OvermodIf you have a longer and more complete version, please post its URL here. I had ridiculous trouble tracking down even the 'legacy' old-catalogue version. This is too precious a resource to be MIA while the 'new ownership' gets its new Web presentation together...
Upon examination, they might be pretty similar documents. This one is labeled 1.4 while yours is labled 1.2, but both have a publishing date of 1/1/2017.
https://nebula.wsimg.com/9efc443e6b1c221c97ebd56248a29065?AccessKeyId=08BEE66B97B387F20C0D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouseThat document was part of the document I found.
Overmod Why this is so hard to find is strange. I assume you got it through the 'old catalog'; the date on the document matches: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/4032/2669/files/Gears_1_2.pdf?263
Why this is so hard to find is strange. I assume you got it through the 'old catalog'; the date on the document matches:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/4032/2669/files/Gears_1_2.pdf?263
richg1998NWSL describes them in Gear Planning page. A great resource you should download.
I'm not sure I got the right paper. I downloaded "QUALITY GEARS FOR MODEL BUILDERS, TINKERERS, Etc." published 1/1/2017.
SpaceMouse richg1998 The MDC intermidiate gear box is wonderful. I have made my own. A 72 to 1 for a switcher with a can motor with a flywheel is excellent. Motor mounted in bath caulk for no vibration. What I thought was a simple engineering problem has become infinitely more complex. What is an MDC gearbox? I assume you are using a series of gears to provide low-end precision, but in the DCC world, what does that accomplish that a CV setting or two wouldn't. What does a flywheel do other than provide momentum? I was planning on mounting my engine in caulk, but I first have to build some kind of structure to hold the smaller motor at the right distance and angle.
richg1998 The MDC intermidiate gear box is wonderful. I have made my own. A 72 to 1 for a switcher with a can motor with a flywheel is excellent. Motor mounted in bath caulk for no vibration.
What I thought was a simple engineering problem has become infinitely more complex.
What is an MDC gearbox? I assume you are using a series of gears to provide low-end precision, but in the DCC world, what does that accomplish that a CV setting or two wouldn't.
What does a flywheel do other than provide momentum?
I was planning on mounting my engine in caulk, but I first have to build some kind of structure to hold the smaller motor at the right distance and angle.
I found more gear reduction. I built two of my own. Your MDC locos have them.
Also allows the motor to be horizontal, not at an angle.
NWSL describes them in Gear Planning page. A great resource you should download.
I bought it when thet were still in Washington years ago.
All my newer Roundhouse locos came with them and open frame skewed armature motors with flywheels.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Good. Everything I'm doing here will be first time, with the exception of the decoder install. I'm sure I'll have plenty of challenges.
SpaceMouseIs there any reason not to proceed with just the new motor and pickups on insulated wheels on the pilot and training wheels,
If it isn't 'adequate' you can always cut the caulk mount, modify things, and do more later.
That also applies if you get the new motor in and find you need or want additional 'fine tuning' on the chassis, or bearings, or rod bushings or whatever. In my opinion at least it's not much time, and not much cost, to rework at any later time...
Is there any reason not to proceed with just the new motor and pickups on insulated wheels on the pilot and training wheels, or should I be considering more sophisticated modifications at this point?
SpaceMouseWhat is an MDC gearbox?
I assume you are using a series of gears to provide low-end precision, but in the DCC world, what does that accomplish that a CV setting or two wouldn't?
Note that there is another consideration: whether the gears or their arrangement cause prompt stopping when the motor changes speed or stops, as in a typical worm-drive setup. There some kind of electronic 'momentum control' becomes essential to smooth operation, and being able to fine-tune the motor's 'response' via CVs becomes highly valuable.
richg1998The MDC intermidiate gear box is wonderful. I have made my own. A 72 to 1 for a switcher with a can motor with a flywheel is excellent. Motor mounted in bath caulk for no vibration.
I just dragged out my full color Mantua catalogs from the middle to late 1990's and they show replacement motors. I had bought one for my General and Mantua sent me beautiful catalogs with all parts list. MC-90, MC,94, MC98. Motors with brackets. Not sure you will ever find them again.
Kits, trains sets, all kinds of locomotives, parts, incredible.
NWSL has all kinds of gears and motors, adapters also. I have used many.
The MDC intermidiate gear box is wonderful. I have made my own. A 72 to 1 for a switcher with a can motor with a flywheel is excellent. Motor mounted in bath caulk for no vibration.
I thought I scanned the catalog and sent them in years ago to HO Seeker,
Overmod SpaceMouse I'm trying to build something that will not be out of place in 1895. https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/26/NZ_6.jpg
SpaceMouse I'm trying to build something that will not be out of place in 1895.
https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/26/NZ_6.jpg
That would work, but it's a little showy. Randall "Rock" Ridge couldn't handle all the style points.
The motor I ordered from China arrived today and I found two things I could not believe.
1) That I got it so soon. It was supposed to arrive between Oct. 26 and Nov. 18th.
2) It is half the size of the original motor. It's like replacing a Chevy straight six with a Hyundai V4.
This week I had to replace a 2-6-0 tender truck that got damaged. They have wheels isolated from one another and I belive I can power the motor with pick-ups on both sides of the pilot and trailing wheels. Basically, I'm set to make the bash.
However, I now have 3 locomotives on the bench ahead of it, so it will be a while before I even look at it.
DanAnd then there were a few diesel or gas powered locomotives that the home shops made from steam engine chassis...
I'm trying to build something that will not be out of place in 1895.
RandyNot sure how practical it would be to make something that tiny that could actually pull more than itself around, even if it was made all of metal.
I was thinking 2 powered trucks and weight added to the chassis. I would put it in the mill yard moving one box car at a time. The most it might have to do is move 4 cars on flat ground. The boiler would be for electronics.
SimonChip, I thought you were going more in this direction (Bachmann ON30 2-6-2t):
Two seperate projects. The 2-6-2T would come first.
SpaceMouse
Now THAT is a cute Heisler!
Chip, I thought you were going more in this direction (Bachmann ON30 2-6-2t):
https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=487_673_1129&products_id=7112&zenid=aaeklcfngu85l20icaabrder46
Simon
OK, I would take a working model of that Lake Shore Stone loco in a heartbeat. Not sure how practical it would be to make something that tiny that could actually pull more than itself around, even if it was made all of metal. The boiler would almost have to be the motor.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
That's one idea. And then there were a few diesel or gas powered locomotives that the home shops made from steam engine chassis...
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.7zKIaFhh9jM3tyJNiPi9yQHaDm?pid=Api&rs=1
https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/923427/6dc01636-5364-4be9-9e7e-4c6119973bdc-A28539.jpg
Dan
More like the small home-made looking engines on the narrow gauge layouts.
This is not a great example.
I was thinking more like two trucks. Okay maybe like the Climax or a Bell or a small early Heisler.
SpaceMouseIs there any reason I couldn't make an old jalopy geared engine by using powered trucks and maybe building the boiler and cab myself?
That is very possible. Are you talking about building a model simlar to the old Roundhouse Climax?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
More like a tangent really.
Is there any reason I couldn't make an old jalopy geared engine by using powered trucks and maybe building the boiler and cab myself?
Simon1. make sure the motor you use has the same axle diameter as the worm gear(whether you use a new NWSL worm gear or the original plastic one)
I got one that came with a worm gear. Another listing with the same motor said that it was specifically for repowering locomotives (and charged 5 times as much.)
But I know it's a crapshoot that the gears mesh.
2. as I said, all the wheels on the engine can only pickup power from one side, or else it will short the engine out. Make sure the leading/trailing/3 main drivers are all in the right polarity. If you want the engine to pickup from both sides of the track, you can install isolated wipers on the insulated wheels. Buying wheels that pickup power from both sides of the track is really counter intuative.
I was hoping there was such a thing as picking up power from the axle with an isolation gap in the center. Haven't started looking for such a thing yet.
snjroy Chip, that is quite the project... You will problably need to change the pilot and trailing wheels (I think they are plastic), and isolate these trucks from the frame if you get rid of the tender. Not an impossible task. It might be a challenge to find room for a decoder in that tiny engine though.
Chip, that is quite the project... You will problably need to change the pilot and trailing wheels (I think they are plastic), and isolate these trucks from the frame if you get rid of the tender. Not an impossible task. It might be a challenge to find room for a decoder in that tiny engine though.
The plan is to wire a harness and push it through a hole in the boiler into the new side tank. The bottom will be removable with screws and I'll fit the decoder and speaker in there.
I know that it's not an option for you, but I was looking at the picture of the 2-6-2T, and I was wondering if someone ever tried to convert the Mantua 2-6-6-2T into a 2-6-2T. The same challenges would apply with respect to power pickup, but the engine is a bit bigger and the body is easier to adapt. I actually did the opposite, I added a tender to my 2-6-6-2T for added pickup. Runs better than my 2-6-2... Simon
We'll see how this one comes out. I might start building custom traction out of the small diesel frames I have.
I know that it's not an option for you, but I was looking at the picture of the 2-6-2T, and I was wondering if someone ever tried to convert the Mantua 2-6-6-2T into a 2-6-2T. The same challenges would apply with respect to power pickup, but the engine is a bit bigger and the body is easier to adapt. I actually did the opposite, I added a tender to my 2-6-6-2T for added pickup. Runs better than my 2-6-2...
1. make sure the motor you use has the same axle diameter as the worm gear(whether you use a new NWSL worm gear or the original plastic one)
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Trainman440That's odd, power pickup on that engine should be very simple. Make sure that only one side of the wheels are picking up power on the engine(including non drivers), and only one side of the wheels are picking up power from the tender.
There was caked on crud on both the pilot and trailer wheels. I'm going to clean them up and see if I can get it working.
I've ordered an FK-130 from China so I should have it by Christmas. In the meantime, I'll look for wheels that can pick up power from both sides of track.
That's odd, power pickup on that engine should be very simple. Make sure that only one side of the wheels are picking up power on the engine(including non drivers), and only one side of the wheels are picking up power from the tender.
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You got a few option for remotoring the engine.
1. Mantua used to sell some can motor upgrades, these go for $$$ on ebay these days. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-Mantua-Mc-94-Can-Motor-Wired-For-DCC-Or-DC-Tyco-Mikado-2-8-2-Pacific/324304050572?hash=item4b8207198c:g:VaIAAOSwkold87yd
2. You can do a manual motor replacement. Terrifyintexas7, a member who used to be on here, upgraded all his mantua engines to can motors. Basically find any can motor on ebay that fits, and use silicon glue to mount it in place. There are literally thousands of motors to choose from, the common one people use (bachmann engines used these for a period of time is the FK-130 motor. These go for like $2 per.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Japan-MABUCHI-FK-130SH-Motor-for-Four-wheel-Car-drive-Robot-DIY-Hobby/302488988022?epid=0&hash=item466dbfa976:g:zrQAAOSwEnlZ43Mr
Here's his channel, although he's sort of dropped off the face of the earth. But he's done a LOT of remotors and decoder wiring. You could probably get in contact with him for help.
https://www.youtube.com/user/TerryinTexas7/videos
3. Last option, and probably the best overall, would be to replace the gears and motor with NWSL gears and motor. Conveniently, they have a kit just for you:
https://nwsl.com/products/repower-kit-tyco-mantua-0-6-0
It includes motor, motor mount, drive gear and worm gear to make your engine run a whole lot better. While I haven't bought this set yet, I do plan to get it someday to upgrade my Mantua 0-4-0.
Good luck!
Charles
Engine works but whines and moans. Doesn't start moving until power is about 20%.
It didn't run by fixing the broken wire to the tender. Upon examination after I pulled it apart, the pilot and trailing wheels seem to be the source of power in the engine and they were cruddy.
No can. And it only got it to turn when I clipped the transformer leads right to the engine.
Yeah, the motor ran, but only when I hooked the power directly to it.
SpaceMouseAnyway, their company owned railroad was the California Western and the backbone of their fleet was 2-6-2Ts. The Rock Ridge RR is kinda sorta based on the California Western. The CW just came to the SP mainline about 12 years after the date of my layout. I've thought long and hard about bashing a 2-6-2T.
I've thought long and hard about bashing a 2-6-2T.
So here's the plan as I see it.
Get a can motor and make it work.
Isolate the pilot and trailer and use them for both pick-ups.
Wire an 8-pin harness that feeds through a hole in the body, changing out the headlamp with an LED and adding a rear light.
Build side tank, leaving the bottom removeable and store decoder, keep alive, and speaker in the tank.
Paint and decal. Add details.
Now, where the heck will I find the right can motor for this thing, and where do I get wheels that are isolated side to side?
Look, I know this loco is 12 years to young for my layout, but with the coolness factor of a 2-6-2T, I might let it stay.
wjstixNorthern Pacific ran 2-6-2 engines into the 1950's, they were fairly common around Duluth/ Superior for example. They were powerful enough that in the early 20th century NP even used them on iron ore trains.
My lumber mill is based on the Union Lumber Company in Ft. Bragg. Their operation looked like this. Be sure to click and scroll.
Anyway, their company owned railroad was the California Western and the backbone of their fleet was 2-6-2Ts. The RRRR is kinda sorta based on the California Western. The CW just came to the SP mainline about 12 years after the date of my layout.
wjstixLater Mantua engines (staring c.1988) used a Sagami can motors, and offered a retrofit kit to add the can motor to their earlier engines. Even if you can't find that kit, I suspect the can motor is still being made(?) As noted, you do have to isolate it from the chassis but that isn't hard. Just need some electrical or other tape and a plastic/nylon 2-56 screw.
I'll no doubt be into this thing soon. I'll see what's in there. I keep nylon 2-56 screws in stock.
wjstixThese Mantua engines, like most steam engines from 'the olden days', only picked up power on the drivers on one rail, and from the tender wheels on the other rail, so they are a good candidate for a decoder with some type of "keep alive" to they can keep going through turnouts or crossings.
The dead zone in my turnouts is about 1 3/8". If I put wipers on both tender axels, it might solve that problem. We'll see.