By now you all know that I am addicted to small switcher engines. Therefore it will come as no surprise that I bought a BLI Plymouth W-Series 35 ton yellow unlettered switcher with weathering that is offered exclusively by Factory Direct Hobbies (factorydirecthobbies.com).
Here it is:
You can immediately see that the 'weathering' is just a bunch of brush strokes with a gray wash and some rusty red speckles. It is a total joke! I'll have to see if I can remove the brush strokes from the cab and then get out some decals and my air brush.
The DCC locomotive runs okay and it is very quiet, but the decoder needs some adjustments. With the decoder set on '0' momentum it stops immediately which is to be expected. However, when I applied momentum at anything more than '1' it ran on for totally unrealistic distances. With the momentum set at '1' it runs for 6" - 8" which is reasonable.
Power pick up is inconsistent. I cleaned my test track thoroughly and I cleaned the wheels with alcohol but the engine still hesitated regularly. It does have traction tires installed on the middle axle. I'm going to see if it has power pick up on all six wheels. If so I may remove the traction tires.
Another disappointing aspect is that the lights are very dim. Unless you are staring straight at them they are almost impossible to see. I think that is inexcusable with todays bright LEDs. I suspect that the LEDs are mounted inboard with light tubes feeding the actual lamps. I'm going to open it up to see how the lighting is done, and if they are using light tubes I will change the setup to having LEDs mounted directly inside the lamps.
Despite my negative comments, overall it is a nice little engine. With a little effort it can be made much nicer.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
DCC power, short wheelbase, and traction tires seems to invite inherent conflicts that limit the ability of this switcher to even run correctly.
I had a LL DCC/Sund SW8 that had traction tires on the back power truck, making the loco stall constantly. Removed the traction and the small slots that held the rubber in place were still problematic. Finally replaced the geared wheelset with a wheelset from a DC SW9.
Find anywhere to add lead birdshot for weight.
- Douglas
DoughlessDCC power, short wheelbase, and traction tires seems to invite inherent conflicts that limit the ability of this switcher to even run correctly.
Hi Doughless,
I have to disagree with your suggestion that this locomotive should have problems running properly. This locomotive has three axles. I have several two axle critters that run just fine, granted that most of them have keep alives. I agree that more weight might improve the wheel contact with the rails but I think that that solution would be covering up the basic problems. The locomotive should not be stalling on straight track. I'm going to work on it a bit to see if I can improve its performance.
Stay tuned.
hon30critter Doughless DCC power, short wheelbase, and traction tires seems to invite inherent conflicts that limit the ability of this switcher to even run correctly. Hi Doughless, I have to disagree with your suggestion that this locomotive should have problems running properly. This locomotive has three axles. I have several two axle critters that run just fine, granted that most of them have keep alives. I agree that more weight might improve the wheel contact with the rails but I think that that solution would be covering up the basic problems. The locomotive should not be stalling on straight track. I'm going to work on it a bit to see if I can improve its performance. Stay tuned. Cheers!! Dave
Doughless DCC power, short wheelbase, and traction tires seems to invite inherent conflicts that limit the ability of this switcher to even run correctly.
I guess I was being cryptic. I should have said that cutting a three axle short switcher down to two (for power pickup) because of traction tires on the third set, while adding DCC which needs good power pickup, is a design problem.
More weight would help offset the loss of the traction tires, if you replaced them with power wheels.
Three powered axles, DC, and more weight; and this switcher would probably never stall and would pull reasonably well.
Or if it just came with a keep alive installed from the factory, at minimal expense to offset the conflicting design issues; that would be a reputable thing to do, IMO.
hon30critter You can immediately see that the 'weathering' is just a bunch of brush strokes with a gray wash and some rusty red speckles. It is a total joke!
You can immediately see that the 'weathering' is just a bunch of brush strokes with a gray wash and some rusty red speckles. It is a total joke!
That's why I don't weather my stuff. It would likely look just like that.
Rich
Alton Junction
hon30critterI'm going to see if it has power pick up on all six wheels. If so I may remove the traction tires.
Are wheels with traction tires the same diameter (without the tires) as other wheels, in this case or in other locos that use traction tires?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
i suggest you oil and lube the engine as necessary and run it in on a test loop for say two hours in both directions. Then critique the engines running qualities.
Lastspikemike Only the front and rear axles are needed for reliable power pickup. With the keepalive on board even one axle will be enough. I'd be interested to know how this BLI product stacks up against the similar Walthers ML8 DCC with powerful little keepalive on board. Mine runs flawlessly, no sound though. Only two axles and quite heavy for its size being cast metal. I love mine. It is undeniably cute. BLI occasionally delivers up a complete failure. Wonder if this is one of those times?
Only the front and rear axles are needed for reliable power pickup. With the keepalive on board even one axle will be enough.
I'd be interested to know how this BLI product stacks up against the similar Walthers ML8 DCC with powerful little keepalive on board. Mine runs flawlessly, no sound though. Only two axles and quite heavy for its size being cast metal. I love mine. It is undeniably cute.
BLI occasionally delivers up a complete failure. Wonder if this is one of those times?
A Walthers MAINLINE product right?, not even an upscale PROTO?
Sounds like they designed it properly. Metal body, keep alive; both overcoming inherent flaws of a small short wheebased switcher, where they also install phinicky DCC. Kudos to Walthers.
richhotrainThat's why I don't weather my stuff. It would likely look just like that.
That is why I don't share pictures of my weathering failures. All my freight cars have a good side and a bad side. You guys never see the bad side.
My favorite critter was the General Motors model 40, but that is only because I worked on one in real life.
DoughlessSounds like they designed it properly. Metal body, keep alive; both overcoming inherent flaws of a small short wheebased switcher, where they also install phinicky DCC. Kudos to Walthers.
I did a demo-run on one of those Walthers locomotives at the National Train Show in Orlando. It was amazing. They had plastic rail sections on the demo track, and it worked perfectly.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BLI are know for design failures in small engines.
There are three axles in a rigid frame.
At any moment in time, there are a minimum of three wheels touching the rails, one on one side and two on the other. There CAN be more, but only by good luck.
Think tripod, on an uneven surface. An added fourth leg (wheel) might touch the ground. It might not. Or, think of the times you've sat on a four legged chair, and rocked it back and forth a little.
I would think it not unlikely that the wheel(s) with the traction tire might be, on occasion, the single wheel on one side holding up the engine.
Thus I would not be surprised at stalling.
The smoother, cleaner, flatter your track, the better the odds of having a fourth, or more, wheel also touching the track well enough to conduct electricity.
Anyway, I'm a big believer in "keep alives", and that would be my first thought. The trick is finding room inside.
Ed
7j43kThink tripod, on an uneven surface. An added fourth leg (wheel) might touch the ground. It might not. Or, think of the times you've sat on a four legged chair, and rocked it back and forth a little.
Great explanation on why all-wheel pickup is necesarry on three axle trucks. This is also why three axle trucks seem to be more prone to derailment.
I just had to go on the Factory Direct Website to see how this is presented. Well, I was shocked to see that they advertise the model as weathered, but don't show the result on screen. The site shows the unweathered version, and states that "This one will be weathered and yellow". What a mess... And I thought the weathered Rivarossi Big Boys were bad!
About installing keep-alive, there was this thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/260416.aspx
Simon
that weathering is a literal joke...looks like a 5 year old did it.
Nice loco though!
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
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Trainman440that weathering is a literal joke...looks like a 5 year old did it.
Hi Trainman440,
I contacted Factory Direct Hobbies to express my disappointment in the weathering job. They apparently agree because they said they have discontinued the weathered option.
7j43kThere are three axles in a rigid frame. At any moment in time, there are a minimum of three wheels touching the rails, one on one side and two on the other. There CAN be more, but only by good luck. Think tripod, on an uneven surface. An added fourth leg (wheel) might touch the ground. It might not. Or, think of the times you've sat on a four legged chair, and rocked it back and forth a little. I would think it not unlikely that the wheel(s) with the traction tire might be, on occasion, the single wheel on one side holding up the engine. Thus I would not be surprised at stalling.
Hi Ed,
Your explanation certainly makes sense. It has given me some ideas. One obvious change would be to remove the traction tires. I'll give that a try.
Thanks,
Hi Bear,
You make a good point about the locomotive needing to be run in, but I'm not sure that is the problem. I ran it for about 30 minutes and it didn't stall at speed step 12 and above. At lower speeds, most of the time it started up again on its own without having to be nudged. Based on Ed's explanation, I'm more inclined to suspect the traction tires. The critter won't be pulling more than one or two boxcars so the need for traction tires is questionable.
Gidday Dave, while I’d rather not argue with Ed, his theory is relevant particularly for poorly laid track, which I suspect is not the case, in your instance. However, if removing the traction tyres are the easy fix, well…
I tested the switcher on a 3' piece of flex track which was sitting on my workbench. The workbench is smooth so I don't believe that there were any irregularities in the track.
As far as removing the traction tires goes, there will still be a groove in the middle axle wheels which may affect power pickup, assuming that the middle axle does pick up power. I'll have to take the wee beastie apart to determine that.
Stay tuned. Thanks for your input as always.
7j43k The smoother, cleaner, flatter your track, the better the odds of having a fourth, or more, wheel also touching the track well enough to conduct electricity.
With regard to perfect trackwork, I did say the above, earlier. But note that I used the word "odds", not "guarantee".
However.
To get that fourth wheel to actually ALSO pick up (beyond the "tripod" ones), it also has to touch the track.
So you need trackwork HOW perfect to work? And the loco? HOW perfectly aligned must its wheels be to take advantage of that perfect trackwork? +/- a thousandths of an inch? Two? How big a gap before the electricity stops flowing?
Most of us are now familiar with the Walthers mini-switcher, and that it has a "keep alive". And that the BLI one does not.
A test: how far does each go, unassisted and at a very slow speed, on a piece of flex track?
Is it irritating to have a loco stall?
It would be ideal if Dave could compare his with another example
Hi again Bear,
To be honest I had forgotten about the Walthers switcher when I ordered the BLI unit. I am tempted to get my hands on one of the Walthers switchers to see how well they work.
what I find hard to believe is that a manufacturer who has taken the trouble to make a small locomotive with a die cast body, and traction tyres for the best possible “pulling power”, then slips up by not allowing enough “play” in the drive chain to allow the other four wheels to maintain electrical contact with the rails.
I had the same thought. I wonder if I could increase the vertical axle play by judiciously filing a bit off of the upper surface of the axle bearings. When I get it apart I will have a look at that possibility.
I need your help. I have spent the better part of an hour trying to find a listing for the Walthers mini switcher and I have drawn a blank. Can anyone find the Walthers listing? It would be much appreciated.
hon30critterCan anyone find the Walthers listing?
This one?
https://www.walthers.com/plymouth-ml-8-dcc-only-red
An old thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/284898/3289051.aspx
Regards, Ed
That would be the one! Thank you so much for your help!
Unfortunately it is listed as 'discontinued'. I guess that either I will have to watch eBay or wait until they produce it again.
Edit: There is one listed on eBay currently. They want $225.00 + $51.00 shipping. I'll pass.
Some comments on the Walthers and the BLI:
I've got one of each.
I ran each through a 2 foot long #10 crossover, out and back, at their slowest speed step (5-6). Didn't clean the track.
The Walthers never stopped.
The BLI did, maybe 6 times in each direction. Coming back, where the headlight was lit, sometimes it would stall, but the headlight would stay on. Turn up the power, and it moved. But not every time. Very curious. All in all, it ran about as I would expect for a non-keep alive loco of its type. Maybe a bit better.
The Walthers weighs 3 5/8 oz, with no traction tire. The cab is filled up with the keep alive caps, plus stuff. It really doesn't show that much, and doesn't bother me. Has a headlight.
The BLI weighs 4 3/4 oz, with a traction tire on each center wheel. The cab is empty, except for the engineer. It looks like a couple of caps could be fit in the cab, but below window level--you wouldn't see them. Has a headlight. Has non-working class lights, too--whatever for?
The BLI, from end beam to end beam, is about a 1/4" longer than the Walthers. The BLI has ENORMOUS footboards.
They are roughly equivalent, though the BLI is going to have to have more TE.
The biggy for me is the lack of a keep alive in the BLI. If/when I actually operate it, it will HAVE to have keep alive.
It would be fun to have sound in either. Or both.
All in all, a couple of nice little critters, and I don't regret their purchase.
I agree with 7j43k. I have both engines and I definitely like the operation of the ML-8 better. There are still a couple of them out there that can be had.
Sigh, guess I'll share my little secret. Found a little stash of the walthers ones on Trainworld. They have like 10 of the walthers plymouths left in various schemes for $75 each or $99 for the dcc ones.
I only ask of you to not hoard them all then sell them for ridiculous prices on ebay. Thanks.
Charles