John, I have a BLI SW7 and its a very smooth runner and the sound is good. I set a CV to get rid of the nasty horn echo.
I seen BLI steam engines run at the club where I was a member of but,don't want to spend $250-300.00 on a DCC/Sound locomotive since I perfer using DC because my United 2-8-0 still has its original Pittman DC70 motor and I perfer brass..It's a nostalgia thing.
I think that Sunset 2-8-2 will fill by expectations on my planned end of branch switching layout.
For a third engine I might get another United Santa Fe 2-8-0 or keep looking for a 4-6-0. I'm really hook on the looks of that 4-6-0.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Brakie--
Good luck with the Sunset. Hope it works out well for you!
Now you have as much ATSF steam on hand as I do, except my current engine is a BLI 3800 class 2-10-2, and not brass.
I did place pre-orders for two BLI 4000 class 2-8-2's on Saturday with my local dealer, and may add more.
I also have a DM&IR yellowstone 2-8-8-4 with the greenish-grey boiler (MTH) due in August. Couldn't resist trying one of the last MTH HO engines.
John
A runner, not a shelf queen. That would be some work, so good idea passing up that one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
PRR8259 So Larry, what did you find out? How did they run?
So Larry, what did you find out? How did they run?
I got the Sunset 2-8-2 because it has a can motor and ran smooth. A beautiful locomotive. I paid cash instead of trading my OC GP7.
The Hallmark 4-6-0 has a A-Line Mashima motor and looks like its been rewired for all wheel pickup.
The issue I have with this engine is the plating on the drivers is almost worn down to the brass. I passed on this one.
As a follow up.Tomorrow afternoon I have a appointment to see those engines again so, I'm going to mask up look them over again and see how those engines run.
Adam Pomeranz is a young (early 20's) brass dealer, who does the same as Guy: specifically requests how brass models should be shipped.
He also posts the horror story photos over on Facebook of what he actually received when buying models from some Ebay sellers. They do not all comply or even pretend to understand the (what should be crystal clear) directions.
Please consider yourself warned.
Kevin,
While I generally agree with your positive opinions about Brass trains, their valuation is on the high side for the items I follow. I tend to think of them as the "full retail" option for used brass. I have consistently beaten their prices by careful shopping on Ebay and other places. That said, I do agree that they are honest and pack stuff well.
The downside I have had from Ebay sellers with brass is the packing. I now send a note requesting and defining careful packing and offering to pay more for the shipping to get it...Not sure if the note has an effect or not.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
PRR8259 Also, since Larry is looking for Santa Fe steam that was still "alive" in 1953, I don't want to say this, because I'm trying to find these myself: the BLI 2014 run Paragon 2 modernized Santa Fe 2-10-2 is most definitely a winner, despite any previous comments I might have made (one had a funny valve gear motion for me a few years back). I'm not particularly a 4-8-4 fan per se, but BLI's latest versions of the Santa Fe 4-8-4 should be nice indeed. Most of them were still alive during 1953. So there's actually a lot of Santa Fe steam to choose from.
Also, since Larry is looking for Santa Fe steam that was still "alive" in 1953, I don't want to say this, because I'm trying to find these myself: the BLI 2014 run Paragon 2 modernized Santa Fe 2-10-2 is most definitely a winner, despite any previous comments I might have made (one had a funny valve gear motion for me a few years back).
I'm not particularly a 4-8-4 fan per se, but BLI's latest versions of the Santa Fe 4-8-4 should be nice indeed. Most of them were still alive during 1953.
So there's actually a lot of Santa Fe steam to choose from.
John,
My buddy had one of the 2014 BLI ATSF 2-10-2s. Ran great and looked good - a bit of a beast though...big locomotive..
Larry,
Yep those boxcars are one of the "gateway" models.
I have seen some of those 4-6-0s when searching for brass on Ebay - there is a certain run that has excellent/well above average for brass, detail. While I'm sure the other posters are right about the running qualities, still might be fun to get one, even if it is out of date, if it runs decently.
Another (blasphemous) possibility is to put the boiler shell from the ATSF brass loco on a Bachmann spectrum 4-6-0 chassis to solve the running issue. I did this with another model and it worked great.
CN Charlie--
Really, that is fantastic.
I have no one locally, or within even 100 miles that I know personally, who can disassemble a brass engine to do repairs without causing cosmetic damage. (Some repair techs can be ham-handed based on my past experiences. Fix one thing and damage something else, just like Tim Allen on TV in "Home Improvement").
I do my own repairs to a point, but there are certain things I'm not comfortable doing which include removing main drivers, soldering/unsoldering crank pins, and/or re-quartering drivers. If an engine needs anything like that, I send it out to a pro.
Replacing missing driver springs, cleaning and lubricating, minor adjustments of drivetrain to run smoother, much of that I can do without damaging the models.
Braikie,
I recently purchased my first brass engine as I wanted a model of a CNR K5a Hudson. I bought it from brasstrains. It was painted and looked as good or better than the photos but it ran poorly( they said it ran ok). I tried to fix it but didn't have good results. I then found there was a fellow in my city with 40 years experience fixing and painting brass. I sent it to him and he fixed a lot of problems in the drive, one set axle bearings upside down, bent drive rod, cracked frame, missing universal( tubing instead). Once done it now runs as good as a BLI mikado I have and that is saying something for an engine that had 80" drivers. He installed a decoder and it just creeps on speedstep 1. Anyway all that was done for $100 CDN or about 75 US. Perhaps you can find someone nearby who can do something similar. I found this fellow at my LHS. He had the repairs done in a day and told me he had repaired several examples of that model so knew what to look for. The model was made by Samhongsa in 1978.
Based on having this fellow nearby I will not hesitate to buy a brass engine running or not, painted or not if the price is right.
CN Charlie
Ah I stand corrected. I was looking at the scrapped date. That's my bad.
The PRR rented 12 ATSF 5011 class 2-10-4s due to J1s all needing major repairs, so it was cheaper/time saving to simply rent the 2-10-4s for Columbus. By december of 56, they wre returned, and in 1957, PRR shipped 6 surplus J1s from the East.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
No worries. Just providing options so you are informed.
Charles--
Last Santa Fe steam operation is well documented, ending on August 27, 1957: one 2-10-4 #5021 and one 4-8-4 #3780 finished out as helpers through Abo Canyon, out of Belen, NM, in late August 1957. Last engine in service under steam was #3780, when it returned to Belen, NM, on the evening of August 27, 1957. It was simply the last one back.
There was NO actual revenue use of Santa Fe steam anywhere after that date. Whether there were any excursions or not I do not know, but that was the last date of regular service steam on Santa Fe. No engines remained under steam after that date, but some were stored serviceable for a future run that never occurred.
I think if you research, three 2-10-4's and two 4-8-4's were used out of Belen that last summer. They were engines recently shopped that had good miles left in them.
Many Santa Fe 2-10-4's were used on the PRR in Ohio during 1955 and 1956, I believe, because PRR had scrapped too much steam too fast and was power short. Those engines were subsequently returned to Santa Fe, and some ran again for Santa Fe, before the end came.
The PRR J-1 engines had slightly higher starting tractive effort. The PRR men stated the J-1 could start more train, but the 74" drivered massive ATSF 2-10-4 could roll the train faster, which is what they were built to do out west.
PRR8259 Rapido has a Canadian 4-6-0 in the pipeline that is really neat too.
Rapido has a Canadian 4-6-0 in the pipeline that is really neat too.
I prefer Santa Fe ..
Here's why.
When I was a member of the Columbus HO club back in the 60s we had a member that had a rather nice collection of brass Santa Fe steam and as as a teenage I really like the looks of Santa Fe's steam engines. I bought a 1950 Class 2-8-0 to switch the freight yard with on visitor and operation nights. I later bought a United U.P 0-6-0 to do this work. IIRC there wasn't a Santa Fe 0-6-0 available at that time.
BRAKIE I do recall back in the 60s 80% of the steam locomotives at the Columbus HO club was PFM/United,Sunset, Balboa and Tenshodo.. I had a Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 and a PFM UP 0-6-0.
I do recall back in the 60s 80% of the steam locomotives at the Columbus HO club was PFM/United,Sunset, Balboa and Tenshodo.. I had a Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 and a PFM UP 0-6-0.
Ah interesting, I'll be honest I havent done enough research on the subject matter(there seems to be very limited info on the ATSF online in general...atleast compared to info on the PRR), but end of steam on the ATSF was around 1955-56, with 4-8-4s and 2-10-4s lasting till 1959.
I also am not a fan of the 4-8-4s and especially the 2-10-4s(the rigid frame looks too long, and I prefer smaller engines), but they were the ones that lasted the longest.
I agree, that 4-6-0 does look lovely. The large wheels and simplified valve gear reminds me of the engines in the lone ranger! Heck with prototypicality, I have an ATSF 4-4-2 class 1400 that started my ATSF passion, yet I also claim to model 1950s.
Charles: There are links on the Santa Fe hysterical society's website to images of the actual lists of what Santa Fe motive power was in service on what division as of January 1, 1951, 1953 and 1955 (and selected earlier years).
There were still a bunch of 4000 class 2-8-2's in service (not stored awaiting disposition) on January 1, 1953. By January 1, 1955, the numbers had shrunk.
You can find exactly which engines were assigned to what division.
Since the Los Angeles division Dieselized early due to concerns about steam engine smoke, and possibly some bad water, many of the engines that had plied Cajon Pass were transferred east to other divisions, including the Pecos division, etc. So engines that were on the Los Angeles Division can be seen to have moved east.
trainnut1250Welcome to the dark (steam) side.
Guy, I started down the dark side around 2000 when I started collecting KD 40' boxcars with thoughts on using a United Class B 2 truck Shay for a short line based loosely on the Graham County RR in North Carolina that once operated with a three truck Shay.
At 72 I figured if I wanted to model steam now is the time that's why I bought that Santa Fe 2-8-0.
My plans is to have a 2-8-0,2-8-2 and yes a 4-6-0. The 4-6-0 was added after seeing how sweet looking they are.
Trainman440PS the 2-8-2 is a must have for any santa fe steam modeler, with over 100 of both the 4000 and 3160 class! Meanwhile the thirty 468 class 4-6-0s were gone by 1939.
Charles, That's sad news about those 4-6-0s being gone by '39.. However, seeing those are sweet looking locomotives its hard to say no.
As a 15 year old teenager I worked a part time job during the summer as bagger at a A&P grocery store and saved the money for those two brass steam engines.
Based off of their 2-10-2, BLI's ATSF 2-8-2 looks really good, and I am very excited to purchase one or two of them.
The reason I have the sunset one was simply because it was listed at $140(seller didnt know it was brass) on ebay. I was going to resell it, but after seeing how well it ran, decided to keep it.
I agree it is risky buying anything used thats $$$ on ebay, but that being said, ebay policies greatly favor buyers. Even if the seller says no returns, and the description details every characteristic of the item, and clearly says "sold as is no returns", the buyer can still get a return with a full refund. I learned this the hard way as the seller. Its not good to abuse the system, but that atleast assures me that Im not getting scammed when I am purchasing my items.
Anyways, back on track. If you do decide to model the ATSF, the sunset 2-8-2 will not disappoint you.
iirc, atsf 1953 steam mostly operated 2-10-4s, 4-8-4s, and 2-10-2s. Other older/smaller engines were being replaced by diesel. The steam engines left were commonly used in freight and helper service.
Bachmanns 2-10-0s have thicc running boards. Once you see it, you cant unsee it. Also, it is impossible to get the chuffs to sync with the engine without using a cam. as a modeler who is bothered by unsynced chuffs, this bothers me.
Bachmann's Russian decapod 2-10-0: Santa Fe inherited 3 from KCM&O, didn't like them, and they were gone by the mid-thirties. I'd almost buy the Bachmann anyway, but it's not quite my cup of tea appearance-wise. I sorta like the Frisco version with the doghouse better than the ATSF version, and I like the piping on the Frisco a little better.
PRR8259There is a "challenge" with BrassTrains valuations of models: Their valuations don't tell you if a particular model is a "good runner" or not. Some models that don't run well are actually rare and still can command serious cash just because they are scarce. You have to rely on individual descriptions of the models listed and actually available for sale. However, their main description is regarding how noisy the model is.
There is not much variation in my brass collection because I only buy the models that fit my roster.
Sunset USRA models, Key USRA models, and a smattering of random PFM/United models to fill out some variety.
Nearly all have been bought from Brasstrains. Never once have their descriptions been incorrect or misleading. They are honest in their pricing, decriptions, and shipping. They pack their models better than I can believe.
I have never unpacked a model and been surprised by anything. Everything is always exactly as represented in the online description.
In the past four or five years I have only seen videos of the very expensive models they sell. I do not recall a time when they posted videos of every model.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
There is a "challenge" with BrassTrains valuations of models:
Their valuations don't tell you if a particular model is a "good runner" or not. Some models that don't run well are actually rare and still can command serious cash just because they are scarce. You have to rely on individual descriptions of the models listed and actually available for sale. However, their main description is regarding how noisy the model is. There are models that might run quietly but not actually that well?
I'm not at all saying they (BrassTrains) are not honest.
My hunch is that BLI's diecast model of the Santa Fe 4000 class which is now in the pipeline will be better than those Sunset mikados. With a diecast boiler, the BLI model should track and pull really well, and by now they've learned to go with separately applied piping relative to too much molded on stuff. Plus, for those that want it, the dcc/sound/lights/smoke will all be there, whereas the Sunset brass models are pre-dcc and will be lacking on some fronts.
Assuming the brass engines run fine and are in decent condition, I would swap with the sunset 2-8-2. Those have can motors and super quiet gearing. Sunset (not prestige) has yet to do me wrong with their solidly built engines and smooth quiet mechs.
I have a Sunset 4000 class atsf 2-8-2, and while it has a few dimensional issues(boiler sits too low, headlight mounted a tad too high, pilot sticks out too much), if you're willing to work on the engine or forgive its looks, the engine performs flawlessly!
I agree with the above, early PFM/United has a loud gearbox and poor motors, but are well built.
Hallmark is a hit or miss. Either they are perfect, or garbage. I've seen some amazing products from them, but I also had to deal with an engine where the insulation between the wheel tire and the wheel centers disintigrated, meaning the engine would short as soon as you placed it on the track. A real shame cause it ran fine when you placed leads onto the motor.
I think the sunset 2-8-2 is a great trade, but the hallmark one is more questionable.
PS the 2-8-2 is a must have for any santa fe steam modeler, with over 100 of both the 4000 and 3160 class! Meanwhile the thirty 468 class 4-6-0s were gone by 1939.
Like others have said, I would have to see them run.
I'm not a swap and trade sort of guy, so I would want to buy whatever else I wanted outright and keep what I already have, even if I was changing eras, etc.
I have no opinion regarding Santa Fe steam, brass or otherwise, I don't really follow western roads.
Sheldon
trainnut1250 Larry, Welcome to the dark (steam) side. No opinion on the brass you are considering as I model the SP. I would suggest that you see the brass in question run before making any trades.. Guy
Welcome to the dark (steam) side. No opinion on the brass you are considering as I model the SP. I would suggest that you see the brass in question run before making any trades..
This. See it run and then make your decision. Have seen too many things go just the opposite of what is commonly heard - something everyoen claims runs like junk, runs just fine, and somethign that everyone says is really smooth be a complete piece of junk. When things are made by hand and not just mass produced on equipment that ideally ought to make the 10,000 example exactly liek the first example, you're going to get a lot of variation. Sure, you can buy 3 BLI locos and odds are pretty good all three will be just fine. But buy 3 examples of the same brass loco - you might get one good one and two junkers, or two good ones and one junker, or 3 good ones, or 3 junkers.
DrWJust bear in mind that the values they list are in the ballpark of their (BrassTrains') retail prices. Good luck to you if you try to fetch this price as seller (e.g. on eBay).
The prices in the BrassTrains buying guide are based on several selling points, including eBay. It is a very honest and well researched data base.
I have found their prices listed tend to be as accurate as possible. It does bug me that my brass collection has now dipped way below the $10,000.00 value it once had according to their site data.
PRR8259 They say they have enough pre-orders already to now go ahead and make the BLI ATSF 4000 series diecast 2-8-2, and have begun production. They will re-advertise it soon, and I plan to order two or three of them myself. It might arrive in early 2021, subject to any Covid-related supply chain issues. The model is in the works.
John, That might be the better choice.. I've seen BLI steam locomotives in action at the club I was a member of and they ran and sound good.
I can use my Tech 6 to switch between DC/DCC Sound and use F8 when needed.
I nedd DC because of my United 1950 Class 2-8-0 still has its Pittman DC 70 motor.
I will probably have a end of branch line switching layout with at least one produce warehose-I also had a place in my heart for those orange Santa Fe and PFGX reefers.
At 72 I have a strong urge to model a steam era layout and this thought first came up 20 years ago.