They're switching over to ESU Loksound.
I'll miss the wireless drawbars on their steam locomoties, which were a hit or miss.
Im glad it was taken over by scale trains, not MRC or something.
I'll be interested in how they will handle duplicate engines like the dash 9.
Announced on Amherst Train Show
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I have always had a facination with MTHs HO scale steam locomotives, as I have memories of seeing ads for them in MRR in the early 2000s when i was a kid, and finding they where relased in muktipule batches by seeing the arhive at PWRS Group.I am looking forward to their Enpire Buiilder Dryfus Hudsons and 2-6-6-6 H8s down the line of time. I congrate ScaleTrains for taking on MTHs tooling.
A big thank you to Scale Trains. It is always a loss to all of us when a manufacturer leaves the market, and to me this might be the best of all possible outcomes.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Good to see that an ethical company is taking over. I might consider buying some of their products, if they produce the steamers.
I just couldn't bring myself to support MTH because of their past business practices.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Watching James Wright's video now - glad to hear, especialyl about a whole bunch of unproduced steam era freight cars that they are going to be doing. Not much previously from Scale Trains that I could use - either too new, or very specific (Turbines), but if they start making the MTH steam era freight cars...
Hmm, collector level now for my MTH FAs, and if Scale Trains does the MTH FAs with their own chassis and ESU decoders, and none of the silly remote uncouplers - I'm interested.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Again, the Little Joe or the Bi Polar Milwaukee engines might interest me, and even prompt me to "electrify" part of my layout. I would never have bought a DCS engine, but this new turn of events has me thinking.
I wouldn't even entertain MTH because of DCS. Now with Scale Trains using their own motors and DCC I am interested in seeing what will be coming in the future especially where steam is concerned. Nice move for Scale Trains.
Jeff
Well, OK, we will see how this goes.
Personally, the MTH steamers I have seen in person did not impress me much.
The cast metal boilers often have heavy oversized cast on detail in places. The running boards on their Berkshire are a scale foot thick.
And since they only tooled up one version with few separate details, when MTH offered it they just painted them for C&O with the wrong dome location, wrong tender, etc.
But, maybe they can salvage the best and fix the rest, but I don't consider anything I ever saw from MTH to be at a Scale Trains detail level.
But agreed, better them than some other places it could have ended up.
There is for me considerable satisfaction however that Mike Wolf's misguided venture into HO should end up in the hands of true experts in HO part of the hobby, who will know how to properly rework and remarket it.
Sheldon
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, OK, we will see how this goes. Personally, the MTH steamers I have seen in person did not impress me much.
Overall, Id say MTH steamers are fairly impressive. Although the Scale Train's representative did say that "they are already at rivet counter levels" I do disagree with.
Surprisingly, MTH's K4 is by far the most accurate, more accurate than BLI's (who messed up some of the post war/prewar detail variations). There are some molded on detail that Id like to see separately applied. Their USRA mikado is also very well done detail wise. GS-4 is also very good. (missing bell and some piping).
The berkshire I agree is probably one of the worst offenders as far as detail goes. Their PRR H10s also has quite a few dimensional issues.
Their Bigboy used BLI blueline tooling, so Im sure that one's okay.
I dont have any experience with their J class, triplex, yellowstone etc.
Overall, I like the variation of steamers they bring to the table(especially the NYC mohawks, empire state which no one else has made), and am glad now they will have non of that MTH propriatary junk. I hope scale trains will update some details, but would not be surprised if they didnt.
Like Lionel's various ventures into HO, he treated the HO market like the O scale market - and the two couldn;t be different. And there are silly things on almost all of their HO locos - the operating couplers that don't actually work very well (but at least they included a set of Kadees to swap out), they put working class lights, but they were red/green/off - partly a limitation of the electronics since pretty much only ESU has the control capability to do red/green/white/off. The one larger stem loco, which in the real thing is not articulated - they articulated to make run around 18" radius curves. Clear throwback to the O scale market when O-27 and O-31 curves (remember, those are 27" DIAMETER and 31" DIAMETER, not radius) are the norm. Thing looks silly running in their demo video.
ANd of course the electronics. Proprietary DCS system, not standard DCC, and no DC only option. ANd it's not a simply job of just swapping out that what you don;t want - MTH wires all their LED lighting backwards, with a - common. DCC standard is a + common. No ability to return to the previous state when power is interrupted - this leads to my FA/FB set constantly having one unit wuitht he sound on and the other with sound off when running ont eh club layout. One cuts out, you need to press F6 to start it back up. But then the one that's still running see the F6 and shuts down - it's a toggle that doesn't care about the actual state of F6, instead of it being simply "If F6 is on, sound is on, if F6 is off, sound is off".
Engi1487 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, OK, we will see how this goes. Personally, the MTH steamers I have seen in person did not impress me much. When I found that the silver and black NYC Empire Builder dreyfuss Hudsons exsisted in HO scale, thanks to the archive of products in PWRS's history, the silver and black paint in some areas looked a bit not so well done in some areas.Still, the rest of the HO steam lineup are and look supurb, altough the decoder choice was faulty. With ScakeTrains quality control I think these models can make a well deversed upgraded comeback.Was Mike Wolf the CEO who decided to retire? How was his ventue into HO scale misguided, as the choice of decoder seems like the only faultof MTHs HO scale steam locomotives?- Gilbert
When I found that the silver and black NYC Empire Builder dreyfuss Hudsons exsisted in HO scale, thanks to the archive of products in PWRS's history, the silver and black paint in some areas looked a bit not so well done in some areas.Still, the rest of the HO steam lineup are and look supurb, altough the decoder choice was faulty. With ScakeTrains quality control I think these models can make a well deversed upgraded comeback.Was Mike Wolf the CEO who decided to retire? How was his ventue into HO scale misguided, as the choice of decoder seems like the only faultof MTHs HO scale steam locomotives?- Gilbert
Yes, Mike Wolf is the retiring owner of MTH.
Well, no doubt the electronics was the biggest misguided move, thinking you could "convert" HO modelers to their propriatary DCS control system, then finally giving in and making them more DCC friendly.
What you might not know about that control system is that on straight DC the average MTH loco will only run at about 35 smph unless you have a higher than standard voltage.
You are welcome to think those steam locos are great, some are better than others. But much of the detail is oversized and clunky to make them more "handling friendly".
As I described about the Berkshire, as they built it, it is only correct for Nickel Plate, not for the other roads they lettered it for that used similar locos. It will take major retooling to make that loco even close to the accuracy of, dare I say it, the Bachmann offerings of those locos for C&O or PM.
Don't get me wrong, this is good news for the hobby, but Scale Trains deserves the praise for stepping up, MTH does not deserve praise for the way they approached the HO market.
Engi1487 How was his ventue into HO scale misguided, as the choice of decoder seems like the only faultof MTHs HO scale steam locomotives?- Gilbert
How was his ventue into HO scale misguided, as the choice of decoder seems like the only faultof MTHs HO scale steam locomotives?- Gilbert
It wasn't the "choice" of decoders but everything about DCS that infuriated other modelers. Things have improved, but originally DCS engines only ran on DCS systems, and ONLY DCS engines ran on DCS systems. Even now, DCS decoders are not available except in DCS engines, so if you used DCS, you were a captive of MTH and their products.
Videotape recorders are a thing of the past now, but if you recall, there were two incompatible formats, VHS and Beta. MTH wanted everyone to use his proprietary system, but they were a closed format. DCC, on the other hand, is an open format which has gained popularity and sparked innovation.
DCS is really WORSE than just a closed system. Even if you wanted to use DCS, you can;t buy the decoders from MTH to convert all your other locos to use DCS. You can ONLY get DCS in MTH locos, so if you wanted that Athearn Genesis loco that MTH didn't make, and wanted to run it on DCS - too bad. There's some sort of pass thru but then you'd have to buy both a DCS system AND a DCC system.
I would LOVE to hear a logical business explanation for this. If their system is so superior (remember the slogan - HO trains that do more!), then why not offer the electronics to install in your own locos and convert to their 'superior' system? That's straight toy train mentality to expect people to only buy your locos and no others.
rrinker That's straight toy train mentality to expect people to only buy your locos and no others. --Randy
That's straight toy train mentality to expect people to only buy your locos and no others.
Exactly.
rrinker I would LOVE to hear a logical business explanation for this. If their system is so superior (remember the slogan - HO trains that do more!), then why not offer the electronics to install in your own locos and convert to their 'superior' system? That's straight toy train mentality to expect people to only buy your locos and no others. --Randy
MTH got away with having their own system in O scale, because Lionel also had their own. I guess having propriatary control systems in O scale is standard, so they thought they can pull the same trick in HO.
Also, in O scale, MTH has a lot more offerings, so many O scale modelers are satisfied with staying within the MTH(or lionel) ecosystem. However in HO, there are so many more offerings, with MTH only holding a small percentage. People are bound to want to expand.
The only way I can see themselves getting away with it is to heavily promote DCS trainsets, to in a way, force beginer modelers into thinking they MUST stay inside the DCS ecosystem, or else their engines wont work.
That, or they make every model under the sun.
I think this is a great announcement - especially for the S-scale community, as S-scale has been waning for a while now and really needs a good shot in the arm in regards to product availability.
My hope also is that Scale Trains will eventually release some new car names for the MTH 20th Century Limited passenger cars that came out in 2013, which are terrific. I LOVE the interior lighting module using caps for flicker-free operation.) The '40 cars - new or used - garner some pretty stiff prices on eBay these days. I already have the 10-car set of the 40' TCL. I really want another diner, as two diners were the common arrangement for the TCL.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'm glad that the classic NYC IRT subway cars will continue to be available in HO! Still in my budget plans, but getting closer to buying several of them.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
tstage I think this is a great announcement - especially for the S-scale community, as S-scale has been waning for a while now and really needs a good shot in the arm in regards to product availability. My hope also is that Scale Trains will eventually release some new car names for the MTH 20th Century Limited passenger cars that came out in 2013, which are terrific. I LOVE the interior lighting module using caps for flicker-free operation.) The '40 cars - new or used - garner some pretty stiff prices on eBay these days. I already have the 10-car set of the 40' TCL. I really want another diner, as two diners were the common arrangement for the TCL. Tom
Yes, in most cases it's not quite the "Century" without two diners.
The ATLANTIC CENTRAL subscribes to that thinking as well.
MTH made some good stuff, but they don't walk on water. My local shop was a big O gauge store 15 years ago, and he can tell lots of stories of defective electronics in MTH locos of every scale.
Again, it is great that these assets are going to people who understand HO.
So I may yet be in for a non-brass HO 2-8-8-4 by 2028? Kewl.
The title of this topic has exclamation marks at the end of it, but I don't find this acquisition personally exciting. If any thing it may delay them getting a rivet counter GP30 or GP40 to market with the distraction of all the MTH products.
Non of the MTH freight cars are any good to me and I avoided their F7's. Seems the main things are steam engines. I guess this is how ST can add steam engines to their line-up without the bother of developing and tooling them which ain't easy. Ask Jason.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
tstageI think this is a great announcement - especially for the S-scale community, as S-scale has been waning for a while now and really needs a good shot in the arm in regards to product availability.
I agree.
This is the S Helper line which is excellent. I just hope they revive the line better than MTH did. In particular I would like to see another run of the Consolidations - something MTH never did. Also I would like to see them return to S Helpers practice of including scale wheels with the freight cars.
Paul
Well if they rerelease the triplex, I may make an easy 2-8-8-0!
I'm hoping they reissue the HO passenger car sets for the 20th Century Limited and the Empire State Express. I have the five car 20th Century set but passed on the two additional cars and wish I hadn't. I was planning to add those later when MTH announced it was going out of business. I bought their ESE Hudson but opted to use Walthers passenger cars behind it. That was a mistake. The MTH cars are so much more reliable. Derailments are extremely rare. Most of my Walthers passenger cars require a lot of tinkering with the trucks to keep them on the tracks. I looked on ebay and a used five car set of MTH ESE passenger cars is going for $600. I can't remember what I paid for my MTH 20th Century cars but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that much.
I've never understood the gripe people have with MTH and their DCS system. I have two of their streamlined Hudsons and they work just fine on my DCC layout. If I didn't know they were DCS, I never would have noticed a difference. I've never done much with the advanced functions so maybe that is where the problem lies, but the basic functions, motor and sound, seem no different to me. I don't have lot of MTH equipment on my layout but what I do have is top drawer. Their passenger cars are vastly superior to anything I've bought with the Walthers brand name on it.
John-NYBW I've never understood the gripe people have with MTH and their DCS system. I have two of their streamlined Hudsons and they work just fine on my DCC layout. If I didn't know they were DCS, I never would have noticed a difference. I've never done much with the advanced functions so maybe that is where the problem lies, but the basic functions, motor and sound, seem no different to me. I don't have lot of MTH equipment on my layout but what I do have is top drawer. Their passenger cars are vastly superior to anything I've bought with the Walthers brand name on it.
Agreed, the passenger cars are very nice.
Agreed, if you don't want or need to make decoder adjustments only the earliest MTH locos presented any DCC problems.
Opinons vary about the appearance virtues of other MTH HO products, but if you are happy, great.
But I am a DC operator, and DCS locos don't run well on DC even though it is in theory a "triple mode" decoder.
Read any honest MTH product review and you will read about how on DC the locos will only run about 35 smph at 12-14 volts.
I don't run my DC trains on 18 volts.........
And getting DCS locos to run double headed with other brands is problematic on DCC.
Personally, most of the MTH steam locos I have seen in person appear to have bulky toy like detail - lots of detail, just oversized and "robust" to make it handling friendly. I have no issue with finescale fragile models.....
Same with their diesels, never impressed me much.
Since I have no interest in onboard sound, DCS or DCC control, am not impressed with the "model" aspects, and have no interest in, or already have other models of the items they have offered, I never had any desire to purchase any of their products.
In many ways MTH represents a part of the hobby I am not in.
Trainman440 Overall, I like the variation of steamers they bring to the table(especially the NYC mohawks, empire state which no one else has made), and am glad now they will have non of that MTH propriatary junk. I hope scale trains will update some details, but would not be surprised if they didnt. Charles
Correction. In 1991, Rivarossi and Con-Cor put out a combined set for the Empire State Express. It was a Rivarossi Hudson and Con-Cor passenger cars. I bought the set. I wasn't impressed with the Con-Cor cars but the Hudson was typical for Rivarossi at that time. I upgraded the passenger cars with lots of extra weight, new wheelsets, diaphragms, and body mounted KD couplers to make them acceptable.
I don't know if the loco is still available from Rivarossi or not. I haven't bought anything new from them in many years. Mine is sitting gathering dust because I never got around to retrofitting it with a decoder. When the MTH version came out, I hopped on it. MTH offered it in several road numbers and without even bothering to check I ordered the one with the same number as the Rivarossi one, 5426.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Read any honest MTH product review and you will read about how on DC the locos will only run about 35 smph at 12-14 volts. I don't run my DC trains on 18 volts......... And getting DCS locos to run double headed with other brands is problematic on DCC.
Actually not true, atleast in my experience. My two K4s, USRA 2-8-2 and F7 from MTH go plenty fast, much much faster than 35 smph... I havent bothered to track their speed but Id say they can easily reach 90 smph. And I use a basic NCE powercab which runs at 13.5v.
I looked through my videos and found a clip of my K4 around speed step 40-60 going much faster than 35 smph: https://youtu.be/G3qvKvvUnho?t=202
I dont feel comfortable making it go any faster around my tight curves lol.
Consisting is a pain in DCC but it is most certainly possible, you'll have to manually program the CVs though, my NCE adv consist system didnt work on them.
I got my double MTH K4s consist make a cameo in one of my videos here, they run fine together.
https://youtu.be/pefZrhsHOds?t=34
PS and yes, I forgot about Rivarossi's rendition of the Empire state. Oops.
Trainman440 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Read any honest MTH product review and you will read about how on DC the locos will only run about 35 smph at 12-14 volts. I don't run my DC trains on 18 volts......... And getting DCS locos to run double headed with other brands is problematic on DCC. Actually not true, atleast in my experience. My two K4s, USRA 2-8-2 and F7 from MTH go plenty fast, much much faster than 35 smph... I havent bothered to track their speed but Id say they can easily reach 90 smph. And I use a basic NCE powercab which runs at 13.5v. I looked through my videos and found a clip of my K4 around speed step 40-60 going much faster than 35 smph: https://youtu.be/G3qvKvvUnho?t=202 I dont feel comfortable making it go any faster around my tight curves lol. Consisting is a pain in DCC but it is most certainly possible, you'll have to manually program the CVs though, my NCE adv consist system didnt work on them. I got my double MTH K4s consist make a cameo in one of my videos here, they run fine together. https://youtu.be/pefZrhsHOds?t=34 Charles PS and yes, I forgot about Rivarossi's rendition of the Empire state. Oops.
Charles, I'm not talking about DCC track voltage, on regular DC they will not run full speed, the DCS decoders for some reason will not let full voltage thru from a DC power pack.
It is not just a high starting voltage issue then with a compressed speed adjustment like DCC, it is a lack of abilty to get past a medium speed even at full voltage.
This has been widely reported by reviewers in a number of publications.