As a young boy, I loved model railroading. But school, family, career etc. got in the way and now, as an adult, I finally have the time to come back and again pursue...My knowledge of the hobby has slipped with time and as I get ready to make my first purchases, I could use your advice and counsel primarily in the choice of brands and manufacturers as I start my first purchases...Any of your ideas, recommendations would also be very helpful....I'm starting from "Zero" as I buy my first sheet of 4X8 ply....Your advise on brands, starter sets Vs. non, layout, gauges etc will be appreciated,,,I'm tending toward HO gauge. I have seen some interesting offerings on C List as well the auction site and brand knowledge would be most helpful there....Thanks..Your advice will help me to the right paths.
to the forum, your posts are delayed while you are moderation. Keeps the spam totatlly out of the forum.
That's a lot to pack into just one thread. In the 50's I had an American Flyer, traded that for HO, which was a good trade, in terms of use of space. The same gain can be made in N-scale and you can run much longer trains in a given space. Visually I can't make to jump to N, it just looks too small. However it is a popular scale.
Next you need an era and a location. That's up to you, I model Appalachian transition steam to diesel era. I only remember one steam train as a child, but who doesn't like steam engines? Avoid the temptation to buy a good looking locomotive that doesn't fit your locale. If you model modern California UP, you don't need a Reading camelback.
Stay away from starter sets, unless this is going to be a train around the Christmas tree.
Brands depend on your era. There are some bargain diesels that were produced in the 80's by companies that no longer exist. Athearn blue box freight cars, outfitted with Kadee couplers can be found at train shows for $8-10 are the best deal around. If you want modern cars with all the possible detail you will be looking at north of $40
4x8 is popular, because that is the size of a sheet of plywood. It's a big compromise in design though.
I'd get a starter book on DCC from Kalmbach and John Armstrongs' Track Planning for Realistic Operation. There are still plenty of DC fans, but DCC has advantages if you are into sound. It is not an intuitive technology.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyKeeps the spam totatlly out of the forum.
Wish that were true...but it's not. Seems there's always a new "member" popping up in the Users Online area; usually with a cute women for an avatar. If you click the avatar it's someone promoting their b&m business or website with "0" posts. Those mostly show up in the later hours.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
jjo brands,
Russell
Well before you jump into buying locos, I'd suggest reading. A lof of it! Starting a library about different MR books is wise. After doing that, you can develop a list of more targeted questions for asking here.
Some questions worth considering that can driver what loco builders are sutiable are the following:
1. What era you looking at? Location?
2. What you hoping on replicating? A specific structure, region, industry, etc.
3. You looking at DCC or DC?
4. How you planning on operating the locos?
etc.
I defer to my more kowledgeable friends for developing other questions.
Tom do you tell your wife that it's your job to click on the photos of hot chicks?
Henry,
From the avatar it's usually not too difficult to determine who is using Kalmbach's platform for advertising on the forum and who is not. Usually the user name gives it away.
Tom
BigDaddy Tom do you tell your wife that it's your job to click on the photos of hot chicks?
Mike
jjo I could use your advice and counsel primarily in the choice of brands and manufacturers as I start my first purchases...Any of your ideas, recommendations would also be very helpful....I'm starting from "Zero" as I buy my first sheet of 4X8 ply....Your advise on brands, starter sets Vs. non, layout, gauges etc will be appreciated,,,I'm tending toward HO gauge. I have seen some interesting offerings on C List as well the auction site and brand knowledge would be most helpful there....
I could use your advice and counsel primarily in the choice of brands and manufacturers as I start my first purchases...Any of your ideas, recommendations would also be very helpful....I'm starting from "Zero" as I buy my first sheet of 4X8 ply....Your advise on brands, starter sets Vs. non, layout, gauges etc will be appreciated,,,I'm tending toward HO gauge. I have seen some interesting offerings on C List as well the auction site and brand knowledge would be most helpful there....
What is C list?
Anyway, brands can be limited by what kind of trains you want. Of course not all brands make all trains so depending on what you want, you may only be able to get it from one or two of the brands. And it also depends on how much money you want to spend.
HO Freight cars - price guestimates for new - street prices can be lower:
- Moloco: very accurate gorgeous scale box cars - $56 ea
- Tangent: very accurate gorgeous variety of freight cars, top shelf - around $35 - $48 ea
- ScaleTrains - mostly well detailed accurate freight cars - $26-42 (lower prices are their "Operator" series with few detail parts, "Rivet Counter" or in the $40-45 range and many separately applied details.
- ExactRail: well detailed freight car, some accurate, a few not - most $45 ea
- Intermountain: mostly well detailed, some accurate, some not - $30 - $40 range
- Athearn Genesis: well detailed and accurate $35-$40 range
- Atlas: well made, fairly well detailed freight cars in the $30-$40 range
- Accurail: kit freight cars, many/most may not match a real freight car but ecomical and assemble well, most around $15 or so.
Engines (prices all over the map - too many to list):
- Athearn/Athearn Genesis
- ScaleTrains
- Intermountain
- KATO (selection in HO is fairly small)
- Broadway (steam and diesel)
- Atlas
- Walthers/Proto2000
- Lifelike Proto 2000 (no longer in production but many on secondary market - 4 axle engines often need cracked gears replaced but not difficult to do)
- Athearn blue box kits (no longer being made but can find on secondary market)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
csxns jjo brands, Check out Scale Trains,Athearn Genesis,Atlas for Locomotives.
Check out Scale Trains,Athearn Genesis,Atlas for Locomotives.
That assumes those companies make locomotives you are interested in owning.......
Those are great brands, but of the three only Athearn Genesis is represented in my 140 loco fleet, and then only with EMD F units, and few other non Genesis items.
I will not be the only person to say this, but it first depends on what, and when, you want to model.
Those three brands only represent about 4 steam locos, and maybe a dozen early diesels.....
I have a lot of Bachmann steam, and the nay sayers can laugh all they want, they all run good and look good.
Most of my diesels are pre Walthers Proto2000 except for Genesis and Intermountain EMD F units............
On average, I have only spent $100 per loco..........
Sheldon
C List must mean Craigslist.
There is no HO or N scale on my local C list and the times I looked, I was not impressed at what was for sale nor by the prices.
JJO if you are not into engine repair, don't buy anything used that does not say tested.
I would recommend the new person try the following, mostly for drive mechanism durability, and because they can be handled and hold up well with handling:
(This is specifically because the ScaleTrains, Genesis, and other high end models are both expensive and very delicate. I wouldn't spend my money there until I was very comfortable with unpacking and handling HO models, and had a better idea of what I wanted.)
Specifically I would recommend anything made by Kato, in Japan, because although some are rather highly detailed, they are designed and made to be handled and their mechanisms are generally outstanding, more durable than others. Because their models are considered by purists to be "older technology" now, they often are not quite as expensive--but everybody else has copied Kato's mechanisms--and the copies are not generally as good. Kato is still producing brand new engines, but there are somewhat limited models and roadnames available, with a ton of older models on Ebay that generally are awesome.
Likewise, I'll recommend the Atlas Trainman series engines. They offer some lesser details, to keep the price down (if somebody wants to, they can add more details like the wire grab irons at a later date), and they also generally have a great mechanism in them, that will run and last, very similar to Kato, with very minimal, or even practically no, maintenance.
The other less expensive loco series out there, excepting Bachmann steam engines, I personally cannot recommend, for a variety of reasons...The Bachmann steam engines do offer very good value for the money.
John
For freight cars, Kadee, manufactured 100% in the USA, though only limited models are available, they are the best. They can be handled, and because they are extremely well engineered with extensive use of delrin plastic, they are difficult to damage. Nothing else is 100% made in USA, and nothing else in my opinion, matches the quality of Kadee. Excepting the Christmas series cars, as a bonus, they are all accurate, photo documented correct models, of real freight cars, down to having accurate lettering for the individual cars modeled. Sure, if I have a really bad wreck, I can damage a Kadee car, but in the last 30 years, that has been only one or two cars the entire time. You almost have to try to damage them. As I am once again backdating to steam era, I am replacing the more expensive modern era freight cars with Kadee on my own layout.
I also like the Broadway Limited Imports freight cars. The N&W hoppers are among my favorites, and I'm buying them when I find them.
Hi there and welcome back to Model Railroading! For general reading about scales and the latests changes in the hobby, I recommend the NMRA site. There are great articles in there.
Simon
When all these lockdowns are gone, find a local train show and go. It will give you ideas. I wouldn't buy anything right away.
The suggestions to choose an era, a location and a railroad are good ones, but do some research even before doing that.
Consider your available space. Tight curves can be a problem with old steam engines and passenger cars, or with modern diesels and freight cars. Many of us like the Transition era when steam gave way to diesel power because the diesel engines and freight cars were shorter and can mostly handle tighter curves.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hello All,
!!!
If you can increase your layout size to 5'x9' or 5'x10' it will allow you to have larger curves which will allow you to run "larger" locomotives and longer cars.
Sheets of this size plywood are available from specialty suppliers.
Locomotives are generally classified by the number of wheels or axles.
In the steam realm there are typically three numbers used; 0-0-0 to classify their sizes.
The first number referrers to the front or pilot wheels. The second number refers to the drive wheels and the last number refers to the trailing wheels of the locomotive.
A 0-4-0 will have no pilot and trailing wheels and have 4 driving wheels; 2 on each side.
A 4-10-4 will have two sets of pilot wheels, 5 sets of driving wheels and 2 sets of trailing wheels. This loco will be much longer "larger" than a 0-4-0- -perhaps twice as long.
This wheel classification does not inclued the "size" or length of the tender. Generally speaking the larger the loco the larger the tender. Some of the largest steamers also had auxiliary tenders that carried extra coal or fuel oil and water.
Some of the smallest steamers; 0-4-0s & 0-6-0s; used for switching duties in yards, had no tenders but had ingenious ways of storing limited quantities of fuel and water on board.
These were re-fuled in the yards they worked and not on the mainlines.
In the diesel realm locos are classified by the number of axles. A 2-axle loco will have 4 wheels- -two per axle. These are typically found on switchers or "smaller" locos (AKA "Critters").
Four-axle diesels will have 8 wheels arranged on 2 trucks- -2 axles with 4 wheels per truck.
A 6 axle will have 12 wheels arranged on 2 trucks. Each truck will have 3 axles and 6 wheels. These are considered "larger" locos.
To these guidelines there will be exceptions but for general classification this is enough to get you going.
Smaller layouts (pikes) necessitate smaller radii- -sharper curves. In HO that would be 15- and 18-inch sectional track (track sold in 9-inch "sections" and pre-curved).
Larger layouts benefit from the ability to have larger radius curves; 22-, 36-inch and larger by using flex track.
Flex track comes in 36-inch long straight sections.
The difference between sectional and flex track is that flex track only has one side of the ties attached to the rail. The other rail is held to the ties by plastic tabs. This allows the track to be shaped to fit any curve as one rail will slide between these tabs to create curves and is not preset like sectional track.
Turnouts (switches) are classified by a number: #2, #4, #5, #6, #8 & #10. This number has caused some confusion. The number refers to a ratio between the angle of the straight track and the diverging track. The smaller the number the sharper the diverging angle, the larger the number the shallower the diverging angle.
Curved turnouts can be classified by the radii of the main curve and the diverging curve; 36"/22".
Locomotives, whether steam or diesel, will have a "recommended minimum radius". This referrers to the smallest radii that the loco will be able to negotiate reliably.
This holds true for rolling stock (cars) too. A 40-foot car will negotiate 15-inch curves and #2 turnouts while an 89-foot car would probably not be able to successfully negotiate the same track arrangement.
Another thing to consider is what control (propulsion) system are you planning on using?
The two main systems in the U.S. are DC and DCC. DC might seem like the more inexpensive at first blush but in the long run, in my opinion, DCC is the way to go. The pros and cons of each can be researched and has been the topic of hundreds of threads.
As far as manufacturers- -what's your budget?
Bachmann is a reliable, inexpensive, brand. Scale Trains would be considered a more high-end brand. Atlas, I would say is somewhere in between- -depending on the "level".
Other manufacturers specialize in steam, passenger, era-specific and specialty motive power (locomotives).
As others have suggested doing research, buying used and focusing on a specific era and or region will help you build the pike you will be proud of.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
to the Model Railroader forums.
We get "new guys needing advice" threads a few times a year, and it always gets very confusing. I hope we do not scare new people away with all our favorites and crazy specific advice.
Anyway... here I go...
I always suggest to new people to JUST BUILD SOMETHING! Accept that your first layout is best used as a learning experience, build it and see what you do and do not like. Find out what you enjoy and what you find tedious.
There are some acceptable-good track plans for a 4 by 8 using off-the-shelf track components. Read a book like the old HO Scale Primer from Kalmbach. Read Track Planning For Realistic Operation, also from Kalmbach, before you build your SECOND layout.
Make a mess, make mistakes, ruin some trackage, replace the trackage, troubleshoot a wiring mistake, flop down some scenery, and have fun!
This is a fun hobby, but you need to figure out what parts of it you enjoy. You will have a better idea after you build your first layout.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
C List must mean Craigslist
Could be. Honestly I never use Craigslist or Amazon for trains. Amazon has some but the prices (higher) and selection (low) caused me to give up.
jjdamnitIf you can increase your layout size to 5'x9' or 5'x10' it will allow you to have larger curves which will allow you to run "larger" locomotives and longer cars.
I also encourage any new folks to avoid the straight jacket of the 4x8 plywood which limits you to sharp curves that many longer HO trains don't like much.
But it is a good idea to start by building a smaller layout for the experience and practice of laying track, and other skills. Then if you decide to "level up" and go with a bigger layout, you wil benefit from the experience of the smaller one.
For buying new, any of the makers who advertise in MR or RMC have fine rolling stock. For buying used, attend a train show or two. Plenty of decent rolling stock for very reasonable prices. There is little that can go wrong with rolling stock that cannot be fixed. Since you are thinking about a 4 by 8, you will be building 18 inch curves, for which 40 and 50 foot freight cars, 4 axle diesels and smaller steam engines (4-6-2 Pacifics and 2-8-2 Mikados and smaller) will work. Athearn shorty passenger cars work. 80 foot passenger cars, articulated steamers, and the bigger longer diesels will derail on the curves. Plan your rolling stock fleet accordingly.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Lots of great information in this thread, great job guys!
This hobby can be daunting with all the possible choices out and some gotchas that occur. How do you want to control your trains, DC or DCC? If DCC, do you want sound? An important decision.
If I was starting out today and wanted a diesel locomotive, I would purchase an Atlas Trainman GP38-2. The GP38-2 came out in mid-seventies and you can still see them working the rails today. The trainman series is a budget level model but look very nice and don't require VERY careful handling like the more expensive detailed models. Purr like a kitten with very smooth operation. It is a two-minute job to drop in a decoder for non-sound dcc operation. Atlas Trainman locos can be also be purchased with sound decoders. A solid purchase for a first loco.
Good luck!
WOW!!!! Much good info here...I really liked your specific recos on brands of cars and locomotives (Looks like KATO, Atlas and Bachman rank high).. Looks also like I've got much to research/learn before I dive in.. Had planned to visit a few local model RR shops now but the virus is making that difficult...I like this forum already...You guys know your hobby...Thank you for getting me started. Be patient with me. I'm a true beginner...Appreciate your help.
Just getting familiar w this forum but I'll try to comment on some of the posts above individually.....again, thanks.
Forgot to ask: what are your general recos on purchasing HO track? I know there are several types (the connectors etc) as a couple of the "used" packages I'm being offered include the track...Thanks in advance...
IDRick How do you want to control your trains, DC or DCC?
I run good old DC for my own set of reasons.
However... If I were starting over, and for anyone entering new to the hobby, it should be DCC without question.
How do you want to control your trains, DC or DCC?
DCC's great strength is that it allows multiple trains to operate under independent control on the same piece of track. You can have an operation session with lots of engineers runnings lots trains all running at once. For a big club layout this is fantastic. For a 4 by 8 home layout that you operate by yourself, DCC is less advantageous, and more expensive.
DCC requires a decoder ($30) installed inside each locomotive. Each decoder must be programmed with the locomotive's number. And you need a DCC "power pack" (generates the DCC signal that is applied to the track), one or more DCC throttles (provides buttons and knobs that allow you to control your train) and for heavy power draw, a "booster" to jack up the track signal to several amperes. If a DCC train fails to move when it should, troubleshooting is obscure. I might need an oscilloscope to figure out what is wrong. You can troubleshoot a straight DC layout with just a 12v light bulb as a test lamp.
My home layout is small and I am the single operator. I run straight DC. I have toggle switches to turn off the juice on each siding so I can park locomotives (and entire trains) on a siding and run another train on the main line or on other sidings.
Do yourself a favor and take a look at some Bachmann ho trains. They have upgraded their manufacturing on their better locomotives like the sd70's, ES44ac's and the steam engines with dcc and sound. They look and run great. I have bought Athearn, MTH and Bachmann.
Bachmann may not be as detailed as some others but they run and sound great and price wise they can't be beat.
Btw, I have nothing to do with Bachmann
David