Yuck it up...Burned on eBay---Resolved

[SpaceMouse]

TRAIN LOT OF (2) LOCOMOTIVES WORKING CONDITION A "DEAL"



you are Bidding on a LOT of two LOCOMOTIVES THE TRAINS ARE MINT BUT ONE IS MISSING RAILS THEY ARE ALL BLACK AND DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE MADE THAT WAY OR I AM MISSING DECALES BUT I ASSURE YOU THE BODY IS IN MINT CONDITION NO RUST AT ALL. FIRST TRAIN THE LARGER ONE IS: missing rails and pulling hooks but body in MINT THE LINDBERG LINE AND THE SMALLER ONE SEEMS TO HAVE ALL RAILS AND PULLING HOOKS AND ALSO THE LINDBERG LINE. THE TRAINS LOOK REAALY GREAT. I am not a TRAIN EXPERT but very Honest in my SALES. I don't COPY & PASTE. So what you SEE is what you will GET. Sales are Final and if anyone is not Happy I will work with you. Thanks for your Time and business.

The larger loco is just rolling stock, or if it is an actual locmotive, it is simply missing a motor.

The smaller of the two looked promising. It was covered in gunky dirt and one of the wheels was pushed in. The wheels seem to be brass and one was crudded up with seemed to be a mixture of WD-40 and dirt. After I cleaned it up I put it on the track a cranked it up. Well the sucker whined like a broken fan stuttered down the track a foot or so and jumped the track.

Apparently, working condition means it can sit on a shelf without falling over.

So for $38. You think I bit the big one on this?

[Anonymous]

Just my $.02, but from the looks of them in the picture, description or not, I would'nt have paid more than $10 for both and then used them strictly for parts. Don't forget, Ebay encourages you to ask questions before you buy. Don't get caught up in an auction just because you think you're getting a hell of a deal, because as you unfortunately found out, it was a deal from hell. That's one reason why I'm still so extremely cautious about buying ANYTHING from Ebay. I primarily use Ebay to try to find people in my local state with auctions that I can email and then go meet in person to examine and buy an item in person. There's just too few safeguards in place to assure the quality before everybody jumps on something that turns out to be junk, and with all the scamsters and crooks out there, you're fortunate to have recieved the items at all. Be glad you only lost $38 and not an outrageous amount. Hard lessons are sometimes best learned by experience.

[Anonymous]

Whew... I want to run as far away from that particular auction. I would have paid maybe 5 bucks and even the small one may not be good for all the parts. In fact I would not have bid on this one at all.

Once in a while we all bite the big one. I spend a great deal of time looking for that one specific item for MSRP or lower. I dig down into histories, check the seller out.. I prefer those who understands trains. Or those who take time to answer any question you may have before bidding.

38 dollars is not much money this time. I have seen rusted brass get fought over for hundereds of dollars and it makes me ill to see people throw money after a product that has spent 50 years rusting to almost unusable form.

Or worse... the Athearn Blue Box Open sided pickle tank car get worth 5 dollars retail get bidded to 10 times or more because it is out of production. Obviously the seller is happy but emotions of "I got more money than you do so scram" obviously was at play here.

On th bright side the engtines appear useable for parts that may allow your other similar engines to run. (If you had em) I am trying very very hard to keep a straight face at the seller's description that should be just one word... "Undecorated" And the plastic does not rust. That is strike number two and clangs a warning bell in my head not to touch this item.

[Anonymous]

ouch, tough deal. Like mentioned above be glad you only lost 38 bucks.

[PennsyHoosier]

You could have done worse. Not much, but you could have. [;)]

Seriously, chalk it up to experience. And I have no doubt you'll find some use for those locos. It's nothing to get worked up over.

[SpaceMouse]

I'm not steamed or even mad at myself. I screwed up, but i"m allowed from time to time.

BTW: The guy has had a perfect selling record in the last 12 months. He still may make the deal right.

I think I can make the little guy work. There seems to be a lot of friction about the armature. I almost runs smoothly in reverse and it jumps the tracks in the turnouts.

My first inclination is to spray it with WD-40, but I figure that is wrong because it can collect gunk like I dug off the wheels. What would you guys do to work out the kinks. I think this guy just sat for a bunch of years. What do you think of Kroil for this?

[Anonymous]

Well.. we may be able to save it yet.

Toss the motor and get a replacement. When you take the old one out run the chassis back and forth to see if the drive train is binding anywhere.

Perhaps the trucks are not in thier "Clips" just above the sideframes. Is there any weight at all on the little one?

[dave9999]

I hope you gave this seller a bad feedback rating. I would also email him a link to this topic. Maybe he will give
you a refund... I'm aware that $38 isn't a lot of money, but it is a matter of principle. Dave

[SpaceMouse]

Cute Lil guy--in a butt ugly sort of way.






To answer the question: yes it does have weight. I put a little Rem oil on him and he's starting to smooth out. The coupler needs work and I have to play with the trucks a bit. I'm starting to get optimistic.

[Anonymous]

Oh my lord...[:O] I am not familiar with this engine at all. I feel so embarrased.

[dave9999]

Is it brass?

[fiatfan]

Gator - it's definitely not brass. The shell is made from Delrin plastic, same as the Lindbergh trucks from the "60s. I actually had one. It uses a spring belt for the drive.

SpaceMouse - I'm afraid you may not have gotten the best deal on these. I never could get mine to work very well (but I was only about 16 when I bought mine.)

Tom

[SP4449]

The seller says that both locos are from the Lindberg line? The large unit looks like it has an Athearn SD40-T2 shell. The answer to whether its just missing a motor will come from trying to roll the loco. If the wheels are plastic, turn freely and independently, it is probably a dummy unit and not supposed to have a motor in it. If the wheels are metal and all the wheels in each of the trucks turn together, it has gears inside and should have a motor.

[twhite]

Spacemouse--about the little guy--have you cleaned the wheel-treads yet? Get some alcohol and a Q-tip, turn the little puppy over, apply power and use the Q-tip to de-gunk the wheels. that might help, also. It's kind of a cute little feller, isn't it? But as to WHAT it is, it's beyond me. Maybe an old Varney? Anyone else got any ideas?
Tom

[Anonymous]

Some people don't understand what the definition of "mint" is. According to standards set up by the TCA for collectible trains mint is never ran, not used, maybe removed from the box for inspection, as delivered to the dealer, basically a brand new model. Both engines are stated to be operable engines. An Athearn dummy loco in my book would not be considered an operable engine, and should be stated as unpowered. The shell is definitely an Athearn, Lindberg was long out of business when the SD-40 came along. You can get a set of handrails for the diesel from Athearn and complete the loco, but it is still a undecorated Athearn model.

I would certainly address your concerns to the seller and seek adjustment. The seller from his wording on the site is very unfamiliar with model trains and is using terminology that is incorrect. That would be a sign to stay away from any trains where a seller has only a vague representation of what they are selling. At other times I have seen very knowledgeable people on eBay act dumb to try and pass off something that they think might be rare, but of course, no guarantees. Just puts the thought in people's mind with no assurances that they know what they are talking about.

The Lindberg SW-7 was a great little engine in 1965. They have peculiar operating habits, and with the belt drive it seemed they usually worked well in one direction and not the other. I think it was due to the thrust on the axles that caused this idiosyncracy.

If the Athearn is truly not a powered loco than there was gross misrepresentation and again, with the word mint used in the ad, plus pictures that were not totally forthcoming I would be seeking an adjustment or refund. You are well within your rights and eBay rules to demand a fix.

If a seller is showing such lack of knowledge about trains in a ad it usually is best to move on as you can never tell what you might be getting. Many eBay sellers show up with Lionel trains that are slightly better than junk stating that they are rare pieces in great condition, when in reality they are better used as boat anchors. Happens all the time on auction sites, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

WOW! only driveline ive seen even remotely close to that was in a scratchbuilt engine my friend built long ago. Now, this will probably lead nowhere but sometimes those old engines are really worth something (assuming you clean it up of course). Might want to look into it.

[SpaceMouse]

At low speeds it it pretty hurky-jerky but when it gets up a little steam it is pretty responsive. I think it has more power and than either of my Bachmans's--the Hogwart's Express and the 4-8-4. IT is so much quicker than either of them it is nt funny. I'm thinking with a better transformer than the whimpy Bachman toy I have it might be more responsive at the low end. Definately I have to change out the couplers. They won't hook up with anything I have (unless I force them together by hand.

[Jetrock]

"Quicker" does not necessarily mean "more power." If it runs fast, it probably has a very fast gearing--but you want your trains to run SLOW, not fast.

That description would have scared me senseless. "NO RUST AT ALL"--Gee, amazing, I didn't realize that plastic could rust! "I am not a TRAIN EXPERT" brings new meaning to the term "gross understatement"--this guy had NO IDEA what he was selling. "Pulling hooks"? "Decales"? Plus, if somene goes on and on about how honest they are in their product description, it's a pretty safe bet they are either a ripoff artist or an idiot.

Plus there is NO MENTION of how (or whether) they run.

Tell you what, SpaceMouse. Take a break from buying stuff on eBay. Go to a hobby shop and buy a locomotive, new. Spend $50-100 and talk to the guy behind the counter about what you want and what you are willing to spend.

And get a better transformer. You won't regret it.

It's not a screaming eBay deal--but you won't get ripped off like you just did.

DO NOT SPRAY IT WITH WD-40!!!!!!!!!!!

Get some LaBelle oil at the hobby shop. Add A DROP OR TWO to the gears and to the axles.

The other engine is probably, as mentioned above, a "dummy" locomotive--one sold without an engine.

[Anonymous]

Yeah the seller has a responsibility to list accurately but the buyer has an even biiger responsibility to do the homework before bidding. Based on the pictures and the descriptions - I would have had to ask the seller some questions before I placed a bid - the fact that the seller admits to not knowing trains - only increases the need to ask questions.

Ebay is buyer beware - it is your responsibility to do the research.

Misrepresentation is an entirely different thing - although it appears these items are not what I consider mint (although the seller says the "trains are mint" and then later says the "bodies are mint") - I don't think they were terribly misrepresented. I think that between the pictures and the descriptions there were more than enough red flags that should have prompted further inverstigation.

In the end it sounds like the vendor is willing to work with you - I* would probably pay no more than $15-$20 for the whole lot - including shipping.

Good Luck

[Anonymous]

You really take your chances when you buy from someone whom does not know about the product(s) they are selling. The sellers not knowing is exampled in; (MINT CONDITION NO RUST AT ALL., missing rails and pulling hooks, I am not a TRAIN EXPERT and his not knowing the manufacturer)! Plastic don't rust! Most "laymen" know that locos and rolling stock are connected with couplers, not pulling hooks!

These locos are likely from Lindberg. If the first photo is from the ebay sales site, they are iffy as far as detail.

The seller may not be intentionally ripping off the buyer! He is selling to the highest bidder and the terms are Caveat Emptor or buyer beware! If you are really unhappy with what you bought, the seller suggests contacting him, have you tried this? Also, bad feed back should be left for true instances where someone has been ill treated or truly ripped off! I don't see that here. Did the buyer pay to much? Likely. Did the seller rip him off? Certainly not intentionally. Did the buyer use due diligence? No.

Spacemouse, You could sell the items on Ebay to recoup some or all of your money. I suggest being up front with the listing. You can re-motor and/or repair and use. Does this one incidence mean all ebayers are crooks and only stupid idiots buy stuff on ebay? If so, I must be a crooked idiot then!

[Anonymous]

I've bought some very expensive brass engines, old car kits, and some OPP building kits on eBay and have been pleased with all but one. With a description "...pulling hooks...mint condition...Lindberg..." I'd know that I'm buying from someone who is not a modeler. Lingberg was good in its time buit that was 45 years ago. A lot has changed in that time span.

Other then to say "I did it." I wouldn't invest to much time in these models because the current stuff is so much better.

Alcohol, applied with the Q tip will also clean the armature and make the engine run better. I'd take the engine out, clean it good, lube it sparingly, and then let it run for about an hour and see how hot it gets. Run it both directions for about 15 minutes each time.

Bob

[jrbernier]

I see these kind of listing all the time. The seller usually 'knows' what he is selling, but words the item like he someone who just found these and is willing to sell them. You can get a brand new Athearn SD40-T2 for less than $38.00, and that Lindberg SW1 is a mid 60's offering. I picked up a used on in the early 70's and the spring belt drive was 'so-so'. I repowered it with a single powered Athearn SW7 power truck . Still have it somewhere. It may go in the local train show/flea market this winter with a bunch of other stuff for $5.00 of best offer. I would never sell something like that as a working, good as new engine!

Jim Bernier

[simon1966]

I buy alot from e-bay. Never been really burned, but have had a few dissapointments. Without exception the dissapointments come from purchasing used stuff. Locomotives, rolling stock and structures that are used never seem to quite come up to the level of the glowing descriptions. I have essentially stopped buying used items. "buy it now" items are usually overpriced and so i generally avoid them as well. However, there are still good bargains to be had on e-bay. A lot of new unopened MRR stuff is auctioned with low starting bids, reasonable shipping rates and good sellers. As has been said before, you have to abide by the "buyer beware" mantra. Know what you are buying. Know what the typical market price is for the item, but most importantly, know when to walk away from something.

[tstage]

Spacemouse,

Sorry about the bad experience on eBay. I bid on a GE 44-ton switcher on eBay last summer a bit too hastily before doing the research and ended up purchasing an old dual motor unit that was okay but not worth the price I paid for it. Since the seller did offer to listen to any unsatisfied customers, it would be worth contacting him to see what could be worked out..

As I said in an post to you a week or so ago, don't be afraid to inquire here on the forum first before making a bid on something so that you don't get burned on a so-called "deal". There are some good bargains on eBay; there are some bad ones, too. Chalk it up to a relatively inexpensive lesson. Again, sorry about the disappointment.

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

I didn't know better. No excuses. My son got a train set for Christmas and I wanted to participate. On Dec. 26, I bought this junk. Even before it arrived, I had received a Bachman 4-8-4 and some rolling with a "lot" of track I bought. You win some and loose some.

I did write the guy last night and basically cut and pasted what I wrote to you. No reply yet. I haven't rated the seller yet since I don't know how he will resolve it. If he makes good, that will be my comment. If he says tough cookies, he'll have a different kind of comment and a negative where before he has only positives. I'm going to give him the opportunity to do what's right before I act.

[Anonymous]

Sad to say, It happens - I bought a loco billed as a "Restoration project" only to find some body damage I hadn't noticed in the photos - my mistake! I'll now only buy after taking a good look at the photos and emailing to ask for further pictures if it's unclear. I picked up a CSX Dash 8 (Walthers) listed as "spares/repair" due to having the front truck detached, was very careful to ask for a picture of the damage before bidding and got something of a bargain (about half list price, and apart from needing a new screw to hold the front truck in the loco was in great condition). One good guide I've found is to only buy items that still have their original box - the box will usually have protected the item, and people who keep the boxes tend to take good care of their models too. Hope this helps!

[BRAKIE]

Well,congrats!! You have a old Lindberg SW1.This unit came with a SPRING DRIVE BELT.It howl and ran very jerky due to the spring..All to sadly the spring brakes at least once every 30 mintues of run time.And yes it does indeed have brass wheels as this locomotive was made around 1964/65.
The other unit is a Athearn dummy SD40-2 Tunnel motor..

[SpaceMouse]

What would it take to put a new engine in it?

[jsoderq]

Perfect example about ebay. I have been dealing on ebay for years and never had a problem. First red flag - if the spelling or grammar are "funny" I avoid it like the plague- it means something is fishy -either it is a kid or english is a second language or somebody just doesn't care - don't bid!!!
Second - ALWAYS research what you are bidding on. A simple check would have revealed that lindberg never built a "large diesel" in fact, maybe the SW-1 is the only one they ever made. Lindberg line went to the Mantua Heavyweight series which is now Model Power.
Another red flag - very few modern models come with "decals" a quick question on this board would have brought lots of response about this auction.
Another red flag - if the item looks good to you but no one else bid on it- WHY? Either it is too high priced, a bad piece or misrepresented somehow. If nobody else wants it there is probably a good reason.
Lastly, check your local hobby shop if you can. 99% of these guys are not out to rip you off. They stay in business by being helpful and answering questions ( Ya I know, not all).

[SpaceMouse]

Not that it matters, but here is the bid history.

cengelmann ( 19) US $31.27 Dec-27-04 19:59:09 PST
casper3679 ( 170) US $30.27 Dec-27-04 17:00:47 PST
shipmaster2001 ( 125) US $30.00 Dec-27-04 19:56:38 PST
shipmaster2001 ( 125) US $25.00 Dec-27-04 19:56:04 PST
shipmaster2001 ( 125) US $21.00 Dec-27-04 19:55:48 PST
loco-caboose ( 154) US $15.99 Dec-27-04 19:24:40 PST
loco-caboose ( 154) US $14.99 Dec-27-04 19:24:08 PST
shipmaster2001 ( 125) US $10.00 Dec-26-04 17:54:12 PST
rwhiteneck ( 306) US $10.00 Dec-27-04 15:57:19 PST
loader1 ( 197) US $7.50 Dec-27-04 11:22:48 PST
sergiogeraldes ( 3 ) US $6.10 Dec-26-04 14:48:20 PST