Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Will this tariff apply only to Chinese items or to all foreign imports? Think Rapido and it's large American fan base.
I have limited experience with tariffs through work and many things are possible. First, there is no sneaking things in the back door through another country. Rapido products made in China may or may not be tariffed going into the U.S. BLI products being shipped to Canada or elsewhere outside the U.S. will likely have the tariff removed as it leaves the U.S. That accounting will be done by BLI and other suppliers.
I have a large industrial electrical supplier near me and since tariffs have gone in, it is packed with American contractors picking up supplies and taking them back across the border. They do pay the tariffs on the return trip. The problem is the availability of product in the U.S. is drying up as importers are not bringing stuff into the U.S. as they are hoping the tariffs will come off and the price will come back down. The cost for these companies to send people to Canada to pick up this stuff is added to the bill of the consumer in the end.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It's not a surprise about the tariffs. Call it a product of the trade war. Things will settle down once the initial shock subsides.
Perhaps just another round in the hobby is getting too expensive drum beat.
BATMANRapido products made in China may or may not be tariffed going into the U.S. BLI products being shipped to Canada or elsewhere outside the U.S. will likely have the tariff removed as it leaves the U.S.
I assume Rapido products are distributed from Canada. The US - China tariffs shouldn't affect Rapido at all. The US - Canada tariff were lifted.
I don't see why a tariff is "removed" for imports from China to the US that are later sold elewhere, internationally.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Ah, no reason to worry over a measly 10% tariff, or even the 25% one being bandied about. This will surely bring model manufacturing back to the U.S.A., which will make those tariffs look like the few specks of dust left in your wallet after your next purchase.
EDIT:
BigDaddy....I assume Rapido products are distributed from Canada. The US - China tariff shouldn't affect Rapido at all. The US - Canada tariff were lifted....
Canada's currently not exactly on a first-name basis with China, either, although it's not over tariffs. They have, however, embargoed some Canadian agricultural products.
In my opinion, simply a bunch of big boys acting like little kids, pretty-well to the detriment of all parties.
Wayne
riogrande5761 Perhaps just another round in the hobby is getting too expensive drum beat.
Another 50 ($80.00 Can) bucks on an engine would not affect my buying decision but it will for some. It will be interesting to see if BLI and others have to pay the tariff if they export these products out of the country.
I'll stick to buying used brass steam locomotives that are already in the USA.
.
I would have done that anyway. This effects nothing for me.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BigDaddy BATMAN Rapido products made in China may or may not be tariffed going into the U.S. BLI products being shipped to Canada or elsewhere outside the U.S. will likely have the tariff removed as it leaves the U.S. I assume Rapido products are distributed from Canada. The US - China tariffs shouldn't affect Rapido at all. The US - Canada tariff were lifted. I don't see why a tariff is "removed" for imports from China to the US that are later sold elewhere, internationally.
BATMAN Rapido products made in China may or may not be tariffed going into the U.S. BLI products being shipped to Canada or elsewhere outside the U.S. will likely have the tariff removed as it leaves the U.S.
I don't know anything about the current rules regarding tariffs and/or duties. However in the past where the product was/is made, not distributed from, is what determined import duties. There was no doing an end-run around duties by bringing product in from a third country.
A tariff can be removed or not even applied just as easily if it is just passing through to the customer in a third country. The old NAFTA rules ( in a simplified form) meant free trade applied only to products manufactured in Canada, the United States or Mexico could move freely between those three countries.
I haven't purchased a BLI product "new" in 10-11 years and I don't expect that the change anytime soon. If it does then I'll ponder whether it's worth the cost or not and go from there...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageI haven't purchased a BLI product "new" in 10-11 years and I don't expect that the change anytime soon.
The tariff applies to all our toy train companies and their made in China products, not just BLI.
SeeYou190 I would have done that anyway. This effects nothing for me. -Kevin
So these are not the droids you are looking for.
Move along, move along.
Not being political but trying to be somewhat factual. There is rhetoric that misrepresents the mechanics of how the money flows.
I believe that the current way China is dealing with the tariffs is to lower the price of the product so that the American consumer is paying the same price they would if there was no tariff. If not, the consumer would be paying the tariff, or a 25% higher price as an example. I believe China devaluing its currency is the mechanical process by how they are eating the cost of the tariff. I assume if it gets bad enough for them, they would eventually have to pass on the costs to the American consumer.
So, we should not have seen any increase in prices of our model trains because the more centrally run Chinese economy is forcing the producers...not our importers....to eat the costs so far.
Not sure about products produced in Canada or Mexico but I assume independent producers would choose to react in the same way at first, but because they are more independent they might not get the benefit of a government policy that devalued the currency, so they might have to pass along the cost of the tariff to the consumer more quickly.
Perhaps the additional 10% crossed the line and more costs have to now be passed along. I don't know who manufactures BLI.
- Douglas
Douglas is correct about the currency devaluation, it may ease the blow by 4% or so. China's currency tends to claw its way back up fairly quickly though so the price will be in flux and that is never as good as stability. The price of anthracite, natural gas, and oil will be an interesting watch as so many products are made out of both. I smell oppourtunity. Got to love the free market economy.
Doughless I believe that the current way China is dealing with the tariffs is to lower the price of the product so that the American consumer is paying the same price they would if there was no tariff.... [snip].... I believe China devaluing its currency is the mechanical process by how they are eating the cost of the tariff.....
I believe that the current way China is dealing with the tariffs is to lower the price of the product so that the American consumer is paying the same price they would if there was no tariff.... [snip].... I believe China devaluing its currency is the mechanical process by how they are eating the cost of the tariff.....
Yes, China quickly devalued its currency after the USA imposed the new tariffs. In theory, if the devaluation exactly matches the tariff, the end purchaser sees no price change--the importer is paying the tariff, raising the cost of the Chinese made item, but the basic cost of the import has gone down because the importer's currency (US dollars, in this case) is worth more in transactions with Chinese businesses, i.e., 1 USD buys more Chinese currency (or stuff) than it previously did.
In practice, importers might or might pass the currency savings along to retail customers. In the opening example, BLI could undo some of the pending price increase in light of the Chinese currency devaluation. Or it could keep the new, higher price based on the tariff (since customers have heard about that and expect an increase), and pocket the compensating savings due to the devaluation (since perhaps fewer people have heard of, or understand, that change).Time will tell....
And note that the currency devaluation lowers prices of Chinese goods for everyone except the Chinese themselves; e.g., 1 Euro, 1 CAD, 1 pound, etc. buys a little more Chinese stuff than it previously did (all else being equal). Also note that some other exporting countries have devalued their currencies to try to match the Chinese move.
SpringStreet In practice, importers might or might pass the currency savings along to retail customers. In the opening example, BLI could undo some of the pending price increase in light of the Chinese currency devaluation. Or it could keep the new, higher price based on the tariff (since customers have heard about that and expect an increase), and pocket the compensating savings due to the devaluation (since perhaps fewer people have heard of, or understand, that change).Time will tell....
Which is something that struck me when reading BL1s message. I don't know their situation, but part of me was wondering if they simply are not just choosing to increase prices to see what the market will bear in traditional fashion and it's not really totally tariff related.
SpringStreetAlso note that some other exporting countries have devalued their currencies to try to match the Chinese move.
Which causes a lower inflation rate, which causes lower wages and on it goes. The U.S. tariffs will give the rest of the world a break on prices on all those products made in China until the yuan claws its way back up from its temporary dip.
How can the U.S., Canada, and other industrialized countries have enough workers to fill all these manufacturing jobs with such a low unemployment rate? These current labour shortages were predicted when I was a kid in the sixties as the boomers would leave the labour pool.
In the meantime maybe I will get a price break on the next two steamers Rapido is bringing out. Though I suspect the Yuan will have long since bounced back.
I think a lot of the MRR companies are doing cash flow analysis as we speak, it will be interesting to see if others follow suit.
Riogrande5761, love your Father Ted reference.
BATMAN Which causes a lower inflation rate, which causes lower wages and on it goes. The U.S. tariffs will give the rest of the world a break on prices on all those products made in China until the yuan claws its way back up from its temporary dip.
The devaluation of the yuan in response to US tariffs causes a lower inflation rate for the USA and the rest of the world. In China, their people experience a higher inflation rate. I think that's the effect.
Since China, although it has some free enterprise, is still primarily a "command economy" (i.e. the government controls who gets paid what etc.), inflation and recessions and such don't really affect their people that much.
Remember BTW that China doesn't pay the tariffs, the US purchaser of the Chinese product does.
BATMAN tstage I haven't purchased a BLI product "new" in 10-11 years and I don't expect that the change anytime soon. The tariff applies to all our toy train companies and their made in China products, not just BLI.
tstage I haven't purchased a BLI product "new" in 10-11 years and I don't expect that the change anytime soon.
Yea, I get that, Brent. It was primarily a comment on the length of time that I've purchased anything new from BLI. Should the time come when I do purchase something new from a manufacturer whose product is shipped from China, I'll evaluate whether the higher price is worth it to me or not.
Right now I have more than enough locomotives and rolling stock. So I don't expect to make very many additional purchases of either of those - unless it's something very specific to my prototype, or something I don't already have.
I have most of the expensive stuff I need or want.........
Like Tom, I will evaluate costs when it is time to purchase something.
Interesting sidebar, as originally written, the US Constitution only allowed the central goverment two forms of taxation, tariffs and duties - one in the same really, OR a direct apportioned tax, which works like this - there are one thousand citizens, the government has a budget that requires $10,000, each citizen pays $10.
Sheldon
SeeYou190 I'll stick to buying used brass steam locomotives that are already in the USA. . I would have done that anyway. This effects nothing for me. . -Kevin .
Kevin, I been buying used for years.. That's how my champagne tastes fits my beer wallet.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL the US Constitution only allowed the central goverment two forms of taxation, tariffs and duties - one in the same really
the US Constitution only allowed the central goverment two forms of taxation, tariffs and duties - one in the same really
So central were tariffs to the early nation that they stood down the Continental Navy to save money, found out they needed a maritime service to enforce tariffs, and founded the precursor to the Coast Guard.
Four years later, figured out that whole no Navy thing was penny wise and pound foolish and bought a Navy too.
Atlas posted an article pertaining to this topic on its Facebook . Among the comments in the article is it is uncertain if the 10% tariff will actually go into effect. Potential events might change it. Also, the date of September 1 is not clear. It might be the date shipped from China or the date arriving in the USA.
Also, some people here are commenting on China devaluing its currency . That is true, and it should offset the new tariff if it actually goes into effect.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
wjstix Since China, although it has some free enterprise, is still primarily a "command economy" (i.e. the government controls who gets paid what etc.), inflation and recessions and such don't really affect their people that much. Remember BTW that China doesn't pay the tariffs, the US purchaser of the Chinese product does.
We just talked about that upstream. Yes, the mechanics of tariffs is that the consumer traditionally pays the additional tax that's leveed at the port when they buy the product off of the local shelf.
Except what's been happening in this case is that China wants to protect its industries so they are (commanding via currency devaluation) the producers charge 25% less than before in order for the leveed tariff to have no effect on the American consumer. So the consumer has not really been paying the tariff, the chinese producers have.
AFAIK, no American importer of chinese made trains has raised their prices over the past year until BL1 just announced it, and I have some skepticism that tariffs are the legit reason.
Maybe the first hit of 25% tariffs didn't apply to goods like model trains, but this next 10% does. But no matter, what the Chinese have been doing to offset other tariffs still might apply to trains.
ATLANTIC CENTRALInteresting sidebar, as originally written, the US Constitution only allowed the central goverment two forms of taxation, tariffs and duties
And a year later came excise tax and the Whiskey Rebellion.
Huge companies hedge their currency exposure, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. I don't know if MR companies to that, nor how it's done. Passing price increase along, like fuel surcharges, is fairly common. Passing along price decreases...does it happen?
Brent I think? we are on the same page.
I know this is anecdotal ...
My friend is a graphic artist with a contract with a large U.S. pharmacy. He is swamped with work changing labels from "Made in China" to "Made in Vietnam".
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."