INTRODUCTION - Hi everybody, new member here. Before we begin, I'd like to mention this post could get a little bit lengthy. Thank you to everyone who can help in this endeavor.
I'm a young model railroader and also an industrial architecture enthusiast, and I'm looking for some tips on scratch building an accurate representation of a coal fired power plant, and also how to implement it into my layout where it makes sense. Currently my layout is nothing but an idea, which is great because I want to spend a lot of time figuring out how to implement certain industries, where to place them, what other industries they serve, etc etc. I don't have a specific railroad in mind yet, or even a scale (I am thinking HO, though). I also don't have an exact time period in mind. Ideas are appreciated.
I'm a huge fan when it comes to power plants, mainly because of the important role they used to play in our past and the beautiful architecture the old ones often boast. The power plant I create is going to be the centerpiece of my layout, as I want to have a very accurate recreation of a real power plant and how it operates with a railroad. Another reason for this is I want to show the importance these industries once held... it seems today many people pass power plants without batting an eye, and I really want that to change. I'll probably have some other industries that serve it too, like coal mines or others alike.
THE POWER PLANT - The plant I plan on modeling is the former CEI (Cleveland Electric Company) Generating Station in Ashtabula, Ohio. Sadly, it's been sitting vacant since 2015. This plant played an important role in the surrounding area, as it delivered power to more rural areas and dates all the way back to the late 1920's. The plant also presents a terrific example of Art Deco industrial architecture, on both the exterior and interior.
Here's three pictures of the plant, courtesy of Google. The third image is an old picture of the plant. You might notice it's not as long as the plant is today, that's because they added a new turbo generator to the plant in 1958. You may also notice from the aerial picture that there's a double railroad track loop around the plant, which leads into a hopper room where they'd flip the car upside down to unload the car. The coal was stored south of the road, you can see it from Google's aerial pictures. However, it's all dried up today.
Here I've labeled the main parts to the power plant. The section in green is the oldest section, built in the 20's and 30's. The section in red was built in 1958 for the addition of a singular turbo generator. If you look to the bottom left of the old turbine deck, you might be able to slightly see the remnants of railroad tracks which ran into the facility. They've clearly been disused for decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoc6fYu6J6I - This drone video shows the exterior of the building very well.
INTERIOR - Whether to save history or to answer my curiousity, I did venture over there one day and take a peek inside. If possible, I'd like to model the turbine deck in my build. I think it'd be nice to have the option to remove the roof and operate trains inside the building for whatever they were used for. (Maybe for delivering parts for the turbo generators? Maybe I could use this for modeling the plant while some of it is under construction, and one of the other industries I model could be a manufacturing facility for these machines) Here's a picture I took of the oldest turbine deck. This featured four identical turbo generators. If you look at the bottom left, you can see the railroad tracks that ran inside the facility.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/189597481@N03/50193369427/in/dateposted-public/
CONCLUSION - So, all in all, what should I do to get started on this build? I'm thinking of figuring some way to make blue prints and going from there. What materials do you suggest I use for the exterior/interior? Windows? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know this will be an extremely big project, but I am very patient and fully motivated to get this done.
Thank you for reading!
35filmCONCLUSION - So, all in all, what should I do to get started on this build?
Your first few posts are delayed but that will end soon enough. Please stick it out and join in.
As far as what to do first... that would be to develop the skills that are necessary to build such a model.
How much building experience do you have?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
35film Before we begin, I'd like to mention this post could get a little bit lengthy.
Before we begin, I'd like to mention this post could get a little bit lengthy.
I shouldn't worry about that. Big subject, big effort; length doesn't matter.
But first things first . . . welcome to the forum.
Next things next . . . do you plan to build a model of a power plant? or a model of a railroad that serves a power plant?
More questions later.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
More power to you on your project, young and energetic . . . . good combination. After the decision of scale I would venture into the scale scratch building material available.It sounds like you have the design or plan somewhat down pat even though it might not be on paper yet.I would think that there would be more appropriate scratch building material available in HO scale. Keep us in the loop, sounds like we have another rivet counter up and coming to the Forum.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
to the Model Railroader Forums!
35film...What materials do you suggest I use for the exterior/interior? Windows? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you're planning on modelling the entire facility, I'd suggest taking lots of photos of the prototype, while it's still around, and also a few measurements. You should then be able to scale the photos reasonably accurately.You're likely going to need a good supply of scratchbuilding materials, but you might also investigate some kits that are available: Walthers offered a mostly brick powerhouse, and while it's certainly not the size of the one you're hoping to model, there could be some useful parts in a kit (or several).
Were I building it, the first thing I'd buy would be a couple of 4'x8' sheets of .060" styrene. Even if you don't need it for the exterior walls, it's great for representing concrete foundations, roofs, and interior partitions. It's also thick enought to be used as bracing for walls and roofs, to prevent sagging or warping.Walthers offers decent-looking panels of brick, about 4"x10", and with a little care, they could be assembled into much larger sections - mounting the assembly onto a suitably-sized sheet of .060" styrene would impart a lot of strength.However, the brick sheets are rather brittle, and difficult to cut...I attempted to cut window opening in such a sheet, using a very sharp corner-punch, and it shattered the sheet. Another option would be brick paper, which could be applied to the sheet styrene using either contact cement or or MEK, applied with a 2" brush (or maybe even wider - your project will likely use as many full-size tools as it will modelling tools.
Both Tichy and the former Grandt Line offer a pretty decent selection of doors and windows. The extent of the detail you choose to add will determine how long this project will take, and how much it will cost, too.
I hope that when you start the project, you'll also start a thread here that will allow us to follow your progress.
While nowhere near as large as your planned power plant, this mostly scratchbuilt train station makes a good case for the use of large sheets of heavy styrene...
Up until about 6 years ago, we had a pretty big powerplant (4000MW) on our side of Lake Erie, too.
Wayne
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Here's an old postcard of the Ashtabula plant I have in my collection:
CEI_power by Edmund, on Flickr
CEI_Bula by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
I always liked this model from CMR (Custommodelrailroads.com)
Welcome. I'm not a scratch builder so I'll let them give you advice. In a "previous life" I was in industrial sales and one of our biggest customers was the Philadelphia Electric Company. I agree with you, the old brick buildings were architecturally beautiful. I had the opportunity to walk around a few of their facilities. Power companies can definately give you lots of options for both modeling and rail operations. Good luck.
BillwizIn a "previous life" I was in industrial sales
Did you happen to work for GE?
There is a lot of real estate in there... You might want to try a section, like the one with the chimneys, and do a background picture for the rest, or do a cut-off of the building, and place them against the back of the scene.
I know some folks in our area are reproducing old buildings using 3D printers. That's another option if you have access to that technology...
Simon
gmpullmanHere's an old postcard of the Ashtabula plant I have in my collection:
That is a great postcard picture Ed.
I need to wonder who would buy that. I cannot imagine getting a post card from someone who was travelling with a picture of a power plant.
maxmanI always liked this model from CMR (Custommodelrailroads.com)
That is a great structure. It actually looks kind of steam-punk.
I love it.
SeeYou190That is a great structure. It actually looks kind of steam-punk.
It is based on a prototype in Philadelphia. I believe that the structure still stands.
CMR usually has a table at Timonium. I think they bring a copy of that model with them.
BillwizNo, I worked for a small industrial distribution firm
maxman SeeYou190 That is a great structure. It actually looks kind of steam-punk. It is based on a prototype in Philadelphia. I believe that the structure still stands. CMR usually has a table at Timonium. I think they bring a copy of that model with them.
SeeYou190 That is a great structure. It actually looks kind of steam-punk.
CMR offers a few other companion structures:
Cabobbled together, these buildings would go a long way to building up the campus of the OP's power plant, and would make a very nice 'centerpiece' to his model railroad. But, the OP hasn't yet answered my basic question: whether he's building a model of the Ashtabula Power Plant, in which case these would be a nice representation, but not a faithful detailed model. (Note: OP is still new and under moderation, so a delay in response is reasonable. My plan is to wait for further correspondence before getting too far ahead.)
I'm very enthused to see where the OP wants to go with this.
NOTE: All images 'borrowed' from the CMR website. Not intended as an endorsement for those guys.
This thread is near and dear to my heart. I am a semi-retired mechanical field service engineer who has worked his entire life rebuilding steam turbine generators in power plants just like the one the OP wants to model. I have been slowly working at building my own version of a vintage power plant, although it has no particular prototype. I have a lot of photos I have taken at "vintage" power plants, most with the art deco exterior and, more impressively, the art deco interiors. At this point in the discussion, I don't have a lot to offer, but I will be monitoring the discussion, and hopefully at some point I can make a useful contribution.
Sorry all, I've been responding on my phone but I guess they haven't been going through.
I will be building the Ashtabula power plant, not one inspired by it. I think a bit of kitbashing is possible, mostly for the interior, but I think most of the exterior is gonna need to be completely scratch built. This is mostly because power plants are so different on the exterior.
I think I can use kits for the substation and other exterior buildings, like the pumphouse.
35film Sorry all, I've been responding on my phone but I guess they haven't been going through.
Nothing to worry about. New members are moderated, and there is an awkward delay when trying to have a back-and-forth discussion. After five posts (I think), Steve will decide that you are not a threat to the serenity of this forum and will allow you to post in real time. You appear to have two forum accounts. You might want to sort that out.
35film I will be building the Ashtabula power plant, not one inspired by it. I think a bit of kitbashing is possible, mostly for the interior, but I think most of the exterior is gonna need to be completely scratch built. This is mostly because power plants are so different on the exterior. I think I can use kits for the substation and other exterior buildings, like the pumphouse.
This is good news. Problematic, but good news. You have made a decision and have a clear path forward.
I've researched a little, and I cannot find much on this particular plant. The few photos I found were the same ones you found and they are fuzzy and low-res. I have Google Earth Pro, and I have the same aerial photo and street-view photo showing the plant as it stands today. I found lots of photos of other plants (both interior and exterior) from a similar era, size, and style. That would be good news if you were building a generic plant to place on your layout, but you're not.
Have you visited the plant recently? Do you have specific measurements? Sketches? Layouts? Arrangements? Do you have lots of closeup photos showing minute details? One way to work out dimensions is to count bricks. Really. Do you have any particular drafting skills or a predilection towards engineering or architecture? There are some here who might be able and willing to help.
In general, are you psyched up to tackle this project?
You will need the step up transformer and coal pile with tracks for trains to bring in the coal and staging for the empty cars to be staged for return to the coal mine.
May need coal conveying system as well.
I do not know the plant you are modeling but have worked in many coal fired power plants.
ROBERT PETRICK After five posts (I think), Steve will decide that you are not a threat to the serenity of this forum and will allow you to post in real time.
It looks like the OP is up to three posts... almost there.
JohnnypopperI am a semi-retired mechanical field service engineer who has worked his entire life rebuilding steam turbine generators in power plants
Generous Electric or We-Sting-Youse?
I have a general understanding how the moderation process works for new forum members, and I give the OP a lot of leeway in his responses and the timing (and built-in delay) of those responses. I am very excited about what he is undertaking, and I will gladly offer any assistance or encouragement.
I do not want to hijack this thread, so I will move any discussions of whatever info and advice I might have to offer to my layout build thread.
I am scratch building a structure that is similar to the OP's. Here's a photo.
It is the power plant at the Buffalo Bill Dam near Cody, Wyoming, just a little ways down the road from where I live. It is similar in style to the original plant at Ashtabula and from about the same era. The one thing that both projects share, and it jumps out right away, is that these buildings would not look out of place on any college campus.
On my thread, I will detail all the steps I take and the decisions I make in the process of going from a photo to a reasonably accurate scratchbuild. As I have stated many times, I am pretty fast-and-loose with the rules, but I think the process might help the OP along on his project.
[quote user="maxman"]
We-Sting-Ho-Use is where the bulk of my experience has come from (design and service), but starting about 10 years ago, I work on all brands.
I am definitely motivated to tackle this project. I have visited the plant somewhat recently, but I don't have very many pictures or measurements. Counting bricks could definitely be possible.
I think I should probably head back there soon and take a lot of pictures on my phone for measurements and details. I think I can also use that drone video online to get a basic sense of exterior detailing.