I understand that when no undecorated models of a locomotive or piece of rolling stock is avaible undecorated, stripping off the paint, applying a primer coat to bring out said color you wish to paint your model is the way to go.However what are the results from your experiance of just say, painting over the current paint job? I wish to create my own roaster of CN heritage units in past CN liverys using the Rivet Counter line of HO scale CN Tier 4s by Scale Trains. Being a beginner I am no going to attempt this project until I have more experiance and all.However having to disassembe each part will be quite a job, and stripping the paint off and reapply new paint will be as well. I am temped to just apply a primer coat and then paint over, but something tells me this isnt the way to go.
I always strip the model before repainting.
Having said that, part of the appeal of the Rivet Counter series is the wonderful small details and nicely applied paint, including small warning labels, that you paid a premium price.
If the repaint is going to be substantially the same color as the factory color, I would try to do anything other than strip the model, especially with its many details. If possible, remove lettering and decal over the spot, if the heritage schemes fit over the area.
These are plastic models. You don't really need primer, especially if you paint over, since I would assume the factory finish is not a high gloss. Just adds another layer of schmutz that will further conceal the small details you already paid to have painted the first time.
You say you are a beginner. Does that mean you've never painted a model train before? Starting with a complicated heritage scheme on such a fine locomotive is what I would call jumping in with both feet, and your best friend's two feet as well.
- Douglas
It depends on how thick the paint and printing is applied at the factory.
Some cars are very lightly pad printed over a skim coat of paint on top of a molded-in-color body. I do not strip these.
Most railroad cars with complicated heralds require stripping. The multicolor herald required multiple paints, and will be noticeable under new paint.
I bought seven "Zebra Striped" Santa Fe locomotives to use as STRATTON AND GILLETTE high visibility locomotives. I could not strip these because I wanted to preserve the zebra striping so I would not need to paint it.
My solution was just to put the SGRR herald over the Santa Fe herald... no problem! It covered up the old herald and looks OK to me.
An old in-process photo on the cardboard layout from three years ago:
-Kevin
Living the dream.
If you're doing this to expensive models, do it right.
But, before you do, get a couple of cheap plastic boxcars and practice both techniques. See how they come out. Both airbrushing and rattle can spraying have techniques to be successful. If your last decal work was applying RAF symbols to Spitfires when you were into WW2 fighter planes as a kid, you should also brush up on those skills.
I have just painted over a couple of models. I've done some tender sides to change the railroad name, but both the original and new colors were both black. I've also just sprayed over a few blue box reefers and redecorated them with home-printed decals. These came out fine, but the original models weren't anything special.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Doughless You say you are a beginner. Does that mean you've never painted a model train before? Starting with a complicated heritage scheme on such a fine locomotive is what I would call jumping in with both feet, and your best friend's two feet as well.
MisterBeasley If you're doing this to expensive models, do it right. But, before you do, get a couple of cheap plastic boxcars and practice both techniques. See how they come out. Both airbrushing and rattle can spraying have techniques to be successful. If your last decal work was applying RAF symbols to Spitfires when you were into WW2 fighter planes as a kid, you should also brush up on those skills.
Whatever you're building, model kits require patience, there's a lot of small little parts that need to be installed by the modeler and sanding involved before you paint. You might have to buy a couple additional pieces such as windows, interiors, wheels or axles if you're kitbashing a vehicle.
I'd love to explore this area of the hobby myself. But I prefer to sit down with a professional expert so he can explain/show me how it's done.
If you are buying a locomotive to repaint it, look for one with a solid paint job and minimal lettering. You can use an electric/battery eraser or even careful scraping with an x-acto blade to remove what lettering is there.
If you intend to use a solvent based paint, I would strip a painted and lettered model. Some paint or, lettering ink may react to the solvent by shriveling and wrinkling, ruining your work. This mainly occurs with graphics on the item you are painting. Water based acrylics should not pose a problem. Before you tackle an expensive piece of equipment, develop your skill on something you don't mind making mistakes with. Good luck.
I have successfully painted over a number of paint schemes without stripping paint or lettering.
Disclaimer - I use Scalecoat, a solvent based paint. I have never been able to master using acrylic paint in an air brush, despite decades of experiance using an air brush with solvent based paints.
I hate stripping paint off models, I will do it when I feel the existing paint is too thick, or too multi colored for a good result just painting over.
Lucky for me, I aquired most of the models I want back when undecorated models were generally available.
I don't see myself buying any expensive decorated models knowing I will need to strip them to paint and letter them for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
The secondary market is still full of great undecorated stuff, and many manufacturers are still offering undecoderated "kit versions" of their products.
That is the other thing, forget the stripping, I have do desire to remove window glass, deal with delicate details, and try to "re-kit" these models to paint them.
I don't mind paying the same price as the decorated version to get an undecorated kit version, I don't mind removing decoders and rewiring to DC, but stripping paint I will generally avoid.
Sheldon
I've found a few Tichy undecorated boxcar kits and purchased a few of their undecorated flat cars. They have a lot of under-car brake parts and of course require painting and decaling. These are great practice for kit building, painting and decorating.
My Northern Potomac color scheme is a blue and orange, but when I bought a Bowser VO 1000 Southern Pacific in black and orange, I just painted over the SP with black and added new details.
In the old days there were undec models and enjoyed painting and decaling them. Now they are so detailed I don't want to deal with it. Future buys will adopt Howard Zane's philosophy, they are from other roads, leased to my railroad.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
azrail If you are buying a locomotive to repaint it, look for one with a solid paint job and minimal lettering. You can use an electric/battery eraser or even careful scraping with an x-acto blade to remove what lettering is there.
Engi1487 azrail If you are buying a locomotive to repaint it, look for one with a solid paint job and minimal lettering. You can use an electric/battery eraser or even careful scraping with an x-acto blade to remove what lettering is there. I see. The CN Tier 4s I wish to use to have a basic simple paint livery with the CN noodle logo and website lettering, as you can see this example of a scaletrains rivet counter version in a picure below. I will look into researching those techniques.
I see. The CN Tier 4s I wish to use to have a basic simple paint livery with the CN noodle logo and website lettering, as you can see this example of a scaletrains rivet counter version in a picure below. I will look into researching those techniques.
Yes, that is a pretty simple scheme to work around.
If you could share pics of the heritage schemes you are planning to impose on these fine locos, we could better advise.
Doughless If you could share pics of the heritage schemes you are planning to impose on these fine locos, we could better advise.
I will most certainly do that. I will draw up some concept art in time and make a discussion thread on it for you and other to see and advice further.
Unless I've forgotten it, I don't recall painting-over an already painted and lettered car or locomotive since when I was still a teen.
Most older plastic models were easy to strip using methyl hydrate, while lacquer thinner was preferable for brass and cast metal. Nowadays, I usually use SuperClean on any type of material, whether metal or plastic.
A lot of older plastic models from Tyco, Model Power, and LifeLike (the proto-no-thousand version) and some others had decent details, but they were often obscured by too-heavy application of paint by the manufacturer. Painting over those will give you similar results, and there'll be no visible detail at all to worry about.
Any of the factory-painted and -lettered rolling stock that I have, were bought for their type and lettering. Everything else (the majority of cars and all locos) were bought either undecorated, or with the intention of stripping them completely and re-painting and re-lettering them to suit my requirements. Most also got detail upgrades.
Each modeller, of course, can use their own judgement on this, but I think that many will eventually regret not doing the job properly.
There's a thread here which shows lots of models stripped, modified, re-painted, and re-lettered, too. Once you get started, it's sometimes difficult to stop.
Wayne
doctorwayne Unless I've forgotten it, I don't recall painting-over an already painted and lettered car or locomotive since when I was still a teen. Most older plastic models were easy to strip using methyl hydrate, while lacquer thinner was preferable for brass and cast metal. Nowadays, I usually use SuperClean on any type of material, whether metal or plastic. A lot of older plastic models from Tyco, Model Power, and LifeLike (the proto-no-thousand version) and some others had decent details, but they were often obscured by too-heavy application of paint by the manufacturer. Painting over those will give you similar results, and there'll be no visible detail at all to worry about. Any of the factory-painted and -lettered rolling stock that I have, were bought for their type and lettering. Everything else (the majority of cars and all locos) were bought either undecorated, or with the intention of stripping them completely and re-painting and re-lettering them to suit my requirements. Most also got detail upgrades. Each modeller, of course, can use their own judgement on this, but I think that many will eventually regret not doing the job properly. There's a thread here which shows lots of models stripped, modified, re-painted, and re-lettered, too. Once you get started, it's sometimes difficult to stop. Wayne
Wayne,
When I do the kinds of projects you typically do, I agree, it needs to be stripped.
My comments were in regard to the OP's premise of buying a high end RTR model with the simple goal of repainting it, without reworking details, making changes, etc.
The nature of how these things are assembled today makes "re-kitting" them a pain in my view. Way different than starting with a "medium" or low detail model with the intent to make it better, add detail, etc.
Removing window glass in modern diesels, removing details that should be applied after the primary paint job, all without damage, is simply not something I am up for.
But then again I don't have to be up for it to meet my modeling goals. I have a large stash of undecorated models yet to build, I have no interest in a project like the OP described, and I keep finding undecorated models on the secondary market all the time.
Lastspikemike Best to start with an undecorated version if you can find one.
Best to start with an undecorated version if you can find one.
Scaletrains does not have undecorated versions of the ET44AC so I will have to and will stick with those decorated, and learn how to strip/repaint myself.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL...My comments were in regard to the OP's premise of buying a high end RTR model with the simple goal of repainting it, without reworking details, making changes, etc....
Yeah, you're certainly right about the high-end stuff and their associated details. To simply repaint such models seems almost pointless...you might obliterate or destroy the fine details, or do likewise with stripping the original paint.If the highly-detailed model you want is not available in the roadname you want, it might be more successful to use a similar, but not so highly-detailed model of the same loco, then upgrade its details yourself, along with giving it a paint job and lettering.
The CNR paint jobs mentioned were pretty basic on the very early orange & black diesels, but then fairly complex on the other early diesels which followed...
...but the ones following the green and gold, and the green, black and gold weren't all that far removed from dip-jobs.The introduction of the "noodle" scheme was a real let-down after the green and gold, but obviously more practical cost-wise. The seargent-striped version, in my opinion, is one of the best (after the green & gold and the green, gold, and black), and not just of CN's offerings, but of all relatively modern diesels. It wasn't all that difficult to apply it to this originally-undecorated Atlas diesel...
...while the North America "peeling-paint map" and the more recent web-site versions look to me to be simply the "noodle" re-worked.
doctorwayne ATLANTIC CENTRAL ...My comments were in regard to the OP's premise of buying a high end RTR model with the simple goal of repainting it, without reworking details, making changes, etc.... Yeah, you're certainly right about the high-end stuff and their associated details. To simply repaint such models seems almost pointless...you might obliterate or destroy the fine details, or do likewise with stripping the original paint. If the highly-detailed model you want is not available in the roadname you want, it might be more successful to use a similar, but not so highly-detailed model of the same loco, then upgrade its details yourself, along with giving it a paint job and lettering.
You are right about that Wayne, as I am worried about how to approciate it. Scaletrains does have their less detailed ET44AC in their operator lineup, but I dont like it as it does not have much finer detail such as the red marker lights on both ends. I dont even know how I would wire brass marker lights if I tried to add them. I had the idea of buying discounter rivet counter CN shells and using those, taking detail off, painting and reapply but again I dont know. Thanks for your impute and photos. I will find a way to make this work in time.
Hi Engi1487.
I respectuflly suggest that unless the shell is in a very simple paint scheme (i.e: Penn Central) paint stripping is the route to take to yield smooth, quality results.
I hope to encourage you with this post. Years back, I found the throught of "stripping paint" an HO scale model intimidating. Sincerely, it's not a tough process at all. It can be challenging as some factory paint finishes are more stubborn than others to strip. But overall, once you find a product that works.....the process is a piece of cake! Below are photos of my past paint stripping jobs:
1. Stripping a NYC P2K Alco PB1 for a friend, who wants it repainted to Santa Fe. I used SUPER CLEAN. Soaked the shell overnight. Scrubbed it with a medium bristle toothbrush next day, and the paint came off without a hitch. (Wear gloves!)
2. LL P2K E-unit shell stripped with 91% alcohol:
91% alcohol works very well for LL P2K, AHM, Rivarossi, Bachmann, IHC, and older run Walthers products. Super Clean works well for a good number of the modern products. Just make sure to wear gloves and safety glasses (toothbrush scrubbing tends to wick the chemical).
Once you finish paint stripping your shell, wash it in warm water with a non-moisturinzing soap (Ivory or original Dawn).
So, don't be intimidated by the paint stripping process or the paint process. We're here to help each other. I was a painting "Klutz" when I started. Now I look forward to painting projects and have fun with it! Give it a go.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
The C&NWbought some secondhand E units from the Kansas City Southern.They slobbered yellow paint on them right over the old paint job. The KCS used vinyl stick on letters and striping, clearly visible under the CNW paint job.I've never worried about stripping models since then. If it's good enough for the Cheap and Nothing Wasted, it's good enough for me.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
AntonioFP45 Hi Engi1487. I respectuflly suggest that unless the shell is in a very simple paint scheme (i.e: Penn Central) paint stripping is the route to take to yield smooth, quality results. I hope to encourage you with this post. Years back, I found the throught of "stripping paint" an HO scale model intimidating. Sincerely, it's not a tough process at all. It can be challenging as some factory paint finishes are more stubborn than others to strip. But overall, once you find a product that works.....the process is a piece of cake! So, don't be intimidated by the paint stripping process or the paint process. We're here to help each other. I was a painting "Klutz" when I started. Now I look forward to painting projects and have fun with it! Give it a go.
I hope to encourage you with this post. Years back, I found the throught of "stripping paint" an HO scale model intimidating. Sincerely, it's not a tough process at all. It can be challenging as some factory paint finishes are more stubborn than others to strip. But overall, once you find a product that works.....the process is a piece of cake!
All of those parts are going to be glued in, or they'd all fall out just by picking the thing up.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
I would suggest this, as it will probably be easier, and that increases the probability this project will actually happen.
Why not use the Bachmann/Spectrum Dash 8-40 locomotive. It can be found undecorated on eBay, and had all the details in bags so there is nothing to disassemble or strip.
There is one for sale now for less than $60.00 with shipping Buy It Now.
That is what I am using for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE heritage unit.
Stripping down a Rivet Counter engine to repaint is not for the faint-of-heart. I've been building / painting engines for years and even had my own business for a number of years, and would always refuse to do a repaint of something of that calibre. Guarantee, you WILL break some of those details attempting to remove them. Hell, I've broken parts just getting the shell off to install a decoder !
Even the high end undecorated versions are time consuming with their endless baggies of detail parts. Those are bad enough, let alone having to remove them all to start over.
Having no experience in any of these avenues, I would say you have a few years of serious model building / painting before you should even consider tearing one of those beasts apart.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Don't be me and not strip it haha. I made the mistake of not stripping my ontario northland gp9 and you can see the old stripe under the orange. It looks alright as a first attempt. In the future I would have sanded down the stripe and tried a thinner to strip it.Tamiya primer works wonders and hid most of the imperfections besides the stripe.
I learned that it is important to keep track of detail parts and paint them before installing. I lost a grab iron on my last project and had to take off the cut bars again cause I had painted them black on accident. I would highly suggest using a cheaper locomotive as others have suggested.
Another thing ive learned is let the paint dry. I have a few finger prints on my first sw7 from me jumping the gun. But remember to have fun! I had a blast on my projects and can't wait to start on my CNW sw1500.
When I couldn't work with undecorated models, I always stripped the paint first. Even if the factory coat seemed to be pretty thin, the paint would show through most factory lettering in my experience. Especially on older models where the lettering is not as thinly applied. First step is always, always, remove details, and anything clear. Though some strippers will not harm clear parts, it's easier to properly strip the paint on a model with most of the details removed. For strippers, I've mainly used Scalecoat's stripper which worked well on plastic models. I also liked 91% alcohol which though it didn't work instantaneously it was very gentle on the underlying plastic. Also the fumes were less awful, as well as being gentler on bare hands. Metal models I'd strip with acetone. I have two brass models to paint but I'm thinking of going for something more aggressive than acetone when I get to those projects.
Alvie
Strip. I have just been learning to paint, and my first try was painting an old Athearn F7 SF Warbonnet body in Boxcar Red (the color we happened to have lying around). Those stripes showed right through the paint. You definitely want to strip the paint first.