Eilif Those of you who might purchase one of these or a similar loco in the $100+ range, please indulge me for a moment. If you bought one, would you weather it? If so, would you weather it yourself or outsource the job? I'm at a place in my hobbying ability where weathering is still something of a risk. Fortunatley if I screw something up, it was likely only an $8 freight car or a $30 caboose. I would be absolutely terrified of screwing up a high-end piece like these cabooses.
Those of you who might purchase one of these or a similar loco in the $100+ range, please indulge me for a moment.
If you bought one, would you weather it? If so, would you weather it yourself or outsource the job?
I'm at a place in my hobbying ability where weathering is still something of a risk. Fortunatley if I screw something up, it was likely only an $8 freight car or a $30 caboose. I would be absolutely terrified of screwing up a high-end piece like these cabooses.
I would weather it, no question.
BUT, I'm not one for heavy, or overly detailed, or "extreme" weathering. A little dust, a little grime, maybe just a little rust, is enough for me.
Disclaimer, I don't ever think of my models in terms of their cost or any future resale value.
Sheldon
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
I tend to play The Ramones sixth album "Pleasent Dreams" so loud, that I could never hear the sound coming from the trains anyway.
.
Its all about having fun!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Enzoamps I am a vertical modeller - my layout is stacked in the closet. No room here at the senior home. My layouts are way behind me. My Lionel was about 1952, my first HO layout about 1957. My career was in pro audio, think live sound and recording. To me the salient issue is WHAT is the prespective the sound represents? Am I to imagine standing trackside? Am I to imagine myself a half mile away? Across the street? I can still hear the train from the next city? Are my caboose sounds really to be more audible than my car garage, parade, and police car sounds? At my rural home, the tractor harvesting the cornfield across the street was every bit as loud as the street sweeper across from my urban shop. The semi truck roaring up my road towards town was just as loud as its counterpart in the city. It shook my home, it shook my business. Personally I would find quiet ambient environmental sounds around the layout more compelling than freight car noises. Just sounds of the city in the background in town, and rural sounds like dogs barking now and then.
I am a vertical modeller - my layout is stacked in the closet. No room here at the senior home. My layouts are way behind me. My Lionel was about 1952, my first HO layout about 1957. My career was in pro audio, think live sound and recording.
To me the salient issue is WHAT is the prespective the sound represents? Am I to imagine standing trackside? Am I to imagine myself a half mile away? Across the street? I can still hear the train from the next city? Are my caboose sounds really to be more audible than my car garage, parade, and police car sounds? At my rural home, the tractor harvesting the cornfield across the street was every bit as loud as the street sweeper across from my urban shop. The semi truck roaring up my road towards town was just as loud as its counterpart in the city. It shook my home, it shook my business.
Personally I would find quiet ambient environmental sounds around the layout more compelling than freight car noises. Just sounds of the city in the background in town, and rural sounds like dogs barking now and then.
On all that we agree. For me, even though I like operation, like you describe, I see sound as a possible extension of the scene, not just an extension of the train.
Today in my travels I was on US40 near Aberdeen, MD. Just 150' to my left, the ex B&O mainline, to my right, the ex PRR mainline. As fate would have it, an intermodal train was headed east on the B&O line. I rolled down the window. I could barely hear the moving train, I could not hear the refrigeration units running on the Tropicana reefers in the stopped west bound train sitting on the siding.....
I was only 150' away, less than 2 actual feet in HO.
As many on here know, I am between layouts, about to begin a new one, much like the old one, only a little bigger.
And I do plan to use my hifi and speaker design knowledge to experiment with layout based ambient sounds.
I'm 62, with any luck I can get the core of this layout built over the next few years and enjoy it until they carry me out of this house.
ATLANTIC CENTRALExceptional model scenery has been around for 50 or 60 years, and be it onboard or layout based, the use of sound with model train displays is highly subjective.
Sheldon, Its hard for the younger modelers to realize we had great looking layouts 60s years ago that would rival many of today's layouts and many of those layouts was built for operation. Many of us used Doug Smith's car card/waybill method as explain in the December 1961 issue of MR. Today I use a modified version of his method.
As far as sound who can forget Bachmann's toy like steam whistle or diesel horn in a oil tank much like the metod Lionel used. Then PFM had a Sound system 60 years ago. Who can forget the CTC 16 system?
We did well back then.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Be your comments in jest, sarcasm or serious, my point was simple.
Exceptional model scenery has been around for 50 or 60 years, and be it onboard or layout based, the use of sound with model train displays is highly subjective. Likely the most subjective topic in this hobby.
My other hobby is hifi.........
I gather from you limited number of posts, and the forum pages where you post most often, that you are not actively involved in model trains?
That's fine, I still welcome your thoughts.
I was selling model trains when the first Modeltronics onboard sound systems hit the market, and already had 10 years of modeling under my belt then. I'm not much more impressed with onboard sound in small scales today than I was in 1978.
As for cars with loud music, well sure kids around here listen to some rap music, but this is not the "hood". I live in the very rural suburbs, in a county with only 460 people per sq mile, on the outskirts of a 250 year old historic town of only 13,000 people, we are out here with the dairy cows, horse farms, corn fields, and truck farms (and some of Balimore's bedroom community suburbs).
To Atlantic Central. Thanks for the line by line analysis of my post, but really, I thought it obvious I was poking a little fun at the excesses some modellers put into things.
I have seen a couple layouts where the cars on the roads moved - some sort of moving magnet under the roadway to move the vehicles. Perhaps a parade with a marching band. I can hear THOSE coming up the street. And I don't know where you live, but the cars with thousand watt car stereos blasting rap music are certainly audible over the train, at least stopped near me in traffic.
MisterBeasleyBy the way, I think it was here that someone mentioned that prototype cabeese were seldom illuminated while running at the end of a train. Does any know?
Mr.B, The only lights we used at night was the dim light above the conductors desk.. We kept the caboose dark so we could see any hot boxes or sparks from a derail wheel or dragging brakes.
Another reason was to protect ourselves from flying projectiles.. Nothing beats a nice backlighted silhouette for a rock or bottle tosser.
dstarr Looks nice. Probably sounds nice. But wow expensive. I have 15 cabeese on my road average price $6.03.
Looks nice. Probably sounds nice. But wow expensive. I have 15 cabeese on my road average price $6.03.
I have not kept track, but I have paid an average of about 6-7 dollars (including a bargain $3 CN caboose and one Kevin sent me)
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
MisterBeasleyBy the way, I think it was here that someone mentioned that prototype cabeese were seldom illuminated while running at the end of a train.
I used to bum rides in the late '60s and 1970s when a friend of mine worked on Penn-Central. As I recall the conductor would sometimes turn on a small overhead desk lamp if he had orders to read or papers (waybills) to sort. Even then there was usually a coffee tin or some kind of shade rigged to keep the pool of light from straying away from the desk.
Night vision was important to maintain in order to see dragging equipment, hot boxes, sticking brakes and such. If a crew member had something to do in a darkened area they would use their Star lantern and sometimes shade it with their hand or some cardstock to keep the glare out of their eyes.
Regards, Ed
I too prefer my sounds more subdued than the way they come from the factory. I have actually thought of getting one of those mooing stock cars, since I do have a small stockyard and even a tannery further down the line. Fortunately, I never ran across a deal on those stock cars.
I have several Walthers Milwaukee bay window cabeese. I took the time to illuminate one of them, and even add a rudimentary interior, which basically can't be seen because the windows are too small. But, I never thought that a sound installation would be valuable.
By the way, I think it was here that someone mentioned that prototype cabeese were seldom illuminated while running at the end of a train. Does any know?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhen I visit DCC layouts with too many locos with the sound turned up too loud, I can't wait to leave..........
Sheldon,I couldn't agree more..Another thing I can't stand is some one blowing the horn or whistle with every stop and change of direction. In normal switching this is not necessary.. My BLI SW7 came this way.. I set that CV to off.
My DCC/Sound engines has the volume turn down to a very comfortable level and IMHO it sounds much better.
riogrande5761If you are happy with ATSF cabooses painted for other RR's then enjoy yourself. These are not the droids you are looking for, clearly.
Hi riogrande5761,
It wasn't my intent to disparage the Athearn cabooses. They are obviously well done and I believe that the prices are reflective of that quality.
You are quite right. I'm a hack. I'm perfectly happy with my repurposed Athearn BB cabooses despite the fact that they are totally bogus, the grab irons and brake wheels are too thick, and I stole the colour scheme from CP. Algoma Central was an actual railway in northern Ontario but they were eaten up by Canadian Pacific (IIRC) long before steel cabooses hit the scene. I enjoyed the project enormously, but I promise that I won't ask to run them on your layout.
Each to his own. I do have the right to express my opinions.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Other than the primemover turned down to about a 40% level, the diesel horn, and the occasional bell (for about 10 seconds), I never use the other sounds the onboard products provide.
My modern era has no use for a caboose, but if it did, I can't see where I'd want to pay extra for all of those sounds I'd never use.
I don't think I'd like ambient sounds either.
- Douglas
Most of those sounds can be provided by high quality speakers mounted under the layout, not in the moving pieces. Ambient sound does add something, but canned station announcements and such quickly lose whatever appeal they had initial when the same thing is repeated over and over. The ambient noise that DOES repeat in nature is a different story.
Lots of sound locos have things like radio chatter and station calls, even, in the case of MTH, train wreck sounds on some of them - now that is just plain silly, who'd going to pay $400+ for a sound-equipped loco to actually stage a reack (put your hand down, Gomez)? Radio chatter on one of my locos - built and used in a period before railroads used handheld radios, and then even though they were used in excusrions after the dawn of radio, the content of said chatter matches MODERN communications, not what was used in the 60s. Useless, but there was space left in the decoder after all the actual locomotive sounds were in there, so I guess they decided to use it. Canned station calls are another one, unless you are modeling the cities used in the recordings, they don't fit.
I doubt I will put sound in any of my cabooses. Lighting - sure. I will probably go a step beyond the basic constant light circuit and add in a small microcontroller, because even after they started using electric markers (battery powered), the conductor's desk lamp was still an oil lamp, so with the micro I can have the markers lit steadily like an electric light, but have a gentle flicker inside fromt he oil lamps.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Enzoamps We had the engine sounds, so now trains can make a tinny rattle sound as they move. Caboose? OK. Reefers with cooling systems? Great. But how about the stations? We need sound systems for the announcement speakers, and the crossing gates need bells. And how about the loud car stereo sound from the teenager's car at the crossing waiting for the train to pass? Roads and highways have a distinctive car sound from the tires. I can hear my interstate highway from a couple miles away. A tire store needs that VWOOP VWOOP from the air wrenches. And industry has great potential. Refineries, steel mills, sawmills, all make great noises. Sixty some years ago, we painted the plywood green and stuck green sawdust on it for "grass" and called that scenery, fancy was green lichens as trees. Now days we have scale model trees, static grass, even scale corn stalks, molded rock faces, and so on for detailed scenery. Used to be trains made little motor sounds on the track. We need to fill in the audio soundscape in similar fashion. A great scale cacophony.
We had the engine sounds, so now trains can make a tinny rattle sound as they move. Caboose? OK. Reefers with cooling systems? Great. But how about the stations? We need sound systems for the announcement speakers, and the crossing gates need bells. And how about the loud car stereo sound from the teenager's car at the crossing waiting for the train to pass? Roads and highways have a distinctive car sound from the tires. I can hear my interstate highway from a couple miles away. A tire store needs that VWOOP VWOOP from the air wrenches. And industry has great potential. Refineries, steel mills, sawmills, all make great noises.
Sixty some years ago, we painted the plywood green and stuck green sawdust on it for "grass" and called that scenery, fancy was green lichens as trees. Now days we have scale model trees, static grass, even scale corn stalks, molded rock faces, and so on for detailed scenery. Used to be trains made little motor sounds on the track. We need to fill in the audio soundscape in similar fashion. A great scale cacophony.
Really?
First lets talk about scenery. I suggest you search up "Severna Park Model Railroad Club" and look at some pictures. That layout, still in existance today was started in the mid 60's, 50 some years ago, and at that time had, and it still has, scenery that is cutting edge and stands up to anything being done today.
The layout has been featured on the cover of Model Railroader many times, starting in 1973 if I recall.
They were not the only ones doing good scenery that long ago. I was part of the scenery crew.....think "zip texturing".
Sound - Yes, life is noisy, but under what conditions do we hear all those sounds?
If I was in a larger scale, which creates a more intimate relationship with the train, and the other elements of the scene, I would be all into sound.
But not in 1/87 scale, or 1/160.......
Of all your comments about sound, the crossing gate bells make the most sense. Even though I model using DC and do not have sound in my locos, I plan to have crossing gate bells, and layout based crossing horns and whistles. As well as some other ambient sounds.........
When I watch a real train go by, the primary sound of the loco comes and goes quickly as it passes, with only the bass portion of that sound traveling far or being heard at a great distance - the one part of the sound that two 1" speakers in an HO locomotive cannot reproduce......
After the loco passes, I hear the track noise, my metal wheels provide that at no extra cost......
Station sounds? I drive past an AMTRAK station nearly every day that is only 100 or 130 feet from the road I am driving on. I've never heard any such noises that far away.
Again, a viewing distance of 3 actual feet is 270 scale feet in HO. I don't hear any impact wrenches in tire stores from 270' away as a general rule - a sound I know well since I sold MATCO tools for 7 years......
When I visit DCC layouts with too many locos with the sound turned up too loud, I can't wait to leave..........
I will pass on the cacophony thank you. My train room has a killer stereo, 1700 near mint pieces of vinyl, and 700 music CD's.......
BRAKIE riogrande5761 And of course, anyone who models a fantasy RR can use anything on the market and paint them for cheap. Jim,Modeling a believable Freelance railroad takes as much dedication as modeling a prototype. My choices for my freelance railroads was either the Roundhouse 2 window "Eastern" caboose or Athearn side bay. Both filled the requirements for my freelance railroads. As far as the Genesis caboose there is a item missing and it sticks out like a sore thumb.. Those "lazy boy" seats I mention on the other forum. Looking at the copula you can't miss them. That's how I notice them.
riogrande5761 And of course, anyone who models a fantasy RR can use anything on the market and paint them for cheap.
Jim,Modeling a believable Freelance railroad takes as much dedication as modeling a prototype.
My choices for my freelance railroads was either the Roundhouse 2 window "Eastern" caboose or Athearn side bay. Both filled the requirements for my freelance railroads.
As far as the Genesis caboose there is a item missing and it sticks out like a sore thumb.. Those "lazy boy" seats I mention on the other forum. Looking at the copula you can't miss them. That's how I notice them.
Exactly, every loco and caboose that says ATLANTIC CENTRAL is believable for an eastern Appalachian railroad in 1953. There are no UP Big Boys, or offset cupola ATSF caboose lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
No veranda turbines or cab forwards, mostly boring Mikados, Consolidations, Mountains and Pacifics, some 2-6-6-2's, and some other east coast type articulated locos.
riogrande5761And of course, anyone who models a fantasy RR can use anything on the market and paint them for cheap.
These Cabeese are pricey, each more than the price I paid for every one of my locomotives (albeit DC locos, mostly used). But wait, loot at that detail. Again, LOOK AT THAT DETAIL!!!!!
I was particularly struck by how fine the grab irons appear. They ALMOST look TOO THIN! Now that’s a new problem!
I have seen the older SP lighted cabeese at a train club and it’s really nice, the lights certainly add to a train.
So I guess it makes sense to pay $100+ for these Cabeese! Still, no way I can afford such models right now!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Harrison I HAVE to get one of these, mostly for the flat spot sound, I love listening to that sound trackside.
I HAVE to get one of these, mostly for the flat spot sound, I love listening to that sound trackside.
Try listening to a flat whee for 10 hours then let me know. I can say first hand a caboose or the car next to the caboose with a flat wheel gets nerve wracking after the first two miles.
Yup lovely noise those flat wheels.
Bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang never ending banging until you reach the terminal.
tstage And they excluded the flushing toilet??? I liken it to the BLI stock car that moos & oinks. No thanks... Tom
And they excluded the flushing toilet??? I liken it to the BLI stock car that moos & oinks. No thanks...
Tom
Tom,What toilet? You mean that commode looking thing we used to store spare fusses,batteries and odds and ends?
There was very valid reason we didn't want to use that thing.
Well, the new Athearn caboose is very nice, but like a large percentage of these new high detail, proto specific, RTR offerings, it is mostly too new for my era.........and not offered undecorated or in any road name I am remotely interested in.
If the Seaboard version was offered undecorated and unassembled, I might go for a few.
RioGrande, my B&O, C&O and Western Maryland caboose are all reasonably accurate models for those roads, every one for less than $50, most for less than $20.
I too have Blue box Athearn, Bowser, MDC Roundhouse, and Atlas Trainman caboose that I have super detailed to some degree and have or will add lights to for my detection system (I don't bother to detect every car).
Average cost, $15 to $20.
I do have some undecorated Spring Mills Depot wagon top bay window kits that will be built for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, they were about $50 each.
Sound effects? Even if I used DCC, I think not.
A thought on those kinds of sound effects. I'm not a "railfan", I don't sit by the tracks to watch modern trains. But I live near two major mainlines and see moving trains all the time. Many within 100 to 300 feet from the highway or other observation point.
At those distances, few if any of these specific sounds can be heard over the general noise from the train or other ambient sources.
When you look at an HO model from 3 actual feet, you are 270 scale feet away.........what would you reasonably hear?
Sorry, just my opinion, but sound has in some ways made our models more toy like and less realistic, with sound quality only slightly better than a nine transistor radio.........
Um... All my cabooses are brass, the SGRR does not look for the cheap way out. I have a couple plastic steel cabooses I use for props in "modern" photos.
My non-interest in the Athearn caboose is not trolling, it does not meet my needs.
All SGRR cabooses have center cupolas.
All SGRR cabooses are wooden.
My plastic Athearn prop caboose. With careful paint the Blue Box Athearn ATSF style caboose is a very nice looking model:
Even if they are not the "droids I am looking for", I believe I am free to complement Athearn on the magnificent job on these models, which is what I did.
I doubt that Dave's or David's comments on their models, what they did differently, or how much they spent qualifies as anything like trolling.
David and Dave,
If you are happy with ATSF cabooses painted for other RR's then enjoy yourself. These are not the droids you are looking for, clearly. This line of Athearn Genesis ICC cabooses are not aimed at people who need/want or are satisfied with cheap generic cabooses. And of course, anyone who models a fantasy RR can use anything on the market and paint them for cheap. Fine, again, Genesis are not the droids you are looking for.
Some replies here remind me of people who have no interest in a product but just show up to troll or complain. Modus Operandi.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
dstarr I have 15 cabeese on my road average price $6.03.
I like that number much better than $109.99!
My fleet of eight Algoma Eastern cabeese (I love that word!) cost me about $22.00 Cdn. each including buying the Athearn cabooses, lighting components and window glazing. The lighting circuit credit goes to Mark R and it works great. Circuit diagram below.
The camera washed out the marker lights. There is a light for the conductor's desk but it doesn't show up in the photos. I used a very high value resistor so the light glows but is not too bright, like an oil lamp would be.
Here is Mark R's constant lighting circuit:
Yes, it works with a 5 volt capacitor.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Ah yeah, the flat spot bang bang bang. Lovely.