JDawg,As my mom used to say, it sounds like you have champagne taste and beer income.
This hobby is not too expensive. What you want to do in this hobby may be too expensive for your hobby budget, but that's on you not the hobby. In yon olden days, guys would literally make freight cars out of cardboard and use staples for grabirons.
In your example, you could have easily bought old boxcars for $5 each. Decent used engines are routinely selling for $50 and DCC is not required for hobby participation nor is sound (right, Sheldon? ). But if you want brand new expensive engines with DCC/Sound, brand new cars, etc., then yeah, it's gonna cost you.
Managing one's expectations is just as important as managing one's budget.
As for anyone looking down on you, where has this happened, specifically? This is one of the most easy-going hobby forums around. I've been here since 2002 (and actually way before that), and while I don't read every thread, I cannot recall any posts like that in the last 19 years. More often than not, what we get here are anti-rivet counter screeds from the "It's my railroad and I'll do what I want!" group.
Sheldon,How many of those things you mention were manufactured before pre-orders? Answer: none.
The only chance of any of these things being made in non-brass form is via pre-orders. There's just no way any of them are going into regular production to be available whenever you feel like buying one.
Why doesn't the B&O historical society pay some manufacturer to make some B&O prototypes? We NH fans did, and that's why we have NH stainless steel passenger cars in coach, parlor, diner and (coming soon) combine styles.
Overmod,The BLI all-brass New Haven I-5 4-6-4 has working valve gear. When you put it in forward, the valve link moves. When it goes into reverse, it moves the other way.
Also, for the realistic diesel operators, check out the ProtoThrottle. It has an 8-notch throttle, 3-position reverser, brake lever, bell button, horn handle, and headlight knobs. Fine tuning it with LokSound or Tsunami2 decodered engines makes for a very realistic experience.
Operating HO-scale people? Sorry, that's gonna have to wait for Augmented Reality goggles.
Since most model railroaders probably come from those who developed an appreciation of full-sized trains, what's "needed" most in model railroading are enough "recruits" to carry things on.
But... the big railroads may be lacking in this regard. They're just not as interesting today as they used to be, and with mergers, there's not a whole lot of variety. The operations that there are, are drab. The engines pretty much look the same on everything.
And they're certainly no longer friendly to non-railroaders who take an interest in them, in the ways they once were. It must be difficult to "get close enough" to see what's going on, before someone chases you away.
I wouldn't want to be working on the big engines today, and friends from work, also retired, feel the same way. The qualities that used to make the job a good one, are gone or are on the way out.
I reckon the only companies that are good to work for today are the short lines and regionals, even for lower pay. Perhaps some passenger/commuter here and there...
Paul,
I agree, I'm just pointing out that preorders have not been some sort of magic bullet that has made every desired product available.
I missed buying a couple of pieces of Athearn RTR a decade ago, nothing real special, but they fit my roster and would save me a paint job or two. I have yet to see them anywhere on the secondary market....
I get the preorder thing much more than do 5 guys all making Big Boys - that is amplified by the fact that I have no interest in a Big Boy..... or a lot of the other "popular and famous" locomotives.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me there was much more product available 10 or 15 years ago than there is today?
Again, my wish list is pretty small, and I have the 140 locos I need to run the layout, and a hundred or more kits yet to build to complete the 1,000 car roster.
JDawg,
It took me 25 years to get to where I could build the 1,000 sq ft layout. Now at 50 years in I'm starting on the 1,500 sq ft layout.
I don't think anyone is looking down on you. Don't take the choices other make for themselves as a criticism of you or what you are doing.
You want DCC and sound, ok. I'm building a 1,500 sq ft layout without DCC and sound. Why? because I'm not impressed with onboard sound, and I want big time operations, long trains, with signaling and CTC - so that's where I'm willing to put the money.
Sheldon
34 years old, a dad of two kids (13 years old and a 4 month old) and a sales engineer...
I would point out free time is nowhere what it was. Cell phones are not only a distraction, but it means work doesn't stop at 5pm either. There are "free" nights I end up working where I know my dad wasn't back in the day. I would also say traveling is easier than what it was(pre covid) which put a strain on families. There are always articles (even in the 70's) about where the new blood is coming from, the hobby is dying.. etc. Well looks like it is still around. Fact is, you can only do so much.
For improvements to the experience. better throttles. I think the protothrottle is too intense, but hitting buttons on the throttle like a remote control (prodigy express DCC).. is like watching tv. signals and operating in general can be improved and made simpler. We get too hung up on radius, track spacing, ho/n scale... I can see how a new person would just be lost. in theory, it shouldn't be a big lift to make a layout like the Heart of Georgia using Kato Unitrack with DCC. prefer to the 30 minutes or 3 hour article by Lance Mindheim. Spot on. Sums up almost every time I get to play with train.
Paul3 snjroy,Actually, the cost of a basic decoder has dropped by 1/3rd since they were introduced around 1998, and now they are better. When my club got into DCC in January 1999, the Digitrax DH120 was $20. Today, the much-improved DH126 decoder is $20. Yes, I know that's that the same price, but consider the cost of inflation. That $20 decoder in 1998 would cost $32.66 today, yet it's still just $20...all while having more advanced features.
snjroy,Actually, the cost of a basic decoder has dropped by 1/3rd since they were introduced around 1998, and now they are better. When my club got into DCC in January 1999, the Digitrax DH120 was $20. Today, the much-improved DH126 decoder is $20. Yes, I know that's that the same price, but consider the cost of inflation. That $20 decoder in 1998 would cost $32.66 today, yet it's still just $20...all while having more advanced features.
Simon
snjroy Well, here is my list: -Less expensive decoders. I can't understand why the cost of simple decoders (motor control and headlight) has not come down -Acrylic paint for model railroaders -Good DIY decal systems -DCC system with smartphone control capability "out of the box" Simon
Well, here is my list:
-Less expensive decoders. I can't understand why the cost of simple decoders (motor control and headlight) has not come down
-Acrylic paint for model railroaders
-Good DIY decal systems
-DCC system with smartphone control capability "out of the box"
JDawg As a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes. For example, here is how I started out when I got into "real" railroading. I wanted to get a decent dcc system. NCE powercab for example. $170 at a retailers sale. Dcc and sound equipped locomotive, let's say an Atlas model, $200 on sale. Rolling stock? 5 accurail cars for $100. Then I need track. A basic oval with a passing siding is $60(atlas brand). Add in your wiring, benchwork and any incidental costs, and presto! You are north of 600$! Could you go cheaper? Absolutly! But this is the path I wanted to take. I wanted dcc, I wanted sound, I wanted a quality locomotive without paying for super duper details. So this is what I ended up with. Cost is my biggest limiting factor in the hobby, not space. Some railroaders complain that they don't have enough space, which is a real problem, I'm not saying they don't have a valid complaint. Yet here I am wishing I had the money to fill the space I do have. My two cents, take it as you will. Also, I have met so so so many modelers that talk down to me just because I don't have a basement sized layout, these older men's attitudes are a real problem. Glance around the forum, look at some people's reply's, and you'll see what I mean. Not to say the whole forum stinks, there are some real awesome people out there To be sure.
As a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes. For example, here is how I started out when I got into "real" railroading. I wanted to get a decent dcc system. NCE powercab for example. $170 at a retailers sale. Dcc and sound equipped locomotive, let's say an Atlas model, $200 on sale. Rolling stock? 5 accurail cars for $100. Then I need track. A basic oval with a passing siding is $60(atlas brand). Add in your wiring, benchwork and any incidental costs, and presto! You are north of 600$! Could you go cheaper? Absolutly! But this is the path I wanted to take. I wanted dcc, I wanted sound, I wanted a quality locomotive without paying for super duper details. So this is what I ended up with. Cost is my biggest limiting factor in the hobby, not space. Some railroaders complain that they don't have enough space, which is a real problem, I'm not saying they don't have a valid complaint. Yet here I am wishing I had the money to fill the space I do have. My two cents, take it as you will.
Also, I have met so so so many modelers that talk down to me just because I don't have a basement sized layout, these older men's attitudes are a real problem. Glance around the forum, look at some people's reply's, and you'll see what I mean. Not to say the whole forum stinks, there are some real awesome people out there To be sure.
richhotrainWhy do we as grown men put up with this frustration?
Because it's not nearly as frustrating as golf!!!
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
ATLANTIC CENTRALWe don't need an "era" identification system, if manufacturers are so inclined they can just as easily put the most basic info on the package.
Well, I wish they would.
JDawgAs a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes.
I know it's cold comfort, but rest assured that you're not the only one that is or has been in that situation.
I"m not saying that you're not but make sure to enjoy what you've already got.
Cheers, the Grumpy Old Bear.
Paul3Lastspikemike, Seriously? "...(E)xcessive obsession with detail and accuracy..."? This forum is all rainbows and unicorns compared to other model railroad forums I've seen. This has to be one of the least obsessed with detail and accuracy model railroad hobbby forums on the internet.
I've got to agree with Paul on this one, on another forum, I saw that this one was basically refered to as "the kiddies forum" who tolerated allsorts of weird members.
Cheers, the happily weird Bear.
One of my Model Railroading grumbles is part of the social media discussion. With some groups (I will not mention which) it seems like there are "mature" individuals who seem to think that the only thing social media (e.g. Facebook) is good for is bad mouthing everything and belittle anyone who seems to think they are a good thing.
Another is tied to the paint discussion. There are some of us who don't like using solvent-based (i.e. Scalecoat) paint due to the smell and the challenge to clean things. There are also people that for one reason or another strictly brush paint. I don't know if the pandemic has caused it but it is getting harder to find paints that aren't pre-thinned for airbrush use or give water cleanup (i.e. the now gone Polly S/Polly Scale and the disappearing Model Master paints). I have a few bottles of actone clean up paints I haven't tried yet as I haven't needed the colors. I only bought them to have on standby as a couple of them are weathering colors (White, Rust and Grimy Black. I do have a bottle of actone-based finger nail polish remover standing by when I do.) Even the non-Testors company I had been buying my paints from has been nearly non-existant on acrylic-based paints as of late. For those of us that paint our own equipment whether it's prototype, feelance or protolance, not being able to find needed paint makes modeling impossible.
As to the RTR and pre-order issue, I can see both sides of the issue. I grew up as a model railroader on Athearn BB cars and engines and Roundhouse/MDC cars. I still have a bunch of those Athearn engines and and shells riding on modified Athearn drives on my layout (over half of about 40) and a fair portion of my cars are BB's. However, for engines, I also have some old AHMs (older than me), three P2k engines, a few higher end Bachmanns (was given those), a couple of Atlas yellow box, and a Walthers switcher. Between those engine and my freight cars, name a company that made plastic HO scale equipment in the last 40 years, I probably have something from them. I still have an MDC bulkhead car that was among my first individual car purchases from 30+ years ago. I however did recently completely repaint and reletter it (and another one I was given) to be more accurate. But RTR and pre-order cars, presuming the manufacturer does their due dilligence and researches the cars correctly, they are very good cars. (I've had a few cars that I gotten via pre-order or plain old scrounging that the lettering and schemes were wrong in one way or another. Some were worse than others: On one kind, the lettering was all wrong and I had to completely reletter it to match the prototype. On another one from the same company, the number on the car was a complete foobie but everything else was right. Yet another one from that company I had to add a decal stripe down the middle of the car. Of course, there is the constant problem of incorrect sill types and door details but that is a whole different discussion. Thankfully I'm very good at decaling engines and cars and fixing problems like the sills.) I've also gotten some very good limited run cars that are very impressive. Exactrail being a very good example. For my first two cars from them, I did have to save my money up but they were well worth it. (How many of us have had to do that for big purchases?) Even now, I'm having a debate with myself about getting a $60+ car from yet a another company that handled diesel fuel for my prototype railroad.
Just my 2 cents worth.
richhotrain Why do we as grown men put up with this frustration? Because it's not nearly as frustrating as golf!!! Cheers, the Bear.
richhotrain Why do we as grown men put up with this frustration?
Rich
Alton Junction
OvermodWhat I've wanted 'all these years' is more functional realism in 'relatively attainable' technologies: steam-locomotive valve gear that works,
The only thing missing is the link to the mechanical lubricator (probably to be installed after the boiler is in place )
Cheers, Ed
Paul3 Why doesn't the B&O historical society pay some manufacturer to make some B&O prototypes? We NH fans did, and that's why we have NH stainless steel passenger cars in coach, parlor, diner and (coming soon) combine styles.
I'd like to see the PRR groups do something like this to get a Baldwin BP20 passenger sharknose produced. And maybe some more versions of P70 coaches.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Paul3Overmod,The BLI all-brass New Haven I-5 4-6-4 has working valve gear. When you put it in forward, the valve link moves. When it goes into reverse, it moves the other way.
Most high-end brass lacks a fully working valve gear, but on Tyco steamers, at least the radius rod moved.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL TheFlyingScotsman An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara. Walthers is working on it. I think they were completely blind sided when Shinohara closed up. Sheldon
TheFlyingScotsman An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara.
An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara.
Walthers is working on it. I think they were completely blind sided when Shinohara closed up.
I wish that Kadee was working on it, but that is just a pipe dream.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL TheFlyingScotsman An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara. Walthers is working on it. I think they were completely blind sided when Shinohara closed up. Sheldon I wish that Kadee was working on it, but that is just a pipe dream. -Kevin
Kevin, I don't see how ease of use, and design flexibility can meet each other in a track system. I look at KATO track and just see "expensive train set track", not anything I would ever build a layout with.
The hobby needs more public exposure. C'mon, man, model train layouts are really neat! Pre-Covid, we had train shows, real ones, and clubs held open houses. Some time ago, some clubs put up layouts in malls, giving people who wouldn't otherwise have a chance to look att our craftsmanship an opportunity to view a layout without even making a special trip. North of Boston, modelers opened their home layouts for an event called the Tour de Chooch.
We need that kind of outreach to bring more people, particularly kids, into the hobby.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I look at KATO track and just see "expensive train set track", not anything I would ever build a layout with.
I said Kadee, not Kato.
By the way, I use Kato track for hidden track, and it is wonderful for that application.
Lots of top-notch N scale layouts are buit with Kato track, but their HO scale line is quite limited.
I understand, my point is no sectional track system provides the necessary design flexibility.
I doubt Kadee would even consider the idea, I could be wrong?
But I am happy with the existing track offerings and can build my own.
What this hobby needs is a rule that manufacturers are not allowed to announce a product as "Coming Soon" more than three months before it actually comes to market. I've seen too many products that were announced years before they actually became available. If it's not on the assembly line, it's not coming soon so just shut up about it already.
John-NYBW What this hobby needs is a rule that manufacturers are not allowed to announce a product as "Coming Soon" more than three months before it actually comes to market. I've seen too many products that were announced years before they actually became available. If it's not on the assembly line, it's not coming soon so just shut up about it already.
It's funny, back in the day, manufacturers worked together in some ways, but new products were top secret until they were about to go on the trucks to the distributors.
But that was before preorders........
ATLANTIC CENTRALI doubt Kadee would even consider the idea, I could be wrong?
No, you are not wrong.
It seems to me a good line of track would fall right into Kadee's range. Wheels, Couplers, Trucks, and Track make up the operational piece of a layout. They already make the rest, track would make sense to me to round it all out.
"Everything beneath the floor should be... Kadee", see I even wrote the slogan for them.
Ah... just a pipe-dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL John-NYBW What this hobby needs is a rule that manufacturers are not allowed to announce a product as "Coming Soon" more than three months before it actually comes to market. I've seen too many products that were announced years before they actually became available. If it's not on the assembly line, it's not coming soon so just shut up about it already. It's funny, back in the day, manufacturers worked together in some ways, but new products were top secret until they were about to go on the trucks to the distributors. But that was before preorders........ Sheldon
I'm not sure the problem is all pre-orders. I don't think WS Utility System which has been Coming Soon for about a year is a pre-order item but maybe I am wrong about that. I've seen many such items announced well before their delivery date in recent years. Going back a ways, I lost count of the number of times the Walthers 130' turntable had it's expected delivery date pushed back, usually 3 months at a time. I think it was at least a year and a half between their initial delivery date and the actual delivery date. The worst one I encountered was BLI's Twentieth Century Limited streamlined Hudson. It was well over two years, probably closer to three between announcement and delivery. That one probably was pre-order issue.
John-NYBWWhat this hobby needs is a rule that manufacturers are not allowed to announce a product as "Coming Soon" more than three months before it actually comes to market.
How does that help when your Chinese manufacturer throws in the towel. When Shinohara says we aren't doing this anymore?
Who is going to enforce your rule? What are the penalties?
I preordered a Bowser WM RS-3 a couple years ago. I eventurally lost interest and decided that throwing hundreds of dollars into new locos and rolling stock at my age is just food for the dumpster. Bowser claims it is being manufactured this month. Maybe so, maybe not. What will be the political situation when it is time to ship it?
Not my intention to turn political, but here are a lot of issues on that side of the world, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South China Sea, Fentanyl, Things far beyond model railroading may affect availability of model trains.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
John-NYBW ATLANTIC CENTRAL John-NYBW What this hobby needs is a rule that manufacturers are not allowed to announce a product as "Coming Soon" more than three months before it actually comes to market. I've seen too many products that were announced years before they actually became available. If it's not on the assembly line, it's not coming soon so just shut up about it already. It's funny, back in the day, manufacturers worked together in some ways, but new products were top secret until they were about to go on the trucks to the distributors. But that was before preorders........ Sheldon I'm not sure the problem is all pre-orders. I don't think WS Utility System which has been Coming Soon for about a year is a pre-order item but maybe I am wrong about that. I've seen many such items announced well before their delivery date in recent years. Going back a ways, I lost count of the number of times the Walthers 130' turntable had it's expected delivery date pushed back, usually 3 months at a time. I think it was at least a year and a half between their initial delivery date and the actual delivery date. The worst one I encountered was BLI's Twentieth Century Limited streamlined Hudson. It was well over two years, probably closer to three between announcement and delivery. That one probably was pre-order issue.
Maybe, Maybe not, but it was before all the manufacturing was contracted out to someone in another country.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out the obvious. When companies did their own maufacturing they had a better idea of when things would really be ready to sell.
The current situation is what it is, I don't see any of it changing. Not the preorders, not the advance hype sometimes years in advance, not the unpredictable nature of the supply.
No body wants to hold any inventory anymore, all the experts tell me they can't afford to do that. So, if I can get my hands on what I want, I buy it.
Otherwise I already have 1,000 freight cars, 170 passenger cars, 145 locomotives, and oodles of all the other pieces and bits to build a model railroad.
MisterBeasleyThe hobby needs more public exposure.
Young Sheldon plays with trains.
Emma Stone played with her trains on Saturday Night Live.
OldEngineman,Not for nothing, but plenty of old diesels look alike, too. GP28, GP35, GP38, GP38-2, GP40, GP40-2, GP50, GP60, etc. You have to know fan size & number, site glasses, and radiator size to tell one from the other. Also in the old days, if you were watching an SP RoW, all you saw were SP engines. Today, you can see UP, BNSF, NS, CSX, KCS, CP, or CN locos on just about any mainline at any time. And if you wanna talk about drab, watching old 1940's and 1950's color films shows bazillions of brown boxcars and black steamers. Nothing more drab than that. Don't get me wrong, I model the olden days, but today has a lot more variations than one might think.Sheldon,No one has said pre-orders are a magic bullet. Clearly some things are going to be uneconomical to make (Ingalls 4S anyone?), but at least there's a chance for borderline products. DL-109's, FL9's, and C-430's never saw the light of day outside of brass before pre-orders. But with pre-orders, each of those types have had multiple profitable runs made over the years.I'm sorry you missed out on a couple pre-order things, but how is it any different then the product not being made at all? The end result is still the same: you don't have the product. At least with the missed pre-order products, they might turn up at some point. With no pre-orders they will almost certainly never show up.I don't care that Athearn, BLI, MTH, Rivarossi, and Trix all make Big Boys. I don't want any of them 'cause I don't model the UP, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else buys 'em. In fact, I consider it good news that Big Boys sell; every time a manufacturer does a run of low-hanging fruit like Big Boys, GEVOs or F-units, it pays their bills for them to perhaps make something I do want.
You are wrong about being less product than 10-15 years ago. Just look at all the new manufacturers: Rapido, Bluford, Tangent, Moloco, ExactRail, Fox Valley, ScaleTrains, Spring Mills, Wheels of Time, etc. And we still have Accurail, Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, BLI, Bowser, InterMountain, Kadee, Walthers, et al. All of them are still cranking out product, year after year. This is a golden age for this hobby.
Outsailing86,As a ProtoThrottle owner, I have to say that the realism one can attain with a properly tuned LokSound or Tsunami-equipped loco is outstanding. It's very pricey, but it's certainly a whole new experience over any other throttle.snjroy,The problem is that decoders are all made in-house (with foreign-made parts). Digitrax and NCE assemble and solder all their products in the USA. The reason why other consumer electronics decrease in cost over time is due to ever-increasing mass production to an expanding marketplace. DCC decoders are still made using the same process as 20 years ago in a relatively stagnant marketplace. It took NCE about 8 or 9 years or so to make their 1 millionth decoder; how many cell phones have been sold by comparison over that time span?And the basic DCC decoder of today is well advanced over the same type of decoder in 1998. Old DH120's didn't have advanced consisting, didn't have a Normal Direction of Travel CV, didn't have supersonic motor control, didn't have CV8 reset, etc. The new DH126 has a socket for a capacitor pack plug-in that the old DH120's didn't have, the function current is now rated at 500ma vs. 200ma, motor controls are now 128 speed step vs. 28, and functions can be re-mapped, etc.All this and they've kept the same price despite 20+ years of inflation. I think that's pretty good. By comparison, I remember paying $2.95 for a 2-pair pack of Kadee No. 5's in the 1990's. Today, that same coupler pack is now $4.69, which pretty much lines up exactly with inflation."JaBear",Thanks! Not that there's anything wrong with that. There should be laid back and relaxed social forums as well as more serious types that discuss details in depth. The internet and our hobby is big enough for both; I just think it's funny that people believe that this forum is some kind of brutal place of nitpicking. Folks, if you think this is bad, let me tell you about the old days on the uncensored newsgroup rec.models.railroad. (Putting on my old man voice) "Back in my day, we only had text and no graphics but that's the way it was and we liked it!"Looking at your signature: "Optimists think the glass if half full and pessimists think the glass is half empty; engineers think the glass is too big."steemtrayn,As the guys at Rapido have said when it comes to model production, "There's nothing money can't solve." If the PRRT&HS can get enough money together for a project, Rapido will talk with them. We (the NHRHTA) did, and look what we've got over the last 5 years or so. Money talks...John-NYBW,That's not happening. It's usually at least a year between announcement and delivery. That time is used to judge, through pre-orders, if the project goes forward or not. It's an important step and manufacturers that use it are not going to change any time soon. No one wants to make a dud, and they want to give folks plenty of time to make up their minds (and save their pennies) to order a product or not. That being said, no manufacturer wants to be late. That they are late is usually due to production problems in China, or world-wide effects (like COVID), or there is a lack of pre-orders. They kick the can down the road to see if they get enough to justify the production run. They could just cancel it instead, but they've already sunk a bunch of R&D money and they don't want to waste it. They want to give it every chance to be successful, so it's delayed.Sheldon,Some manufacturers still work together in a limited sense, just not openly. After all, a number of them are friends who either worked together elsewhere or have spent a bunch of time hanging out together at numerous NMRA Conventions and other train shows. One guy might drop a dime to another and let them know that maybe they shouldn't announce product X because they are ready to announce it. It doesn't always happen, of course, and some times it's too late to stop an announcement. But I know for a fact that ScaleTrains was going to make a certain freight car until they got wind that Walthers was making it.And yes, no one can afford to stock all the product these days. Stocking 100 $20 engines is heckuva difference from 100 $200 engines. Same goes for $5 freight cars vs. $50 ones, or $10 passenger cars vs. $100 ones. And it would be one thing if there were only 100 items of each kind to stock; today there are thousands. The diversification of our hobby interests is what has changed everything, not pre-orders.
Not much is needed, IMO.
Now that manufacturers are producing GP7u's, GP9r's, GP10s, basic chop nose GP9's, Genset's, SW1200's, SDL39's, etc; many with front and rear LED ditchlights, the hobby is pretty complete.
And they keep introducing new rolling stock to keep up with the large variety and special designs of the present era. Many with patched out names and faded original paint color.
Took them about 15 years to finally notice the market they were missing, but better late than never.
- Douglas