I really do love Broadway Limited Imports large variety of HO scale steam locomotives they have made, and continue to make. While they are well designed in terms of their gearing and detail, their own name of decoders, being called Paragon, seem to be lacking in functionality, as I have been told Paragon 2 is somewhat better then Paragon 3.Its not problem installing a better decoder, but I wonder why BLI has not considered turning to use a better decoder, such as Lokisound or Tusmami 2. If they did, they would not have to deal with negative decoder reviews, various complaints and having the same locomotives they sent out to paying customers, come back for repairs. Altough the later does keep their repair workers in need.Maybe its because its a risk for BLI to move to upgrading their decoders from their own brand, as they have already estabished it as a part of their brand?
https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/
Cheers, Ed
gmpullman https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/ Cheers, Ed
Why doesn't BLI use better connectors bewteen the engines and tenders?
Why doesn't BLI make wiring information available to the end user for the asking so they can remove the decoder easily?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Engi1487So, what is this suppose to mean?
Maybe the Ford Pinto fiasco was before your time. Read the article. Ford knew of their defective design and weighed the options of redesigning and recalling the cars to eliminate (or reduce) the hazard or "roll the dice" and deal with the fall out.
I posted that link to make a comparison to BLI sticking with their design (I seem to recall they bought a QSI licence or maybe even bought the patents from QSI?) and they're dealing with the fallout. They DO have an investment to recoup and buying what is, essentially, a competitors decoder to install in their locomotives will not make their bottom line and already thin margin look any better.
I recently went through a decoder issue with a brand new PRR K4. The tech assured me that Version H, has all new motor control architecture and the programming problems are gone for good.
I said that may be true but I sure have a lemon here. They sent a replacement and it acted the very same way. IF I reset the decoder it runs fine on address 3.
IF I put the engine number in (or any four-digit address) as the address the motor control gets completely scrambled. I've had this problem with 8 out of the last 12 Paragon3 decoders.
The pickup was awful on the last several BLI engines I bought as well. Engines would stop dead at any given time, usually, but not always at a turnout that I've tested to be fully powered. Tech said he never heard of that problem. Quite a few reviews I've read mention the same issue. BLI has added a keep alive and socket on the newest version of their P3 decoders and they now offer their "GO Pack" capacitor bundle.
I don't think they're about to scrap their Paragon line but I DO believe they had better redesign from the ground up. These issues have made me think twice before I'll buy any more of their Paragon3 engines.
Good Luck, Ed
FWIW, I have yet to get a QSI to fail on me. I have had one decoder fail in all the time I have been in the hobby, and that was a LokSound in a PCM Y6b. Of all the QSI decoders I own, at least five were placed into locomotives prior to 2005.
It would be very frustrating to have so many decoder failures, both for the customer and for BLI. I'm sure BLI is doing what they can now that they're getting back so many locos (the real percentage of returns is going to remain a mystery. It might be small.). My hope is that they get a grip soon. I haven't been impressed with some of the sound files on the P2 and P2 issues. The sounds are of good quality, though, and the motion control is very good.
I have 7 Broadway steam locos, I have 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steam locos.
I run DC, and have removed all the decoders........
And even at that I have had more problems with Broadway locos than with Bachmann locos.........
Kevin is right, why can't they make them easily convertible to DC like all my Bachmann locos were?
You mat consider it a big selection, but it is mostly a big selection of BIG, rare, flashy, "famous" locos.
I want a believable roster of locos for my railroad, that's why only a few Broadway locos fit the bill.
Sheldon
Look, I was quick to criticize the P3 decoders on these forums this spring when my son's brand new BLI P3 UP 3985 4-6-6-4 failed right away, within a week. However, Seneca at Train Service Depot had the engine repaired and back in my hands in about two weeks flat and in perfect condition without any marks on it. A new upgraded motor (obtained directly from BLI) and the new upgraded P3 decoder (also from BLI) have the engine running as well as any I have ever owned or even seen in my life. We also bypassed the repair backlog! I will put that engine up against anybody's brass articulated, too, or any other model, for performance with a long train behind it.
BLI has already upgraded both the P3 decoder AND the motor. The new motor has much much more torque. There is nothing wrong with them now. Some early P3 engines on the market may require the new decoder and the motor. They will replace them for free.
Also, decoder and motor problems are NOT unique to BLI. The Rapido sound module or motherboard is currently killing motors in some of their engines at too high a rate. I have both good filtered plain dc power and the NCE Powercab dcc. My solution has been to only run Rapido diesels in plain dc. For me they have not fried any (more) boards or motors since I stopped running them in dcc. Also Rapido is advertising that new engines coming next have the upgraded motor.
I should point out that the Rapido plain dc units with the previous motor are outperforming my Atlas diesels. The Rapido engines are quieter with slightly more torque and pulling power than my latest run Atlas C-420. I just acquired a mint 2003 run (from when Atlas was arguably the best) Atlas C-425. It is the quietest diesel I have, but the Rapido RS-11 pulls better, and the Rapido B36-7 pulls notably better. So in plain dc, if you get through the first 2 hours without incident, the Rapido diesels appear to be just fine. Failures if they happen tend to happen right away. No plain dc units have failed for me out of 7 purchased this fall, but others have had a few fail.
I will close by saying that everybody has had recent motor issues. Just a couple years ago Atlas, Bowser, and Intermountain ALL had to replace their motors. They share one factory together and were all using the same or virtually the same motors. Fortunately the weak motors, which can run ok (they lack some torque and won't pull as well), were limited to a few product runs. The newer engines run much better. Also the increased features that so many people want are causing the electronic bugs. A motor that is great in plain dc I am told may not be once a decoder and motherboard or sound module are added. A different specification motor may be required for dcc/sound operation.
Refer to the Atlas Rescue Forum for more detailed motor test results that were and still are being posted by llxlocomotives. He is testing several currently, both vintage and current production. He installs them in test diesels to get consistent results on a layout.
John
it's just a whole lot easier [for me] to NOT even consider BLI locomotives as part of my roster ...
i don't need the extra grief, and beleive me, it's there. lol
Why has Athearn for years and years installed crappy incandescent bulbs in their locos that burn out within hours of being placed on the layout?
Rich
Alton Junction
wvg_cait's just a whole lot easier [for me] to NOT even consider BLI locomotives as part of my roster .
Same here.
Mike.
My You Tube
richhotrain Why has Athearn for years and years installed crappy incandescent bulbs in their locos that burn out within hours of being placed on the layout? Rich
I agree that was a problem, a problem I think they have finally fixed.
But interestingly, none of those crappy incandescent bulbs have burned out on my layout, powered by 13.8 volts DC thru the factory lighting board.
So yes there was some sort of design disconnect between the lighting board, the lamps and the decoders.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Why has Athearn for years and years installed crappy incandescent bulbs in their locos that burn out within hours of being placed on the layout? Rich I agree that was a problem, a problem I think they have finally fixed. But interestingly, none of those crappy incandescent bulbs have burned out on my layout, powered by 13.8 volts DC thru the factory lighting board. So yes there was some sort of design disconnect between the lighting board, the lamps and the decoders. Sheldon
Why...Athearn...incandescent bulbs?
Athearn switched to LED lights in the most recent releases, going back almost 2 years now. Both Genesis units and Ready-to-Roll units (SD-60's and Sound Value series SD40/SD40U's) started coming in with LED lights.
Marketing people have sales target prices that they want to hit. Some manufacturers choose or chose to cut certain corners to hit those marketing target prices. Beyond that, I have no idea. However, they are LED now.
Always read the fine print with new releases.
PRR8259 Why...Athearn...incandescent bulbs? Athearn switched to LED lights in the most recent releases, going back almost 2 years now.
Athearn switched to LED lights in the most recent releases, going back almost 2 years now.
Hi Rich--
I wrote what I wrote to clarify for the uninformed, that's all.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
PRR8259 Hi Rich-- I wrote what I wrote to clarify for the uninformed, that's all. Happy Thanksgiving! John
Happy Thanksgiving!
I only have one AThearn RTR loco with bulbs, it has 4 of them 2 in each end, none have burned out yet on DCC. But it just stands to reason that running full power 100% of the time like the do on DCC is going to shorten the life vs running most of the time at 50% or less when using DC.
A bigger problem is locos that have higher voltage, higher watt bulbs in them. On DC< at 50% most of the time, they don;t get warm. But DCC is full power all the time. They can get hot enough to melt the plastic around the headlight.
This isn;t a new thing - when they came out with high frequency lighting, they had the same problem. Full voltage to the bulb, 100% of the time. The only saving grace 60+ years ago was that mmany times the headlight casting, if not the whole loco shell, were metal, so it wouldn't melt.
BLI has far too much invested in their proprietary decoders to switch. ANd apparantly the cost for repairs and the cost in customer retention has not exceeded the cost of switching to something else. Remember they started out using a third party decoder, but QSI was slow in updating and took forever to release a new version decoder. And now they have Rolling Thunder witht he wireless broadcast of the low frequency sounds from the decoder to a stationary subwoofer. They's have to share that with some other decoder manufacturer to add it, so the BLI version of say an ESU decoder would stil be proprietary and not a standard decoder. Given that no other decoder manufacturer has thus far (at least publically) attempted to create a competetive system to Rolling Thunder, it would appear they are uninsterested or think it not worth the effort to design for limited sales, so it's not likely any would be interested in licensing it from BLI and incorporating it in their full line of decoders.
I do think BLI could sell a lot more locos if they offered DC only versions with a stadnard plug for a decoder. Not only the DC die hards, but more DCC users would buy them. Their locos aren't poorly made, and they've done some things that are otherwise only available in brass. The problems are almost always with the decoders.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a few BLI locomotives. E8A/B set Amtrak Phase I and F3 A/B set with a individual F3A NYC full lightning strike.
Although I don't have problems with them yet, because no layout but had a test run with them.
I'm that kind of person who doesn't like grab irons, lift rings and other etc on locomotives because it be easier to break.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
richhotrain PRR8259 Hi Rich-- I wrote what I wrote to clarify for the uninformed, that's all. Happy Thanksgiving! John And to you, John. I am just feeling hostile this morning watching a dead bird being shoved into the oven. Rich
And to you, John. I am just feeling hostile this morning watching a dead bird being shoved into the oven.
I'm eating ham thank you.
I'm sure my DC system and the lack of a decoder has EVERYTHING to do with it.
First, I use a DC system within the voltage parameters set by the "old" NMRA standards.
Without trying to get into a long technical electrical engineering analysis, I think the combination of the factory lighting board and the output from the decoder for lighting, was simply on the edge of too much voltage. Combined with the fact that different DCC systems, and different booster setups, run, or can be run at various voltages.
And lets not forget that the DCC "signal" carrier voltage is not really AC or DC, in their pure sense. That can effect how voltages are seen by various components.
Prime example, I use the Train Engineer radio throttles. They are high frequency PWM like the motor control from a decoder. DC lighting circuits for constant brightness and directional lighting see the smallest throttle setting as nearly full voltage - because the pulses are full voltage.
The result, lights come on full brighness long before the loco moves in nearly all cases. Just like switching them on in DCC but without the extra button to push
I prefer LED's but I'm not fixing things that are not broke, so my older Athearn and Bachmann locos with incandesent lamps are just fine.
rrinker I do think BLI could sell a lot more locos if they offered DC only versions with a stadnard plug for a decoder. Not only the DC die hards, but more DCC users would buy them. Their locos aren't poorly made, and they've done some things that are otherwise only available in brass. The problems are almost always with the decoders.
mbinsewi wvg_ca it's just a whole lot easier [for me] to NOT even consider BLI locomotives as part of my roster . Same here. Mike.
wvg_ca
I can certainly understand why some would say that, and I have written some scathing comments on here about BLI's decoders in the past. However, I have to be honest and give credit where credit is due. I defy you to go anywhere, usually defined as brasstrains.com, and find ANY engine (brass, hybrid, plastic whatever) under $1000 that will offer the same good appearance, detailing, factory lighting, very chip resistant high quality factory paint, and generally good performance, as what BLI offers with some of their brass hybrids. You just cannot. There were some Railworks/Crown Custom Imports New Haven 4-6-2's (containing great Boo Rim Precision gearboxes) selling in the $600 price range that were new old stock (after the importer passed away) but they are gone now--sold out. I've spent many hours combing the internet for good steam power and I know what is out there and what is just not (excluding the beat up old brass on Ebay that can be a crapshoot and require considerable fiddling to make usable).
Now, some folks only want to spend $150 or less for a steam engine. If that is the case, then you need to stick to Bachmann or Athearn Roundhouse series or...idk?
If you want steam power, what else are you going to do? MTH is currently producing their final steam locos EVER, and YES, I have two monster DM&IR 2-8-8-4's coming, one for me and basically one for my son.
Contrary to perhaps Sheldon's opinion BLI does sell a lot of "smaller" locos. There are 2-8-0's and 4-6-2's and 2-8-2's of many roadnames, and they make run after run of them. To me, that is "small", but possibly not small enough for some folks.
Also, it actually costs every bit as much money to tool up and make a small Southern Pacific 0-6-0 switcher as a much larger engine. All the steps are the same. That (and the complex multi-color paint schemes) is why the Challenger Imports SP 0-6-0's made many years ago now are $2000 engines. I am told nobody can produce a new 0-6-0 in full on brass now for less than about $1500--and that means even to do small steam as a brass hybrid is going to be cost prohibitive. You have to generate enough sales, which in brass is at least 100 units (according to Jim Bennett who is friends with the owner of Boo Rim) to get made. The problem with that is there are very few "correct" "road specific" engines out there that will generate 100 units in sales. There just are not enough buyers of steam power anymore.
Rapido has found that out: reservations for their small Canadian steam engines were underwhelming, and at least one is on indefinite "hold" pending more reservations, and these are far from being $150 engines, more like $450 street sale price.
Challengers, Big Boys, other monster articulateds, and big surviving passenger 4-8-4's just plain sell. Other steam power--there just aren't usually enough people willing to buy them to generate enough sales numbers anymore. However BLI can continue cranking out USRA steamers till the cows come home; they are already tooled.
Disclaimer: Paul, I know there are New Haven fans that will argue this, but New Haven is likely an exception and far from the rule.
There are D&RGW 2-8-2's and 4-6-2's coming in brass (they shared a common boiler) but the actual as delivered price is going to be above $2000 regardless of what some online price quotes may say (they are outdated). This, again, is according to Jim Bennett, Moderator of one of the brass forums over on Facebook.
Happy turkey day to all-
PRR8259 I defy you to go anywhere, usually defined as brasstrains.com, and find ANY engine (brass, hybrid, plastic whatever) under $1000 that will offer the same good appearance, detailing, factory lighting, very chip resistant high quality factory paint, and generally good performance, as what BLI offers with some of their brass hybrids.
I agree there. Even after rebuilding the drive, adding a decoder and speaker and even trying to come close to a factory painting and lettering job a brass engine is still a fussy thing to contend with.
All of my recent Broadway purchases have been with the caveat that if I can not get the factory decoder/motor to function properly, with or without warranty service, I factor in that I will probably be installing another manufacturers decoder some time down the road. I've already swapped out probably a dozen Paragon/QSI decoders over the past few years.
Still, BLI makes a great product and fills a need for at least some "desirable" models. Their service department has always been helpful to me and they have always tried to get the repairs made to the best of their ability.
I hope they simply decide to abandon the maligned "Paragon" architecture and provide a reliable decoder in future releases.
richhotrain rrinker I do think BLI could sell a lot more locos if they offered DC only versions with a stadnard plug for a decoder. Not only the DC die hards, but more DCC users would buy them. Their locos aren't poorly made, and they've done some things that are otherwise only available in brass. The problems are almost always with the decoders.
Agreed.
Two of my seven "BLI" products are original PCM Reading T-1's sold as DC models.
All my other BLI locos now sport Bachmann tenders with no sound or DCC.
Changing the tenders gave the locos a family look with the rest of my roster.
I have two heavy Mikes with Bachmann long haul tenders, two N&W Class A's with tenders from C&O 2-8-4's, and a heavy Pacific with an oil long haul tender from a Bachmann 2-10-2.
The Class A tenders are similar in style to my Mikes freelanced from 2-8-4's (which have the smaller NKP version of that tender) and also are similar in style to the Reading T-1 tenders.
The others are USRA long tenders match most of my fleet of Mountains, other Pacifics and 2-10-2's.
BLI has missed a lot of business by not offering DC models, by not being able to make small proto specific changes on the Mike and Pacific, and by putting sound ahead of detail in some cases.
gmpullman I hope they simply decide to abandon the maligned "Paragon" architecture and provide a reliable decoder in future releases.
PRR8259 mbinsewi wvg_ca it's just a whole lot easier [for me] to NOT even consider BLI locomotives as part of my roster . Same here. Mike. I can certainly understand why some would say that, and I have written some scathing comments on here about BLI's decoders in the past. However, I have to be honest and give credit where credit is due. I defy you to go anywhere, usually defined as brasstrains.com, and find ANY engine (brass, hybrid, plastic whatever) under $1000 that will offer the same good appearance, detailing, factory lighting, very chip resistant high quality factory paint, and generally good performance, as what BLI offers with some of their brass hybrids. You just cannot. There were some Railworks/Crown Custom Imports New Haven 4-6-2's (containing great Boo Rim Precision gearboxes) selling in the $600 price range that were new old stock (after the importer passed away) but they are gone now--sold out. I've spent many hours combing the internet for good steam power and I know what is out there and what is just not (excluding the beat up old brass on Ebay that can be a crapshoot and require considerable fiddling to make usable). Now, some folks only want to spend $150 or less for a steam engine. If that is the case, then you need to stick to Bachmann or Athearn Roundhouse series or...idk? If you want steam power, what else are you going to do? MTH is currently producing their final steam locos EVER, and YES, I have two monster DM&IR 2-8-8-4's coming, one for me and basically one for my son. Contrary to perhaps Sheldon's opinion BLI does sell a lot of "smaller" locos. There are 2-8-0's and 4-6-2's and 2-8-2's of many roadnames, and they make run after run of them. To me, that is "small", but possibly not small enough for some folks. Also, it actually costs every bit as much money to tool up and make a small Southern Pacific 0-6-0 switcher as a much larger engine. All the steps are the same. That (and the complex multi-color paint schemes) is why the Challenger Imports SP 0-6-0's made many years ago now are $2000 engines. I am told nobody can produce a new 0-6-0 in full on brass now for less than about $1500--and that means even to do small steam as a brass hybrid is going to be cost prohibitive. You have to generate enough sales, which in brass is at least 100 units (according to Jim Bennett who is friends with the owner of Boo Rim) to get made. The problem with that is there are very few "correct" "road specific" engines out there that will generate 100 units in sales. There just are not enough buyers of steam power anymore. Rapido has found that out: reservations for their small Canadian steam engines were underwhelming, and at least one is on indefinite "hold" pending more reservations, and these are far from being $150 engines, more like $450 street sale price. Challengers, Big Boys, other monster articulateds, and big surviving passenger 4-8-4's just plain sell. Other steam power--there just aren't usually enough people willing to buy them to generate enough sales numbers anymore. However BLI can continue cranking out USRA steamers till the cows come home; they are already tooled. Disclaimer: Paul, I know there are New Haven fans that will argue this, but New Haven is likely an exception and far from the rule. There are D&RGW 2-8-2's and 4-6-2's coming in brass (they shared a common boiler) but the actual as delivered price is going to be above $2000 regardless of what some online price quotes may say (they are outdated). This, again, is according to Jim Bennett, Moderator of one of the brass forums over on Facebook. Happy turkey day to all- John
John, the problem with the "small " steam form BLI is this, they are too cheap or too lazy to make the simplest small proto specific detail changes on these locos.
The detail on all three of those locos is not even Bachmann standard line level. Bachmann Mikados and Pacifics at least have correct trailing trucks, correct headlight locations, and various tenders that reflect the style of the roadname even if they are not perfect.
For totally generic I should pay more? And not be able to buy it without a decoder?
Since DCC or sound is not an issue for me, mechanically, with decoders removed, none of my BLI locos run significantly better than my Bachmann/Spectrum locos.
In fact, the two BLI heavy Mikes I have, had to be torn down and reassembled by me as if I was building a Bowser kit to get reasonable performance.
I have my share of larger steam locos, but I am building an operational model railroad not a museum display of famous steam giants. I have way more Connies (10), Mikes (8), Pacifics (4, and shopping for a few more) and Mountains (10) than articulated or long wheelbase giants of late steam. Even at that, 5 of my 10 articulated locos are USRA 2-6-6-2's, not really any bigger than a Mountain or a Santa Fe class.
Price has little to do with it, but, I paid less than $200 each for two BLI Class A's, only slightly more than $200 each for two PCM DC Reading T-1's, And only a little over $100 each for a Pacific and the two heavy Mikes - had I paid more I might have been really upset that I had to rebuild them.
Admittedly, nearly all my locos were purchased years ago, and my loco want list is very small.
The C&O J3a is the only BLI product I am even remotely currently interested in, But I already have two very nice running Spectrum C&O J-2's to pull that train......
Now what I would buy is a nice B&O P7e that is not $1200, $400, $500 yes, $1200 no.
The dollar cost average of my whole fleet of 140 locos, steam and diesel, is around $100 each. They are all nicely detailed and run great. But again, they are all DC and have been purchased over the last 20 years. And it even includes a few pieces of brass and brass hybrids.
I'm a modeler and kit basher, not an "expensive model collector". Nothing wrong with collecting nice products, but I'm about the layout scenic and operational goals as the big picture, aquiring locos that are suitable is just one piece in that puzzle, it is not the primary end game.
To that end BLI has missed a lot of my money, while Proto, Bachmann, Intermoutain, and Genesis, in that order, have gotten most of my loco dollars in the last 20 years.
I dont agree with what theyre doing, but I tell tell why they do it...
Why do they not offer non-decoder engines? BLI makes their own decoders, it is obviously their incentive to put them in every possible model they can.
Producing their own decoders significantly reduces the additional cost they take to add, since they arent paying some other decoder manufac to add to their engines. Yet, it allows them to charge the same price as other makers' DCC sound engines. So they make greater profits putting in decoders they make themselves since they get both the loco's profit margin AND the decoder's.
Every manufac that makes their own decoders has pushed their engines with their own decoders more than their engines without, such as MTH. Now Im aware their diesels do come in DCC ready, but I do believe their steam comes only in Proto sound form. And it makes sense they do, for similar reasons (plus theyre MTH).
I have yet to have issues with my paragon 2/3 decoders, I actually enjoy the Paragon 2 sound a lot.
Obviously it would be nice if they brought back the "no sound" versions of their engines, or even the Blueline. But there's just so little incentive to do so.
Maybe some of you will avoid buying BLI locos but the vast majority wont. Theyre one of the few who makes rarer PRR (and Santa Fe sorta) engines thats not brass. PRR modelers like me will continue to buy their stuff.
That's why they do it. Whether it will suit all their customers is another topic. PS anyone who has a spare Paragon 2 steam decoder they want to toss, PM me, I want one ;)
Cheers!
Charles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Trainman440 Back to the original topic, BLI makes their own decoders, it is obviously their incentive to put them in every possible model they can. Producing their own decoders significantly reduces the additional cost they take to add, since they arent paying some other decoder manufac to add to their engines. Yet, it allows them to charge the same price as other makers' DCC sound engines. So they make greater profits putting in decoders they make themselves since they get both the loco's profit margin AND the decoder's. Every manufac that makes their own decoders has pushed their engines with their own decoders more than their engines without, such as MTH. Now Im aware their diesels do come in DCC ready, but I do believe their steam comes only in Proto sound form. And it makes sense they do, for similar reasons (plus theyre MTH). I have yet to have issues with my paragon 2/3 decoders, I actually enjoy the Paragon 2 sound a lot. Obviously it would be nice if they brought back the "no sound" versions of their engines, or even the Blueline. But there's just so little incentive to do so. Maybe some of you will avoid buying BLI locos but the vast majority wont. Theyre one of the few who makes rarer PRR (and Santa Fe sorta) engines thats not brass. PRR modelers like me will continue to buy their stuff. PS anyone who has a spare Paragon 2 steam decoder they want to toss, PM me, I want one ;) Cheers! Charles
Back to the original topic, BLI makes their own decoders, it is obviously their incentive to put them in every possible model they can.
Maybe some of you will avoid buying BLI locos but the vast majority wont. Theyre one of the few who makes rarer PRR (and Santa Fe sorta) engines thats not brass. PRR modelers like me will continue to buy their stuff. PS anyone who has a spare Paragon 2 steam decoder they want to toss, PM me, I want one ;)
We all understand the economics of manufacturing, but all that would mean more if they actually owned a factory that even one part came from.......
Proprietary or not, the WHOLE LOCOMOTIVE comes from a factory owned by someone else.
No offense to anyone, but not everyone in this hobby models PRR or ATSF. I think it is great that those models are offered for those who do, but just like you might not be buying any locos that say B&O, or C&O, or WESTERN MARYLAND, I'm not buying any that say PRR, UP, ATSF, NYC or even N&W, except to repaint a few N&W locos to ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
There you have it, most of their steam loco product line complelely outside my interests. And most of their diesels that I have seen don't meet my detail requirements.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No offense to anyone, but not everyone in this hobby models PRR or ATSF. Sheldon
No offense to anyone, but not everyone in this hobby models PRR or ATSF.
That part about the PRR and ATSF was not meant for you, nor anyone else. There was literally ZERO implication that "everyone should model ATSF or PRR", nor did I imply that BLI is trying to cater toward everyone by producing more PRR and ATSF engines.
I was simply stating to those that do model PRR or ATSF, they produce some nice models. (And we are grateful and lucky that they do. )
I was also giving an example of how they werent producing all the flashiest engines. Engines like the H10s or the L1s are arguably not fancy in any means. Yet they still produced them.
I dont see why you think everyone's reply is intented toward you, and every manufacturer is trying to please you.
Good for you if you dont want to buy BLI engines. I, and many others will be.
I agree their diesels need some work. The latest F7s/F3s and certain others are decent, but the GEVOs (?) and SD40s need some updating and prototype specific detail.
The why doesn't BLI offer plain dc question has been often debated on more than one forum.
I'm not saying I agree with it or that I like it, at all. It was a business decision. The "Blueline" series engines just didn't light the world on fire with either sales or quality. At some point they just decided that most of their key repeat buyers prefer fully featured engines.
Sheldon and I disagree on many things, but here is where we actually have something in common: we don't want or need all the features. I like cool lights, and he probably doesn't need them or else is perfectly content to do his own. As far as why they don't make at least an attempt (like Bachmann) to get some of the road specific details "correct", I have no good answer.
Maybe Bachmann is doing larger product runs and in their sales model they assume some of the road specific details are amortized over the entire run? I just do not know.
To say you are not going to buy any BLI engines at all when they are the largest or one of the largest remaining manufacturers of HO steam would seem to be unfortunate, but I can respect that choice, or those that make that choice.
Unfortunately there is no perfect manufacturer. They all have their plusses and minuses. I love Kato's quality but some consider their diesel handrails to be coarse and many bemoan their utter lack of paint schemes. Their recent HO offerings have been rather limited, and the older I get the more I learn they made some tooling mistakes just like the other guys.
I find the trend toward all fully featured engines to be disturbing, as at that point manufacturers are pushing some of us to buy stuff we don't want or really need, but it's just not up to me. I know the trend is ongoing. Yet at the same time, shopping online today, it's the plain dc units of some roadnames that are still sold out, while full featured ones may still be in stock. I don't know how you forecast demand from that.