cowman PC101, Thank you. I got it off last night. The push it UNDER the door part is what did it. I had been trying to push in and lift with my fingers, I was short of hands. I hadn't tried to slip it under the door. Thank you all for your ideas and comments. Looks like the directions should be revised again. Thank you, Richard
PC101,
Thank you. I got it off last night. The push it UNDER the door part is what did it. I had been trying to push in and lift with my fingers, I was short of hands. I hadn't tried to slip it under the door.
Thank you all for your ideas and comments. Looks like the directions should be revised again.
Thank you,
Richard
Oops, it already posted.
PC101 Thanks Doctorwayne. It just dawned on me, I've been doing it wrong by the instrustions since the early '70's. I've been putting the screws down through the weight and in to the frame.
Thanks Doctorwayne. It just dawned on me, I've been doing it wrong by the instrustions since the early '70's. I've been putting the screws down through the weight and in to the frame.
That's the way I do it after Gooing the weight on.. I then put the screws down through the top. I can paint the bottom of the caboose without worrying about the screw heads.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
PC101Doctorwayne, you say you have both copys (early pre '60 and late post '60 would be my guess) of the instruction for this Athearn Steel Caboose with the screws coming down from the inside through the weight and in to the frame. Could you show it here for some to see the difference? Posting pictures is difficult for me with a photo hosting site. Thanks.
Yes, I have two instruction sheets from different times, and while they're both different, both, as I mentioned earlier, show the screws for the trucks being inserted from below, and the ones for holding the underframe in-place also inserted from below.
However the screws for the underframe are also meant to hold the weight to the floor and the floor to the frame. The holes in the weight, and those in the floors, meant for those screws, are clearance holes (they're not designed to hold a threaded screw, but merely allow it to pass through, unimpeded.
The drawing in the earlier instruction sheet shows both those screws and the ones for the trucks being inserted from the bottom - that's correct for the truck screws, but not for the ones intended to hold the weight in place. Inserted from the bottom, they will cut a thread in the holes in the underframe, but not even touch the holes in the floor, nor those in the weight. The drawing is incorrect.
To hold the weight in place, the screw is inserted, from above, into the clearance hole in the weight, and then through the clearance hole in the floor, and then, using a screwdriver, threaded into the smaller hole in the the centresill, thereby securing the weight to the floor, the floor and underframe together, and, in additionholding the underframe tight to the floor and the portion of it securing the couplers, also tight to the draughtgear boxes.
Here's the older instructions...
...and the newer one....
...and a photo of one of my cabooses disassembled, showing both through-the-floor-from-above screws located beside the clearance holes in the weight and in the floor...
The original instruction diagram was incorrect, and the newer one was also incorrect. I have not seen a correct version, so that may explain why some modellers were not overly impressed by the kits, with their weights flopping around inside the car, and the couplers either drooping or falling out.
Wayne
cowman, holding the car in the upright position, take a very small screwdriver, (1/16'' tip, Craftsman #41673, 2 x 40), wedge the tip under the door bottom sill and the platform. Now slowly lower the screwdriver handle (the shaft of the screwdriver hopefully will slighty move the platform down while slowly lifting the door sill and the tab will slips loose. KEEP SLIGHTLY PUSHING THE SCREW DRIVER TIP UNDER THE DOOR SILL SO AS NOT TO SLIP OUT FROM UNDER THE DOOR SILL AND SCRATCH UP THE DOOR. IF NOT GLUED, THIS WILL WORK. I'M DOING IT RIGHT NOW WITH FOUR ALIKE ATHEARN STEEL CABOOSES WITH THE SCREWS THAT COME DOWN FROM THE TOP, THOUGH THE WEIGHT AND IN TO THE FRAME (POST '60) PLUS TWO THAT HAVE THE SCREWS GOING UP THROUGH THE FRAME AND IN TO THE WEIGHT (PRE '60).
I'm not yelling, just need to be clear.
cowman, If you drill and tap or use a self tapping screw (2-56) through a Kadee box and mount the box under the platform, you will go up through the platform with the screw. You can trim a brass 2-56 machine screw to be flush with the platform and paint/weather the tip to make it less visable and so your tiny crew do not trip over the screw sticking through the platform.
Doctorwayne, you say you have both copys (early pre '60 and late post '60 would be my guess) of the instruction for this Athearn Steel Caboose with the screws coming down from the inside through the weight and in to the frame. Could you show it here for some to see the difference? Posting pictures is difficult for me with a photo hosting site. Thanks.
Trucks removed, several failed attempts later.
Brakie,
With the frame in place I can't see the tab, how did you pry on it to release it, push on the base of the door? They may als have some glue on them, as the body was glued to the floor. I have successfully seperated the sides, but don't know about the ends.
When you did cut the coupler box off, did you just use the bottom of the Kadee box when you replaced it, as the floor is the top of the box on the originall? Did you have to sim the car much for correct coupler height?. Does the weight interfear with putting a 2-56 through the box?
Looking like surgery may be in order. If I can get to the tab with the box off, I'll add some weight to it also.
Thank you for the attention to the problem,
Or use the A-line tool to drill and tap the post on the Athearn car so it accepts a 2-56 screw. Then just trim the nubs on the sides of the box so the metal clip sets level and screw the clip to the box.
SeeYou190None of my Athearn cabooses had the metal coupler cover. If you look at the drawing posted by Trainman440, it shows the no-cover Athearn underframe that I am familiar with.
Kevin, By the looks that caboose kit dates back to the 50s... The give away is the sprung trucks.
Every caboose kit I built since the 60s has solid trucks and a metal clip except my favored Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 2 window caboose.
I also had two Hobbyline cabooses and all of my cabooses rode on Central Valley caboose trucks
SeeYou190 John-NYBW That was certainly a good idea. Anybody know when they made that change? As far as I know, the only Athearn freight cars that did not have metal coupler covers were some tank cars and some cabooses. And as others have mentioned, apparently older tank cars and cabooses had metal coupler covers. Every Athearn Boxcar, Hopper, Covered Hopper, Refrigerated Boxcar, Gondola, and Flat Car that I have built came with metal "snap-fit" coupler covers. All of these were replaced with Genuine Kadee coupler boxes. -Kevin
John-NYBW That was certainly a good idea. Anybody know when they made that change?
As far as I know, the only Athearn freight cars that did not have metal coupler covers were some tank cars and some cabooses.
And as others have mentioned, apparently older tank cars and cabooses had metal coupler covers.
Every Athearn Boxcar, Hopper, Covered Hopper, Refrigerated Boxcar, Gondola, and Flat Car that I have built came with metal "snap-fit" coupler covers.
All of these were replaced with Genuine Kadee coupler boxes.
-Kevin
I was looking through some of the cars I have stored on shelves and found a RTR Athearn boxcar. It has no roofwalk which indicates to me it represents a car from the 1960s or later which is why it isn't on my 1956 layout. It has a screw on cover plate over the coupler box the way most manufacturers do it now. I can't remeber when I bought it but I'm guessing it was about ten years ago.
The only time I've replaced the old Athearn coupler boxes with KD boxes was when I inadvertently stripped the plastic nubs that hold the clip in place. I used to do that quite frequently before I learned how to do it right. It's not a problem when you first clip it on but if you ever have to replace the coupler, and I did a lot when I converted from the old horn hooks, there was a realy danger of stripping those nubs.
John-NYBWThat was certainly a good idea. Anybody know when they made that change?
Living the dream.
I've never bought a piece of Athearn rolling stock, either kit or RTR, that didn't have that clip on coupler cover. I have to admit I haven't bought much Athearn in recent years. I've gone with Accurail for inexpensive shake-the-box kits and almost all my RTR is from other manufacturers. I was unaware they had gone to a different coupler system. That was certainly a good idea.
Anybody know when they made that change?
BRAKIEIt sounds like John's talking about the metal coupler box cover that snaps onto the coupler box.
None of my Athearn cabooses had the metal coupler cover. If you look at the drawing posted by Trainman440, it shows the no-cover Athearn underframe that I am familiar with.
Not sure about older models. I am certain all my Athearn cabooses were 1990 or later vintage. Also, I never had a bay window Athearn caboose, so I have no knowledge of them.
SeeYou190 John-NYBW The cover plate on the coupler boxes will tell you if it is an Athearn. If it has a u-shaped metal cover that clips to the plastic nubs on the side of the coupler boxes, it's an Athearn. That is not true on cabooses or some tank car models. See the drawing several posts above. On Athearn (at least all I have assembled) cabooses, the coupler box is part of the underframe casting, and is plastic. -Kevin
John-NYBW The cover plate on the coupler boxes will tell you if it is an Athearn. If it has a u-shaped metal cover that clips to the plastic nubs on the side of the coupler boxes, it's an Athearn.
That is not true on cabooses or some tank car models. See the drawing several posts above. On Athearn (at least all I have assembled) cabooses, the coupler box is part of the underframe casting, and is plastic.
Kevin, It sounds like John's talking about the metal coupler box cover that snaps onto the coupler box.
There is a very low "snap" when the metal coupler box cover snaps into place.
John-NYBWThe cover plate on the coupler boxes will tell you if it is an Athearn. If it has a u-shaped metal cover that clips to the plastic nubs on the side of the coupler boxes, it's an Athearn.
The cover plate on the coupler boxes will tell you if it is an Athearn. If it has a u-shaped metal cover that clips to the plastic nubs on the side of the coupler boxes, it's an Athearn. If so, be very careful how you remove it. It is very easy to strip those little plastic nubs off the side and then you have nothing for the cover to clip to.
I never liked that Athearn couple system. When I first converted from horn hooks to KDs many years ago, I stripped a number of those plastic nubs off the couple box before I learned how to work the plate off without damaging the coupler box. Athearn has been using that coupler system for the 40+ years I've been in this hobby and probably a lot longer than that.
PC101Just be carefull not to let the st screw split the plastic post.
I have done that over the years and simply cut both coupler boxes off from the frame and used the KD coupler box. Once I get them centered I Goo them in place then use a 2-56.
I been using Goo for sixty years and like it much better then super glues.
doctorwayneI didn't have much success disengaging those tabs, as there's very limited clearance. Wayne
Wayne, My method is to remove the trucks and use a small flat tip screwdriver to gently pry on those tab and they usually pop free.
I've been known to Goo and screw the weight in place and super glue the body on to the frame since there is no real need for me to remove the body.
cowman...Knowing the ends are held in by tabs helps, as looking at the completed car they are not really visible....
I've not needed to remove the caboose's body from the underbody, but in the one shown in the first 3 photos (in my previous post) the ends of the weight are very close to the inside of the ends. I didn't have much success disengaging those tabs, as there's very limited clearance.
If I can keep this thing online, I'll respond to your kind answers. Yesterday I couldn't stay online for the life of me.
Thank you all for your comments and especially to Trainman440 for the diagram (one didn't come with the completed caboose) and Dr Wayne for the photos.
The diagram appears to be the correct one, as it includes the bottom of the frame serving as the bottom of the coupler box.
The 3rd picture Dr Wayne put on shows the 2-56 screw, however the illustration shows it going up in, but the photo shows it driven down through the weight and floor, into the frame.
Good thing you folks came through with the diagram and photos, as my house is lacking a person who knows how to put photos into the computer, say nothing of posting them on the forums. I really should learn how.
I will try to get it apart, hoping the glue isn't holding too much. Knowing the ends are held in by tabs helps, as looking at the completed car they are not really visible.
Will see if I can get to working on it tonight.
Thanks again to all,
I edited my last post to include a photo which didn't show on the first time around. It clearly shows the threaded-end of the screw which holds the weight and underfame in place, and also keeps the plastic coupler cover-plate, which is part of the underframe, tight on the couplers' draught gear boxes.
BigDaddyYou are right, it's a caboose, I was thinking of boxcars and probably not Athearn at that.
No, your thinking right BigDaddy, on the Athearn (BB) Box Cars. The 50' I would just catch the edge of the weight (would look like a half moon cut/punch out) and on the 40' Box Car I would have a full circle cut/punch out in the weight. Then with the weight in place between the frame and floor, pin punch a starting hole on the coupler post. I would start with a smaller drill bit then what I wanted to finish (tap size) through the coupler post and into the plastic floor (A-Line makes a jig to center a drill bit and tap now-a-days). Next clear ONLY the coupler post with the correct clear drill bit. Next drill the floor compleatly through with the correct tap drill bit. Now tap the floor but not completely through so the screw bites into the plastic floor.
Now you can use the Athearn metal coupler box cover that will never fall off, with a Kadee coupler or cut off the Athearn coupler box/frame and use a Kadee plastic coupler box complete. Both jobs using the plastic floor as the screws mounting support.
When you are done, check your coupler height.
BRAKIE'S 2-56st screw into the plastic coupler post is another quick and excellent way to secure the Athearn clip on metal coupler box cover. Just be carefull not to let the st screw split the plastic post.
I drill and tap the plastic post then use a short brass machine thread screw so as not to go clean through.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyI've found in my coupler conversions, the weight extends over the coupler box. Drilling a hole through the weight, with a pin vise and drill is tedious at best.
Huh? I've built several of Athearn's BB cabooses and freight cars over the years and neveer seen the weight over the coupler box. Look at the instruction sheet.
I drill the coupler box just enough for a 2-56 self taping screw to snug down.
BigDaddy I've found in my coupler conversions, the weight extends over the coupler box. Drilling a hole through the weight, with a pin vise and drill is tedious at best.
I've found in my coupler conversions, the weight extends over the coupler box. Drilling a hole through the weight, with a pin vise and drill is tedious at best.
I have a punch it's called a '' Junior hand punch #5 by Whitney'' mine is over 70 years old, it has assorted punchs and dies for dirfferent size holes. Makes quick work in plastic, steel weights or lead sheet.
maxmanAssembly diagram above seems to show screws going in from bottom.
I have two sets of assembly instructions, with the earlier one indicating that the weight must be purchased separately (even though it's shown in the drawing). The newer instructions have ony an exploded view, with no written assembly instructions, but both instruction sheets show both the truck attachment screws, and those for holding the frame in place, to be inserted from the bottom.
While this is appropriate for the trucks, it is incorrect for the frame-holding screws, as the holes in the car's floor for those screws are clearance holes - the screws are inserted through the clearance holes in the weight and the ones in the floor, then screwed into the underframe. I don't ever recall seeing a correction of the instructions, but if the modeller screwed them into the underframe, they would not hold anything, the weight included, in-place. If you stored the caboose in its original box, on its side, the weight would flop from the floor to the side...and might flop back onto the floor when you put the caboose back on your layout.
If, for some reason, you removed only the trucks, the underframe would simply fall off once the truck screws were removed.
Here are some photos (I hope)...
The head of the screw nearest the top of the photo holds the underframe in place, and the threaded end of the truck-mounting screw is shown below, screwed into the car's floor...
...this view shows only the business end of the truck-mounting screw, along with a largish nut, one of two, providing some extra weight - very important if you use pusher locomotives on heavy trains, as I do...
Here's a view of the underside, with the end of the top-driven screw, between the coupler's draught gear box and the trucks, holding the underframe and metal weight in-place, and the head of the screw which holds the truck in place - it also holds the underframe to the floor, as it's threaded into a boss on the underside of the car's floor, trapping the underframe between the trucks and the floor.
The picture below is of an Athearn bay window caboose, and while the floor and frame set-up is similar to the cupola-type caboose (top-driven screws holding weight and underframe in place, bottom driven screws holding trucks and underframe to floor, I've eliminated the top-driven screws by cementing the underframe to the floor and cutting the portions holding the couplers free from the frame, cementing them to the cut-off ends of the floor....
This was done to allow access to the car's interior, in case window "glass" ever needed repalcement, as otherwise the end ladders would not permit disassembly...
I have 16 floors for Athearn cupola-type cabooses, along with 16 underframes, and all have the holes in the underfame to accept the threaded end of the screws driven from the top side of the floor, and clearance holes in the floor to allow the use of the top-driven screws. I hope to eventually build several styles of "wooden" (styrene) cabooses to fit those floors and frames.
The above instruction sheet is very old. Look at the trucks. And yes the couplers do not have the metal clip covers. So safe to say it's the Steel Cupola Caboose. OP says plastic covers, so instructions could match the OP's caboose.
DrWayne is correct with his above post about the screws if the caboose came with a weight.
Not knowing if the caboose is a cupola, bay window or wide vision type but all three of them have the weight, if supplied, fasten with two screws down though the top. As in the screw goes though the weight then the floor then into the underframe. Instructions dated ''Revised 3-73''. And yes a plastic clip on the body at the end doors snaps into the floor.
Now if it's a bay window, can you lift off the roof walk? If so, stick a small screw driver down though the roof hole at the ends and unscrew the screw. The fun part is getting it back to gether again. It can be done.
If you can get any of the other roof walks off (hopefuly not glued in place), you can drill a hole in the roof above the screws (only needs to be large enough to pass your screw driver and screw head) and when done, you just plug or not plug the holes which will be under the roof walk.
I tell you if we could ever upload photos from our own files this would be wonderful not having to deal with a photo hosting site.
Double post. Well that was strange. Contents deleted.