Some time ago MR ran a story about basic electronics soldeing and mention a certian kind of Kessler solder was best. I remember it was thin, had 2% sliver, rosen core but that's all. Can anyone fill in the details please?
i use 63/37 .. i don't consider silver bearing to be 'the best' ...
Hi banjobenne1,
Ngineering sells the Kester 2% silver solder. I have used it for years and it works great. Scroll down the page:
https://www.ngineering.com/soldering.htm
I will qualify the "works great" statement. Like any solder, it only works great if you have a decent quality soldering iron with a clean tip. If you are having trouble soldering, you might need to reconsider the equipment that you are using or maybe just a new tip.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
For electronics, and any other kind of model railroad work, you want tin lead solder, 60% tin 40% lead. Some makers sell 63% tin 37% lead, which is the eutectic (lowest melting point) alloy. It doesn't really matter, the 60 40 alloy works just as well, to the point that there is little to no difference between them. Kester is a long time good name in soldering supplies, but any maker is fine. You want a fairly thin solder wire, an 1/8th inch is about right, smaller is fine too. Much solder is made with a rosin flux core. Under the heat of soldering the rosin flows out and fluxes the parts. This only works on brand new very clean stuff. I always have to apply a dab of rosin flux to anything I am soldering, so a roll of solid solder works just fine too.
Stay away from 50-50 solder and acid flux. These are only for plumbing. They make "lead free" solder. I don't trust it and I don't use it. Nor do I use "silver bearing" solders, they just cost more. And they make "silver solder" which is a high temperature solder that needs a propane torch to melt it. Silver soldering is close to brazing, I have never needed it in model railroading.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarrYou want a fairly thin solder wire, an 1/8th inch is about right, smaller is fine too.
1/8"??? - That's HUGE. I would recommend 1/32" OD rosin-core for general-purpose soldering.
I use 60/40 and a dab of rosin soldering flux when I solder then clean up any leftover flux with 91% alcohol and a cotton swab. Can't stand nor trust the lead-free solder.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Silver bearing solder is needed for stainless steel, good to know, but not a real concern in electronics. Dan
tstage1/8"??? - That's HUGE.
+1 !
Most of my decoder installs and led/signal wiring is done with .020". For track feeders and rail joiners I'll jump up to .032"
I don't have any experience with silver-bearing solder for electronic work. I use 60/40 or 63/37 for electronics. I believe the silver bearing stuff is for lead-free (RoHS) considerations.
Good Luck, Ed
I was taught that the 62/36/2 silver-bearing solder was principally for applications where you want a clean eutectic freeze but are using silver or silver-bearing wire or components. I do not think this applies to most modeling work. Technically the joint is about 2x the strength of one in 60/40, but again for most modeling electrical purposes this is of little importance.
The big reason to prefer a more eutectic alloy is the absence of cold-soldered joints. The plastic range of 60/40 solder is nearly 10 degrees F, and you will need to keep the joint aligned and undisturbed through that range. The eutectic is foolproof in that regard.
I think the best 'lead-free' alloy is mostly tin, 3% silver, 0.5% copper, 0.06% nickel, 0.01% germanium. This has a considerably higher melting temperature than eutectic tin/lead, and I was told you should never use a tip tinned with lead-bearing solder to work with lead-free (or vice versa). If you are serious about this, get a good adjustable iron (my preference is digital temperature readout with knob, not push button adjust, but buttons for presets can be useful when working with multiple solders of different melting points in a complex assembly).
I'd go straight to eutectic ~.022" with a good no-clean flux in addition to the tired rosin-core excuse that may come with the solder product you buy. Note that the true eutectic composition is a decimal percentage, not a round "63:37". That should handle most of the tasks you need; there is no harm except more cost in using the 62/36/2 silver-bearing solder. Personally I don't think any slight improvement in alloy conductivity is meaningful in modeling work.
gmpullmanI don't have any experience with silver-bearing solder for electronic work.
I have also never used silver bearing solder for modelling or electronic work. What would be the desired advantage?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190I have also never used silver bearing solder for modelling or electronic work. What would be the desired advantage?
Hi Kevin,
All I know is that I have used it for years and I like it. Supposedly the silver content makes for a stronger joint but I can't see how that matters when the joints will never be stressed, which is the case in most decoder applications.
I do know that it flows quickly when I have tinned all the parts, but since I haven't worked with anything else for quite some time, that property may be no different from any of the non silver bearing solders.
I will say this again:
Whatever solder you are trying to use is irrelevant if you are not using a good quality soldering station, or if your tip is not clean and if you have not prepared the contact surfaces properly. I struggled for years with what I thought was a decent quality Weller soldering station but I could never get satisfactory results. It was always hard to get a smooth joint. Maybe I wasn't changing the tips often enough, I don't know. Then I bought an Xytronic station and the difference in results has been amazing. It has been so much easier to get great results with. The difference is like night and day!
Note that the Xytronic soldering stations have been cloned and the clones are garbage. Deal with these guys only:
http://www.xytronic-usa.com/shop/
Cheers!!
I have acquired several lbs of 60/40 organic core solder. .020 diameter. Does anyone have experience using this type? Supposedly it is a water clean up product. I suppose it is acceptable for electrical work since it is not acid core.
Charlie
That should be fine. It's a good size for smaller stuff. If you solder heavier wire, like large bus and feeder wire joints, you might want something larger diameter, but for decoders, electronics, soldering rail joints - .020 should be good.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker If you solder heavier wire, like large bus and feeder wire joints, you might want something larger diameter
I use 0.062" for feeders and bus. I do not install decoders.
For track joints, I think the spool of solder I use is 0.032".
Tin/lead solder tends to leach silver out of the substrate into the joint, which causes issues (this can be pronounced and is well-recognized in silversmithing, which is seldom a modeling concern!). The added percentage of silver precludes this.
I have to date not come across a reference that says the incidental increase in joint strength is a material reason to use the stuff. They all lay emphasis on the effect on silver or silver-bearing substrates.
I have always preferred the 63/37 eutectic type to plain 60/40. It is actually a lot easier to get consistently good results with. If you are even the least bit shakey, and have to hold one side of the wire or whatever - the difference is quite significant.
I also will not use that lead-free rubbish. Most of it requires a lot higher heat to melt - which is why there was such a problem initially with product failures, as the components that soldered fine with regular leaded solder were now subjected to higher heats and failing prematurely. Just don;t eat the stuff, and wash your hands (you should be washing your hands more than usual these days anyway). The smoke that comes off of solder is NOT lead fumes - if your soldering iron is getting hor enough to actually boil the lead, you have other problems - it's the flux activating. Which may not be something you should be breathing either, but lead-free solder will have the same.
It's nearly impossible to get a 'cold' joint with a eutectic solder. Even with plenty of experience - I still prefer it for making sure I always get good connections. Why use the harder tool to work with? If someone gave you a few pounds of 60/40, fine, but if going out to buy some solder, stick with 63/37. That little difference in the ratio may not seem like much, but it actually makes a huge difference. There's a reason they say baking is more like chemistry - a slight change and you get entirely different results.
rrinkerIf you solder heavier wire, like large bus and feeder wire joints, you might want something larger diameter...
I have a coild of solder that my mother bought me in my teens. Haven't used it up yet. Mostly, I've used my Weller gun she bought me then, too (though I've had to replace the trigger switch).
Get a tin of rosin solder flux paste. Dip what you're soldering in, and the tip, and go for it. I only use tin/lead solder for electronics of any kind. Using the flux paste is important, though - it cleans oxidation off, to allow the solder to bind.
I don't know "silver bearing solder", though I have used a lot of silver solder making jewelry. You do NOT want that for model railroading, given I use an oxy-propane or oxy-acetyline torch to do silver solder, not unless you want to melt/burn off all the plastic.
I have been using Cardas quad eutectic silver solder for some years. I bought it from Amazon. Goes from liquid to solid faster than any other type of solder and I have been soldering since 1955.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Hello All,
The brand name is actually Kester.
It goes by the name 44 Flux-Cored Wire. The part number is #2460400007.
The specification are Sn60Pb40 3.3%/44 .015 1 LB SPL- -in plain English that translates to: 60% Tin, 40% Lead, 3.3% Flux, 0.015" Diameter in a 1-pound Spool.
I purchased mine at Kimco: https://gokimco.com/products/kester-24-6337-0007-sn63-pb37-wire-solder-44-activated-rosin-015dia-66-core-1-lb
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnitIt goes by the name 44 Flux-Cored Wire. The part number is #2460400007.
Hi jjdamnit,
The OP was asking about silver bearing solder which is a slightly different beast. The silver bearing solder is part #83-7145-0415 which is 0.020", 62% tin, 36% lead, 2% silver with a rosin core. Note that that is for a .35 oz tube, not a 1lb. roll as referenced by you.
As has been suggested above, the difference with or without silver is likely negligable for decoder/model locomotive work.
One thing I will mention is that a 1lb. coil will likely last most modellers several lifetimes. I have been using the .35 oz tubes for 15 years and I might use 1/2 tube per year when I am doing a lot of installations. In fact, I used it to wire up 12 separate control panels for my old club that had more than 100 DPDT switches and 200 LEDs on them and I only used part of a tube. A little goes a long way. Having said that, I don't know if buying a 1lb. roll at the beginning would have been more cost effective.
Here is an Amazon listing for the silver bearing solder:
https://www.amazon.com/Kester-83-7145-0415-Pocket-Silver-0-35oz/dp/B01FV2525E
In a sense the quad eutectic is the 'gold standard' for handheld electronics work. It has the silver content to prevent issues when soldering silver-bearing material (see above) but there is a comparable effect with copper, which matters on very thin wires and traces. The Cardas formulation adds the proper combination of copper to (1) preclude embrittlement of fine copper wire or traces in the solder-alloy bond, and (2) retain the quick freeze that is the advantage of 63/37 (or 62/36/2 silver) for handheld as opposed to machine-assisted, laser or wave-soldering (where the advantages don't justify the cost over 60/40)
'Back in the day' before I learned how to solder properly I used the solder my grandfather used, which was 'multicore' eutectic. I see this is still made. He thought dividing the flux into multiple finer channels helped it work better, and this might be valuable for those of you who choose not to use external flux.