed, even if a bit overpriced.
It would seem to me, if a hobby shop owner and just a regular Joe Schmoe such as myself can see this kind of high demand. Makes me wonder why the larger retailers in this hobby can't see it and manufacture these models that sell quickly.
A well-known fact this hobby is not as widespread as it used to be. I don't understand how major suppliers (interested in making money) choose not to meet higher demand with some of their products.
TF
Track fiddler A well-known fact this hobby is not as widespread as it used to be. I don't understand how major suppliers (interested in making money) choose not to meet higher demand with some of their products.
I think that argument is a bit counter-intuitive, but from what I understand there are some factors at play.
Yes the hobby is not as widely spread, but it has shifted towards higher quality products. The old TYCO stuff that was a cheap toy is certainly no longer in vogue, outside of simple starter sets. Blue Box type kits kept costs low by making the customer assemble them at home, but RTR is certainly more in vogue and customers are willing to pay the extra cost to have an RTR product (time is money they say and a RTR product now is not a workbench project still gathering dust years later). As such the models we have now not only are more expensive as a consumer, but are more expensive as a manufacturer. So more high quality molds, more tooling, more costs to the factory in China to pay for the assembly, more pad printing or waterslide decals to be applied in the factory, sturdier packing to assure the details don't break in shipping, etc. So in this market every product has to sell to hit that break even.
So model companies end up with two choices, since there is no magic cyrstal ball to tell them exactly what they will sell... they can either over-produce product and have it sitting around for years slowly selling things and losing money paying for product to sit on a shelf. Or they can under-produce it, be guranteed to sell out each run, and then wait a few years for demand to rise again before a second batch runs which is ALSO guranteed to sell out. So for profit margins alone, under-producing product can be a more appealing strategy than over-producing.
Since model railroading is already such a thin in the margins venture already, I do not think we should fault the manufacturers for taking that strategy of short highly hyped runs. The alternative is much worse, over-produce and you end up with dust collecting boxes in hobby shop shelves. This is further made worse that many hobby shops don't buy the product outright, but instead sell under a scheme were the manufacturer gives them product, but neither the store or manufacturer make a profit until the product sells. 40 boxes of unsold product on a shelf is a net zero profit for the manufacturer, and robs vital hobby store space from other products that would maybe sell better. Sure maybe a company with big warehouses like Walthers or MB Klein can do that and hold onto product for ages, but could your LHS do such and keep their overhead covered as well? Product not sold is profits not made. Again on the consumer's side, I get it. Artificial scarcity sucks, and it can be bad news to discover one model you want has not been made for several years, and won't be back on market for several more. But its a much better buisness model than the alternative, and since this hobby market is so small, short runs is the best way to keep the hype and interest in a product up. I know its "the other magazine" as far as this board is concerned, but please pick up some Railroad Model Craftsman copies lately and read the stuff Jason writes in the end. Its a great window into the manufacturing side that everyone should be familiar with as the hobby goes forward.
Track fiddler,I'm not surprised DMIR sells out in St. Paul. The problem is that DMIR isn't selling in such great numbers elsewhere. I'm in a large 65-member HO club in the Boston area and we register our equipment. Out of the 2000 engines on our roster, not one DMIR engine is on the list. There aren't any DWP locos, either, but there are 9 NP engines (an A-B-B-A set of F's, an RDC, an 0-8-0, and two ES44DC's from T55).
We're a very regional hobby. Just because something sells out quickly and easily in the hundreds in St. Paul doesn't mean that a manufacturer can sell the thousands needed to make a profit.The question I have is that if the St. Paul dealer knows he can sell tons of DMIR product, why didn't he order more to being with? This is almost a made-to-order hobby these days; if a hobby shop orders 500 cars he should get his 500 cars. The problem is that hobby shops are generally C.O.D. and many can't afford to buy that kind of inventory all at once. Well, same goes for manufacturers. They can't afford to stock that kind of inventory all at once, either. Many take out loans to pay for design, pay for tooling, pay for production, pay for shipping, and pay for distribution before they earn a single cent. No one wants to sit on unsold inventory, so they order enough to fill all the orders, plus a guesstimated percentage over that to take care of late/extra orders, plus some extras for warranty or replacement work.The manufacturer's risk vs. reward is simple: make too few and risk annoying some customers who waited too long to order and potentially miss out on some sales, or make too many and risk losing a lot of money and going out of business. If the job was paying for your mortage, which side would you err on?I disagree on your "well known fact" that the hobby isn't "as widespread as it used t be", mainly because I'm not sure what you mean by that. It certainly appears to be as busy as ever from the manufacturing side of things.
Thanks for the responses Travis, Paul.
To clarify, "Not as wide spread as it used to be" as I see I was quite vague, my point was the younger generation. Most of us when we were kids were interested in the hobby. Most kids these days are more interested in technology, phones, computers, video games, etc... than a hobby.
I think most model railroaders in today's world are typically older and further along with thier skill levels giving them an even greater interest the second time around. Bigger bank to afford and appreciate how much better every thing in model railroading is today and willing to pay for it as well.
Makes complete sense to me both your points on suppliers marketing strategies and a large enough demand. I'd have to completely agree with those points. A different scenario but I remember the famous Disney animation movies when my kids were young only came out every 5 years as the same marketing strategy. So I do get it.
I have noticed looking at an old 70 ton ore car from the 70's and looking at a currant one, that they are identical. It doesn't appear Atlas has changed their molds in years.
Hopefully, one of these days they slap some rust paint and some DMIR decals on some after they come out of the molds I also wish Micro-Trains would get into the ore car game. Then I wouldn't have to switch out the trucks.
P.S. The Train club thing has had my interest for quite a few years Paul. The Twin Cities Model Railroad Museum has a really huge impressive layout. One time I was down there one of the guys told me I should join the club and come down and finish the large bridge that isn't done. Quite tempting! Sure wish this pandemic would break so I could feel better about doing that.
Track fiddler To clarify, "Not as wide spread as it used to be" as I see I was quite vague, my point was the younger generation. Most of us when we were kids were interested in the hobby. Most kids these days are more interested in technology, phones, computers, video games, etc... than a hobby.
I might as well counter this as well, but I think the idea that there is not a high number of young people in model railroading has more to do with generational differences and how certain age groups congregate compared to others. I would agree, the cultural prevelance of model railroading has changed and the younger generation certainly falls into it as a niche/nerd hobby compared to something more mainstream that it seems to be in older generations.
But to grab some quick data:
There are over 3100+ members of the Railroads ONLINE! Discord server right now (a video game based on 19th century American narrow gauge railroading). The Model Railroading channel there has had roughly 40 replies to it today already.
The Unlucky Tug a YouTube channel dedicated in part to Thomas and Friends and The Railway Series has posted several videos detailing his model railroad kitbashing of "realistic" takes on Thomas characters, the first video of the series with over a half a million views (notable since I would say Thomas nostalgia is pretty strong amoung the 20-30 something year old age set right now): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2N8T1Qp46U&list=PLcqCi46_OzdaCOkaugWcfk0bmqAFAC78w
My own railfan circle runs with a private chat between several of my friends and I (about 9 people). I am one of the oldest at 27 nearing 28, youngest in the group abour 19 or so. None of us have a major basement layout per se or any huge projects, but we have several kitbashers, collectors, and current and former employees of local hobby shops; and one of us has a published article on kitbashing he wrote for RMC. All of us live within the same metropolitan area a short distance away from each other. Our scales are primarily HO, with me as the OO9 guy out. Speaking of OO9 I have another seperate chat with several British modelers to help me keep tabs on what is happening across the pond in that scale. Now I certainly think that older hobby members punch harder in a fiscal sense. Being established with a morgatge paid off, a basement to fill, and spare income means an older hobby set can purchase and buy more in one sitting than the under-30 crowd can. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of younger hobby members either.
I think the key thing to understand though is how the generational difference especially in technology and communication has changed how people communicate. I don't need a formal club and a charter to be able to communicate on a daily basis with my friends, since we can do it directly and instantly over the internet. If I have a direct question I can field it to my close friends first, look for tutorials on YouTube or forums secondly, then chase down books or magazine articles if none of those have a solution to my problem. But the result is it means in part the younger crowd flies in a completely seperate circle of association than the older hobby generation, and the two rarely interact outside of say a train show type setting.
I'm consider myself fortunate to be born in such a exciting time of change and innovation, both outside and in the hobby, and it has opened the door to completely new frontiers.
In this day and age there has never been a better time to jump in and start going for it. We are located in the middle of both worlds, with improved technology, DCC sound, delicate and well done details, ready to go out of the box onto the layout, and on the other side of the spectrum are the old Tycos sitting in the bargain bins under the train table, ready for a new lease of life. Like a lot of my peers, the bracket of older teenagers-young adults, life for has gotten in the way for the past few months which is why I vanished off the forums, but now that some things are settled I'm much more free to do something in the hobby and pick up old projects.
I'm not too concerned about accuracy as much as I used to- I need to learn new things anyhow and at the end it's about enjoying the flow of things.
"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang
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L. Zhou, It's good to see you again! I always enjoy what you have to say. Hope you and your friends had some fun this last Summer.
L. Zhou I'm not too concerned about accuracy as much as I used to- I need to learn new things anyhow and at the end it's about enjoying the flow of things.
Something I'm trying to learn. I'm a slow modeler from the start and tend to get stuck nitpicking my work apart making things even slower. I'm trying to learn, one can always fine-tune things when they're further along reaching that positive flow.
Don't be a stranger
Model railroading is forever changing be it the models, technology different supply methods etc.
When I was a boy a clockwork 0.4.0 locomotive was 'The Flying Scotsman' rattling round an oval track.
Electric trains and rolling stock was crudely made, but our imagination dispels such thoughts.
What wasn't available was hand made. Maybe not HO/OO scale, but good enough. To buy items of model railroading it meant a trip to a model shop.
There was always one somewhere. When we were in Ostend way back in time, round the corner was a model shop. Family knew where I was as I 'drooled' over the 1880s style four wheeled carriages etc. Oh! they would fit in so well now at Leeds Sovereign Street had I the money and known what I was to build.
Throughout time the models have improved tremendously as we know. DCC is the way these days (for those that wish the 'tecky stuff'). Personally I am not interested. (Too old to bother and too many locomotives to alter. )
Mail order was a help for items available if collection was difficult to do. Then the internet gave access to a worldwide 'store'. The local model shop found it difficult to compete and many have closed.
What I have found now is that customers of internet suppliers are becoming disenchanted with the service provided. (Just my opinion.) Customers are wanting the personal service again. The model shops that remain are finding sales are increasing.
Children and model railways. Children will always like model railways. Their imagination still knows no boundaries. They can have more fun than we ever did; if they are allowed.
Model Railway magazines have been mentioned. (My opinion only) I find that some magazines (here in the U.K.) publish their favourite articles only and do not look at other modellers' work. Hence sales are falling.
The future. Model railways will always be here in one form or another. Even if model railway Companies only cater for the 'Collector' (as it appears here) the child in us will find a way.
We talk of our modelling heroes of the past. I see many layouts being built now that will be remembered by the next generation (and beyond).
Whatever you are doing regarding model railways, enjoy the journey. Involve children if you can. They have great imagination like we had. Have fun. It is a hobby that does last a lifetime.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
I'm joining this conversation late but I'll throw my two cent in anyway. Consumers vote with their dollars what they want. Manufacturers who want those dollars are going to strive to give them what they want. In the early days of the hobby, mostly what they had to give was scratch building materials. That gave way to kit building and kit bashing. Eventually RTR and pre-built structures became available and the quality of those are getting better and better. Better than anything I could scratch build. All of these trends have made it easier and less time consuming to build quality layouts and that is a good thing. I see nothing noble about doing things the hard way when easier ways of getting it done are available. If some still get satisfaction out a scratchbuilding, that option remains open to them but that is no longer necessary to build a quality layout. If I had the funds, I would pay someone to build my layout because the finished product is what gives me the satisfaction, not the journey to get there which I find to be tedious. Anything that makes the journey less tedious is a major enhancement to the hobby.
The same is true with online shopping vs. brick-and-mortar stores. It's a choice of convenience vs. service. I like having both options available. I still stop by the LHS because I like browsing. I often find bargains at the second hand merchandise section and that's cheaper than ebay because I don't have to pay shipping. I still buy most of my staples there. However, the LHS is almost an hour away and since the pandemic I have less reason to travel into Columbus, Oh so shopping there would require a special trip. I find I can buy much of what I want through Amazon and will get it in a day or two. Since I have a prime membership, the shipping costs are prepaid. Brick-and-mortar stores will stay in business if they give consumers something the online retailers can't. So far, my LHS seems to be holding up. I'm not privy to their books so I have no idea what impact the pandemic and the online sellers are having on their bottom line but I see no drop off in their selection of merchandise or the quality of their service. They must be doing something right.
rrebell I have a currant phone
I didn't know that they made edible cell phones.
maxman rrebell I have a currant phone I didn't know that they made edible cell phones.
One of the assumptions is that online shopping has forced many LHS to close. While that's probably true to some extent, the fact is many of these would have closed even without online shopping due to factors such as a poor business model, bad location, etc. Then there are instances when an owner retires and there's no one who wants to take over the business. Competition has always been a factor in business. Before there was online shopping, there was competition among the LHS. Some made it and some didn't. Online retailing is just another competitor. They've no doubt knocked some LHS out of business but the strong ones remain. That's business. You can't afford to rest on your laurels.
xboxtravis7992 Now I certainly think that older hobby members punch harder in a fiscal sense. Being established with a morgatge paid off, a basement to fill, and spare income means an older hobby set can purchase and buy more in one sitting than the under-30 crowd can. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of younger hobby members either.
Now I certainly think that older hobby members punch harder in a fiscal sense. Being established with a morgatge paid off, a basement to fill, and spare income means an older hobby set can purchase and buy more in one sitting than the under-30 crowd can. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of younger hobby members either.
Engi1487 xboxtravis7992 Now I certainly think that older hobby members punch harder in a fiscal sense. Being established with a morgatge paid off, a basement to fill, and spare income means an older hobby set can purchase and buy more in one sitting than the under-30 crowd can. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of younger hobby members either. I am glad you mentioned Unlucky Tug! This videos are what got me interested in the lore and TTTE in general. On the fiscal punch sense you mentioned,I am concered that due to the current economic cirucmstances (wages not overcoming inflation, taking more time to pay off increasing student dept, benefits and retirment plans beocming a thing of the past etc) along with inflating housing costs outpacing peoples savings I am concered that having a home with extra space for a layout, and the time to actully work with time running out as you age on it is going to affect the future of the hobby for younger persons like myself and you and everyone else of all ages.
I am glad you mentioned Unlucky Tug! This videos are what got me interested in the lore and TTTE in general. On the fiscal punch sense you mentioned,I am concered that due to the current economic cirucmstances (wages not overcoming inflation, taking more time to pay off increasing student dept, benefits and retirment plans beocming a thing of the past etc) along with inflating housing costs outpacing peoples savings I am concered that having a home with extra space for a layout, and the time to actully work with time running out as you age on it is going to affect the future of the hobby for younger persons like myself and you and everyone else of all ages.
Oh certainly, that is part of why I took up my OO9 project; mostly to make a mobile layout that is about 2' by 4' feet in space, compact easy to move, cheap. I love HO scale stuff, but I find the required curves and scale to make things look right just is to big to do in a portable layout, unless its a multiple modular set up like Free-Mo... and even then that requires other people willing to collaborate on setting up all those modules to run. O scale is just out of the question in terms of size and cost. I think a shift towards smaller layouts and more modularity has begun to try and confront those issues, and that seems to be reflected in the hobby press's burgeoning focus on those more compact layouts.
The only problem with the statement that RTR is the best way to go and that scratch bulding/kit building/kit bashing is not the best way to do things is that there are prototypes out there that no commercial company has produced. For my old layout, I kit bashed a bridge similar to the old NP "subway" that is less than a block from my now house and kit bashed a few other buildings to make unique structures for that layout. For the new layout, quite a few of those buildings were saved and reused. (The bridge wasn't reused as the new layout doesn't have a need for that design.) I have also scratch built two bridges (one highway, one track) to span a river that was on a section that was reused from the old layout. Both of those were based on prototype plans that were specific to the state for the highway and the railroad for the track bridge. I have also had a few so-called RTR cars that weren't due to bad lettering from the company (wrong fonts, inaccurate car numbers, etc.) that needed to be fixed for accuracy.
Regarding the statement that online shopping has killed the LHS, there are communities where the LHS was long gone or never existed even before online shopping became popular and the purchasing was done by catalogs and s-mail orders paid with checks and money orders. Additionally, sometimes older items can be found online that could not be found in an LHS no matter how hard one tries. Even now the closest shops to me are 45 miles to the east and about 150 miles to the west.
rrebell People can, on average, have the life they want. Most people don't want to work that hard or make the sacrifices neccisary to achive their goals. I have had many people say to me "I want to have what you have", I tell them how and they always say "but I don't want to work that hard".
People can, on average, have the life they want. Most people don't want to work that hard or make the sacrifices neccisary to achive their goals. I have had many people say to me "I want to have what you have", I tell them how and they always say "but I don't want to work that hard".
So true.
I tell such people, "If what you are doing is not getting what you want, then change what you are doing."
As for model railroading; people of all ages will be involved. In the (not too distant) future, with technology advancing at a fast rate, the running of trains will be a lot different from today. The children of today will welcome it because they will grow up with that technology.
As for myself, I shall remain a 'dinosaur' with my DC layout running little steam locomotives 'in 1914/1919 or diesels in '1967/1972. My grandchildren love it, because they are allowed to run trains their way whilst I relax and watch them.
Everything is cyclical. Good economic times and bad economic times don't last forever although the latter sometimes seems like it's going to. I got back into the hobby as an adult during the Carter administration and the great malaise. We had a misery index (inflation plus unempoyment rate) of almost 22%. I bought my first house in 1979 with a mortgage rate of 9 1/2% which was historically high. Within a few years it seemed like a bargain as mortgage rates climbed to the mid teens. Few young people could afford to buy homes and began looking for creative ways like renting with option to buy. The first few years of the Reagan administration weren't much better but then things turned around and we entered an extended period of prosperity, interupted briefly by the stock market crash of 1988 from which we quickly rebounded. Then we had another crash in 2000 and this ushered in an extended economic downturn that lasted for most of the decade. Things gradually started to improve and by 2019, the economy was roaring again. Real wages were rising again for the first time in decades. Then the pandemic hit and we are still trying to recover from that. Having been through these cycles I've come to realize all we can do is enjoy the good times when they are here and ride out the bad times as best we can. Neither lasts forever. The model railroad hobby is not immune to economic forces but it has survived these boom-and-bust cycles and there is no reason to think it won't continue to do so.
Well said John
And closing on such a positive agreeable note