Is incredibly detailed freight cars really necessary?

[doctorwayne]

BEAUSABRE

Yes, it's really necessary

If it were necessary, we would have done it ourselves, and in some cases, we did.  Otherwise, it's simply a convenience.

Wayne

[BEAUSABRE]

Yes, it's really necessary

[rrebell]

SeeYou190

 

 

rrebell

A bunch were Ertl which were tooled by Gould which became Tichy.

 

 

I only have one Ertl freight car, but it is a gem.

I had no idea they were the Gould/Tichy models.

-Kevin

 

Found that out when repairing one as many Tichy parts were interchangable with Ertl, I  mean exact fit like coupler covers etc.

[SeeYou190]

rrebell

A bunch were Ertl which were tooled by Gould which became Tichy.

I only have one Ertl freight car, but it is a gem.

I had no idea they were the Gould/Tichy models.

-Kevin

[rrebell]

MJ4562

I see a market for both a few highly detailed models and more good 'enuff protypically accurate but less detailed economy models.  On a small switching layout with one locomotive and five cars I would want a lot of detail.  On a large layout I would prefer more economical rolling stock because the focus would be on the long trains and sweeping overall scene.  

I had actually been thinking about starting my own thread asking what people with large layouts running hundreds of cars do to fill out their roster.  

 

My layout room before the one I am building now was about 600 sq ft plus. Every car was highly detail and I paid an average of $10 for the cars which came to almost 500. Bought them at train shows and e-bay. A bunch were Ertl which were tooled by Gould which became Tichy. Needed repainting and replacing of wheel sets but that was about it.

[SeeYou190]

trainnut1250

I built my roster slowly over the years.

That is the best way to do it.

Over the past three years I have built over 100 freight cars for the fleet requirements of my next layout. It was time very well spent.

-Kevin

[trainnut1250]

MJ4562

I had actually been thinking about starting my own thread asking what people with large layouts running hundreds of cars do to fill out their roster.  

 

I have a medium sized layout with an operating roster of @200 cars. We hold OPs sessions a few times a year (in non-pandemic times).  All the cars on the layout are needed for the OPs scheme. Most of these cars fit into the highly detailed/super detailed category. Most have separate grabs and stirrups all have Kadees, free rolling trucks (mostly metal wheels – it depends) and are set up to run with proper weight coupler height etc.

I built my roster slowly over the years. I love to build cars so at this point I have lots more cars than will fit on the layout. These extra cars are in off layout storage. I often will build cars in batches (I wrote an article about this for another publication) to speed up construction time.

All of the layouts in my operating group have highly detailed rolling stock. Most of us build lots of models, so operators are careful but sometimes things get broken. I do have to fix stuff from time to time. I feel running these nice cars is worth it due to how the cars look. It is great to share them with other operators who enjoy the quality as well.

For those starting out, you can always buy the less detailed cars and upgrade as you feel like it. That is how I started.

 

Guy

 

[trainnut1250]

DAVID FORTNEY

So is it really necessary to pay the high prices of extreme detail if your going to run them on a layout?

Dave

 

 

Dave,

 

Six things: First of all I will be honest and say that the value of things changes so much that my vison of what $50 means today is so skewed from 40 years ago that I have lost track of what “expensive” means. So I am not a good judge of that. 

I try to pay $10 or less for mass produced detailed kits like Intermountain Red Caboose or P2k but that is old school for sure. Many good kits cost far more. I don’t really buy much RTR rolling stock but have paid lots for nice kits – around the price points being discussed here for RTR.  It just depends.

This is a new era in terms of RTR quality. Take a look at a Blackstone stock car or a Kadee box car- awesome detail and pretty clean construction. I might have a hard time building to the same quality as some of the RTR out there from a kit. That build quality and detail might be worth some bucks. In many ways if you figure in the skills and time to build, these cars are a bargain...

Other thing: Detail??  Oh yeah...Bring it on!!! Always more. A gorgeous model is a gorgeous model. I will always be for better detail and more accurate. I got rid of nearly all of my Blue Box stuff years ago and replaced it with high detail stuff – we run it and yes, it can break, but in general it warms my soul every time I see it on the layout. But that is just me and the crowd I hang with...

I build most of my rolling stock. It just never occurred to me to buy them. Part of the reason for that is the expense the other is the joy of building things and of course the other factor is the availability of an accurate model of the prototype you seek - whether it be RTR of kit form. If you want it and can’t get the kit or RTR, then it’s a scratch build.

Last thing: I don’t build everything myself –  When you need many multiples of a car type and the thrill has worn off building the 34^th kit of the same car or when a car is difficult to scratch build and no kit exists, then I do seek RTR relief if possible. That is rare but has happened. My reefer trains are a good example of that.

Dave's Question: So dancing around the semantics of “necessary” for a moment, I would say that Yes, it is necessary to have incredible detailed freight cars in the hobby – just wouldn’t be the same without them.

Guy

 

[L. Zhou]

For rolling stock my expectations of detail are quite low, as long as it looks good overall and I'm satisfied with it, I will take it. But I will also not to hesitate to purchase some pieces for projects, to redo and detail. 

[Overmod]

Dorassoc1

Is there a model-railroad related response somewhere in this history of watches tutorial?

Actually, there is in most of the posts, if you look a bit carefully past the historical recap and expand the OP's question slightly to include buying spectacularly-detailed and spectacularly-expensive cars in the first place.

And the 'responses' say about what you'd expect from the question: some would, some wouldn't; and it's a matter of more factors than just the relative visibility of superdetails.

[Dorassoc1]

Is there a model-railroad related response somewhere in this history of watches tutorial?

[trwroute]

Not necessary for me.  Like some of you, I have done this a whole bunch of years.  I always liked having the latest and greatest.  However, in the last few years, I have discovered that wasn't making the hobby fun for me.  I grew tired of having the same stuff that everyone has, so I sold my Tangent and Moloco cars and am building more Roundhouse, for example, stuff.

The fun for me is building the old American made kit.  In fact, I am planning my layout using American made stuff along with Kato and Roco power.  

Besides, the money I'm saving helps me fund my other main hobby...dirt bikes!

[n012944]

DAVID FORTNEY

But if you put them side by side the difference is very noticeable. So is it really necessary to pay the high prices of extreme detail if your going to run them on a layout?

Dave

 

 

Yes.

[CNSF2]

If you want to run a realistic fleet for your prototype and era (as opposed to just a collection of realistic cars), you'll likely have to make do with a mix of more and less-detailed models. I "ought" to have a helium tank or two, but the only widely-available model of that is the rather crude old AHM, so that's what's running at the moment. At the other extreme, some of the ATSF stock cars I want are only available as craftsman kits. I didn't want to spend $40 and up times 350 for my planned fleet, but to get a certain specific "must have" I'll spend what is necessary. With added detailing and weathering, I find that my Blue Box and Accurail cars mingle reasonably well with higher quality models. To my eye, the most impactful upgrades are: 1) replace thick molded-on stirrup steps (I make my own from staples) 2) add brake rigging where it would be visible from the side. To save $, I make simplified brake systems using the kit castings, bits of scrap plastic, and brass rod. For example, where there are supposed to be two rods going to one end of the car, I just make one. That's good enough to fool the eye into thinking there's a fully-detailed brake system down there.

[Erie1951]

MJ4562

On a small switching layout with one locomotive and five cars I would want a lot of detail.

My thoughts as well. All of my rolling stock have detailed grabs, ladders, and brake rigging for the up-close views on my shelf and switching layout. Once I get my severe spinal arthritis under control with another steroid injection next month, I'll return to working on it and the other projects that have been put on hold. 

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

MJ4562

I see a market for both a few highly detailed models and more good 'enuff protypically accurate but less detailed economy models.  On a small switching layout with one locomotive and five cars I would want a lot of detail.  On a large layout I would prefer more economical rolling stock because the focus would be on the long trains and sweeping overall scene.  

I had actually been thinking about starting my own thread asking what people with large layouts running hundreds of cars do to fill out their roster.  

 

OK, I will answer your question right here.

I just took down a layout that filled 1,000 sq ft room, I'm getting ready to start a new one that will fill a 1,500 sq ft room. How nice, my retirement house is smaller than my "raise the kids house", but it has a bigger train room and a bigger yard.....

The new layout is designed for 35-50 car freight trains, 10-15 car passenger trains, and will stage about 30 trains total.

The double track mainline will be about 400' long.

I model 1954, and I have been at this hobby since 1968.

My roster of equipment includes kits made before I was born, Athearn and Varney metal cars, Athearn, MDC, older Walthers, TrainMinature, Bowser, and other "blue box" type cars from the last 45 years.

It also includes a fair number of wood and resin craftsman kits, and many kit bash projects, some easy, some more complex.

And, I have my share of more recent high detail rolling stock. By recent I mean the last 25 years, starting with stuff like Proto2000 kits, Intermountain, Fox Valley, Spring Mills Depot, and others.

AND, I also have my share of less expensive recent production Athearn Ready to Roll, selective Bachmann pieces, Walthers RTR, etc.

It has taken all these years, but the roster includes a lot of stuff, 1,100? freight cars, 200? passenger cars, and about 140 powered locomotives.

Lots of freight cars were purchased for just $2- $4 back in the day, some have cost much more. But I can't say I have paid more than $40 or $50 for much, if any rolling stock.

I do however outfit most every freight car with about $7 worth of Kadee sprung trucks refitted with Intermountain wheelsets, and genuine Kadee couplers.....

Sheldon 

[MJ4562]

I see a market for both a few highly detailed models and more good 'enuff protypically accurate but less detailed economy models.  On a small switching layout with one locomotive and five cars I would want a lot of detail.  On a large layout I would prefer more economical rolling stock because the focus would be on the long trains and sweeping overall scene.  

I had actually been thinking about starting my own thread asking what people with large layouts running hundreds of cars do to fill out their roster.  

[dti406]

riogrande5761

dti406

Jim Hediger provided the paint chip for the color match on the green cars for Walthers.

Rick Jesionowski

Cool.

So you've got documantation that the magenta DT&I greenvilles were used on the Ford FAST?

I had to go home and check my DT&I books and I found a picture of a Delta Turn that fed the FAST at Delta, OH and right behind the SD38's was a magenta Hi-Cube to go west on the N&W.

Rick Jesionowski

[riogrande5761]

dti406

Jim Hediger provided the paint chip for the color match on the green cars for Walthers.

Rick Jesionowski

Cool.

So you've got documantation that the magenta DT&I greenvilles were used on the Ford FAST?  

[dti406]

Jim Hediger provided the paint chip for the color match on the green cars for Walthers.

Rick Jesionowski

[riogrande5761]

dti406

I am still keeping the Walther's PS Hi-Cubes unless something better comes along, they are still better than the Athearn and they are PS versus Greenville,

The Walthers P-S cars are a bit better looking than the old Athearns.  Really if the Walthers had separate rods on the doors (apparently the newer upgrade ones do), then I'd probably be ok with them long term.  A bit if judicious weathering around the vertical rods may improve the appearance however.

  and the green is the correct color,

They look about right to me but I've never done a critical comparison of the color.

the Walther's Magenta Cars are foobies as the Magenta Cars were either Greenville's or PC X67 cars. Hopefully Dave will do the Magenta Greenville's on a future run.  I used to see the Magenta Cars on the NYC/PC going east or west thru Airline Junction.  They were delivered and originally assigned to the Woodhaven Stamping Plant (WSP Car Code). The DT&I Delta interchange yard serviced both the N&W and NYC with the FAST cars going on the N&W (Ex-Wabash) to Kansas City with some cars forwarded to Milpitas via various routings depending on how the railroads wanted to do the routing, but the UP, SP, D&RGW, WP, MP and RI were involved with the RI dropping out when their track was so bad. Rick Jesionowski

Good to know I dodged the Watlthers foobe magenta.  I usually try to check if I am interested in buying, most of the time.

I haven't ever seen a magenta DT&I on a auto parts train pulled by the D&RGW but if what you say is true, they may have run on the Ford FAST and I just never saw a photo of any.

Jim

[dti406]

riogrande5761

 

 

dti406

 

I got all four DT&I's and a NYC, also an undecorated GB&W version that I will paint for the Ann Arbor as the Annie got all of the GB&W 86' cars.  I will not be selling my Athearn GB&W car that I did as it was the last decal for that car and I don't know what happened to Don Manlick's artwork in order to get any more. Maybe Tangent will do the GB&W car, although you can't run it with the Ann Arbor cars.

Rick Jesionowski 

 

 

 

What about the Walthers P-S 4 door DT&I's?  I have one of the green versions which I've seen on Rio Grande trains, but I don't ever recall seeing any of the magenta-ish versions thru the Rockies so passed on that one.

I've a few Athearn Greenvilles left, but those will probably be sold eventually too (orange D&RGW, brown "dividend logo WP and red Santa Fe is all that's left)

 

I am still keeping the Walther's PS Hi-Cubes unless something better comes along, they are still better than the Athearn and they are PS versus Greenville,  and the green is the correct color, the Walther's Magenta Cars are foobies as the Magenta Cars were either Greenville's or PC X67 cars. Hopefully Dave will do the Magenta Greenville's on a future run.  I used to see the Magenta Cars on the NYC/PC going east or west thru Airline Junction.  They were delivered and originally assigned to the Woodhaven Stamping Plant (WSP Car Code). The DT&I Delta interchange yard serviced both the N&W and NYC with the FAST cars going on the N&W (Ex-Wabash) to Kansas City with some cars forwarded to Milpitas via various routings depending on how the railroads wanted to do the routing, but the UP, SP, D&RGW, WP, MP and RI were involved with the RI dropping out when their track was so bad.

Rick Jesionowski

[riogrande5761]

dti406

 

I got all four DT&I's and a NYC, also an undecorated GB&W version that I will paint for the Ann Arbor as the Annie got all of the GB&W 86' cars.  I will not be selling my Athearn GB&W car that I did as it was the last decal for that car and I don't know what happened to Don Manlick's artwork in order to get any more. Maybe Tangent will do the GB&W car, although you can't run it with the Ann Arbor cars.

Rick Jesionowski 

What about the Walthers P-S 4 door DT&I's?  I have one of the green versions which I've seen on Rio Grande trains, but I don't ever recall seeing any of the magenta-ish versions thru the Rockies so passed on that one.

I've a few Athearn Greenvilles left, but those will probably be sold eventually too (orange D&RGW, brown "dividend logo WP and red Santa Fe is all that's left)

[dti406]

riogrande5761

 

 

dti406

I for one love the new highly detailed cars, just picked up Tangents new 86' Greenville Hi Cubes and the are beautiful.  I will be getting more.

Scalettains new Finger Flats are on the way and will have reinforcing steel loads added soon.

Oh by the way my Athearn 86' Hi Cubes will be on sale shortly. 

Rock Jesionowski 

 

 

Ditto that!  How many DT&I did you get?    I only got one but also got a Southern and 2 SP.  I might get another DT&I when they are re-run next year.  I am looking forward to what others will be offered.

I have a couple of finger racks on their way too.  Cool looking flatcars.

As for my Athearn 86' Greenvilles, I've already got a sale on 7 of them.  I have a couple of the 8 door Thralls that there is no replacement for ... yet.

Jim

 

I got all four DT&I's and a NYC, also an undecorated GB&W version that I will paint for the Ann Arbor as the Annie got all of the GB&W 86' cars.  I will not be selling my Athearn GB&W car that I did as it was the last decal for that car and I don't know what happened to Don Manlick's artwork in order to get any more. Maybe Tangent will do the GB&W car, although you can't run it with the Ann Arbor cars.

Rick Jesionowski

[riogrande5761]

dti406

I for one love the new highly detailed cars, just picked up Tangents new 86' Greenville Hi Cubes and the are beautiful.  I will be getting more.

Scalettains new Finger Flats are on the way and will have reinforcing steel loads added soon.

Oh by the way my Athearn 86' Hi Cubes will be on sale shortly. 

Rock Jesionowski 

Ditto that!  How many DT&I did you get?    I only got one but also got a Southern and 2 SP.  I might get another DT&I when they are re-run next year.  I am looking forward to what others will be offered.

I have a couple of finger racks on their way too.  Cool looking flatcars.

As for my Athearn 86' Greenvilles, I've already got a sale on 7 of them.  I have a couple of the 8 door Thralls that there is no replacement for ... yet.

Jim

[dti406]

I for one love the new highly detailed cars, just picked up Tangents new 86' Greenville Hi Cubes and the are beautiful.  I will be getting more.

Scalettains new Finger Flats are on the way and will have reinforcing steel loads added soon.

Oh by the way my Athearn 86' Hi Cubes will be on sale shortly.

 

Rock Jesionowski 

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

dti406

 

 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 

tstage

Sheldon,

ExactRail released those in 2011.  I was grateful to pick up a couple off eBay a few years later before they were all gone.  I also have a few made my Accurail and IM.

Tom

 

 

 

 

The RIB SIDE CAR COMPANY kits were on the market in 2006/2007 and I purchased several then.

ExactRail was five years too late..........

Sheldon

 

 

 

 

Accurail purchased the molds from Ribbed Side Cars and has now released a couple of them.

Rick Jesionowski 

 

I was wondering about that, thanks for the info.

Sheldon

[SeeYou190]

dti406

Accurail purchased the molds from Ribbed Side Cars and has now released a couple of them.

Rick, good to hear from you again. You have been AWOL and I was getting concerned.

-Kevin

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

SeeYou190

 

 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

The RIB SIDE CAR COMPANY kits were on the market in 2006/2007 and I purchased several then.

 

 

My only ribbed side car was built from a Sunshine Models kit.

When everything you paint is for a ficticious roadname, certain cars become a problem. B&O Wagon Top cars are all for the MIDLAND ROAD, and the PRR round roof cars will be for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.

-Kevin

 

How did you know that? I have a stack of undecorated Bowser PRR round roof cars waiting to be lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL!

Sheldon

[dti406]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 

tstage

Sheldon,

ExactRail released those in 2011.  I was grateful to pick up a couple off eBay a few years later before they were all gone.  I also have a few made my Accurail and IM.

Tom

 

 

 

 

The RIB SIDE CAR COMPANY kits were on the market in 2006/2007 and I purchased several then.

ExactRail was five years too late..........

Sheldon

 

Accurail purchased the molds from Ribbed Side Cars and has now released a couple of them.

Rick Jesionowski