Hi y'all. Hope everyone is safe and staying healthy. I'm scratchbuilding a brick boiler house that was part of the CNJ engine servicing. IT's simply a 20 ft by 40 ft building with a large window at one end, two smaller windows and a door on the back wall and one window on the front wall. Also there are pilasters at the corners.
From Sanborn maps and the few prototype photos I been able to collect, I've created wall plans/templates in Sketchup. But how to create the scale brickwork. Of course, there's styrene brick sheet, Evans Designs high quality/resolution brick paper and other brick sheet materials, but I'm fascinated by a 2015 RMC article by scratchbuilding maven Bob Walker who built a huge engine house by resin casting wall modules with molds created by laying INDIVIDUAL bricks as molds!
There was zero description of how he did that. I know, seems like a ton of work when there are great options as mentioned above, but as this little boiler house would be upfront in a diorama of the prototype, well...I'm intrigued. Does anyone have any info/experience of actually laying HO scale brick courses?
Thanks,
Ed
cnjman721Does anyone have any info/experience of actually laying HO scale brick courses?
I did a kinda-sorta version of this once, using molded rows of bricks as the thing that was 'resin-cast' in RTV a la Clouser (I know this dates me badly) and wiping paint-based 'mortar' into the joints to lay the courses. This was for a scene where a wall was being erected, showing some of the actual bricklaying detail including the story poles at the corners and some stringlines modeled with that old joy, #36 Vicryl.
For brick 'casting' my advice is to go almost entirely the other way: make molds for the actual face of the wall that can be 'tiled' on the mortar lines, and treat them like molds for 'stampcrete' to cast and then make up the visible walls.
I highly respect someone with the skill and patience to make up individual brick molds (and probably to demold and trim each individual brick) and then mortar and set the wall prototypically. You'd almost have to work on the equivalent of a surface plate with depth indicators unless you used relatively-soft spacing strips for the horizontal course mortar lines (perhaps with appropriately-struck pointing at the visible face) as setting them 'prototypically' would probably involve something like an operating microscope. Doable... but I shudder at the sheer time involved in doing it right.
OvermodI did a kiinda-sorta version of this once, using molded rows of bricks as the thing that was 'resin-cast' in RTV a la Clouser
Do you have pictures of this you can share?
I would love to see this model.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Well, I suppose that if you wished to build the structure literally brick-by-brick, it could be done (and be a source of great pride). However, were I building a brick building, I'd work with walls already representing brick construction, then alter them, as needed, to match the prototype that you're attempting to build.
DPM offers modular walls which might be suitable starting points: add doors/windows/pilasters/etc. as needed, either from the various wall sections which they offer (cut a suitable window from a wall section not otherwise suitable for your prototype, and then cut an appropriate opening into the wall section with no cast-in openings.
Another option is Walthers brick sheets, also cast in styrene, but as larger plain sheets than those from DPM. These are a rather brittle plastic, but with care and the proper tools, you should be able to create the walls as described.
Here are some DPM structures, built mostly from as-offered parts, but with some altered to suit the oddly-shaped building lots that were available...
...or this former Vollmer roundhouse, rebuilt as a locomotive shop, altering the wood-supported brick over the doorway, second track from the right...
...by replacing it with this...
...which was then altered to this...
...and then to this...
...and this...
...then this...
This small brick office building, headquarters of Creechan's Fine Fuels, was built using the Walthers styrene brick sheet...
I simply cut openings for the door and windows (from Tichy and/or Grandt Line), then cemented strip styrene onto the face of the brick to represent the sills and lintels. The sidewalls and rear are plain .060" sheet styrene, as there's little of them visible.
Creating your own walls, brick-by-brick, may prove very satisfying, but using readily available materials may not only get the job done faster, but there's a very good chance that it might look even better, and allow you more time for other projects, too.
Wayne
Wayne & guys --
Nice work there. Very nice, indeed.
A follow up question: Does anyone have a favorite brick sheet brand (ie Walthers or others) What brand of brick material is the highest quality/most realistic?
Thoughts?
DPM offers a wide selection of wall parts with various window styles and sizes, along with pilasters and cornice details and a variety of heights, but their main drawback, if you wish to create a monolithic brick wall of a larger size is the stock size of the wall pieces, at 2 7/16" in width.
The Walthers brick sheets, also in styrene, are 4" tall, with the brick detail 9.75" wide. The main drawback, in my opinion, is the difficulty in cutting openings (for doors and windows) in it. I originally attempted to do so using a corner-punch, which shattered the sheet into several pieces.
An attempt using a #11 blade in my X-Acto dulled the blade rather quickly and a utility knife was only slightly better.
I found it preferable to drill holes where openings were required, then use an X-Acto saw blade in the regular X-Acto knife-handle to cut out the openings, finishing them with a suitably-sized file.
The base of this water tower, one of several on the layout, uses the Walthers brick sheet, and, fortunately, only one opening is needed on each...
Another option, if you can find some of decent quality, is brick paper. The ones shown below are paper, but are photos of real buildings, with the paper cemented to .060" sheet styrene...
I have not been able to find decent brick paper locally, nor will photobucket allow me access to photos of some which I bought in the late '50s/early '60s. I'll attempt to gain access to the photos, and will add them here if successful.
Hello All,
cnjman721Does anyone have a favorite brick sheet brand (ie Walthers or others) What brand of brick material is the highest quality/most realistic?
What scale are you working in?
I model in HO.
I'm kitbashing two (2) Walthers Norther Light & Power kits to make one larger building to cover the booster that sits on my pike.
The brick detail of the walls is very fine. I couldn't imagine trying to replicate this brick by brick.
As far as printed patterns try Textures.com. You will need to register to download the free pattern files.
For 3D sheets check out JTT Scenery Products under "Architectural Model Parts" > "Plastic Paternd Sheets".
For the slate roof of my kitbashed structure, I used their Scalloped Edge Tile in HO.
I used a chalk texture rattle can paint to simulate the color and texture of the slate tile roof.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Holy crap I never heard of laying individual bricks in HO. Does not sound fun...
Color of brickwork relates to the area. East coast brick is usually dark red. In Colorado around here tends to be more orange-ish/yellow in color.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
doctorwayne I have not been able to find decent brick paper locally, nor will photobucket allow me access to photos of some which I bought in the late '50s/early '60s. I'll attempt to gain access to the photos, and will add them here if successful. Wayne
Hi Wayne, Don't know if this site would help you with Canadian Bricks but this might be worth a look,
http://www.wordsworthmodelrailway.co.uk/brickpaper.html
It is English/British but you never know!
Hope this helps
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
Building an HO building with individual bricks, is right up there with casting my own fishplates and rail spikes.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thanks, Trevor. I wasn't yet actually in need of brick paper, but merely lamenting that it didn't seem to be available. I still have a lot of structure kits to build and a bunch of Walthers styrene brick sheets and DPM walls and details...I will likely run out of time before running out of stuff to build.
Wayne --
I found a company -- EvanDesigns -- that allows you to select brick styles and colors and print your own sheets (they suggest using matte photo paper). Still, I'd like to do weathering so it would seem a bit trickier to wether paper as opposed to styrene but not having ever before used brick sheet, I can't say.
My original thoughts stemming from that Railroad Model Craftsman scratchbuilding article mentioned at the begining of this thread intrigued me about how the author made his own resin casting forms by laying individual bricks or rows of bricks. That's how he said he created his own brick sheets. Trouble is, there was absolutely zero reference in the article as to how to do that. Specifically how /where did the scale bricks come from? Might he have just cut rows of Walthers brick sheet and impressed it into a mold? Doubt he used "individual" HO scale bricks! BTW, loved the comment in this thread about that being like casting one's own spikes and fishplates!
Anyway, really appreciate the heads up on the difficulty of working the Walthers plastic sheets. My boiler house is pretty much as simple as your water tower base - just 4 walls, right angles albeit with a sloped roof and windows and doors.
I will probably reach out to the editors at RMC to see if I can get a contact for the author and ask him directly. If I succeed and find out what he did to cast his own brick sheet, I'll post ot back here.
In the mean time, many thanks, stay well and happy Fourth of July to all.
The more I think about this, the more I think a 'master scratchbuilder' would duplicate a number of individual 'scale brick sides', each a little scale model of the surface texture and imperfections of particular bricks in a particular style, then cement these to an appropriate face sheet perhaps with strips and spacers on a wheel to adjust them into register. He would then make RTV sheet molds of these sections and carefully tile castings made from these molds into the large wall areas.
If I were doing this I'd make the several castings with epoxy tinted to give a varied base color, to minimize the detail painting and then weathering on the brick faces. Doing this would involve not modeling the mortar lines along with the brick, but instead leaving relatively deep recesses between the bricks, into which 'mortar' would be laid with a syringe or similar tool, and then tooled to strike/rake the visible mortar lines to the style desired, this simplifying the methods used to join the individual sections. As with floor tiling, with enough subsection patterns it's likely there would not be visible pattern repeat in the brickwork... which might be a thing to watch for.
You could of course use the 'typical' way to get mortar into the wall, by wiping paint across and then carefully cleaning or even sanding the protruding bricks. The issue here is that steps to detail the brick faces, including painting or stippling them, would have to account for the mortar lines (or survive the wiping process).
Thinking back to Brian's stone-viaduct project, it might be fun to take a properly 'anamorphically-corrected' photographic image of a brick wall, and print it on something like decal paper at scale corresponding to a 3D brick sheet. (Or use the white glue on heavily-sanded paper used for signs on brick...) Then you get the advantage of photorealistic color combined with the 3D surface texture in oblique lighting...
cnjman721...I found a company -- EvanDesigns -- that allows you to select brick styles and colors and print your own sheets (they suggest using matte photo paper). Still, I'd like to do weathering so it would seem a bit trickier to weather paper as opposed to styrene but not having ever before used brick sheet, I can't say....
Well-rendered brick paper can look very convincing, but weathering is easier to do convincingly when the surface is three dimensional, allowing "dirt" to collect in the horizontal mortar lines, but not so much on the face of the bricks.
It occurred to me that you could use the DPM wall panels to create larger panels, both taller and wider, if necessary, simply by buying panels of the same type, then cutting them to remove the blank recessed ends and/or the top or bottom details to leave plain pieces with brick detail only.
To make them wider, cut the vertical edges that are to be mated so that the vertical mortar lines between full bricks can be preserved on one portion (or split between the two faces to be joined) and the half bricks along the cuts will re-assemble as full ones.
To disguise the joints, coat both mating surfaces generously with solvent cement - two or three applications are preferrable to one heavy one - then, working on a smooth and impervious surface (glass is a good choice) bring the two edges together very firmly. The softened plastic will ooze out, so simply set it aside until it fully hardens. Once it does, use a chisel-type blade (bevelled-edge against the brick detail) to remove the oozed-out stuff, then the back edge of a #11 blade to clean-up any mortar lines requiring such attention.
Theoretically, you could create a panel of almost any width, but if it gets too wide, it might be wise to back it with .060" sheet styrene or at least some good-size styrene strip, which will help to prevent the wall from taking-on an unwanted curve.
I used a somewhat similar (also simpler) technique to utilise most of the front and rear walls of this kit...
...to create a longer structure, using .060" sheet styrene for the unseen back wall (and the sub-roof, interior partitions and floors).It required trimming the two ends to be mated so that the window spacing matched that of the rest of the structure, then revising the mortar joints so that the stonework looked similar to that of the rest, too.The revised joint is somewhere within the 10th vertical panel from either end...
Doing it with the DPM brick will be a little more involved, but certainly easier than brick-by-brick, even if you need only to make a pattern for a brick mould.
Here's the finished version...
Wayne et al --
OK guys, I have an apology to make... Had I turned more pages in the RMC archive, I would have come to answer the question I posed at the start of this thread and saved you all a lot of time and kindness in your thoughtful and well-illustrated replies!
It turns out that Bob Walker (Master Scratchbuilder) DID write about and illustrate his technique for building scale brick walls brick-by-brick. HOWEVER...
1) It wasn't really brickwork at all, but rather he modeled STONE WALLS not brick and
2) It wasn't brick-by-brick, it was row of bricks carved from basswood strips and laid tightly row by row then vertical gaps/mortar lines carved into the wood.
The article appeared on page 84 of the June 2015 RMC.
He used the basswood "wall", male to cast an RTV mold and then create the wall with plaster. Here's a link: https://www.qgdigitalpublishing.com/publication/?m=59407&i=612287&p=84&pp=1
Fascinating detailed technique with impressive results ( https://www.qgdigitalpublishing.com/publication/?m=59407&i=612287&p=88&pp=1 ) but I think I'll go for DPM wall panels!
Again, sorry if I've wasted your time when I should have kept turning pages in the RMC archive to get the answer!
All the best,
cnjman721OK guys, I have an apology to make... Had I turned more pages in the RMC archive, I would have come to answer the question I posed at the start of this thread and saved you all a lot of time and kindness in your thoughtful and well-illustrated replies!
No problem! This is an interesting thread with lots of great ideas for future reference.
FWIW, if you want actual HO scale individual bricks, they are available on eBay. I can't see building a wall with them, but they would be great for a brick pile in a construction scene:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/100-Extremely-Tiny-Miniature-Bricks-HO-N-scale-Red-railway-model-wargame-diorama/161304880942?hash=item258e85272e:g:wbwAAOSw2CFdnk7y
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
doctorwayneWell-rendered brick paper can look very convincing,
I built a couple of small HO structures using brick paper for the 4th SGRR layout.
They looked 100% amazing in photographs, but not quite as convincing in real life.
cnjman721Again, sorry if I've wasted your time
This was not a waste of time.
Interesting thread
I have two methods I prefer to model brick as they are quick and easy. One I do with oven bake clay which can be rolled out and baked after the brickwork is finished. The nice thing about this method is it can be curved for a retaining wall while it was still warm out of the oven.
This little experimental example was done in about 10 minutes before baking and then about another 5 minutes to put the colored washes on. I have more recently learned drywall compound smeared in the joints looks great. A little too dark in my color choices and had I took more time with the pizza roller the brick rows would have been more evenly spaced.
The other method I prefer the most is scribing foam. I used to use a ball point pen but the ink bleeds through the drywall compound when I fill the mortar joints. A rounded pencil tip works the best for this technique.
My wife saves me the styrofoam meat pans hamburger, steak and chicken comes in. The styrofoam pans are only about 1/8 to 3/16" thick and will work great for making buildings out of. I plan on making a brick roundhouse this way in the near future.
TF
TF --
Thanks for the interesting ideas!
Track fiddler had I took more time with the pizza roller the brick rows would have been more evenly spaced.
had I took more time with the pizza roller the brick rows would have been more evenly spaced.
If you don't mind explaining a little more detail, I assume you carve out the mortar line rows and vertical mortar lines after rolling out a sheet of clay. Is that right? If not, how do you "carve" the bricks?
Also, interesting is the use of the meat pack styrofoam. Do you back the styrofoam with styrene or other backing for structural strength and if so, what adhesive do you use?
Bob Walker's RMC article referenced in this thread showed how he lined up basswood strips using graph paper. He literally glued the wood strips to the graph paper to keep the mortar lines aligned. I wonder if taping graph paper to the styrofoam sheet and burnishing along the printed lines into the foam might be a good way to scribe the lines into the foam, at least to provide guides for the final scribing.
And thanks all for your responses, this has been a kind of how-to article unto itself!
Best,
Sure
With the oven bake clay I actually have a roller machine I can set at different depths to roll the clay out.
I found a spacer tool at Michaels I can impress on either end of the clay for the brick spacing. My old method I took a ruler on the spacing impressions and lightly rolled a pizza cutter along the ruler, then took a jeweler screwdriver and impressed the brick lines.
I found this method somewhat time-consuming, it works but it takes more time.
More recently I made a proof (The top one) and created a negative imprinting the bricks in with a scale lumber end. I spray it lightly with Pam, put a clay sheet over the proof and a layer of wax paper, then roll it with a wallpaper roller. I have gotten more consistent at it than the examples shown here after I found a wider roller.
They look really good after they're painted and the joint compound is put in the joints. If I remember where I put them I will post them later today. I like the clay for retaining walls but I prefer foam for larger projects.
P.S. As far as the meat packing foam backing, I have not made a building yet. I've done some samples and like the results. In N scale I do not think I will need any backing. In HO, one could always glue railroad board to the back of the foam which would make it quite strong. They sell railroad board at the dollar store. Two great big sheets for $1. I always use polyseamseal from Menards for gluing foam. It's the best.
I found where I put my stack of stamped bricks. This is what they look like when they are finished. These are about 3" by 5". Between paint, hair dryer and drywall compound, I can make these things super quick.
They ain't perfect but what brick wall is? I'm sure I could sand the edges straight and put them together on railroad board with a few support splines glued on back, fill the joint with more drywall compound and you wouldn't even be able to tell it's more than one piece put together. I'll have to try that sometime and see.
Track fiddlerI found where I put my stack of stamped bricks. This is what they look like when they are finished. These are about 3" by 5". Between paint, hair dryer and drywall compound, I can make these things super quick. They ain't perfect but what brick wall is?
They ain't perfect but what brick wall is?
First: I encourage everyone who's contemplating this type of work to read up on the actual theory and practice of structural vs. veneer construction. Pay PARTICULAR attention to the various types of bond (which manifest as different patterns of end vs. side dimensions in the visible pattern). The "sideways" bricks act to hold the lengthwise courses together. A wall made entirely with bricks laid sideways will have little resistance to a number of forces. See this introduction to different types of bond (the kind TF is using is 'header bond' when the overlap in successive courses is exactly ½ brick width)
https://gosmartbricks.com/10-most-popular-types-of-brick-bonds/ (there is also a link near the beginning to a discussion of brick type that may be useful to modelers)
I wish I could show the pictures that Kevin was requesting because they show how a real brick wall is laid. You start with a level foundation, whether this involves breaking bricks or using other material to achieve it, and you then establish a 'movable' level reference by putting up 'story poles' (which have a levelable base and calibrations for the reference height of each set course) and then one or more strings (to be pulled to straight tension without real sag) for the reference 'line'.
I lay each course so when knocked in each brick is cross-leveled and its outside top edge is precisely on line -- note that this sets the mortar line by default. Then I butter on the mortar with my cross-trusses or whatever incorporated, and set the next course, buttering the adjacent end or side of each new brick and tapping laterally (with a gauge or spacer if desired) and then down to set. If you tap a bit too much you knock it gently out and add a bit more mortar. This will result in the characteristic 'bond' pattern appearing on the face of the wall.
Periodically you clean up the mortar lines, and rake the joints appropriately for appearance... again, know your styles of rake and the reasons for them.
One reason story poles are used is that they automatically compensate for any slight or trending error the bricklayer may have in any particular course. There have been eras where masons have intentionally built some irregular coursing into the design for "aesthetic" reasons, but they knowingly compensate this to stay within the known strength of the materials as fabricated.
Overmod
You are always such a treat and that's all I have to say about that
I've been in construction for over 35 years and there is more than one way to do anything and do it right to last and that's all I have to say about that
We ain't building a church here
Track fiddlerWe ain't building a church here
(NOTE that this is only a matter of verisimilitude: the methods TF describes for making the walls, and the idea behind them, are still valid, and I for one appreciate his willingness to provide them here.)
What this suggests is that we look to see if there IS substantial use of fascia brick in roundhouse construction (probably in the last generation of steam structures?)
Overmod 35 years in construction and you make brick in irregular courses that are all headers? I've only had my contractor's license for 26 years, but I also knew better than that by the time I was out of college...
35 years in construction and you make brick in irregular courses that are all headers? I've only had my contractor's license for 26 years, but I also knew better than that by the time I was out of college...
I don't even know why I'm doing this. I do believe this thread is about examples of simulating brick for modeling. Basically we create cosmetics with the seeing is believing factor. It's a hobby and a very enjoyable one at that, until someone along the way puts it to rocket science
But since you did go to college and you do want to factor in prototypical practices of erecting a brick wall correctly.
You did forget your wall ties
And your weep cord
I don't think your wall would hold up for very long with all that condensation moisture, expansion and contraction behind the wall with no tie backs to secure it properly or weep cord for the moisture to escape not to expand the wall out
For now I'll continue to keep things simple gathering ideas from others and sharing things that I know. It's what makes this forum fun. I think that's how it's suppose to work around here
Track fiddlerI don't think your wall would hold up for very long with all that condensation moisture, expansion and contraction behind the wall with no tie backs to secure it properly or weep cord for the moisture to escape not to expand the wall out
You must not have been reading the part about reinforcement in the mortar lines, but that's OK. You did point out that any internal reinforcement is invisible in a model, which is the take-home -- I did think that style of wall tie was more common in veneer walls than structural brick, which was the thing I was discussing.
Meanwhile, of course a proper cavity wall will have wicking. Again the visual effect of this in HO scale is vanishingly small (and come to think of it, I don't see it in your samples) so you might want to provide a couple of pictures of proper wicking in different types of construction to guide modelers -- I'm all for verisimilitude in detailing.
Overmod (NOTE that this is only a matter of verisimilitude: the methods TF describes for making the walls, and the idea behind them, are still valid, and I for one appreciate his willingness to provide them here.)
I did appreciate your addition to your post
Thanks for that
Track fiddlerOvermod You are always such a treat and that's all I have to say about that
TF: I love your brick roller walls. I have used oven bake clay for all kinds of press-molding but never rolled it out, yours look fantastic.
When we finally see pictures of Overmod's layout, I am sure it will make anything built by Ben King look like an silly attempt at modelling.
In the meantime, I am happy if the finished product looks good from 18 inches away. If anyone ever breaks out a Starrett surface guage to measure the individual courses of my HO scale bricks, they will be escorted out of the house.
I believe I have mentioned there is a reason I rarely invite model railroaders over to see my layout(s).
Track fiddlerTrack fiddler wrote the following post 20 minutes ago: Overmod (NOTE that this is only a matter of verisimilitude: the methods TF describes for making the walls, and the idea behind them, are still valid, and I for one appreciate his willingness to provide them here.) I did appreciate your addition to your post
Thanks Kevin
I have seen many fine examples of your modeling through the past years. I've always really admired your fine craftsmanship on your custom paint and decaling of your freight cars. Your bench work methods in that one thread of yours dropped my chin to the floor