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Enough with the Polly Scale

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  • Member since
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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:15 PM

The old guys in model railroading have stockpiled massive amounts of Floquil and Polyscale. 

In MRVP when Cody or Popp paint somethng, there are dozens of old bottles of paint to choose from.  The videos used to say you can find something similar in the Model Master line, but that has gone away.

In the 80's and 90's I could go to MB Klein, which became Modeltrainstuff.com and buy either Floquil or Polyscale.  Now they sell Mission Models, the next closest LHS sold Valejo, the next Tru scale the next Scalecoat.  The choice between scalecoat annd valejo was 100 miles in travel.

Henry

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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, November 12, 2020 1:12 PM

Paul3

 

Mark,
Back on August 17th in one of their public Zoom meetings, I asked Dan Darnell about the ProtoPaint, and he had this to say then:

Dan Darnell: "Well, it's been in sort of a stasis I guess for a little while.  We're working with the manufacturer to come up with new colors and a new method of basically filling the bottles more efficiently.  So that's what sort of slowed us down at the time.  It's not dead.  We will basically be probably doing a re-launch in October.  We still have a few little bugs to work out with the manufactuer and we'll get it back out there."

Obviously, the October re-launch didn't happen.

 

My communication with Dan regarding my comment was on November 4th, well beyond the public zoom meeting you referred to.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:38 PM

Have to adapt. Becoming more familiar with Vallejo and just went to poke around Micheals (did see an alternative to the Woodland line pen!).  I guess just wish our industry mascots would share their current experience with these changes and add some new updates to old articles that may still have value....or maybe they do have a Polly vault in WI! 

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:16 PM

Mark R.

I've been talking with Dan at Rapido lately as we've been having trouble getting Rapido paint for the store (always on back order). Apparently, they are having difficulty communicating with the supplier of the paint and are unsure if the program will continue or not.

Mark. 

 

That would be disappointing. I really like their "warm black", that is flat and fairly close to the color of Canadian steam locos we see in the history books. I always found the grimy black color too light - maybe it's meant for the Western dusty climate, but not in the Eastern Canada muggy environment.

If that line goes, I think I will start mixing my own paint from craft paints and come up with a homemade "standard mix". I'm sick of trying out paints that just don't look right on my steam locos. Sure, I can always make adjustments using washes, but touch-ups don't work very well in these applications.

Simon 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:54 AM

cv_acr
Why waste expensive RR-specific colours on painting figures?

Those "expensive" RR-specific paints are much less expensive than the good paints actually intended for painting figures.

-Kevin

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:04 AM

richhotrain

 

 
rrinker

I think some of you need to get out a little more. Big Smile Just google model railroad paint chart and there are many, many hits - even excluding the other magazine. There are a lot of reference charts done out there. 

 

 

Easier said than done for many of us. With the near demise of the LHS, the closest one to me is 30 minutes away, and the shop carries limited paint brands. 

 

Rich

 

 I meant get out more on the Internet - the nearest "LHS" that has anything worthwhile for me is also far enough away to make it not worth my time. I haven't beeen to the "LHS" in a long time. Modeltrainstuff and a couple of others are my LHS now. When I need paint, if it's one of the more oddball ones not stocked by train oriented stores, I'll have to find another - though most of it is available on Amazon and sometimes in craft stores, of which I do have one nearby.

                                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:37 AM

cv_acr
 Why waste expensive RR-specific colours on painting figures? Cheap craft acrylics will work nicely there. 

I certainly have adapted this over the years, originally more due to cost than availablity.
Also judicious usage of basic Rustoleum spray primers and paints (the latest cans I've gotten seem not to clog as much, maybe they fixed the nozzle clogging after prolonged usage issue?), and Tamiya spray when smooth, thin coverage is needed.  

Note the lack of railroad specific colors - I figure ball-park level color matching is good enough, since the prototype rolling stock colors don't seem to match their color specs except when right out of the paint-shop (and judging from the amount of graffitti and patching on modern era railroads, that isn't so often.  Never lost sleep over exact shades of PRR DGLE (If  I modelled the PRR of that era, whcih I don't), and I suspect by the 1960s neither did the PRR itself. Quick, what color is a Railbox boxcar nowadays - lets head to some rail mage archive sites and see...ah, various shades of yellow (within a narrow spectrum) depending on weathering and fading - for me, close enough after i add some weathering.

Re-reading some of the old school erstwhile second tier magazines on the 'archive', in the 1990s issues I came across full page ads produly announcing the arrival of new and improved - Polly Scale! (improved from Polly S).  Struck me at this laste date as incongruent - grandly announcing a line of paint that, while it would indeed gain praise from modelers and become a baseline for articles...was unceremonially dumped about 13 years later. Maybe the movie The Matrix was right, we reached the peak of our civilization in 1999... 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:12 AM

WPA
 Says, hey, we feel your pain and here is what we want to share with you as options for favorite colors.

The lines of paints from the best manufacturers change frequently.

Keeping a colour chart cross reference current would probably be too much of a task.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:06 AM

Great feedback. First, I will recommend it to MR via the link. Likely suggest they do a small but expanded downloadable article matching new brands like their peers over at that free mag did before Kalmbach‘s vault of Polly drys up (did see that free mag reference and is helpful). Maybe MR gets ahead of this and puts out something newer.  Says, hey, we feel your pain and here is what we want to share with you as options for favorite colors. As far as updates, I think some technics and articles are timeless hence why half of MRs MO is to keep repackaging them and why I still flip through my copy of building the Clinchfield. But is it too much to ask to maybe include a closing call out box with reference or tips to overcome outdated material references. I understand tweaking an article can make the cut and paste editing a nightmare but something at the end shows they are trying to stay current. I don’t think other magazines like In Fisherman are recycling bass fishing technics and referencing a hot spinning reel from 1995. Maybe after being out of the hobby for a while I am just having trouble adapting to an entirely different hobby landscape.  

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:03 AM

rrinker

I think some of you need to get out a little more. Big Smile Just google model railroad paint chart and there are many, many hits - even excluding the other magazine. There are a lot of reference charts done out there. 

Easier said than done for many of us. With the near demise of the LHS, the closest one to me is 30 minutes away, and the shop carries limited paint brands. 

Rich

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Posted by cv_acr on Thursday, November 12, 2020 8:58 AM

doctorwayne
Unfortunately, like many current paints, Rapido's paint comes pre-thinned (like nobody has water to thin it as needed), so it's okay for airbrushing, but pretty-well useless for brushwork.  If you wanna paint figures for your passenger cars or street scenes, it's time to sharpen-up on your masking skills.

 

Why waste expensive RR-specific colours on painting figures? Cheap craft acrylics will work nicely there.

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 12, 2020 8:41 AM

 There is an (often updated) reference chart available from the publishers of the other magazine, the free one. A fairly comprehensive reference comparing all the old stuff like Floquil and Polyscale to currently avaialble paint lines like Vallejo, Tamaiya, Humbro, and Model Master. It's a pretty big spreadsheet.

 Sorry, can't link it, I doubt Kalmbach would appreciate such a link. But it's not too hard to find. But for those saying something like this needs to be done, or hasn't been done - it has - for several years now.

Edit: I think some of you need to get out a little more. Big Smile Just google model railroad paint chart and there are many, many hits - even excluding the other magazine. There are a lot of reference charts done out there. Here is one from Microscale, though I don't know how up to date it is, just an example of what's out there:

https://www.microscale.com/Floquil%20Color%20Chart.pdf

 If anyone should be familiar with some of these other paint brands which are not traditional model railroad things, I would expect it to be Kevin with all the miniature and wargaming stuff.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 8:22 AM

WPA
 Bought the recent Best of Scenery 2020 and did see a few updates.  But same old Model Realistic Rapids column as was printed in the How to Build Realistic Layouts #7 from 2010, zero updates with Polly Scale all over.

From what I see in this thread, we are talking about a book, not Model Railroader magazine.

These books contain reprints of old articles, and I never read them. I only buy books that contain new material. I have no need for collections of old articles because I read them in the magazines when they were new.

The question is about whether or not the Kalbach staff should edit an old article when it is included in a compilation of previously published material.

I think no. Even though techniques might have changed, and products are not available, the article should remain the same as printed.

The classic example would be 764 Tips For Model Railroaders that came out decades ago. It had several printings through the years and the contents were not updated. It would have lost something if it had been updated.

About Paints: It is now just plain silly to hold onto any Model Railroad themed line of paint other that Scalecoat. Better paint manufacturers have raised the bar of quality very high, and now all MR colours are simply obsolete.

Articles in Model Railroader and elsewhere are now referencing paints by Vallejo, Citadel, and others that are better than any Model Railroad line of paint ever was.

richhotrain
Right now, my only real source of information is this forum. Knowledgeable people are still around. Unfortunately, so are a few spreaders of misinformation.

I wish this problem would be addressed.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:39 AM

L. Zhou

I agree, WPA. I remember reading through old Model Railroader how-to books and all the entries utilized Polly-Scale paints when I was younger (2013 or so) and I remember being disappointed when I found out that they discontinued Polly Scale much later on (2017), and by then it got super hard to find. I used Model Master paints as a subsitute but now since they were discontinued this year I need to find another substitute for Grimy Black and Rust. 

acgilbert

Why isn't information like this coming directly and earlier from MR itself, our supposed resource for modelers?  Instead we have to get it belatedly and third hand on the web from other modelers who seem to know more about significant product data than the professionals who write this mag. 

I have to agree with these sentiments.

MR mag should be covering these issues. For years, I subscribed to MR as the supposed leading magazine on HO scale modeling, but I am no longer a subscriber because I felt that MR lost its relevance to my modeling needs.

As for the loss of Polly Scale and then Model Master, I am still buying what is left of new old stock on eBay and in my LHS. When that inventory is depleted, I don't know where to turn.

Right now, my only real source of information is this forum. Knowledgeable people are still around. Unfortunately, so are a few spreaders of misinformation.

Maybe Walthers needs to step in and start a magazine and a forum and become a hobby paint source.

Is anyone out there listening?

Rich

 

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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 1:11 AM

Wayne,
Tru-Color and Accu-Paint, even tho' they are both acetone-based, are not related in any other way.  George Bishop made Accu-paint in Bolton, MA and he had a flood that ruined a lot of uninsured product in 2007.  He tried to start making Accu-paint again in 2008 with a partner named Asa Worcester as George's health took a turn for the worse.  They may or may not released paint again but I know they did make some decals together.  George went into assisted living and passed away in December 2010, and Asa passed away in 2017.

From their website: "Tru-Color Paint was formed by Rick Galazzo and Scott Cohen in 2008 in Phoenix, AZ.  Both principals have extensive experience with formulating paint on the commercial scale and decided to branch out on their own in the model paint business. With the need for a superb solvent based paint, they reformulated the old Accupaint formulation to flow better and give a more glossy appearance after drying."

Mark,
Back on August 17th in one of their public Zoom meetings, I asked Dan Darnell about the ProtoPaint, and he had this to say then:

Dan Darnell: "Well, it's been in sort of a stasis I guess for a little while.  We're working with the manufacturer to come up with new colors and a new method of basically filling the bottles more efficiently.  So that's what sort of slowed us down at the time.  It's not dead.  We will basically be probably doing a re-launch in October.  We still have a few little bugs to work out with the manufactuer and we'll get it back out there."

Obviously, the October re-launch didn't happen.

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Posted by acgilbert on Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:30 AM

Why isn't information like this coming directly and earlier from MR itself, our supposed resource for modelers?  Instead we have to get it belatedly and third hand on the web from other modelers who seem to know more about significant product data than the professionals who write this mag.

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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:12 AM

I've been talking with Dan at Rapido lately as we've been having trouble getting Rapido paint for the store (always on back order). Apparently, they are having difficulty communicating with the supplier of the paint and are unsure if the program will continue or not.

Mark. 

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 11:53 PM

I believe that Tru-Color paint (formerly SMP Accupaint) has Color Charts available for matching colours for several brands of paint no longer being produced.

Unfortunately, like many current paints, Rapido's paint comes pre-thinned (like nobody has water to thin it as needed), so it's okay for airbrushing, but pretty-well useless for brushwork.  If you wanna paint figures for your passenger cars or street scenes, it's time to sharpen-up on your masking skills.

Wayne

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Posted by cats think well of me on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 11:07 PM

This is great news! I'm glad to hear about it as well. I think that it's airbrush ready and dries to a glossy hue is great for color coats, however, for weathering colors and many others, drying to a gloss doesn't seem as preferable, but I'd think a clear flat/dull coat would do the trick. Maybe mix the two? 

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 10:35 PM

Thanks, Paul. Yes

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Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 10:22 PM

Just to remind folks that the company that made Polly Scale paint now makes Rapido's ProtoPaint.  The color formulas are exactly the same, but the paint has a few differences: it's truly airbrush ready (no thinning required), railroad colors now dry glossy (for ease of decaling), and it smells better.  Weathering colors from Rapido ProtoPaint (like Grimy Black and Concrete) are still flat.

So if you're looking for Polly Scale colors, try Rapido ProtoPaint.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 9:16 PM

I think that would be a very good article, WPA, and be helpful to the MRRing community since Pollyscale is no more.  Perhaps you could recommend that idea to MR using the links under the Contact the Magazine heading.

Tom

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Posted by L. Zhou on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 9:12 PM

I agree, WPA. I remember reading through old Model Railroader how-to books and all the entries utilized Polly-Scale paints when I was younger (2013 or so) and I remember being disappointed when I found out that they discontinued Polly Scale much later on (2017), and by then it got super hard to find. I used Model Master paints as a subsitute but now since they were discontinued this year I need to find another substitute for Grimy Black and Rust.

"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang

-

WPA
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Enough with the Polly Scale
Posted by WPA on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:52 PM

I remember Polly Scale, yes when I started in the hobby in the late 1970s.  Getting back in it and knowing Polly Scale is left in the past increasing aggravated with MRs regurgitation of old articles with limited to no updates or recommendations on updated related colors. Just same old reference to Polly Scale this or that.  Bought the recent Best of Scenery 2020 and did see a few updates.  But same old Model Realistic Rapids column as was printed in the How to Build Realistic Layouts #7 from 2010, zero updates with Polly Scale all over.  A little effort would go a long way in keeping current and keeping readers.  How about a fresh article on current matches to old favorites MR style.  

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