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THE RIVER

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 5, 2019 2:37 AM

Track fiddler
Respectfully take your respectfully somewhere else, .... we're all full up here.  

TF, I hope you retract that comment. I don't think that it is in keeping with the spirit of the forums.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, September 5, 2019 1:28 AM

Ashamed by Bear, on Flickr

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 5, 2019 12:32 AM

Lightning

You're welcome.

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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:54 PM

Track fiddler

Hey, ......can we go back to the river

One of my favorite Springsteen songs Yes

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:53 PM

Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:48 PM

Hey, ......can we go back to the river

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:44 PM

 

Track fiddler

Respectfully what?

Normally I would wait till morning to post but I like all these people I have have been talking to for many years.

I like these people. Respectfully take your respectfully somewhere else, .... we're all full up here.

Track Fiddler

 

I'm not sure I get the gist of your reply here, TF.

Track fiddler
That's why I posted, ...... Comments or thoughts.

Comments or thoughts?

John offered his comments and thoughts and you tell him to take a hike?

Exactly what kind of reply are you looking for?

Also respectfully, Ed

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 10:49 PM

Edit.  Retracted reply.

Thanks for your comments.

 

TF

 

 

 

 

 

  

  • Member since
    March 2016
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Posted by PRR8259 on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 9:42 PM

No, they are NOT all the same.

My business is civil engineering design.  There are so many factors involved.  Today others in my profession are attempting to restore river and stream channels to their former "natural" condition (before my predecessors mucked them up by altering them in the name of progress).  We even have beach erosion engineers who work to restore the sand on our beaches.

Grade is rise in feet divided by run (horizontal distance) also in feet, times 100% (in order to express the result in percent).  Rivers have an average grade, just like the railroads and roads that often follow them.

River channels all vary due to unique geological circumstances associated with the regions they cut through.  The grades are never the same.  Even then, the sideslopes of the mountains varied, and the stability of the rock affected where tunnels could be built or where other methods would be required.

In Armstrong's excellent "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" he presented a wonderful case study of the Lehigh Valley mainline, and how to model it.  He discussed the civil engineering challenges faced by the Lehigh Valley.  It is an excellent example of how to model a "river railroad".  Pity so much of it is now gone without even a trace remaining--the vegetation has overgrown the old right-of-way so much that only the most familiar local fans can even find some sections via local landmarks.

The Western Pacific's Feather River Canyon was heavily degraded by gold mining operations that used water to erode embankment, and most everybody knows that the Feather River Canyon averages approximately 1% grade for over 100 miles.

Other rivers in the Eastern U.S. can be as flat as 0.25% grade.  It just depends...

Great effort has been expended to improve hydraulic models, and we learned that natural channels reach a "homeostasis" where their banks, grades, sandbars, etc. become stable and don't move around much, and erosion is minimized.  Then mankind's grading operations, in many cases, disrupted the natural channels and made erosion and deposition a whole lot worse.  Through careful study, some of them are being restored.  We are much better about sustainable development now.

The problems along the Mississippi are a direct result of too many "well meaning" engineers trying to confine the river channel via levees, etc.  In recent years we've learned that was a most egregious mistake--all the levees can make the flooding that much worse for those towns less fortunate which do not have their own levee.  We have effectively "designed" superfloods into existence by overcrowding the channel.

Respectfully submitted-- 

John

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THE RIVER
Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 9:22 PM

The river is wherever you live.  The river flows wherever you see it.  We all have our favorite River places.

Railroad Bridges cross the river.  So do all the Bridges.  Where you stretch a level line across the river it will be level.  There is no arguing that.  Not necessarily straight across,  it's a matter of a level basis.

Where you stretch a level line down the river a few miles,  of course it is lower, that's why it flows, ...... everyone knows that.

What is the grade?  Just like railroads,  River grades are different.

 

 

Everyone knows railroads ran their tracks down the side of the river for this reason, ...... everyone knows that.

There is no white water rapids on the Minnesota River, the Mississippi River or the Missouri River.  I'm sure you're getting to the gist of my point.

Rivers always look level looking at them but they are not.  They have a grade just like railroad tracks.  Did you ever think about determining the grade of a river from one to the next.  I never did until now.  It gave me something to think about.

That's why I posted, ...... Comments or thoughts.

What is the grade of a river?  

After a while do they eventually all carve out and end up the same?

 

 

Track Fiddler

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