LastspikemikeAthearn diesels have slip on (and slip off) shells. There are no clips or securing devices whatsoever.
LastspikemikeLooking at my Athearn Trainmaster Kit (BB edition) there are four cast in pins, two per side, on the frame which engage in matching holes in the shell. The BB F7 has two wedge shaped tabs that engage in slots in the shell.
So in fact, they are not slip-on and slip-off?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The Athearn Blue Box GP38-2, 40-2, 50 and 60 have 4 snap lock tabs that go into the fuel tank casting on each side of the motor area. So you have to squeeze the shell while lifting upwards. Not the best idea once a shell is superdetailed but at the time it worked ok. The move toward just the coupler boxes holding the shell on came once we started seeing the superdetailed units right out of the box that were much more fragile compared to the older BB units. I will take the BB units any day, they run forever, and fine tuning the drive is part of the fun. The early Kato driven Steward F's and Alco diesels are the best entry level diesels on the second hand market, or the EMD GP7/9 with the diecast chassis and Kato drive. We used lash ups of those for years at the local club with no issues. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Yes you did and some still do.
I should point out that Kato's gears actually do crack as well as many other plastic gears, but there is a key difference with the Kato gears: The way they are made I believe there is a shoulder on the Kato gear. They crack at the shoulder as the plastic dries with age--NOT all of them, but some of them. The gear teeth remain intact. The Kato engines will continue to run just fine with cracked gears, while the Proto 2000 units and some other manufacturer's units will get bad enough that they will not run at all.
In the case of older Kato units with cracked gears, they will get a little bit noisier than the un-cracked gear units--but they will continue to run without issues, and will continue to do their job pulling trains. I had one secondhand Kato F unit that I think had cracked gears based upon slightly increased noise, and it continued running with the other ones that were much quieter without any issues.
PRR8259The Kato engines will continue to run just fine with cracked gears,
I have been told that is a Kato F unit gets cracked gears, it is prone to the wheels coming out of gauge and derailing.
It soulds like your noisy unit did not do that.
I have not experienced a cracked gear on a Kato unit (and only one Proto-2000) unit, so I do not have much experience with this problem.
davefr I'm a newbie and started out with Stewart/Kato FT's. I decided to try some Athearn F7's (both BB and Genesis). All 6 of my Athearns with flywheel drive run noisy. (even after lubrication, cleaning, inspection, etc) Some are even NOS. Is this just the way it is? What makes Athearns noisy and Kato's so quiet/smooth. Is it stricly the motor they use. Just curious. TIA.
I'm a newbie and started out with Stewart/Kato FT's. I decided to try some Athearn F7's (both BB and Genesis). All 6 of my Athearns with flywheel drive run noisy. (even after lubrication, cleaning, inspection, etc) Some are even NOS.
Is this just the way it is? What makes Athearns noisy and Kato's so quiet/smooth. Is it stricly the motor they use.
Just curious. TIA.
The difference in noise between Athearn Blue Box locos and Kato locos comes from the motors.
Athearn's motor has an armature that has slots that catch the brushes and creates the famous growl. Kato does not.
Life Like used a "cloned" BB motor design but had a solid armature with no slots, and they were as quiet as a KATO.
Athearn RTR has updated the motor to have a solid armature so they are now as quiet as all others.
The drivetrain of the BB was not really the source of the growl in the blue box, but some do have noisy drivetrains that can be quieted with several methods.
- Douglas
davefr If these FP-7's have Roco drives how will they perform?
Dave,
I have a Atlas FP7 that has a Roco drive, and it runs great. I also have an Atlas/Roco S Model switcher that runs as good as my Kato NW2.
My Atlas/Roco FP7 runs so well that I hope I can adapt the mechanism to work under the Overland FP7 that I have. The body is amazing, but its mechanism leaves a bit to be desired.
For my experience with some of these, it seems like a lot of the noise comes down to tuning. For most of my Athearn BB drives, most of the humming and growling noise has been more related to off-balance flywheels and vibration from sloppy universals. Once I balance the flywheels and tighten things up a bit to reduce all vibration, many of them can actually run very quietly. My Genesis F3A is just about silent, and my 4,500HP Turbine is one of the quietest engines I own!
There are some that can never be quiet simply by their design. My Atlas/Roco FP7 is excellent, but my SD24 with exactly the same gears but a different truck design really growls. My Athearn PA-1 is a quiet runner, but my Athearn DD40 with many of the same gears is a noisy one. I think it comes down to some having tighter gear mesh by design, and sloppier gear mesh in others causes the gears to not roll together quite as smoothly, resulting in a low growl as they run.
_________________________________________________________________
rrebell n012944 rrebell Somrtimes it just seems to be luck of the draw, got a Stewart that is noisey and one that is not, both are basicaly the same, still haven't found out why. Before the F3's came out, using the Kato drive, many Stewart units used Athearn drives. Did not know that, how do you tell, never owned an Athearn from that era.
n012944 rrebell Somrtimes it just seems to be luck of the draw, got a Stewart that is noisey and one that is not, both are basicaly the same, still haven't found out why. Before the F3's came out, using the Kato drive, many Stewart units used Athearn drives.
rrebell Somrtimes it just seems to be luck of the draw, got a Stewart that is noisey and one that is not, both are basicaly the same, still haven't found out why.
Somrtimes it just seems to be luck of the draw, got a Stewart that is noisey and one that is not, both are basicaly the same, still haven't found out why.
Before the F3's came out, using the Kato drive, many Stewart units used Athearn drives.
Did not know that, how do you tell, never owned an Athearn from that era.
Look for the white solid box with red stripes.
An "expensive model collector"
I have a pair of old BB locomotives that I quieted down nicely. It turns out the noise was caused by tiny bits of black plastic flash in the gear towers. They would get stuck in the gears and go round and round making a lotta noise. Being black they were just about invisible against the black plastic gear tower. Fix was to take the gear towers, both of 'em, all the way apart and first clean all the old gear grease out with solvent. Then I took a white pipe cleaner and carefully wiped each and every tooth of every gear. When I was done I could see a couple tiny black flecks of flash on the pipecleaner. Relub lightly with white molly grease, reassemble and the noise was gone, or at least much reduced.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
davefrThe flywheel models do look well built and once you add a glazing detail kit to close the holes the detail is acceptable.
If you bought an Athearn F-unit without window glazing it may be VERY old. Walthers "dress-up" kit for F units includes the window glazing because I believe way back Athearn / Globe F-7s didn't have the glazing. I started in HO in 1987 and one of my earliest purchases was a BB F7 A-B set that came with all the glazing with the engines. In my experience, newer BB engines run better than the 'way back' ones.
BTW my Stewart AS-16 from 30 years back had Athearn drive, I eventually replaced it with the updated Stewart chassis / motor etc. when that came available. My Stewart FTs from about 20 years ago have always run great - as has my Athearn Genesis F-unit....I wonder if the OP's Ebay purchase may have been a Genesis body on a BB chassis?
wjstix Walthers "dress-up" kit for F units includes the window glazing because I believe way back Athearn / Globe F-7s didn't have the glazing.
The glazing in the Walthers dress up kit also fits closer-to-flush than the Athearn factory glazing on Blue Box F units.
It still does not look all that great, but better.
wjstixBTW my Stewart AS-16 from 30 years back had Athearn drive, I eventually replaced it with the updated Stewart chassis / motor etc. when that came available.
I was unaware an update kit was ever made.
I gave up on my Stewart AS-616 a long time ago. I gave the body away to another forum member.
LastspikemikeI have a pair of Athearn F7A with Roco drives. Made entirely by Roco in fact as I understand things. "Made in Austria" is cast into the bottom somewhere. Nifty feature is an oiling hole in the axle retaining plates under the trucks. These are fine runners and look good.
I've never seen an Athearn with a Roco drive did someone shitch the drives on them I don't have an Atlas F7A (my mistake Atlas never made an F7 only a FP7 or FP9) to compare to Athearn just curious how well the Roco fit in the Athearn shells
Lastspikemike I have a pair of Athearn F7A with Roco drives. Made entirely by Roco in fact as I understand things. "Made in Austria" is cast into the bottom somewhere. Nifty feature is an oiling hole in the axle retaining plates under the trucks. These are fine runners and look good. My new BB F7A undecorated I bought in about 1974 had no windows. Steel flywheels. Growls nicely. Who needs DCC sound with that mechanical growl?
I have a pair of Athearn F7A with Roco drives. Made entirely by Roco in fact as I understand things. "Made in Austria" is cast into the bottom somewhere. Nifty feature is an oiling hole in the axle retaining plates under the trucks. These are fine runners and look good.
My new BB F7A undecorated I bought in about 1974 had no windows. Steel flywheels. Growls nicely. Who needs DCC sound with that mechanical growl?
Look more closely, you may find these are not F7's at all, but rather FP9's which are longer than F7's and F9's to allow additional steam heat water supply tanks.
Atlas imported these decades ago, and had them manufactered by ROCO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184808520930?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=184808520930&targetid=1263433205014&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9007855&poi=&campaignid=13384639657&mkgroupid=121918377814&rlsatarget=pla-1263433205014&abcId=9300578&merchantid=115347493&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxJqHBhC4ARIsAChq4au_PkLu69Fi7rdnlaMrBw0AknQgwMRgvLZhovY_zCc8uE0WYSEE6O0aAoeREALw_wcB
https://www.google.com/search?q=atlas+roco+fp9&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS776US777&oq=atlas+roco+fp9&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160.7816j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Sheldon
They were produced during the early 1980's in more than one product run if I recall correctly. They actually are great runners and relatively bulletproof. There may have been an overlap during which the Stewart/Kato F units and Atlas FP7's were available brand new at the same time. The Atlas units were a good value as somewhat better than what Athearn blue box offerings were at the same time.
I owned both SP and WP versions of the FP7.
John
Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres ...... If it's CPR it can't be an F7A.
No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres ......
If it's CPR it can't be an F7A.
Really? You did not use the term FP7 or FP9 until I brought it up? Yes, I was working from memory and yes the Atlas loco was labeled as a FP7, not a FP9.
CN and CP were the primary owners/users of FP9's, and the visual differences between FP7's and FP9's are pretty small, especially later FP7's vs FP9's.
There are/were lots of F3's and a fair number of F7's with steam generators for passenger service - none of them are "FP" units.
FP's, 7's or 9's, are 4' longer than other F units.
Atlas sold them, others might have marketed them as well. ROCO, in whatever box, was the only plastic model I am aware of until Intermountain and Athearn Genesis got in the act.
I never owned one because they never made a matching B unit on the same drive to use with them. Gearing/speed too different to use them with Athearn B units.
The ATLANTIC CENTRAL has both passenger equiped "F units" and FP7's. All supplied by Intermountain, Athearn and Athearn Genesis. And they include a kit bashed FP7 made from two Athearn bluebox shells and a frame extension - long before anyone offered the loco other than in brass.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe ATLANTIC CENTRAL has both passenger equiped "F units" and FP7's. All supplied by Intermountain, Athearn and Athearn Genesis.
The STRATTON AND GILLETTE follows SANTA FE practice for passenger F units and has steam generators in the B units only.
The SGRR also has that FP7, which is a project for a ways down the line.
Lastspikemike But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres ......
At three inches I don't know how to tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9, or a GP7 and a GP9, or a GP50 and a GP60, and so on...
I can spot BL-2s and GP-30s.
Not sure why this convo got complicated.
The Stewart/Kato drive is inherently quieter than the BB because of the differences in motors.
Atlas has nothing to do with that topic.
Even though Atlas used a Kato drive on most of their locos, the FP didn't. It was Roco built (but was also quiet). Atlas never built an "F" unit, only an FP and it was was produced only during the Yellow Box era.
Also, Atlas old yellow box S2/S4 was Roco built. Interestingly, when Atlas switched every loco to China production but continued to use Kato motors, the S2/S4 went there too and were then sold in the Red Box, I believe still using the Roco drives and motors (not sure about that).
The FP never made it to Japan or beyond the Yellow Box production era.
The yellow box Atlas era actually overlapped with the Stewart/Kato era. Both were clearly better than Athearn blue box units of the time.
You could buy both yellow box Atlas engines (some Kato and some Roco/Austria) and white box Stewart/Kato engines brand new from both dealers and distributors for several years. This was when they still had large product runs and cases of engines in stock.
I worked for a distributor (actually a part of Bowser) then, unloaded the truckloads of these engines, and took and filled the mail orders and got them packed and ready to be shipped out...We would easily receive 100 cases or more of Atlas or Stewart/Kato engines in any one shipment, thus tying up some money for a period of time (because they were not pre-sold or pre-ordered).
Doughless Not sure why this convo got complicated. The Stewart/Kato drive is inherently quieter than the BB because of the differences in motors. Atlas has nothing to do with that topic. Even though Atlas used a Kato drive on most of their locos, the FP didn't. It was Roco built (but was also quiet). Atlas never built an "F" unit, only an FP and it was was produced only during the Yellow Box era. Also, Atlas old yellow box S2/S4 was Roco built. Interestingly, when Atlas switched every loco to China production but continued to use Kato motors, the S2/S4 went there too and were then sold in the Red Box, I believe still using the Roco drives and motors (not sure about that). The FP never made it to Japan or beyond the Yellow Box production era.
Ask Mike why it got complicated....
I have never owned any Kato, Stewart or Roco locos. I was not in loco buying mode at that time in history. I had what needed at the time for the size layout I had then. I sold my share of them right before I stopped working in this business.
They are nice drives no question, but I 'm happy my increased needs waited for the better detail of Proto, Genesis and Intermoutain.
I have a few old Blue Box units left, and they are quiet enough, but they are completely rebuilt with balanced brass flywheels, can motors, shims on the worm gears, and ironically, Proto2000 wheelsets to get the smooth nickel plated wheels.
And none of those gears have cracked, they are from LifeLike under the cracked gear replacement program.......
My F units are mostly Genesis and Intermountain, one other set is the Blue Box units described above, one other set is Proto2000.
All my road diesels run in three and four unit sets, and locos with the same drive run better together, even with speed matching "technology". But as everyone knows I am a DC operator.
Most of my other diesels are Proto2000, they run great, they run together, and they look great. And, the service parts inventory is in place and easy to maintain since they share so many common parts.
Yes, I practical and pragmatic like that.
SeeYou190 wjstix BTW my Stewart AS-16 from 30 years back had Athearn drive, I eventually replaced it with the updated Stewart chassis / motor etc. when that came available. I was unaware an update kit was ever made.
wjstix BTW my Stewart AS-16 from 30 years back had Athearn drive, I eventually replaced it with the updated Stewart chassis / motor etc. when that came available.
I don't that they ever came out with a "kit". When they brought out the better motor you could buy that separately. In my case I just found a good deal on a new AS-16 with the updated motor and swapped it for the old chassis / motor.
LastspikemikeNo box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres
That's rather impressive since the FP7 and FP9 are allmost identicle Most people don't know which is which
I have a pair of Atlas (not Athearn) F7A with Roco drives. Made entirely by Roco in fact as I understand things. "Made in Austria" is cast into the bottom
Those are FP7 or 9
If only you could figure out how to post a photo
Lastspikemike mikeGTW Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres That's rather impressive since the FP7 and FP9 are allmost identicle Most people don't know which is which I agree, it would be impressive indeed, if I could actually do it...
mikeGTW Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres That's rather impressive since the FP7 and FP9 are allmost identicle Most people don't know which is which
Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres
I agree, it would be impressive indeed, if I could actually do it...
So you're saying that you're earlier statement was made tongue 'n check?
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Lastspikemike tstage Lastspikemike mikeGTW Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres That's rather impressive since the FP7 and FP9 are allmost identicle Most people don't know which is which I agree, it would be impressive indeed, if I could actually do it... So you're saying that you're earlier statement was made tongue 'n check? I'm still not used to the American sense of humour. I get Canadian jokes almost 100% now after living here for 50 years or so but American humour still baffles me on occasion. Yes, I had thought the reference to 100 meters (meters, not paces which maybe would have been a better choice for an American audience) was sufficient to alert the reader ... that is well over 300 feet away... to my use of hyperbole. I guess the self deprecating aspect (that's kind of a Canadian thing) and the oblique reference to my know-it-all reputation on this board went totally unnoticed. Well at least I tried.
tstage Lastspikemike mikeGTW Lastspikemike No box. No instructions. But I can of course tell the difference between an FP7 and an FP9 at 100 metres That's rather impressive since the FP7 and FP9 are allmost identicle Most people don't know which is which I agree, it would be impressive indeed, if I could actually do it... So you're saying that you're earlier statement was made tongue 'n check?
I'm still not used to the American sense of humour. I get Canadian jokes almost 100% now after living here for 50 years or so but American humour still baffles me on occasion.
Yes, I had thought the reference to 100 meters (meters, not paces which maybe would have been a better choice for an American audience) was sufficient to alert the reader ... that is well over 300 feet away... to my use of hyperbole.
I guess the self deprecating aspect (that's kind of a Canadian thing) and the oblique reference to my know-it-all reputation on this board went totally unnoticed.
Well at least I tried.
Sarcasm, self deprecating humor, hyperbole, and "inside jokes" seldom play well in the written word to readers who are not all fully immersed in the situation.
I find myself less and less interested in what is said here. I expect that trend to continue.....
But as a last bit of technical input, set your Atlas FP7 next to some other F7, you will see it is longer by 4 scale feet and has an extra roof panel.
There was no reason for EMD to ever build B units four feet longer, they already had plenty of spare room for larger water tanks.
Many FP7's and 9's were ordered with companion B units also with steam generators.
And, as explained earlier many regular A units also had steam generators with smaller water tanks. Some had piping and pump systems that connected the B unit water supply to the A unit.
The ATSF only put steam generators in the B units and used the space in the A units for larger water tanks to supply the B units.
Each railroad had their choice of several different steam generator setups of different capacities of water and steam BTU's.