Hi everyone,
I was a model railroader when I was a kid in the 80s, however, I am coming back to the hobby now that I have kids. We found my old locomotives, rolling stock, track, controller and model buildings from my original layout and now my son and I have taken a keen interest in rejuvenating the older pieces and adding some new ones. We even have my father's Lionel set from when he was a kid post Second World War. We have a 4 x 8 HO layout which we are in the beginning stages of planning.
Some basic information: We have two HO DC locomotives. Power seems to be reaching the locos (the lights run) but they don't move. Having no experience in repairs and with the current state of COVID-19, I'm unlikely to have a professional look at them for a while. We have a local shop nearby that does repairs but are closed during the COVID pandemic. At $65/hour, I'm not sure that resurrecting a Tyco loco from a set from the 80s is going to be worth it. Thoughts or suggestions? If we don't repair them, they could be ornamental and just live in the stock yard.
As well, as we construct our new layout, we would like to be able to retrofit some of my old rolling stock, just out of sentimental value. They have old couplers and trucks (read - cheap toy trucks and couplers). Are they easy to convert, or should we just use them as window-dressing in the stock yard?
Thanks in advance for your help and advice!
After some years of storage many HO locomotives will no longer run. They can be fixed. Take the shell or boiler off exposing the works. Boilers often have a screw securing them down the stack or up thru the cylinder block. Shells usually have tabs with lugs going thru slots in the frame. Do some cleaning and lubrication. Dip a pipe cleaner in GooGone and clean the communtator. Never oil a commutator. Give the motor a single drop of oil one each bearing. Take any gearbox apart and cleam out the old hardened grease with solvent. Wipe each tooth of each gear with a pipecleaner to get any bits of flash that might be lurking. Black flash against a black gear is pretty much invisible but the pipe cleaner will find it. Keep track of what went where and put the locomotive back together in the same order. Don't swap gears from one place to another. Use Googone on a pipecleaner to clean dirt and tarnish off the wheels. Try out the locomotive chassis on your track to see if it runs.
If it is still no move check that power is getting to the motor. Use a 12V bulb as a test lamp. Check for juice right at the motor brushes. Once you have juice the motor ought to turn. If it doesn't, take the motor out and see if it runs by itself. Motors are pretty simple inside, there are few things that will fail. While you have the motor out, the rest of the locomotive chassis ought to roll freely. If it doesn't, something is stuck or bent out of shape or something. What ever it is, fix it.
I would go with Kadee couplers everywhere. I would body mount the couplers on freight cars. Just drill a hole to take a 2-56 machine screw in the bottom of the car and secure the Kadee coupler and coupler box. Use the tap drill, a #50. There is no need to tap the hole, the machine screws can cut their own threads into plastic. I would not glue coupler boxes or their lids in place. Every so often you need to change a coupler, and just backing out a screw beats prying off a glued on lid. Just cut the old truck mounted (talgo) coupler boxes off the trucks (diagonal cutters will do them). Body mount freight cars. Passenger cars are longer and often need talgo couplers to get around corners. I would leave passenger cars the way they came from the factory. Check coupler height, especially after converting couplers or body mounting couplers. You can use the Kadee coupler height gauge or the NMRA gauge.
While you have things apart, a wash in hot water with a bit of Dawn dishwash will brighten things up and get rid of grime. Plastic and metal are fine with water, cardboard is not.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
What Tyco locomotive do you have?
David gives good info on replacing trucks, wheels and couplers. Those cars can be ressurected and made into decent models.
There are a couple of members in here that have made "train set" quality cars into excellent models.
Here's a site where you can get some Tyco information.
Mike.
My You Tube
Robert HamiltonAt $65/hour, I'm not sure that resurrecting a Tyco loco from a set from the 80s is going to be worth it.
No, it wouldn't be worth it. If we're talking about old Tyco diesel engines, you can probably find them in running condition at a railroad flea market (when they start having those again) for like $10-20 each. Then you can just swap bodies with your old engines.
Mantua / Tyco was around for so long that over the years several companies have made motors that will work as replacements. Mantua themselves offered a replacement Mashima can motor kit back in the 1990's that I still see once in a while on Ebay for a decent price.
BTW if the engines have open-frame motors, sometimes just taking the body off and manually spinning the motor with your finger a few times will loosen it up and allow it to run again.
Replace the wheels with all metal machined Intermountain HO wheels. You can buy them by the bag of a hundred. Our club use to. We found them a little heavcier than Kadee wheels. That was our standard.
Kadee has a variety of couplers. Start with the #5. Get the uncoupler track magnents.
Get a Truck Tuner from Micro Mark.
I ran Tyco many yearts ago.
Good luck.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Motor not running but lights working would make me think the motor leads are some how not connected. Likely they are unsoldered somehow. Or there is some junk stuck in the motor keeping it from running.
I had the opposite issue with a loco a bit ago, the light wouldn't work but the motor ran fine. It turns out there was poor electrical conductivity between the lights and the wires running to the lights!
Whatever the issue is, pulling off the shell is the first step towards fixing it!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Hi Robert and son!
Welcome to the forums and back to the hobby!
You don't mention specifically which Tyco models you have, but the first thing to check is how many wheels actually pick up power. If you have brass wheels on one side and plastic wheels on the other side then the locomotive is only picking up power from half the wheels. That makes them unreliable runners. They are not worth salvaging.
If you do want to resurect them, the first thing to do is clean out all the old grease and oil because if it is causing the locomotive to seize up you may damage the motor by trying to apply power. After almost 40 years it will likely be pretty dried out. That involves taking the locomotives apart. If you need instructions on how to do that we can help. Please specify which locomotives you have, or post a couple of pictures.
I would recommend using lubricants designed for the hobby because not all oils and greases are plastic friendly. Labelle makes good products:
https://labelle-lubricants.com/
Walthers carries their products as do most online hobby shops. Don't over lubricate. Excess grease and oil will get all over the place and create a mess.
Once the locomotive is clean, then you can start testing. Others have explained how so I won't repeat what they have said.
As was said, your old cars can be made into quite respectable models. Perhaps doctorwayne will show us some of his amazing work.
Glad to see that your son is interested!!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
If this is a project to be done with the kids, I would get a more reliable loco and put the old ones in a 'to-do' box. For $65 or less, you can get a decent used loco that will be a lot more reliable. Does you hobby shop sell used locos? Since you are using DC, look for a diesel Athearn or Atlas. if your rolling stock has old horn-hook type couplers (google it!), then you can start by buying a loco with that type of coupler and convert later to better couplers. Fiddling around with couplers is not really what I would call a family-friendly activity...
Simon
EDIT: I just saw in your note that your hobby shop is closed... Shopping online also works!
For $65 on that auction site you can get a new in box loco that is light years beyond a Tyco train set loco. Including many that were originally over $100 new.
Given the vintage of these locos - these will have the one piece power truck. Most likely problems would be a wire off, or the lubricant has turned to glue. They are usually easy to get into - the whole power truck drops out, but usually there is a wire going to the light bulb. Access to the armature to try and turn it by hand is difficult with most of these.
I actually have 2 sitting on my desk at work - a coworker gave them to me and the honest truth is they are next to worthless, but the third one is an AHM FM C-Liner which I can perhaps repaint into something useful. Actually one of the other two is a Life Like, the other is Tyco. LL is front wheel drive - there's a self contained power truck in the front. The Tyco is rear wheel drive - the power truck is in the back. No idea if any of them run.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
snjroyIf this is a project to be done with the kids, I would get a more reliable loco and put the old ones in a 'to-do' box.
I agree if the child is younger. They will get bored fast watching dad grease gears. Put the locos aside for when your child is at an age where they can do the rebuilding with you and buy some stuff that runs reliably right from the start. Be wary of the train set quality stuff that rarely runs properly.
Lot's of good suggestions already...
hon30critter...As was said, your old cars can be made into quite respectable models. Perhaps doctorwayne will show us some of his amazing work....
Thanks for your kind words, Dave, but rather than fill up this space with pictures, I'll offer a couple of links, one which deals with a number of HO cars that needed some work, as shown HERE
There's some more HERE and HERE and finally, a litttle more can be seen HERE
Wayne
Intermountain wheelsets easily fit the Tyco truckframes..just cut off the coupler assembly and body mount the couplers.
rrinkerFor $65 on that auction site you can get a new in box loco that is light years beyond a Tyco train set loco. Including many that were originally over $100 new.
I was going to say the same thing. Randy is refering to some of the Life Like (then Walthers) Proto locos. Atlas had Kato Roco motors in the 1980. There was someone selling a load of GP-9's with "Bad Gears" That's a known problem with Proto and an easy fix.
Current production has much more detail, which may prove to be a disadvantage for younger kids. And of course they don't sell for 1980's prices
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
OP wrote: "At $65/hour, I'm not sure that resurrecting a Tyco loco from a set from the 80s is going to be worth it. Thoughts or suggestions? If we don't repair them, they could be ornamental and just live in the stock yard."
My opinion: Probably not worth it unless you can get it running on your own "for cheap". Take the $65 and buy something new or at least "newER".
The old cars can probably be re-fitted with Kadee couplers (Kadee's site has a "conversion page" that tells you what-fits-what).
Not only P2K, P1K, and Atlas locos - there's always good old Athearn Blue Box locos, those are even cheaper. And better than any Tyco made from the early 70's on.
OldEngineman OP wrote: "At $65/hour, I'm not sure that resurrecting a Tyco loco from a set from the 80s is going to be worth it. Thoughts or suggestions? If we don't repair them, they could be ornamental and just live in the stock yard." My opinion: Probably not worth it unless you can get it running on your own "for cheap". Take the $65 and buy something new or at least "newER". The old cars can probably be re-fitted with Kadee couplers (Kadee's site has a "conversion page" that tells you what-fits-what).
Kadee couplers can be fitted to anything. The Kadee "what fits what" list is good, especially for locomotives. Be aware that it will recommend special Kadee couplers to fit talgo trucks (truck mount couplers), should the original have talgo trucks. If you intend to convert to body mount couplers a #5 in a Kadee coupler box will do the job. Kadee sells #5 couplers with coupler boxes in a two pack, and sells #5 couplers in a 20 pack with no coupler boxes.
I was a much younger model railroader in the 50s and 60s. I kept my trains with me and finally set up a new layout in the 90s.
Most of my rolling stock is now up to modern standards, with Kadee couplers, metal Intermountain wheelsets and, where needed, new trucks. It is really a joy to see these "old friends" once again making the rounds of a layout.
I tried with the engines, but I never got any of them to work well, and I discovered that new engines could be found for cheaper than the required parts to restore old ones. I didn't give up on them, though. They were gutted, re-decaled as necessary, and equipped with lights, Kadee couplers and in one case a sound-only decoder. They now run in consists as "honorary" locomotives. They remain too special to me to be called "dummies."
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
mbinsewi What Tyco locomotive do you have?
Thanks for the link to the Tyco catalogues, Mike. What a trip down memory lane those are! Hilarious.
So, after looking through the catalogue, I must have had an F-9 Santa Fe that I got for Christmas as a kid (but has been lost in the sands of time). My two "surviving" locos are an AHM Union Pacific Alco 430 and a Lifelike Canadian National EMD F-9.
Thanks for the recommendations, everyone. I'm in the process of cleaning now. The commutator turns fine on the Alco 430, so I expect there is some buildup in the trucks. The F-9 goes with a bit of a nudge. I'll do some more exploring and report back.
Thanks for all of your help, lads.
- Robert
Thanks so much, David. I'm in the process of cleaning now, so I may check back in if I run into any issues.
The commutator is turning on the Alco 430, and the chassis isn't rolling so I suspect buildup on the gears or breakage in the trucks.
My F9 seems to go with a small nudge. Still have to diagnose what the problem is. Any idea what might be the culprit there?
Thanks for all of your help! It's greatly appreciated.
Amazing work and detail. Clearly I have a lot of work to do even to gain an iota of the expertise and experience you have, doc.
Clearly I've gone down the rabbit hole here......
Thanks!
Perfect. Great idea with just swapping bodies. There seems to be quite a few people trying to off-load the lower end stuff, so there should be a few to choose from for very little. Keep the continental value of the body, but ditch the non-working motor. Thanks for the advice.
Now that I know these locos are good to learn how to repair on (or at least easily replaced at a used market), I'm diving in. Thanks for the advice.
If you want to have fun with the rolling stock, find a nice piece of solid wood about three and a half feet long. Put a section of 36 inch Atlas track on it. Time how long it takes a car to roll the length.
Change the wheels with a Truck Tuner and proper NMRA weights in a couple. Do the roll test again.
Use an angle of 2.5 degrees. Two could be fine.
You could try Kadee wheels and machined all metal wheels if you really want to get technical.
I worked for NASA for fourteen years. I liked experimenting.