Hi all
Well Model Railroading is a very broad church with a pew for everyone Toy Trains is a very seperate denomination as demonstrated by the seperate forum.
freelancing and protolancing are in my book two names for the same thing as the railroads don't exsist except as a prototype in a basment or attic somewhere.
The same rules apply to propper model railroads and freelance ones end of story.
You only need point 1 and point 3 on your list any other car kit can be suitably spray painted to your livery and extra detail as apropriate added.
point 4 is irelevant unless building the Hobbiton & Isengaurd Central
Everything you need to build a freelance model railroad is avalable one way or another so no problem.
You can wallet permiting also get some very nice 3D prints something not avalable back in the day.
Anything not easy to get can squarely be laid at the feet of model railroaders for demanding ever better more detailed product ready to run in their favorite railroad colours also the I want it now mentality of many not wanting to assemble kits or scratch build or even just paint and decal models.
Manufacturers are in it for profit not our benefit so will only make what sells and this changes over time, so it was and so it shall always be.
I too have the veretable mountain of train supplies but there are as there will always be things that would be nice to have.
I don't know would I build freelance again, I think mine is more mish mash central than freelance but yes I will continue with what I like and having fun.
It is all easily sumed up thus "if you are not having fun then you have the wrong hobby"
When it comes to model trains every one is going to do it their way and rule one always applies.
And if no one makes it a work around will be found somewhere somehow.
regards John
Travis, to follow forward some of your points, you mentioned that you have multiple "choices" of locale and Rairoad that interest you.
My response to "why freelance" is simple.
In my 50 years at this I never had any desire to build one layout of one prototype, then tear it down and build a different layout of a different prototype, etc.
In fact, only once in all these 50 years have I dismantled a layout just to change it, and even then I did not change the roads modeled, or theme, just the layout design.
So freelancing let's me mix stuff, within reason, that might not work as well following a prototype.
Sheldon
I mean for me the first question with Freelancing is, why do it now? Maybe in an era when undecorated kits were more common it made more sense. I don't really know if paint or decals is as big of an issue as OP suggested though; somebody with moderate digital skills and a proper printer can make all the decals they need at home these days. First I should clarify that for this post, I refer to freelancing mostly in the "create an original and fabricated railroad" and not the other variant of "generic location but with prototype trains."But now... with so many ready to run high detail prototype products on shelves, I just don't see the appeal of freelancing myself. The few times freelancing has intrigued me, it usually gets shot down when after a bit of research I find a real railroad in the location I wanted the freelanced railroad to go that I was previously unaware of.However... with that said; I have a few friends who are very much into freelancing. What they get out of it is worth mentioning, since I think it perhaps explains best to somebody like me what the appeal of it is. They certainly seem to enjoy the challange of desiging graphics, plotting routes where there were none in real life, finding potential online customers, building locomotive rosters. I have one friend who has used Google to map out a hundred mile system of railroad lines for his freelanced route. I can't deny, there is a satisfaction they are getting with that kind of freedom and chance to blend historical research and creative liberty. Really the closest I ever came to freelancing was when I first discovered OO9 gauge. I sketched a railway that had a pseudo-Ffestiniog influence on a piece of paper and thought how neat it would be to import from Britain some Bachmann OO9 pieces someday for the railroad, besides since Bachmann lacked a lot of the Ffestiniog prototypes it made sense to freelance based on the limited market availability. The thought was that with a few Quarry Hunslets and WW1 Trench Surplus locomotives I could create something reasonably similar in spirit, but not an exact replica, especially considering the downsides to any project that requires shipping rolling stock from the UK to where I live in the US. Problem I ran into though was shortly afterwards discovering Peco/Kato's Double Fairlie project... In an instant the idea of freelancing went out the window as soon as I realized plastic mass manufactured Double Fairlie's would be available in a few years, so why create a "Ffestiniog-like" railroad when the rolling stock was now available to just do the Ffestiniog from the get go? My rough sketch was the Ffestiniog already, with a harbor like station in a place similar to Porthmadog, a "Cob" across the bay to the engine sheds, then a sharp climb up over a helix and into a slate quarry town higher up the mountain; really the only limitation to doing the prototype was the lack of Double Fairlies... until I discovered exactly those being manufactured. Of course freelancing has had a huge affect on our hobby. For example the Railway Series and the Thomas and Friends TV series both have their roots in what is essential Rev. Awdry's freelanced "North Western Railway." That is millions of dollars of merchandise generated from what is obstensibly at its core a freelanced railroad. But I guess in my case... I just feel like I have half a dozen real prototype railroads and locations bouncing in my head as potential "must do someday" projects to really do freelancing. I am sure Freelancing is more rewarding for the creative modeler or those who want to make a "what if?" scenario... but I just have to many prototypes on my list for now. I guess if I ever Freelanced... it would be a pure fiction scenario. I.E. a sci-fi experiment to see if I could model a futuristic looking train or something like that.
I did the one-letter-at-a-time for all 93 of my home-road passenger and head-end cars, mostly using dry transfers...
...and likewise, using either decals or dry transfers for most of my 78 locomotives, both diesels and steam...
...a few, however, got more simplified versions...
Wayne
So, regarding Kevin's opening post, freelancing did seem more popular years ago. But I think the reasons varied as much as the individuals.
For some it was likely a way to overcome the lack specific models, but for others I think it was just like today, a creative outlet rather than being completely restricted by history.
Personally, I am a protolance guy. I want very much for you to believe the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, and its connections to the B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
But I fully appreciate what Kevin does as well. In fact I am very proud to have some STRATON AND GILLETTE equipment on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL as well as equipment from a number of other well known freelanced layouts past and present.
I've been at this hobby since 1968, several times I considered a prototype only approach, and I have to say, the closest I could ever get was freelanced locations with trains that said B&O.
I think more people go the prototype route today because they can. The wider selection of reasonably accurate well detailed RTR models makes that more possible.
But I model the WESTERN MARYLAND, I still don't see any WESTERN MARYLAND passenger cars on the RTR market, or a reasonably correct Pacific to pull them from a non brass manufacturer.
I guess you still have to be a paint and lettering modeler to model the WM. About the same as being a freelancer....
Would I do it all over? Based on product availability concerns, I'm not sure I would even get into this hobby if I had to start over, let alone freelance.
But I already have a lifetime supply of stuff to build, stuff already built, etc.
Sure, I will buy more as my new layout gets underway, but unlike some, I have no interest in "upgrading" 50 years worth of collecting and building with new expensive models built by someone else.
To be clear, I do buy my share of RTR, but I also still build and run kits that are as old as I am, or older.
Happily stuck in a fantasy version of the Mid Atlantic in September 1954.
SeeYou190I use one letter at a time on most of my outside braced equipment.
Yea, anything with outside braceing, or rib's ( like gondola's ) you kinda have to go one or two letter's at a time.
SeeYou190 I love the style of your modeling, your work is loaded with character and personality.
Ah , .... you mean "weathered" and " abused". LOL
Believe it or not, I can build a "shiny" new car/locomotive..... from time to time ...
But Rusty/Crusty is just waaaayyyyy more fun.
You should PM me and see about arranging a "hostage" swap.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
sandjam Freelance has always been “a mere fraction of the hobby”. My question stands, how are you measuring a fraction of a fraction, and seeing that in decline without seeing the hobby as a whole in decline, merely “changing?” Yes, the hobby is changing, mostly because there are less consumer participants, and the manufacturers have found their selective niches to stay profitable to their limited consumers. If in fact, the whole of the hobby is “changing” then wouldn’t that in turn imply that the freelanced portion of the hobby is “changing” as well? Adapting to the availability of decals, kits, paints, etc., is nothing new. It has been that way since the beginning of the hobby, and I would suspect it will remain so. We will carry on. Your reality is your perception. Not all see it your way. That doesn’t make any of us right or wrong, it just makes us different in our views. I don’t perceive an issue, unless you are trying to create one, and still not an issue to us freelancers. We are going to do what we always have. Would I do it again? **** yes. Still unsure of the point of the thread. Seinfeld show?
Please present some factual evidence that there are fewer "consumer participants".
Maybe true as a percentage of the population, but nobody knows for sure.
Nearly the entire model train industry is small privately held companies, production numbers and sales numbers are pretty closely guarded information.
But two things are for sure.
First, with each passing decade there are more prototypes for people to be interested in and for manufacturers to make models of. Even with growth that is proportional to the population, the market for any one model is likely shrinking.
Then factor in the improved quality and selection in the last 20-25 years and the market for each individual item shrinks even more.
Then factor in the RTR vs kit building, quality RTR is a relatively new thing, and has dramatically changed the face of the hobby.
So even if the hobby is growing, the demand for any one specific model is still shrinking.
By the way, I am both a freelance modeler, and prototype modeler, using kits and RTR.
Little TimmyI just do the old "One letter at a time" routine..... yea... it kinda suck's the fun out of it .But I get EXACTLY what I want.
I do the "One Letter At A Time" method to get what I want from time to time. I have always admired your work, I love the style of your modeling, your work is loaded with character and personality.
I use one letter at a time on most of my outside braced equipment.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190You need four things to successfully build a freelance railroad:
SeeYou1901) Custom decals or lettering.
I just do the old "One letter at a time" routine..... yea... it kinda suck's the fun out of it .But I get EXACTLY what I want.
SeeYou1902) Undecorated models.
You can find all kind's of stuff at a swap meet. And, I have been known to just buy a pre-painted kit, and just re-paint it.
SeeYou1903) Appropriate paint.
Now there's a GOOD point ! With the way manufacture's keep "dropping" their product's it's getting harder to get the exact match of paint. ( I got use to Floquill Tuscon Red, now it's hard to get anything just like it without mixing paint myself.)
So I settled on Black with Red and White stripes for my Demon's Hollow locomotive's ( easy to reproduce ) and French Blue with Silver stripes for my Wylers Gulch locomotives ( I find I can mix French Blue quite easily.)
SeeYou1904) An open mind towards fantasy.
I got that in Spade's !!!
York1For those of you who created a logo for your railroad's name, did you design it yourself?
I designed the STRATTON AND GILLETTE herald that is my avatar, and used on many of my freight cars.
For the first thirty years of the SGRR existence, there was no herald, just the roadname and the "Fast Freight Service" slogan.
The older forty foot boxcars have a different lettering scheme, and just have "Fast Freight" for a slogan in a larger size.
The "Comet Freight" decals were made about 10 years ago. Ron at Rail Graphics worked from my sketches to create a lettering scheme that was perfect for a 40 foot boxcar.
The herald artwork was designed by me, but the artwork was prepared by Ron at Rail Graphics. The Kadee PS-1 models received the multicolor herald as in my avatar.
Of course, there were a couple Kadee PS-1s that I painted before I had the herald made. These had a big S&G on the left.
Some freight cars, like this automobile boxcar have a modified version of the paint and lettering scheme.
Then there are other variations, like this insulated boxcar with a safety slogan, and a ribald vesion of the herald.
Ron really went all-out with helpful suggestions so that I could have all the variety I needed.
BRAKIEMy Huron River was made with Champ decal's private name decals.
I used Champ's "One Word At A Time" custom roadname decals for a few of my freight cars. I preferred the O scale decals because they were easier to read.
While I have modeled the NYC,PRR and C&O I have far more years freelancing my own railroad(s).
My Slate Creek Rail has nothing more then SCR under the number on the cab. Of course my Summerset Ry SW1500 came lettered for that road. My Huron River was made with Champ decal's private name decals. My Columbus & Hocking Valley features custom made decals.
As a side note my second SSRy SW1500 will be in the new scheme, Black body,yellow frame, yellow safety stripes on the pilots and yellow lettering with SSRy under the number on the cab--- when I get around to painting it..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
sandjamComprehension is a plus, go back and read my reply again.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Have a nice rest of the day.
York1 John
For those of you who created a logo for your railroad's name, did you design it yourself? I see that one decal company will design one for a price. Has anyone tried that?
York1What issue are you trying to create?
Not trying to create anything I am not the OP.
sandjamStill unsure of the point of the thread.
The point of this thread is to talk about freelancing in the model railroad hobby. We enjoy talking about it. That's why we come to this site.
sandjamI don’t perceive an issue, unless you are trying to create one
What issue are you trying to create?
ricktrains4824I proto-freelance, in that I have a fictional route, that interchanges with multiple real lines, with trackage rights for a couple of those lines as well....
My layout is pretty-much the same, with four freelanced railroads, mostly represented only by their locomotives and cabooses, with little rolling stock of their own. Three of the roads are controlled by a fourth, the Elora Gorge & Eastern, my first freelanced road (which is itself, not modelled, although there are a lot of EG&E freight and passenger cars on the layout, along with only a couple of EG&E locomotives).Two of my modelled freelanced roads have their own track, while the third owns one locomotive and one caboose. It was originally intended to be a switching and transfer company, but if I can correct a couple of minor problems (cab and tender interference on curves), I may just get rid of them.
My layout has eight towns, all named for real ones, but none of them as representations of their prototypes, and many industries named for real ones, but likewise pretty-much freelanced. Some are named for friends, too, but totally freelanced (but I hope that they look convincing enough to have been based on real ones).
Both of the modelled railroads interchange with the real railroads which ran in my hometown, and they include the CPR, TH&B, NYC, and CNR. Other than the first one, all are (or will be) represented by locomotives on my layout.As for interchange cars, I have hundreds, very similar to what I saw as a child, growing up in a heavily industrialised city, with cars from literally everywhere in North America.
I'm pretty fussy about a lot of those interchange cars (not all of 'em, though), as I model them after real ones shown in photos, so I have lots of reference books to aid in getting the details right.
I do buy mostly kits (I believe that I have only two or three r-t-r cars on the layout) and mostly letter my own.Most of the locomotives (steam now, but I had dozens of diesels at one time) were both kits and r-t-r, but all were modified in some way, and all custom painted and lettered. I have one on my to-do list that will be pretty-much scratchbuilt, though.
Many of my cars were bought "used", either at train shows or hobbyshops which offered previously-owned stuff, and there's not much that makes it onto the layout without some changes - details, paint, lettering, or modification, both minor and major.
For my freelanced rolling stock, I have specific paint schemes and lettering, and try to make them as believeable-looking as the stuff representing real cars.
SeeYou190For the older freelance modelers like me... would you do it today of you had to start over... I would not.
Definitely! I like the idea of replicating, to some degree, the prototype, but also enjoy the ability to use my imagination.
Hello All,
I freelance.
This was the plan from the start.
My pike is a fictional branch to a coal mine set in the coal fields of the Western Slope of Colorado during the 1970s to 1980s.
This railroad is owned by the parent company, Consolidated Materials Group.
The Nation Model Railroad Association (NMRA) registered name is:
"BS&P (Buckskin & Platte Rail Road) Coal Brick Loop - C.M.G.; Reporting Marks: BS&P R.R."
The coal drags from the mainline and materials trains are Santa Fe.
Mine trains are leased from D&RGW.
All the motive power owned by the BS&P is repatched. The livery colors are black with safety orange stripes.
This makes changing paint schemes easy.
Even if I can't completely strip the original paint, the black rattle-can paint pretty much masks a lot.
I have not yet printed the decals for the herald (my avatar).
The next step will be to print out and apply the decals.
For me, part of the draw of modeling is the ability "what if" in any way you wish.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
sandjamWhat is your source for “freelance is unpopular”?
Reality is my source.
I am comparing this to the hey-day of private roadnames in the 60s through the 80s. Then the shift was made to prototype railroad modelling as more detailed road-specific models became available.
This does not need to be debated, freelance modeling is a mere fraction.
By the way, the hobby as whole is not dying, it is just changing.
SeeYou190Now that freelancing is unpopular, there is little chance that it will be able to come back. Why would someone start making decals if modelers cannot get a good supply of undecorated kits? Why make undecorated kits if no one is going to decorate them?
wjstixI agree about decals. I still have a fair number of Don Manlick decals, but haven't found anyone to make new ones. I gave some DM decals to the folks at San Juan Model Co. at the Nat'l Narrow Gauge convention in 2018 to see if they could do the custom decals for me, still waiting to hear back from them!
I've had three 50 sheet custom dry transfer sets from C-D-S, and two custom decal sets, 25 sheets each, from Rail Graphics. One of the latter was a tribute to a fellow model railroader and friend who had passed away, and I sold most of those sets (at cost) to other modellers wanting to honour him. However, I friend sent me several decal sheets of lettering for a shortline railroad, of which he had been Manager before his retirement. Here's a car, not yet weathered, lettered with those decals...
I thought the yellow lettering to be very vibrant (many yellow decals can be rather washed-out-looking), but when I looked at the lettering under magnification, using a jewller's loupe, there appeared to be very small dots of red in it. I contacted the maker, Circus City Decals, asking them about the red dots, and in particular, asking if they contribute to the vibrancy.I was surprised by a very prompt reply, apologising for the dots, and adding that they were not supposed to be there....the dots were actually magenta, and otherwise unnoticeable. I was offered replacement sets, at no cost, but quickly responded, letting them know that a friend had ordered the decals, and merely gave me a couple of sets, so any replacements should go to him.
I am sharing this information, mainly to emphasise that not only are the decals very well-done, but that Circus City definitely stands behind their products.
Here's a LINK to their website.
When I need more custom decals, I'll definitely order them from Circus City - if you're capable, provide your own artwork, otherwise they'll do it for you, for a price, of course.All of my custom decals were designed by me, but my brother, who has the proper computer programmes, did all of the art work.
I have some freelance companies on my railroad, complete with rolling stock and sometimes even vehicles. I named the small railroad that services the carfloat area the Westport Terminal Railroad, after the layout of one of our late forum members, Wolfgang Dudler.
My layout mostly runs Milwaukee equipment, but I do like a few fantasy items to tie the structures to the trains a bit better. For these, I use either undecorated cars or rattle can spray over something cheap like an Athearn BB ice bunker reefer. I print my own decals on my computer.
My trolley and buses are decorated for my Moose Bay Transit Authority, again, starting with an undecorated kit, painting with rattle can paint and decaling done on my computer.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I proto-freelance, in that I have a fictional route, that interchanges with multiple real lines, with trackage rights for a couple of those lines as well.
My route has very little of their own equipment, just a couple of locomotives, and a handful of used MOW cars and equipment. Locomotives will be a single color paint with decal striping and block lettering. (Microscale makes these, as do others.) MOW will just be patch job ballast hoppers, and a patched caboose as a shoving platform. (And the CMX and centerline track cleaners.)
Everything else is real lines equipment.
So, it's easy to proto-freelance a line, even with the modern selection.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
SeeYou190 Why would someone start making decals if modelers cannot get a good supply of undecorated kits? Why make undecorated kits if no one is going to decorate them? -Kevin
Why would someone start making decals if modelers cannot get a good supply of undecorated kits? Why make undecorated kits if no one is going to decorate them?
I don't think that would necessarily be a deterrent to someone who really wants to model a given locomotive or car. I've been trying to cobble together a small fleet of Colorado Midland Railway locos, and when I find suitable candidate loco it doesn't really matter to me if it's undecorated or not. I just paint it and make my own decals. I'd say it just depends on one's modeling skills and how much effort they wnat to put into it.
LazersEric Brooman constanly updates his Loco & Stock portfolio and along with the inspiring 'Utah Belt', he just gets on with it and does it. Trees that have died, new that have grown - and all in between. Regards, Paul
Eric Boorman's layout is a work of art. I used to think the scenery was fanciful, but when I drove through Utah last year I found out it is completely realistic.
I have the 1954 UTAH BELT represented in my fleet of freight cars.
Hi Kevin, Interesting Topic. Possibly a good, inspiring example of a Free-lance Model RR would be Eric Brooman's 'Utah Belt' HO scale model? There are instances (on another Forum) where subscribers have asked, "where is the prototype UB R/R", because they can't find it on Google. Proving it aint what you do, its the way that.... but also proof that Freelance MRRs are not to be relegated.
I did consider free-lancing, but the CSS&SB Freight is my first USA MRR and I don't know enough about the Country let alone its Railroads and how they operate and so chose a prototype.
But had I wanted to freelance, I would have done it. Nothing or nobody would have stopped me. Certainly not Paints or Decals. You get a lot more Modeller's Licence, for one thing. It might be easier modelling a Free-lance? Hence;
Luckily, I found "Switchline Decals" (online) who produced and mailed to me, the full range of CSS&SB GP38's. I will use whatever Tamiya 'near enough' Orange, that I can get my hands on, here in the UK. That's after I have stripped the Yellow & Blue Livery from my Santa-Fe GP38's. Seems a bit like the Free-lancing Obstacle-course of today - I can't compare with the past?
Of course, I could buy some of Atlas's recent CSS&SB GP38's, but I would have to import them, at great expense.
Freight & Passenger Cars, I modify, detail & repaint mostly old (cheap) models/kits from ebay-uk or Model Railway Exhibitions. Again, anything I can get my hands on, that is applicable and/or offers potential.
The standard of modelling in the photos you submit to the community shows me that you have no problem with acheiving good results. It's not all or just - down to the quality of the Paints & Decals you are using-up, from your old supplies.
Eric Brooman constanly updates his Loco & Stock portfolio and along with the inspiring 'Utah Belt', he just gets on with it and does it. Trees that have died, new that have grown - and all in between. Regards, Paul
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
I think it is amazing that the decals, paint, and undecorated car kits all had to come from different sources. These companies all had an interconnected existence.
Now that freelancing is unpopular, there is little chance that it will be able to come back. Why would someone start making decals if modelers cannot get a good supply of undecorated kits? Why make undecorated kits if no one is going to decorate them?
I am most definitely a freelancer. As I have locomotives and rollingstock from multiple eras and road names, (and would not give any of them up for the world), the idea behind both my temporary dining room table layout and future layout plans is something along the lines of the ultimate railroad museum. I like watching trains run, and I like the wide variety of locomotives and equipment out there. I even have some British equipment. (Hogwarts Express) If I had to start over, I wouldn't change a thing except for doing a few things better with skills I learned later on. As for the supplies I need/use, it's anything and everything that is suitable, and usually obtained locally. Also, just for the record, I'm a younger modeler at the age of 29.
dstarrAnd some good names for cities and towns
I have posted the story of where the names "Stratton" and "Gillette"came from before.
On the layout, six cities are represented, only two are actually on the layout.
Centerville: Biggest city on the layout, from an epsiode of the Twilight Zone.
Port Annabel: Name inspired by John Allen.
East staging goes to Great Divide, also inspired by John Allen.
West staging goes to Manchester, inspred by George Sellios.
I have not settled on names for the cities for staging to the North and South yet. I might not. Since these are double tracked mainlines, it can be assumed that several cities are along that route.
BigDaddyThe detail in modern loco is enormous, windshield wipers, window trim. I do not have the skills to do the extremely detailed painting or removing and painting tiny details.
This is the crux of it. Are you willing to accept what you yourself can do even when it's not as good as RTR. Granted over time your skills may improve, but are you willling to put in the time? In the meantime will you be happy with what you can do?
And if you are building a layout larger than say 10x10, do you have the time? My current under construction layout is 13x36, I use as much RTR as is available. Loosely following the Ma&Pa RR is faster than modeling a free lance railroad.
Paul