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Nova3d Elfin 2 resin 3d printer Ask Me Anything (AMA) + updated info

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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 2:43 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

Notice I printed directly on the build plate, as I will do for other designs. And notice the slight 'elephant's foot' around the bottom layers. I can compensate for that effect in the CAD file by adding a rabbet around the bottom perimeter. I am still piddling with the settings for this idea, but I think I can get it pretty close. Nothing fell off and nothing got stuck to the FEP.

I am using my actual project designs as test prints for right now, but I will meander over to the webpages provided earlier.

Robert



The little bit of "elephants foot" around the base of your print is a result of over exposure and bleed through of light.

Your holes on the bottom - how did they measure in comparison to the design?

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 2:13 PM

There have been a lot of responses on this thread since I last posted. I have read (most of) them, and I will add a little more later.

I am working out the parameters for my Photon S printer using Elegoo water-washable resin. I will soon try the Anycubic-supplied resin just to see how it goes and how much it smells.

Here are CAD renderings of a pile cap for one of my bridges. I posted these photos and a coupla others in WPF last weekend. They are exported from AutoCAD 3D as .PDF files and converted to .JPG files for online viewing. The .STL file is a lot clearer and is user-usable in a kind of animated sort of way. But, no way to upload .STL to this forum . . .

 

And a photo of actual results . . .

Notice I printed directly on the build plate, as I will do for other designs. And notice the slight 'elephant's foot' around the bottom layers. I can compensate for that effect in the CAD file by adding a rabbet around the bottom perimeter. I am still piddling with the settings for this idea, but I think I can get it pretty close. Nothing fell off and nothing got stuck to the FEP.

I am using my actual project designs as test prints for right now, but I will meander over to the webpages provided earlier.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 12:58 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

No, I'm pretty sure the layer height is legitamate. It takes me almost 2 hours to print 340 layers give or take, which is what my well car crew walkway treads have. Thats pretty ridiculous if you look at them via the google drive link I posted. They are very short!



Your printers max resolution for layer height is .025mm with a precision of .01mm accuracy on lift height. You could potentially be losing layers setting it at .01mm in Chitu. Just something to take under advisement. You won't really notice any real difference between .01 and .025, other than time. The 15 micron difference is neglible.

I'm actually surprised at how high your exposure times are. My Creality 002H's (which at stock are overpowered for uv exposure, but are modded now) are significantly less with minimal fails. I'm thinking your issues with prints pulling off are your lift/retract speed from the FEP. My lift speeds generally never exceed 50mm/min, with a 5mm lift distance. This allowed me to lower my exposure times without having to overcure to the previous layer. Are you hearing the "drum" sound when your printer lifts?

The more you print, the sooner you'll want to find one of the flexible magnetic build plates for your printer. They're amazing. If you have the ability, lapping the build plate to fix the imperfections on the surface isn't a bad idea. It'll help with prints failing due to coming off.

Also, you may have luck with cleaning your resin vat, and then wiping it gentily with soap and water. Just a damp paper towel (one of the no-lint/no-fuzz ones!!!) with a small drop of dish soap. This will help you relieve some of the adhesion to the FEP. Generally what I do is after cleaning the vat (which isn't often. I leave mine full 24/7, and just put a cover of seran wrap over them when swapping resins and put the next one on) is clean it with IPA, let dry (you'll see the filmy residue) wipe it down with the damp papertowl and dish soap, let dry, and then "polish" it to get rid of the film with a cloth. The dish soap helps resurface the FEP from the resin and UV exposure.

The warping is only an issue once I remove the small parts from the build plate. I've already fixd any warping that happens prior. Everything prints perfectly straight...



You can cure on the build plate, if you're using supports. On thin flimsy parts (think lithophanes, or scale mesh etc) this is an easy way to help prevent warping prior to curing.

I don't use the wash and cure station (I built my own). I'm also a cheapskate and filter my IPA and cure the leftovers to remove the resin from it.

You sound infinitely more knowledgeable on resin 3d printing than I. I am very interested in microstepping. Would you be able to tell me how to do it? I'm always looking for maximum performance in things I buy, and getting that kind of detail from my printer would be great

I'm just an educated idiot who picked this up fall of 2019. With the pandemic it's turned into a decent small business for myself. Most of these printers are just using images displayed from the slicer, with G-Code control for the lift servo controls/speed/timing. If you're familiar with firmware editting, and want to learn all the G-Code control, you can attempt it. If you're not familiar with that, I wouldn't try it.

You mentioned you can also glue your parts like any normal styrene model? What model glues have you found to work? My tamiya liquid cement won't...



I have a small set of files that I use to rough the edges. With some of the resins the plasticizers don't always react with CA. I've had decent luck with the Gorilla Glue superglue, their exoxy stick (when applied with a toothpick to keep it from getting everywhere), and generic two part epoxies. I don't have a huge selection of glues (just random generic CA) that I've tried on ABS-Like and PP-like resins.

A good way to check your overall performance, and to make a whimsical print, are some of the Benchy tugboats. I've got a fleet of them for the kids.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 12:24 PM

GraniteRailroader


I can use a syringe with some of my photo sensitive resin and a UV pen-light and glue up parts. It takes seconds. The bond is the same material (resin) that it's printed from. Or I can glue them like any normal styrene model.

 

 

Interesting. You also came up with the idea of just using the resin to glue the parts. That UV pen idea is quite clever, I've just been using my curing lamp. I'll have to try that.

You mentioned you can also glue your parts like any normal styrene model? What model glues have you found to work? My tamiya liquid cement won't...

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 12:19 PM

No, I'm pretty sure the layer height is legitamate. It takes me almost 2 hours to print 340 layers give or take, which is what my well car crew walkway treads have. Thats pretty ridiculous if you look at them via the google drive link I posted. They are very short!

The exposure is so low because the water washable resin is significantly thinner and lighter than the sample Nova3d resin I was getting...

That said, the program IS written with typos and wording bugs (Chinese to English translation) so it COULD be possible that the decimal is in the incorrect place...

 

The warping is only an issue once I remove the small parts from the build plate. I've already fixd any warping that happens prior. Everything prints perfectly straight...

 

You sound infinitely more knowledgeable on resin 3d printing than I. I am very interested in microstepping. Would you be able to tell me how to do it? I'm always looking for maximum performance in things I buy, and getting that kind of detail from my printer would be great.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 9:10 AM

BNSF UP and others modeler
These are the settings I currently enjoy the most success with on my printer (using elegoo's water washable resin, grey):

Between the above screenshot and the validation matrix, I'm hoping you should be able to make some pretty accurate guesstimates. The bottom exposure time is extremely important for 2 reasons. One, I had issues with my prints dropping it even to 45 seconds. Two, (and this is very important!) don't print you prints (except for the validation matrix) directly on the plate! Even if its flat. The problem is that the 60 second cure time for the first 10 layers can really mess with your prints. The high overexposure will cause what is known as "elephants foot" around the bottom of your print. This also makes it a pain to get off the plate. So what I recommend is short supports as shown below in chitubox:

The support density, as you'll notice, is 60%. The lift height is 1mm. You will have to do a bit of cleanup from the supports and marks they leave on the underside of the model, but its so much easier to remove from the buildplate.

 

I'm shocked at your exposure settings. You might want to check your layer height, because the .01 is well below the minimum supported layer height unless you've modified your printer for microstepping.

One thing that may help with your exposures and the warping/pulling off issues is to rotate your model so that it's tipped up on corner. Try not to keep flat surfaces parralel to the build plate. It'll help with pooling/collected resins in the prints, as well as limiting the amount of pull against the FEP. I'd rotate the well car so that it's raised about 30 degrees along the length of it, and then rotate it 5-10* along the width of the car to prevent any additional pooled resins.


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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 8:44 AM

CAD/CAM

For those interested, Fusion360 is free for home use/non commercial purposes for hobbyists.

If you have any interest in CNC machinery, on top of 3D Printing, Fusion360 is great. It can control most pro-sumer grade CNC machines natively.

Slicers

Chitubox is decent with placing/positioning, hollowing your models, and exporting for printing in most cases. I still like Prusa's slicer for support structures as it's a little more refined and offers a few extra options that seem to be much more optimized over Chitu's offering. Fun fact, is that most of these "cheap" resin printers are using Chitu's hardware and base firmware. It's just rebadged/rebranded and put into the specific manufacturers device.




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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 8:37 AM

PM Railfan

The advantage of a filament over the resin is there are no need for resins, curing, cleaning, extra equipment like UV lights and hi-res LED screens etc etc. Theres no smell either. But when you want to mate these parts to other parts, thats in your adhesive, not the parts your putting together. PLA and ABS will stick to anything.... as long as your GLUE is capable of sticking to BOTH the plastic and the 'anything'.



I will counter with this... FDM printers require more maintenance overall than resin. I can count how many spare parts I need for my "fleet" of FDM printers, versus the parts and bits I need for my "fleet" of resin printers.  I've got 7 FDM printers, 1 DLP, and 3 SLA.


(also, you can bond filament printed parts with new plastic. Same as replacing the glue. Kinda like welding is to metal. This you cant do with resin. They make plastic pens [think hot glue gun for plastic] that are filament based - cant do that with resin. Just run a bead in the corner of two walls and presto in seconds its bonded - quicker than CA even!)



I can use a syringe with some of my photo sensitive resin and a UV pen-light and glue up parts. It takes seconds. The bond is the same material (resin) that it's printed from. Or I can glue them like any normal styrene model.

Now, for paint... check this out. You dont have to paint your filament printed part if you dont want to. Filaments come in colors. And if they dont have the one you want, simply add the color to your filament just before it loads into the heated tip. Your color will mix in with the plastic as its formed thus eliminating the need to paint it. It can be as simple as holding a sharpie to the filament as it feeds into printer - that easy!

In other words, the caboose red additive you hit the filament with is now part of your part. Cut it in half and you see your color is thru and thru. Im pretty sure you cant do this with resin. They may have dies to add to the mix, i dunno. 

You can powder die (some) resins, you can get colored resins, you can mix/match resin to adjust color as needed. I've got a vat that we've added glitter into the produce glittery parts. The options for resin are just as equal to FDM.

After some extreme calibration, adjusting the UV LED driver on one of my printers, and modifying the firmware, I can microstep down to .015mm layer height reliably. I will say that my resin printers provide a level of detail greater than what my FDM printers offer for "most" things.

 

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Monday, January 18, 2021 3:52 PM

For general consumption, I have posted a modified version of the PM below, which I suspect others will find useful.

 

The sun might work for you, but I found that at least with the sample resin that came with my printer, it tended to cure the print with a brown tint and a bit of warping. I'm not sure that will happen with other resins, but thats just a heads up.

The validation matrix/test print that I initially used and found to be helpful was in the video description of this tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GwPEJ8Lq8

And here is the github link to the file itself:

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=r9GwPEJ8Lq8&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbFFIMWptWjRhdjM0WGw1cV9SZjRQVUhIZmw2Z3xBQ3Jtc0tsWVZETVRBQ3FxdzlTQU95NGRmZEw4VFI1Q2xhYmZzY2JuRDExVFd1TVJnSDFXbEVyellBV1oxMEY4aC1yVVF1cTZ1MjlzQ1BYOUxfd2tHeHVMV3BMTExqN0JnUGs0THoyTnFGTWI4YV9UOWdVR3hpWQ%3D%3D&event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FPhotonsters%2FResin-exposure-finder-v2%2Freleases%2Fdownload%2FBETA_2.1%2FResinXP2-ValidationMatrix_200701.stl

These are the settings I currently enjoy the most success with on my printer (using elegoo's water washable resin, grey):

Between the above screenshot and the validation matrix, I'm hoping you should be able to make some pretty accurate guesstimates. The bottom exposure time is extremely important for 2 reasons. One, I had issues with my prints dropping it even to 45 seconds. Two, (and this is very important!) don't print you prints (except for the validation matrix) directly on the plate! Even if its flat. The problem is that the 60 second cure time for the first 10 layers can really mess with your prints. The high overexposure will cause what is known as "elephants foot" around the bottom of your print. This also makes it a pain to get off the plate. So what I recommend is short supports as shown below in chitubox:

The support density, as you'll notice, is 60%. The lift height is 1mm. You will have to do a bit of cleanup from the supports and marks they leave on the underside of the model, but its so much easier to remove from the buildplate.

I understand concerns about internet security. I am equally wary of such things. As such, I will post the google drive link to the OBJ file I designed in chitubox for model railroaders to use. It has 4 of the well car parts I've designed for my model, with supports already added. You should be able to view it in chitubox and your printer's slicer, and also print it without further modification. The main things you are looking for is to see if the hexagonal safety tread came out clean and if the supports held the part properly. The fault of the former is overexposure, and of the latter, underexposure. If you choose to cure these prints, you will probably have to work with some warping as they are so thin. Just tape them down to a transparent ruler.

Here is the link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yEBVnJYRy35Il41L7cRhaeNaPudhz5pV/view?usp=sharing

Let me know if you guys found this helpful, I had to find it all out the hard way and theres still improvements I'm working on.

 

 

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, January 16, 2021 8:19 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

Post or PM me about dailing in resin with your printer. I have 2 files I highly recommend, between those 2 I got perfect results after multiple trials.

The resin arrived this afternoon. Only two days late. Not bad.

I sent you a PM regarding printer settings and a .STL test pattern file.

Thanks.

Robert

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, January 15, 2021 6:11 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

I will hold off until the water-washable stuff arrives. Kinda hard to do with the new toy just sitting over there . . .

Robert

 

I absloutely feel this. Unfortunately, for me, I couldn't wait to find the correct liquid to rinse of my first prints, so I used the nova3d resin and tried to rinse it with water. Big mistake. I wished I had waited.

 

Meanwhile, you should check out grabcad. They have absolutely AMAZING models for free. I found the hands down best shipping container model on there, and once I converted the file I found it was 1:1 scale so all I had to do was scale it to HO and I had an absolutely perfect HO scale shipping container. They also have aircraft models and loads of other stuff. IMO, its better than thingyverse.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Friday, January 15, 2021 3:20 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

Where did you order you elegoo resin from? I got mine (1 liter of grey) off amazon for $40 and shipping was like 3 days or less...

I ordered the goo from Amazing-dot-com-slash-Prime because of the free two-day shipping. Two days of shipping might be true, but they always seem to forget to add in the three or four days the package sits on the floor in Denver or Salt Lake City.

I will hold off until the water-washable stuff arrives. Kinda hard to do with the new toy just sitting over there . . .

Robert

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, January 15, 2021 2:37 PM

YMMV. I'll submit this. Yes, you can thereotically use the provided resin and then clean the vat out entirely BUT

As in my experience with Nova3d's resin, its a pain to clean because non water washable resin is sticky. I also had some problems with my denatured alchohol (because IPA is hard to get, people are STILL making hand sanitizerConfused) fogging the FEP film a bit, and I could never quite get all the resin out of all the nooks and crannies between the FEP film and the frame. And resiny glove/fingerprints on the underside of the vat are big trouble. Your biggest concern here isn't switching resins. Its getting the old resin out without goofing up your vat somehow. Thats why I never wanted to clean my vat when I was using the origional resin. It would mess it up for my future prints, even using the same resin.

If you were to use the stock resin and clean it out for elegoo's, your only good bet IMO is to have an entire bucket of IPA or whatever to dunk it in. Which is why water washable resin is so practical for this...

Where did you order you elegoo resin from? I got mine (1 liter of grey) off amazon for $40 and shipping was like 3 days or less...

 

Funny you mentioned emailing .STL files. I had one I was going to send to you of my creation that proved immensely helpful in dialing in my resin...

 

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Friday, January 15, 2021 2:22 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

As I own elegoo's water washable resin, can confirm that no IPA is necassary.

Your curing station idea is great. Check this UV lamp out:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YGN2QGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought it and it works great in my cheapo tinfoil curing box. It also claims to emit 405nm wavelengths, which is the same wavelength that resin 3d printers use...

Post or PM me about dailing in resin with your printer. I have 2 files I highly recommend, between those 2 I got perfect results after multiple trials.

Looking foward to seeing your results!

That looks like the same lamp I ordered. There were several listed from various Amazon Stores, but I suspect they are all the exact same item at slightly different prices. It should be here next Tuesday Jan 19.

The Elegoo resin has not yet arrived. Was scheduled to be here yesterday the 14th. Tracking info says it has been in Salt Lake City since Tuesday evening the 12th. USPS.

I haven't opened the Anycubic resin supplied with the printer. If I did open it and use it in the FEP vat, will I be able to clean it out entirely and use the water-washable stuff when and if it ever arrives? I'm thinking about getting a second vat anyway, even if I use the Elegoo resin exclusively.

I uploaded a coupla renderings to the WPF thread of the first object I plan to test print. I never seem to have any photos available for that thread, and I'm always happy to contribute a little something. I can PM you about the details and possibly email .STL files as well.

Robert 

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:09 PM

As I own elegoo's water washable resin, can confirm that no IPA is necassary.

Your curing station idea is great. Check this UV lamp out:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YGN2QGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought it and it works great in my cheapo tinfoil curing box. It also claims to emit 405nm wavelengths, which is the same wavelength that resin 3d printers use...

Post or PM me about dailing in resin with your printer. I have 2 files I highly recommend, between those 2 I got perfect results after multiple trials.

Looking foward to seeing your results!

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:04 PM

My Anycubic Photon S 3D resin printer arrived today via UPS, a day early. I also ordered a liter of Elegoo water-washable resin (gray). It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow via USPS.

I have reconsidered and will put off ordering the Anycubic wash/cure station for now. That particular station has two features that might make it worthwhile, despite the moderately pricey price.

Using 91% isopropyl alcohol or 99% ethanol (denatured) from a dropper-top bottle can be a little irritating at times. Fumes. But using large quantities in an open vat could be even worse. Storage, and repeatedly transferring to and from storage, is another concern. The wash/cure station would lessen those concerns and make cleaning a simple matter of setting a time and pushing a button and make storing a simple matter of snapping down the gasket lid.

But, if the water washable resin is as good and as convenient as advertised, the need for mass quantities of alcohol is greatly reduced or eliminated entirely.

The curing feature of the store-bought station is also a neat and tidy convenience. But I think I can get a twenty-dollar uv lamp and set up a perfectly usable home-brew system. I have a three-gallon shiny stainless steel bucket in mind for the chamber with the lamp mounted on a special-built plywood lid. Shiny inside to scatter and reflect the uv rays all over the place; and a closed lid to keep the rays inside to protect human eyeballs and skin. Should work.

I'll post more as I go along.

Robert 

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Monday, January 11, 2021 5:20 PM

Chitubox will not be helpful for many printers in terms of saving your slice to the correct file extension. It doesn't support Nova3d's either. You don't need chitubox to "have" your printer either to get good results. Just do all your supports and flipping in chitubox, and select "save as." You can choose STL or OBJ, but I've been finding out that STL tends to cause more fits with resin 3d printer slicing softwares than OBJ. I recommend just sticking with OBJ. Then you can import that into the Anycubic slicer to slice it and thats it.

I don't know how you got the concensus on cura for resin 3d printing slicer, maybe you are just generalizing for traditional printers and resin 3d printers? Cura won't help you with resin 3d printing...

Don't spend your money on Anycubic's curing station unless its $20 or less, because thats how much my powerful UV lamp of Amazon cost me and it works great. I just put it above a box coated with tinfoil.

Another couple things. I HIGHLY recommend not even using Anycubic's resin if you can wait. Buy elegoo's water washable resin. The clean up is so much easier. Believe me, its so worth the switch. But if you really can't wait and use Anycubic's resin, here are 3 peices of advice. 1, you don't need to empty out and clean your resin vat after each print unless it failed or you suspect there are little cured bits floating around. I haven't clean my new vat since I replaced the FEP film. 2, If you can't find rubbing alcohol to clean your prints, buy denatured aclohol from a hardware store. Works great. 3, when you DO clean your resin vat and FEP film, never, and I repeat, never allow resin, fingers, or cleaning cloth to touch the underside of the vat where the FEP film is. That will likely result in frustrating smudges that will also transfer to your LCD screen. Even if you ARE lucky enough to clean every last smudge off both surfaces, its a big pain and you might have to get a new FEP film if you don't want to risk substandard prints.

If you want, you can ask me more questions about things I do in chitubox to optimize prints to save you a lot of headache... looking foward to welcoming another model railroader to the resin 3d printing community!

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Monday, January 11, 2021 1:47 PM

Okay, the adventure begins . . .

I ordered a 3D Resin Printer. It should be here on Thursday. Anycubic Photon S.

I've seen a few unboxing videos, so I have a pretty good idea what accessories are included and what accessories are recommended. I think I have the basics covered. I haven't ordered the Anycubic cleaning and curing station (yet), but it looks pretty good and I will probably go that route. In the meanwhile, I will make due with a tupperware pickle basket and a south-facing windowsill. I live in the high desert with deep blue cloudless skies all day (they even sing songs about it), so lack of direct sunlight is not an issue.

My question is about slicing software. The online consensus is that the included software is pretty weak. Additional online consensus is that Chitubox and Cura are the best third-party slicers, but apparently there are issues with Chitubox and the Photon S is not listed in the printer selection for Cura.

I'm not talking about CAD design software. I am solidly proficient using AutoCAD Civil 3D and AutoCAD Fusion360 to generate accurate and detailed .STL files. What I need is reliable info regarding the post-processing slicing software. I will probably use the included package, weak as it is, to get started.

More questions later regarding cleaning solutions and curing times and exposure and whatnot.

Thanks.

Robert

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, January 8, 2021 9:31 PM

I'll answer all your common questions.

Elfin vs Photon. First, there seems to be a reason Luke Towan switched from the Proton to the Elfin. I don't know what it is, but I'm glad I waited. From a printer standpoint, the elfin is better. The buildplate is a very sturdy metal design and it comes pre leveled. This is HUGE. I'm glad I didn't have to bother with that. The touchscreen and the wifi/ethernet capabilities are also big advantages. From a software standpoint, Nova3d uses a pesky proprietary file extension, which also forces you to use their special slicer. The autosupport feature and most everything else are pathetic, I pretty much only use it to actually slice my file. Any other prep I do in chitubox and then export as an OBJ. But don't get stuck between these two either, there's lots of other good options too, such as the Bene and Elegoo 3d printers. Do some homework and see if you can't find something even better/cheaper/bigger.

 

There are tons of resins available. They will all have advantages such as low odor, better strength, eco friendly features, colors, etc. Each one will have different optimal cure times which you can figure out with a benchmark test print (trial and error). The most important thing to note is that you do NOT need to only buy the resin made by the printer manufacturer. This is marketing, not printer safety. The resin that came with the Elfin is garbage. Please don't even use it. You get a sample with your printer, sell it on ebay for some money back. It cures brittle, stinks, and is very sticky. The only thing that came out nice with that resin was the sample print. I personally gave water washable resin a shot and am not going back unless I'm doing something super special. This stuff is amazing. I bought elegoo's resin on amazon. Its $40 a liter and cleanup is heavenly compared to the other resin. Its also thinner, so dripping the excess off the build plate and curing times are much faster. Absolutely recommend for just about everything, and so do many of the review videos I watched prior to purchase.

 

For designing 3d models, I use sketchup. Thats how I desinged my 48' well car and all it's parts. The online version is free, but a 3d design program in a browser is a poor design choice. So I did some digging and found that the downloadable free version (latest release before costing money was 2017) can be had from trimble's archives. Its called sketchup make. Tinkercad isn't really good for people who are super picky about scale fidelity and accuracy, You mostly start with basic shapes and go from there, from what I've seen online. I'm not sure what can be had for the budget you described, but I do know its good. Fusion 360 and similar mid level 3d design programs might interest you.

Gluing/painting. Luke Towan states that his resin models take both of these things quite well. I personally have not tried much of either except spraypainting, the reason being I have been heavily focused on making and troubleshooting the prints. The spraypainting worked fine. And for gluing parts together so far, I have cheated and just applied a bit of resin exactly like I would glue and then curing it under a UV light. Works insanely great.

And one other thing for those curious. Once cured, this stuff sands exceptionally well. A good rule of thumb is to basically treat your cured resin parts exactly like commercial parts. Remove supports/sprues, sand, paint, glue to model, voila! Its a skillset I'm sure many of you are way better versed in than I.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

  • Member since
    January 2013
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Posted by PM Railfan on Friday, January 8, 2021 8:19 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

What glues and adhesives are used with the kind of plastic resins discussed here?

After cleaning and curing, can these resin detail parts be mixed with and joined to parts fabricated from acrylic, styrene, or ABS? What about vinyl or polyethylene? What about wood or chipboard?

What about painting and/or weathering?

Thanks.

Robert 

 

Robert)

I cant speak for resin printing but for informational purposes to those looking for the first time at 3d printing, i can answer the 'filament' type of 3d printing questions you asked.

The PLA and ABS plastic i use works very well with CA adhesives. I have models 3 years old now that have no pull aparts, warps, or melt downs. So nothing new needed in your shop in the way of CA adhesives for filament printing.

The advantage of a filament over the resin is there are no need for resins, curing, cleaning, extra equipment like UV lights and hi-res LED screens etc etc. Theres no smell either. But when you want to mate these parts to other parts, thats in your adhesive, not the parts your putting together. PLA and ABS will stick to anything.... as long as your GLUE is capable of sticking to BOTH the plastic and the 'anything'.

(also, you can bond filament printed parts with new plastic. Same as replacing the glue. Kinda like welding is to metal. This you cant do with resin. They make plastic pens [think hot glue gun for plastic] that are filament based - cant do that with resin. Just run a bead in the corner of two walls and presto in seconds its bonded - quicker than CA even!)

Lastly, painting and weathering. Imma leave the weathering part untouched as i dont do that on my models. Plastic is pourous so theres a very good chance your powder type weathering applications will stick to both resin AND filament types.

Now, for paint... check this out. You dont have to paint your filament printed part if you dont want to. Filaments come in colors. And if they dont have the one you want, simply add the color to your filament just before it loads into the heated tip. Your color will mix in with the plastic as its formed thus eliminating the need to paint it. It can be as simple as holding a sharpie to the filament as it feeds into printer - that easy!

In other words, the caboose red additive you hit the filament with is now part of your part. Cut it in half and you see your color is thru and thru. Im pretty sure you cant do this with resin. They may have dies to add to the mix, i dunno.

Either way, paint will stick to plastic, both. But this is going to be trial and error as not everyone uses the same paints or techniques. So advantage both resin and filament here. But not needed for filament types. 

Hope this info helps.

 

PMR

 

PS: did i forget to mention there are even wood based filaments available - thus eliminating the need to glue to wood.... just make the part in wood! (along with other filament types - metal, food, rubber, etc etc)

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, January 8, 2021 6:20 PM

Kathy Millat has done a couple videos of resin printing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRSusYyrwMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_QF2fPuaE

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Friday, January 8, 2021 6:08 PM

What glues and adhesives are used with the kind of plastic resins discussed here?

After cleaning and curing, can these resin detail parts be mixed with and joined to parts fabricated from acrylic, styrene, or ABS? What about vinyl or polyethylene? What about wood or chipboard?

What about painting and/or weathering?

Thanks.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 8, 2021 5:49 PM

I got the Longer Orange 10 for CHristmas. Haven't got it set up yet. Slightly smaller build area, but it's also under $200. Plenty big for detail parts, and big enough for the main reason I wanted a 3D printer - roofs to convert open hoppers to covered hoppers. 

 One thing with resin prints is they have to be washed, adn then further UV cured before use. Anycubic has a nice wash and cure station with light shield (don't look into UV light!) which I will probably get, though it costs as much as the printer. You can make your own cure unit with a bunch of UV LEDs, but again - be careful to seal it up so the UV doesn't leak out where it might shine in your or even a pet's eyes.

 I'm considering trying 3rd PlanIt to draw somethign in since I am already very familiar with it. Depends on how good the DWG/DFX export actually is. 

                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, January 8, 2021 4:48 PM

RR_Mel
I’ve been using DesignCAD or its predecessor since 1985 and I’m very happy with it.

Thanks, Mel. I'll take a good look at it Yes

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, January 8, 2021 4:07 PM

gmpullman

I began playing with TinkerCad. Is there a suggested 3D CAD program out there? I don't need anything in the $4K range but I don't mind paying sometihing in the $1-200 range for a decent program (I guess they're called apps, now?).

Thanks, Ed

 

I’ve been using DesignCAD or its predecessor since 1985 and I’m very happy with it.

https://www.turbocad.com/designcad/designcad-3d-max.html

It is like all CAD programs, there is a fairly steep learning curve to your first shot at it.

 This is done in DesignCAD by Shaky Mel



Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, January 8, 2021 2:57 PM

Is there any advantage of the Elfin over the Photon?

I'm about an inch away from deciding on a model resin printer and I'm trying to sort out available options.

Also, do you have any input on what different resins are available? I see some cure as a translucent green while others are opaque gray?

I began playing with TinkerCad. Is there a suggested 3D CAD program out there? I don't need anything in the $4K range but I don't mind paying sometihing in the $1-200 range for a decent program (I guess they're called apps, now?).

Thanks, Ed

  • Member since
    May 2010
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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, January 8, 2021 2:44 PM

Those were the prices I was seeing, too.  I didn't see any from the same company for $500.00 unless thats their commercial printer.

Interesting.  

Thanks,

Mike.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, January 8, 2021 12:25 PM

Have you printed any throttle holders?  Thingaverse has several different ones.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    March 2018
  • 688 posts
Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, January 8, 2021 12:18 PM

I'm printing HO scale BN 48' well cars and detail parts thereof, and soon, some Athearn/Walthers detail level shipping containers. I found these container files online and was blown away with the detail for them being 100% free! I have one scaled down and just need to do the rest, then I have to tweak them heavily so I can get them to stay on the build plate (turns out the underside of shipping containers scaled down have little to no material to adhere to the build plate...).

My printer was $200 off of amazon, which was a real steal considering the retial of $500+...

If you bought that and a liter of resin you'd pay around $250 when all's said and done. Print a few locomotive shells, shipping containers, trucks, etc and the printer quickly pays for itself. I calculated that my well car body cost me well under a dollar to resin print! If you include the teeny detail parts you'd be just under a dollar for a full undecorated model. And undecorated well car models from commerical sources are at least $15 to $20 a pop...

 

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, January 8, 2021 8:20 AM

It looks like a very reasonably priced printer.  What are some of things your printing?

Just cuious, and interested, at that price. 

Mike.

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