This is the original non-DCC version. As I mentioned in another thread, my layout sits idle for most of the warm weather months (golf season) and each year I have to start out with a major track cleaning task and usually find a few other bugs that crop up, largely due to the layout becoming a mouse playground in my absence. I've come across a problem with the gear drive on the TT and I've traced the problem to a frozen gear wheel, the one the rides on the cogs around the ring. I've been able to turn the wheel with the tip of a small screwdriver but it takes a good deal of effort and it doesn't surprise me that the small motor on the TT would be unable to get it to budge. I'm guessing that crud has built up between the wheel and housing preventing that wheel from turning easily but it is difficult to tell for sure because the housing has plastic parts that are glued together and it seems to me I'd risk breaking them if I try to disassemble it.
I've thought of the old stand by WD-40 but I fear that might just cause more crud to collect. I'm wondering if others have had this problem and what they did to free up the wheel. If WD-40 is not the solution, what sort of cleaning products might free up this wheel without taking the housing apart. If it is necessary to disassemble it, what advice would others have for how to do it.
If you dont mind removing the paint along with the crud Id recommend isopropyl Alcohol 91%. I use it to clean track and grease/dirt off of loco wheels/gearboxes. Will damage paint though BUT it wont melt plastic.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
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Might also try a spray electronic contact cleaner. Plastic safe and should evaporate without leaving a residue that could pick up crud.
Mike
Trainman440 If you dont mind removing the paint along with the crud Id recommend isopropyl Alcohol 91%. I use it to clean track and grease/dirt off of loco wheels/gearboxes. Will damage paint though BUT it wont melt plastic. Charles
This sounds like it's worth trying. I don't think the housing is painted. It appears to be molded gray plastic. Since this gear is at the end of the TT bridge and below the surface, even if it would get discolored, it wouldn't be visible.
The combination of a few drops of alcohol plus taking an old blade from an Exacto knife to clean out the space between the housing and the gear wheel has freed up the mechanism so the motor can now turn it. At first it was rather sluggish but soon began turning more freely although I noticed in one direction it wasn't turning quite as freely as the other. Also, I had not yet screwed the motor housing back into place and was holding it down with my thumb as I was testing it and when it turn in the direction that was a little stubborn, I noticed some vibration and felt the housing trying to pop out of place. I also put a couple drops of Labelle oil on the axle of the gear wheel and that helped some too. I'd like to get it turning freely in both directions before I reassemble the housing and put the bridge back in place. Hopefully just a little cleaning and maybe a few drops of oil in the internal gears as well.
I accually had a gear with damage I had to reshape with a file, got mine 2nd hand and the amount of crud I had to remove was alot. Seems the gear plastic is a bit softer than it should be. Works fine now so maybe it got cleaned with the wrong stuff or someone was heavy handed in picking out the crud, I found a backup bridge on e-bay just in case.
rrebell I accually had a gear with damage I had to reshape with a file, got mine 2nd hand and the amount of crud I had to remove was alot. Seems the gear plastic is a bit softer than it should be. Works fine now so maybe it got cleaned with the wrong stuff or someone was heavy handed in picking out the crud, I found a backup bridge on e-bay just in case.
I might have to look for a back up bridge. In troubleshooting the problem, I disassembled the motor housing which involved removing 3 screws that went into plastic. It appears I might have stripped the plastic in doing so because the screws go in but they don't hold tight. What I discovered doing my testing holding down the motor housing while I worked the motor in both directions is that it took considerable force to hold the housing down. Depending on the direction the gears are turning, one side or the other of the housing wants to raise up. If it comes up even fractionally, the gears won't function properly.
I'm considering several options, all with some risks. One is to redrill the pilot holes and use slightly larger screws to hold the housing down tightly. Another would be to use a thread lock so the existing screws have more bite. The last option would be to use a solvent adhesive to glue the sides of the housing to the inside of the turntable bridge. The last two options would be problematic if I ever have to get inside the motor housing again. I might not be able to get back in if I seal it too tightly.
Just insert some thin strip plastic in the hole the thinnest they make but as wide as the hole.
rrebell Just insert some thin strip plastic in the hole the thinnest they make but as wide as the hole.
I opted to glue the motor housing in place. I was lucky and found a thin piece of scrap styrene about 1 1/2" long and about 1/2" wide which was perfect for what I wanted to do. After applying tube glue to both sides of it, I wedged it between the motor housing and the inside of the bridge. This created a tight fit on both sides of the housing. The other side didn't need a shim so I just brush some liquid cement to that side of the housing and the inside of the bridge. I then clamped the housing down tightly. With the clamp in place, I tested the motor and it was able to turn the gears freely in both directions. I then set it down and let the solvents cure over night. I think this will make a strong enough bond once the clamp is removed to allow the TT to operate but only time will tell. I'm going to give it a test this morning.
UPDATE: The glue failed to hold the housing in place like I thought it would. The problem is that when the motor is turned on and the internal gears start to turn, it pushes one side of the housing up (this with the bridge turned upside down). It only raises up about 1/16" but that is enough to cause the internal gears to disengage. If I hold the the motor housing down with my thumb, or use a clamp, the TT operates just fine but obviously neither of those could be done with the bridge in place. It takes considerable force from my thumb to keep the housing from riding up so I need something that will hold the housing down despite the upward force caused by the turning of the internal gears.
I have one more idea and that is to redrill the screw holes, put in slightly larger screws to hopefull hold the housing tightly in place. I'm afraid that anything I do at this point will be a temporary fix because of how much pressure there is to push the housing out of place when the TT motor is turned on.
If rescrewing the housing to the bridge fails to solve the problem, it might be my only option would be to remove the motor and turn the bridge manually with some sort of crank system. If anybody has any other ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
Are you referring to the 2850 model? 130' with DCC version? I have one in the box. Tried for two years to get it to index automatically consistently....not happening. Location on layout did not lend itself to line up by eyesight. I just want to get rid of it....let me know if you have any use for it
EMDSD40 Are you referring to the 2850 model? 130' with DCC version? I have one in the box. Tried for two years to get it to index automatically consistently....not happening. Location on layout did not lend itself to line up by eyesight. I just want to get rid of it....let me know if you have any use for it
Mine is the earliest non-DCC version. I remember I had it on pre-order for about two years after Walthers announced it was Coming Soon. I'm going to try a few other fixes to see if I can get it operational but I might consider your offer. My thinking had been if I couldn't figure out a fix, buying a new one might be my last resort. I'm reluctant to do so because I don't know if I could just drop in the DCC bridge into the existing pit. There is a sensor on the wall of the pit and I don't know if it is compatible with the DCC version. I'm reluctant to replace the entire TT because the track leads hang over the lip and I would have to pull up the tracks on one side and break the adhesive on the lead tracks on the other side in order to slide the new TT pit into the existing hole.
It will probably take me about a week to try the fixes I have in mind. If none of them work out, I'll consider your offer. Indexing is not important to me. I had tried it with my version of the TT and it just wasn't reliable so I learned to do without it. .
In looking at possible solutions to my problem, it has occurred to me I might not have used the correct cement to secure the motor housing. On different parts of the housing, I used either Testor's tube glue or Plastruct Plastic Weld. They failed to secure the plastic housing to the underside of the bridge.
On closer inspection, it appears to me the housing did not react to the adhesives as I am use to seeing leading me to believe it might not be styrene but some other type of plastic for which the adhesives I used might not be correct. The adhesive has flaked of the surfaces and I don't recall seeing that happen when using these to assemble plastic structures made of styrene.
I'm wondering if the components are made of ABS plastic. If that is true, what is the best adhesive? I saw a YouTube video showing how to join ABS pipe and he used a black adhesive. I googled for ABS adhesive and the first hit I got was Aleene's Multi Surface adhesive. Would this be the best choice if the components are ABS. Another option I saw was JB Plastic Weld which it says is good for ABS, PVC, and CPVC. I need something that would give a strong hold.
There is one on e-bay right now with a different proublem, controler died, might go cheap.
rrebell There is one on e-bay right now with a different proublem, controler died, might go cheap.
Thanks for the heads up.
My problems began when my controller died. Since this is the non-DCC version, that has been out of production for at least 10 years, I didn't think I could get a replacement. Then I came up with the idea of powering the motor directly from a DC power pack. That's when the fun began. I gutted the existing electronics out of the bridge and ran wires up through the center post of the bridge for track and motor power. I had to disassemble the housing so I could solder the wires to the motor's terminals. I then reassembled it and at first it worked quite well but then the bridge started to grind when it rotated and then quit all together. I removed the bridge and noticed the housing had popped out of place. I tightened the screws holding it to the underside of the bridge and then applied some epoxy for added strength. It was working when I shutdown for the summer as I think I mentioned in the OP that I do each year. When I tried to start up operations again, that's when I noticed the problem I described in the OP. After cleaning all the gear assemblies and lubricating the gear axles, I got the bridge operating again but soon the housing popped loose again. I've tried several types of adhesives to help keep the housing in place but they just wont hold it down. The housing is held in place with 3 screws. I discovered a couple days ago that one of the screw heads had broken off allowing the housing to pop out of place. That housing must be held very tightly in place or the gears inside it will begin to slip and and the TT won't rotate. With only two screws to hold the housing in place, there was no way any adhesive was going to hold for very long and . If I hold it down with my thumb or a C-clamp, I can get the outside gears to turn but obviously that isn't practical when the bridge is in place. Yesterday I got an idea to drill a couple pilot holes through the side of the bridge and into the housing to hold it in place with a couple small screws. After a couple tries, I finally got the gears working without having a clamp or my thumb in place.
I hesitate to say the problem is fixed. I've thought that before and I don't want to anger the MR gods so I'll just say it is working for NOW. If this fix fails to hold, I'm out of ideas. EMDSD40 offered to sell his and I could also check that ebay item if it is still available. Neither option will be necessary if this latest fix can hold together.
UPDATE: I checked out the one on ebay. I might be interested in it for spare parts even if my fix holds. Right now its $85 with shipping. If it doesn't get bid up much from there, I might consider it. I wouldn't want to go much higher. Auction ends Sunday.
This is one of those bid what you want max and then wait and see, thats how I got my stuff (a 90'), only paid $50 plus shipping.
I don't shop that much on ebay but I don't like to tip my hand until near the end of the auction. Sometimes I bid early but most of the time I wait until the last five minutes of the auction to jump into the fray. That gives me enough time to get an idea of how high I need to go and decide how bad I want an item. As it stands, I'm not even sure I'd want to pay for it at its minimum bid price.
Sounds like this guy had the same problem I did. His controller went dead and because he had the original non-DCC version, a replacement wasn't available. I was ready to give up on mine too until I got the idea to power the bridge motor directly. It's not quite as good as when I had the controller. For one, since the wires are fed through the bridge post, I can't keep turning the bridge in the same direction for very long or the wires will get twisted. If the motorman's house is on the nearside of the TT, I rotate clockwise and if it is at the opposite end I rotate counterclockwise. The other problem is polarity is not automatically reversed. I have a DPDT switch that I have to set to match polarity of the tracks the loco is coming or going from. Again I use the motorman's house to guide me. If it goes beyond a certain point I know I have to set the switch accordingly.
Someday, I might spring for the new DCC version. My TT and roundhouse has a design flaw. I put the roundhouse between the edge of the benchwork and the TT. I have to reach over the roundhouse if I have an issue with the TT. I also don't get to see the locos parked in the roundhouse. Instead I use Micro Mark's loco cards and put the card for each loco in the appropriate slot to tell me which loco is in which stall. Reversing the position of the TT and roundhouse will require major surgery to the bench work and reallignment of the lead tracks. If and when I ever get around to repositioning everything, I think I'll spring for a new TT but until then, I'm going to try to make do with the one I have.
I did not say anything about selling it. I said I want to get rid of it. You get my drift. What part of the world are you in? Does private message function work here? If you think you may have a need when all options exhausted find a way we can speak without violating the rules here
EMDSD40 I did not say anything about selling it. I said I want to get rid of it. You get my drift. What part of the world are you in? Does private message function work here? If you think you may have a need when all options exhausted find a way we can speak without violating the rules here
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I live about an hour northeast of Columbus, OH if that helps.
I've never gotten in the habit of checking my private messages so if you sent one, I haven't seen it. I'll check to see if I've received one.
Emdsd40 here.....wondering how you made out with turntable issues. Tried to message you directly, but that attempt failed
EMDSD40 Emdsd40 here.....wondering how you made out with turntable issues. Tried to message you directly, but that attempt failed
Sorry, I didn't see this when you posted it. I came back to this thread because the problem has reoccurred and that's when I saw your post. After I thought I had the TT working well, I went about ten days without using it and now find that it is frozen up again.
Just to catch everyone up on this without having to go through the entire thread, I had to gut the electronics on the TT when the original control box died. This is the original one without DCC so a replacement is not available for it. Instead I wired the motor to a Bachmann DC power pack and used that to turn the TT. That was working well for a while but now it has frozen up again. The solution before was to clean the gears with alcohol and also lube the gear axle.
The problem is a mechanical one, not an electrical one. Since electricity is being delivered to the motor, even in an unconventional manner, it seems to me the mechanical issue is one that could crop up even with the newer DCC version of the TT unless they redesigned the mechanics as well.
I revived this thread because I wanted to find out if this is a normal problem with the newer TT. Does the combination of crud build up and a period of inactivity cause these TTs to freeze up? I've considered biting the bullet and replacing the TT with the latest version of it but if it is still using the same mechanical system, what reason is there to believe the same problem wouldn't keep occurring.
I have become so frustrated trying to keep this TT operating that I am considering ripping out the mechanical system and creating some kind of hand cranked system to rotate the TT, but that will be a last resort.
You need to clean the pit before use as dust will grt into the gears and stick to the oil. It is easy to clean this out but if a peice of ballast gets up there it could jam. Also cheak all the gears, when I bought mine it had a tooth on one that had a bit of damage but not so much I couldn't fix it with a file which is why I jumped on a replacement bridge because even though the fix made it work perfectly it did have a very slight mismovement at times (I always try for perfection, don't achive but I try).
I routinely vacuum the pit area. I can't say I do it before every session, but I know I have done it twice since I got the TT operational. I've noticed that the debris that collects tends to drift to the center of the pit so it is unlikely it would be picking that up in the gears. If and when I can get the gears to budge, I double and triple check the pit ring to make sure nothing has gathered there. This is getting to be a real PITA.
I have the original non-DCC 130' turntable. Try as I might to keep the area around the turntable as clean as possible, and even though my ballast is glued down, I often need to partially disassemble the bridge to remove a piece of stray ballast from the gear teeth. That always takes time and effort, and it involves using a small hobby screwdriver to loosen and/or remove a screw or two to free up the gears.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I have the original non-DCC 130' turntable. Try as I might to keep the area around the turntable as clean as possible, and even though my ballast is glued down, I often need to partially disassemble the bridge to remove a piece of stray ballast from the gear teeth. That always takes time and effort, and it involves using a small hobby screwdriver to loosen and/or remove a screw or two to free up the gears. Rich
That's what I am finding out. I've used a combination of alcohol to clean the gears, Labelle oil to lubricate the axle, and the small screwdriver to apply the brute force necessary to get the gears to turn again. What's irritating is it was working just fine when I shut down about ten days ago to do some much needed track and turnout maintenance. I'm replacing some problem Atlas undermounts with Tortoises. I got tired of doing that and I wanted to just play with trains but I've got much of my steam roster marooned in the roundhouse. It seems there is always something going wrong in this hobby.
To fix the screw holes: mix a couple of pieces of sprue with compatible solvent and pour/butter it into the stripped holes. A little corn oil on the screw threads will prevent sticking.
For this sort of gearing I would use LaBelle grease on the post and contact faces of the gears, but little if any lubricant on the teeth.
Overmod To fix the screw holes: mix a couple of pieces of sprue with compatible solvent and pour/butter it into the stripped holes. A little corn oil on the screw threads will prevent sticking. For this sort of gearing I would use LaBelle grease on the post and contact faces of the gears, but little if any lubricant on the teeth.
The problem with the screw holes has been resolved. The problem now is the the recurring one of the external gear assembly on the bridge which rides around the teeth of the pit ring. That has locked up, probably due to crud build up which keeps occurring despite my efforts to keep the pit clear of such crud. If there is a way to keep those clean I'd love to hear it because I can't seem to make it happen. It is a constant battle to keep this TT operational and if the newer DCC model uses the same mechanics, I'm not sure I wouldn't have the same problem if I replaced the TT. Initially, I had a two fold problem, one electrical and one mechanical. I've resolved the electrical problem. I'm getting juice to the TT motor. The problem is the frozen gear assembly at the end of the bridge.
John-NYBW ... I've noticed that the debris that collects tends to drift to the center of the pit so it is unlikely it would be picking that up in the gears. If and when I can get the gears to budge, I double and triple check the pit ring to make sure nothing has gathered there. This is getting to be a real PITA.
... I've noticed that the debris that collects tends to drift to the center of the pit so it is unlikely it would be picking that up in the gears. If and when I can get the gears to budge, I double and triple check the pit ring to make sure nothing has gathered there. This is getting to be a real PITA.
This won't be helpful, and I can't recall if I have already offered this earlier in the thread, but I cleaned my 'built-up' indexed version only once. Per the instructions, I vacuumed it frequently, pretty much immediately prior to using it, which was maybe once a week or so. Even so, I went into the bridge end works after maybe 20 months and was surprised to find all sorts of crud in that housing. Cleaning it to run well, but vacuuming almost weekly makes the difference. I know, it's a pain.
John-NYBW The problem now is the the recurring one of the external gear assembly on the bridge which rides around the teeth of the pit ring. That has locked up, probably due to crud build up which keeps occurring despite my efforts to keep the pit clear of such crud.
The problem now is the the recurring one of the external gear assembly on the bridge which rides around the teeth of the pit ring. That has locked up, probably due to crud build up which keeps occurring despite my efforts to keep the pit clear of such crud.
The problem area, at least for me, is the gear track around the perimeter of the pit. So, before any operating session that includes the use of the turntable, I remove the bridge and vacuum around the perimeter of the pit.
Still having issues....that turntable is still sitting here. If you can use it then arrangements can be made to get it to you. I have no intention of using it. Let me know.....Emdsd40