SeeYou190 My knowledge of eBay auctions with Florida sellers and Florida buyers is strictly "what I have heard", and should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
My knowledge of eBay auctions with Florida sellers and Florida buyers is strictly "what I have heard", and should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I am questioning your comments about the winning bidder loading the item in his car and driving off without paying.
The way auctioneers have explained this is yes, you are within your rights as a buyer to load it into your car, and they cannot stop you from driving off.
Then... they start legal procedings to get payment. You cannot be arrested for it, because it is not theft, so not criminal, but a civil matter.
The auctioneers make it very clear that they will get their money, you will pay legal fees associated, and it is a dumb thing to even consider doing.
I have never been to a live auction in Florida that did not require you to present picture ID and sign a long legal form before you were allowed to bid. At most auctions they also get a picture of your vehicle and license plate number. There is nothing informal or casual about these auctions.
My knowledge of eBay auctions with Florida sellers and Florida buyers is strictly "what I have heard", and should probably be taken with a grain of salt. It is something I would NEVER even consider doing... ever. It sounds like a good way to get in lot of trouble very quickly.
However, knowing there are jerks in the world, I am sure there are some idiots that have tried it.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Kevin, re-read my initial question. I am not questioning the timing of the passage of title at an auction. Florida is not unique in this regard. I am questioning your comments about the winning bidder loading the item in his car and driving off without paying.
richhotrainKevin, how sure are you about this? I am talking about the ability to load an item in your car without paying, not the timing of the ownership transfer.
I am 99% sure. At about half of the auctions I attend the auctioneer will actually explain this before the auction begins. It is written out on several of the contracts I have signed before auctions.
The speach usually goes like this:
As soon as I say "sold", according to Florida law, you are now the legal owner of this property, not when you complete payment. You are then repsonsible for the property as the new owner. If the item is stolen or lost after I say sold,you still must pay for it. If any damage occurs to the item after I say sold, you still must pay for it. You must secure the item once it is yours.
Of course, they only point out the parts of the law that benefit them when they are making that speach.
I looked for something about it online. I went to my two favorite auction companies, where I know they have these contracts online to print out before the auction, but all their sites are filled with Coronavirus cancellations and notices right now.
I am not a lawyer, but I have been to many many auctions (almost an addiction), so I am pretty sure this is accurate, or all the auction companies are in cahoots together to spread a lie.
wvg_ca i am actually enjoying this ...:) good fun :)
i am actually enjoying this ...:)
good fun :)
I agree. Can't believe it's still around. Fun times had by all!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
SeeYou190 Interesting weird thing about Florida laws: In Florida, when you participate in an auction, the item is yours the moment to auctioneer says SOLD! Ownership transfers at that moment, not when you pay. You can load the item in your car, and the auctioneer cannot stop you.
Interesting weird thing about Florida laws: In Florida, when you participate in an auction, the item is yours the moment to auctioneer says SOLD! Ownership transfers at that moment, not when you pay.
You can load the item in your car, and the auctioneer cannot stop you.
What you are suggesting is a clear violation of the Uniform Commercial Code which is part of Florida law. Can you point to any reference to such activity?
I have had things go wrong on eBay. In the end, if I get my money back, or get the item, all is OK. I would not expect both, but it has happened.
You can load the item in your car, and the auctioneer cannot stop you. Of coarse, all the auction companies know this. That is why you must register before auctions, and most will place a "hold" on your credit card for $2,000.00 before you are allowed to bid. All standard practice.
There have been cases where people in Florida have won items on ebay from sellers in Florida, driven to their location, and demanded the item without payment.
You might get, probably won't, but if you don't pay, they can sue you.
That is why every once in a while on eBay you will see a Florida seller that says in their auctions they will not sell to a buyer in Florida.
I don't know if any other state has auction regulations like this.
rrebell richhotrain Wolf359 I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again. The solution is to just stop replying to replies, and the thread will die a natural death. Let's face it.You are not going to get the locomotive that you won the bidding on. A while back, I suggested that you post a link to the original listing so that we could evaluate it. Stuff like the seller's feedback, the number of bids, the description of the item, etc. Why not do that? Rich You got something better to do, I am bored to death here and yes I am working on my railroad but things I am doing have dry times.
richhotrain Wolf359 I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again. The solution is to just stop replying to replies, and the thread will die a natural death. Let's face it.You are not going to get the locomotive that you won the bidding on. A while back, I suggested that you post a link to the original listing so that we could evaluate it. Stuff like the seller's feedback, the number of bids, the description of the item, etc. Why not do that? Rich
Wolf359 I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again.
I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again.
The solution is to just stop replying to replies, and the thread will die a natural death.
Let's face it.You are not going to get the locomotive that you won the bidding on.
A while back, I suggested that you post a link to the original listing so that we could evaluate it. Stuff like the seller's feedback, the number of bids, the description of the item, etc. Why not do that?
You got something better to do, I am bored to death here and yes I am working on my railroad but things I am doing have dry times.
Wolf359 rrebell If you are going to play on e-bay, read the rules!!!!!!! Seller did everything by the book and went beyond what he had to do by contract. The seller lied to me. He said he'd send me the engine when it came back to him. He never said I had to go through the process again. I didn't want to have to re-hunt down a locomotive that I already won the bid on and run the risk of someone else beating me to it. We already had each other's mailing addresses, we could've bypassed ebay and he could've mailed me my engine, and I could have sent him a money order. But, he wouldn't cooperate and accused me of something I didn't do, I.E., breaking the mistake engine. If an automatic refund is ebay's policy, then they need to change the rules. Not everybody wants a refund. Some, like me, would prefer an echange so I could get the item I won the bid on without having to go through the whole process all over again and risk losing it to someone else. I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again. As it's all been explained repeatedly in my other posts. I'm not the villain here, I'm the victim.
rrebell If you are going to play on e-bay, read the rules!!!!!!! Seller did everything by the book and went beyond what he had to do by contract.
If you are going to play on e-bay, read the rules!!!!!!! Seller did everything by the book and went beyond what he had to do by contract.
The seller lied to me. He said he'd send me the engine when it came back to him. He never said I had to go through the process again. I didn't want to have to re-hunt down a locomotive that I already won the bid on and run the risk of someone else beating me to it. We already had each other's mailing addresses, we could've bypassed ebay and he could've mailed me my engine, and I could have sent him a money order. But, he wouldn't cooperate and accused me of something I didn't do, I.E., breaking the mistake engine. If an automatic refund is ebay's policy, then they need to change the rules. Not everybody wants a refund. Some, like me, would prefer an echange so I could get the item I won the bid on without having to go through the whole process all over again and risk losing it to someone else. I apologize if I've inadvertently gotton rude with you or anyone else on this thread, but I'm tiring of having to re-explain this situation again and again. As it's all been explained repeatedly in my other posts. I'm not the villain here, I'm the victim.
Thank you for the advice. However, I had already given up on it as I feel the seller is not worth dealing with anymore, so I'm looking for another loco.
If it were me (and it has been in the past), and I got refunded because something went south, I'd count my blessings and move on. I take it as a "sign" that this will end up being a PITA right to the bitter end. Take the money and run.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Oh, ok. It is what it is...
trwroute Even in your response you said that if he has to eat the money...and you did say that you are entitled to it no matter what. It sounds to me that you might have worn the seller out with your demands. This may be his way of saying that he doesn't want to deal with you. This ain't rocket science. There are other sellers and surely this wasn't a one of a kind loco. Spend your money, that you received as a refund, elsewhere.
Even in your response you said that if he has to eat the money...and you did say that you are entitled to it no matter what.
It sounds to me that you might have worn the seller out with your demands. This may be his way of saying that he doesn't want to deal with you.
This ain't rocket science. There are other sellers and surely this wasn't a one of a kind loco. Spend your money, that you received as a refund, elsewhere.
Please re-read my posts. "It ain't rocket science". I gave him options to make it right, he wouldn't cooperate. My point is, I won the bid fair and square. Ergo, MY locomotive. (This would be no different than if I ordered an F-150 direct from Ford and they sent me a Ranger, I returned it and asked that they send me my F-150, but instead they refund my money against my wishes and accuse me of denting the returned Ranger. Do you see my point now?) But, since he chose not to cooperate with me and accused me of breaking something I didn't touch, I pretty much told him what he could do with it. Also, it wasn't an entirely unique engine, but it's one that's kind of hard to find here locally. Especially now with everything shut down, and I wanted it for a specific project.
trwroute Why should the seller send you a free loco when you already got a refund? Why do you keep calling it "your" loco when, again, you got a refund? If I was the seller, I would put you on my banned bidder list.
Why should the seller send you a free loco when you already got a refund? Why do you keep calling it "your" loco when, again, you got a refund?
If I was the seller, I would put you on my banned bidder list.
Because I didn't ask for a refund! And now he's accusing me of breaking something I didn't touch! I also asked him if there was some way we could work something out without having to go through the whole process again and run the risk of losing it to someone else, but he refused to even consider it. We already had each other's mailing addresses due to the return, what harm could it have done? Since ebay automatically refunded my money when that's not what I wanted, that's their and his problem, not mine. As I said, the man said he'd send me the engine as soon as he got it, and then went back on it and said I had to go through the whole process all over again. As I said, "say what you mean and mean what you say". I didn't ask him to give it to me for free, I asked him to honor his original promise to send me the engine that I won and that I'm entitled to. Quite frankly though, you'd think that he'd be willing to work something out and keep his customer happy given the fact that it was his fault and that everyone is totally miserable now thanks to our media induced manufactered crisis. Where did you get the idea that I asked for it for free? What I said was, "If he has to eat it (the money) because of his mistake and/or ebay's policies to make this right and keep a customer happy, then so be it.", I.E. if he chose to send it out for free, that's fine with me. But, I never asked for it for free. Nowhere in my post or my correspondence with this liar did I demand he send it out for free. I'm not the one at fault here, but it's nice to know how understanding you are. Remind me never to buy anything from you.
Post a link to the original auction so that we can help you evaluate it. Even though the auction is over, you can still retrieve the original link.
Update: I'll start out by saying that quite frankly, this guy is a liar. You see, the problem is that after the initial mistake he told me in exact words, "when I get both engines back, I'll send you yours". He never told me I had to do anything else. He never said I'd have to re-buy it and go through the whole thing all over again, hence why I told him that he'd have to make it right. I never asked for a refund, only an exchange. The fact that ebay refunded my money automatically is not my problem. I was always taught to say what you mean and mean what you say. The way I see it, is that he's been on ebay for years and I'm a newbie at it. He should have know better and told how it would work from the beginning. It was only a $30.00 loco. Since he shot his mouth off and said he'd send it to me automatically, I personally think he should honor his words. If he has to eat it (the money) because of his mistake and/or ebay's policies to make this right and keep a customer happy, then so be it. But, it doesn't look like I'm going to be getting this engine now. Now if you want to hear a real kicker, he received back the wrong loco that he sent me on the 16th. He never said anything about any issues with it. Then, yesterday, (the 21st and 5 days after he received it), after I had told him that he had honor his promise to send me MY loco, he comes back and said that because I had opened the box, he couldn't sell the engine I sent back to the guy that was supposed to get it because the cab roof got cracked as a result. I had to open the box to put in a paper that ebay said to put in the box! I never touched the loco, and I sealed the box better than how it came. How was I supposed to get the paper in the box without opening it, have the Starship Enterprise beam it in for me?! If the engine took damage while in transit, that would be the fault of the USPS, not me. I told him this, to which he didn't have an answer. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper and have been left with a bad taste in my mouth over this experience.
Considering what is going on presently, there are much worse things to got upset about.
Anyway, be patient. Usually things get sorted, it just takes some time.
As they said in my wives native country during the war:
Keep Calm and Carry On.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Back in 2008 I won a a series of box cars on the bay while I was on a project out of town that was to be shipped to my PO Box and they necer arrived.
I contacted the seller and he said they were shipped but had no tracking number that worked and my PO said the number was bogus so I contacted the seller again and he sent what was the correct tracking number, it was a tracking number but not for what I won.
My PO tracked it down and through all of this the time frame to do anything about getting my money back passed and I was out the $85.00 and the seller was no longer responding to e-mails and never has had anything on the bay since.
This is the only time in many years of dealing with vendors on e-bay and having an issue.
Ok, a little perspective is in order here:
I've had three or four bad Ebay transactions in about 1000.
The big thing is right now, in 6 or 7 states ALL the train stores, including some well-known internet/mail order train operations, are being forced to close. Now some people are not going to believe this and it is your right to disagree, but those who have already updated their websites are saying orders will be filled and shipped once they are allowed to return to work (who knows how long that will be). One internet dealer even posted that anything ordered prior to 10 am CST this morning would go out today, but that all bets were off after that. The challenge is that some of the shops just do not have a large cash surplus, and depending upon how long they are closed, are still paying expenses maybe even mortgages; they might not get all employees back, etc. Some company owners are of an age when they can choose to just sell out the inventory, retire and walk away. Preliminary economic reports are that sales are off WORSE than after 9/11 occurred. Theire are folks in the model train industry who were forced to give themselves a 50% pay cut after 9/11, and I have heard it has taken all these years since for sales to get almost, but not quite, back to where they were before 9/11 happened.
I don't want to be a fear monger, but the possibility that some operations may not re-open after ... is a legitimate possibility. In this time we should all be thankful for what we have, and (shameless plug since I sell a few items on Ebay) at least we have Ebay to shop on once more places are required to take a business siesta.
Here's hoping all your modeling needs get covered. My prayers are for good health for all of you.
Sincerely--
John
I been buying off e-Bay since 2003 and in 16 years had two oops! The first was the seller said he never got his money..Odd I recieved the cars before he ask when I was going to pay him.. I sent a USPS money order and sent him a copy.. He apologize for the oversight and sent me a car for my troubles. I guess his wife forgot to add it to the account book so he told me. I started using paypal after that.
The second oops! Was when the seller sent the wrong locomotive. I bought a BIN Atlas C&O GP7 and recieved a P2K C&O GP9.. The seller advised me of his mistake and since the engines was the same price I could return the GP9 or keep it.. Instead I asked if the Atlas GP7 was still availabe as a BIN? It was and I bought it.
I put my weekly budget in the red ink that week but,it was two days before payday so,no real harm done.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Out of maybe 1,500 eBay purchases I've had the wrong item arriveonly once.
The seller immediately mailed me a pre-paid label with the correct recipient's address and the other party reciprocated.
After a few days everything was fine. I think Kevin's assessment of the situation is the correct one.
YMMV Cheers, Ed