Getting back into the hobby after 20+ years. How nrthings have changed!!
Looking at getting a A Budd RDC-2/3 DC and deciding on a decoder brand later. I don't want to buy a model that might have poor gearing or motor. I would also apprciate any experiences in converting to DCC.
Confused with the brands I find. Proto 1000, Rapido, Life-Like, etc.
Which one first offered this model? Are they still in business?
Is there a history of one company buying out another or at least the tooling?
If you prefer one brand over another (of this specific model), can you provide some reasons (PM would be fine, also)?
Thanks for helping an old man jumping back into a strangely different pool!
to the forum. Initial posts are moderated and seem to show up in chronological order when you posted not when they were later approved. Hence your post may have been not seen by those looking at the latest posts.
x-airbusdriverWhich one first offered this model? Are they still in business?
I don't know much about Budd models. Life Like was probably the earliest. They sold their tooling to Walthers and went out of business. Walthers produced the Proto 1000 and 2000. Some of Life Like's models, like the GP-7 had gear cracking problems. I don't know if it affected the Budds. The fix is simple.
Rapido in a current manufacture with excellent reputation for detail and quality. It's going to be the most pricey. Only the later production allows you to turn the interior lights on and off. You can probably find one of their Budd youtube videos easy enough. They also bought a real Budd.
If you are planning on getting into sound and DCC, there isn't any cost savings in installing your own speaker and decoder. In fairness, not everyone likes sound.
The RDC is a long car. I dunno what the minimum radius is, but it will look better on the largest radius you can manage.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
The Life Like is the Proto series, after Walthers bought it up. I think there is only the Proto 1000 bud RDC, I don't think there was ever a Proto 2000 released, but I could be wrong, I've just never seen one.
I have a P1K RDC, I haven't switched it over to DCC yet, but in DC, it runs fine.
If I was in the market for a new one, I'd go with Rapido. They are pricey, but I believe they are a lot more accurate.
They are a scale 85' long, like the prototype, and will work on a 24" radius, but bigger is better.
Most of the passenger equipment you'l find is also 85' long.
A long time ago, Athearn produced many RDC's, they were 72' long, I think, and they had the rubber band drive. Those are pretty plentiful on Ebay. for usually cheap money, but you'd have to repower it.
The P1K RDC's can be found on Ebay, usually around $50 to 70.
Mike.
My You Tube
Hi,
The newest offering and the ones with the highest level of detail are the ones offered by Rapido Trains. I have a pair with DCC and sound and I'm very impressed with them.
IMG_8577 by Edmund, on Flickr
This level of detail and quality comes with a higher cost, of course.
NYC_Rapido_RDC by Edmund, on Flickr
Before the Rapido models there was the "Proto 1000" by Life-Like. They were a welcome improvement over the previous rubber-band drive Athearn models from the 1960s.
I had about a dozen of the Life-Like RDCs and none ever gave me any troubles. Walthers bought Life-Like in the early 2000s or thereabouts. I don't recall that Walthers ever produced any more RDCs after buying Life-Like.
IMG_2927B&Ofix by Edmund, on Flickr
The Life-Like RDCs run smoothly (only 2 axles are driven) but they are slow by passenger standards, probably topping out at about 50 scale MPH. OK for smaller layouts, though. The paint finish looks more like grainy graphite rather than polished stainless steel.
The Life-Like RDCs were sort-of DCC ready with some traces that had to be cut on the overhead PC board. Any Life-Like RDC you find will probably be at least a dozen or so years old. L-L made tons of them and many are still collecting dust on dealer shelves.
The "vintage" Athearn RDCs are still workable models but the drive system, details, lighting and slightly shorter length make them a bit less desireable to some modelers.
Good Luck, Ed
Just a quick (and from memory) "up to speed" update re Life-Like...in the late 1980's Life-Like and Bachmann decided to upgrade from their usual 'train set grade' models to a much better made / better detailed line. Life-Like's was called Proto 2000, Bachmann's was called Spectrum. Later, Life-Like came out with the Proto 1000 line, which had the improved motors and such of the Proto 2000 line, but generally were a little less detailed. The Life-Like train line was purchased by Walthers in the early 2000's, and they continue to make former Life-Like products like the E-units, but with improvements.
Rapido is a Canadian company, who make very smooth running models, usually exhaustively researched and detailed - to the point of crawling around under RDC's to measure and photograph all the underneath appliances, and doing their own sound recordings for some of the sound equipped models.
WOW! Thanks Henry, Mike, Ed, & Stix!
Lots of quick, interesting and useful info!
I may never actually have a place at home for running an RDC. The "layout" room was confiscated many years ago! But It would work fine on the modular groups super wide main line curves! I will probably save my 'pennies' and go with the Walthers/Rapido model. Some of the much higher cost is surely due to inflation, anyway. But I've also read and heard many positive comments about Rapido. I had no idea they were Canadian, thought they might be European!
Athearn ones are probably ooen of the oldest - but they are scaled down shorties, not full length. AT&T (not the phone company) also sold a shorty version back in the day. Certainly there were others. The P1K models are full length and good runners. Fairly easy to conver ttoo DCC. Rapido is the ultimate, for now. better than many brass models. Not only do they crawl all around them getting measurements, they also used a 3D laser scanner to scan a prototype to get the dimensions and contours just right.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I do believe the Rapido RDC is not designed to pull another unpowered car. I'm thinking it is the drive system (weak point). I think I read this in the Operation Manual. I'm waiting for one or two in PC livery.
I will second the recommendation of Rapido RDCs. They are the best ever on the market. These cars have absolutely brilliant detail and prototype accuracy!
If you can’t afford/find a Rapido RDC, look for a P1K, they will be cheaper but not as detailed and older, they haven’t been made in almost 29 years!
PC101 I do believe the Rapido RDC is not designed to pull another unpowered car. I think it is the drive system (weak point). I think I read this in the Operation Manual.
I do believe the Rapido RDC is not designed to pull another unpowered car. I think it is the drive system (weak point). I think I read this in the Operation Manual.
If your following prototype practice, the RDCs will never need to pull another non-power car on it’s own. The only railroads to coupler RDCs to other cars used them as unpowered coaches in later years. If you follow prototype practice the low pulling power shouldn’t be an issue.
The reason for the low pulling power of Rapido cars is the motor was made smaller to there could be a fully detailed interior in the car, without a motor poking through the seats!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
If you can afford the $$$, you can not go wrong with Rapido. The DCC sound models sound great, we have a few at the Boothbay Ralway Villlage layout and the run and sound great. Thsi is a list form Walthers of the current runhttps://www.walthers.com/search/category/products/trains/locomotives-traction/scale/ho-scale/manufacturer-name/rapido-trains-inc/mode/list/show/120?match=AND&q=RDC
The Proro 1000 ones are OK, if you can find them at train shows. Factory DCC was not available, and installing the decoder is a bit tricky. I did a couple, for BBay. There is a section of the circuit board that needs modifcation for a decoder to work properly. There is a how to on the Train Control Systems website
rrinker Athearn ones are probably ooen of the oldest
The original Athearn RDCs were rubber band drive, and they continued this design with the ones released in the early 90s.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Early Proto RDCs can be had for about $50. Later models have a metallic finish and are usually over $100.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
A bit off-topic, but it appears that even you Amtrack folks could include an "RDC-A" in your fleets!
Railpictures.net
I've had my Proto1000 RDC3 for about 9-years and have had no troubles. I think I paid $20 for it at TrainWorld. I applied the striping to the front and back panels myself. It is equipped with a Digitrax DH123 decoder for motor control and lighting. A home crafted light bar does the interior lighting and a few passengers and a painted interior finished the job. The model runs very smoothly and quietly. I occasionally attach an 85-foot coach which doesn't seem to have any negative effect on the RDC.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Welcome back to the hobby.
You can't beat Rapido for detail and overall quality. Being a pilot you probably notice and appreciate details that others would miss.
I would have a hard think about starting out with DC and converting to DCC down the road. Changing over down the road can be aggravating. I have two new DC engines still in the box as I just have not had the time to put decoders in them. If you haven't had a chance to play on a DCC layout, try and find someone in your area that will let you come over and have a look. If you post the general area where you live there may be someone on this very forum that would give you an invite to see what DCC is all about.
This forum is a good place to ask questions as it is full of good people. I live an hour SE of Vancouver if that is any help.
Good luck.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Well, I hope you "Rapido guys" are happy! Looks like I'll have to buy a Sound equipped -2 and one of the 6133 models! And I don't even have any track in the house!!
Thanks for the link, BATMAN. I'm bettin' you have some 'stick' time, too?
The M&StL RDC-4's did pull other cars, but not for long. They sold/traded them to the C&O for some used hopper cars!
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernierThe M&StL RDC-4's did pull other cars, but not for long.
Perhaps they didn't read the warranty!!! Rapido claims Budd would void the warranty if a railroad pulled anything (except other powered RDC's)! At least the "reasoning" that Rapido used to say using their RDC models as 'locomotives' would void their warranty. There's a paragraph right in the first few pages of the booklet that comes with the models. With a little young-in-cheek, Rapido claims they have installed tiny, secret strain gauges/recorders in the trucks! If you send an RDC model back for service, and the gauges or gears show that you were pulling non-powered cars, you migh have to pay extra... Hopefully, they will accept HO scale money.
Welcome aboard!
If its RDCs, Rapido is the best, no doubt about it. As a guy who grew up in the RDC capital of the world, (Boston, MA) I became familiar with Mr. Budd's baby early on. For those who want to pull coaches with them, I'll tell you what Budd told the New Haven when they painted some Osgood-Bradley coaches silver with the intention of running them between two RDCs--DON'T! You run those coaches and your warranty is null and void.
The RDC does not have traction motors, they are not diesel-electrics, they have torque converters instead and are not locomotives. The only RDC type equipment to have traction motors was the New Haven's one-of-a-kind "Roger Williams" which was one of Patrick McGinnis' lightweights of the 1950s. It was designed to operate between Boston and New York, meaning it would have to operate off of electricity to enter Grand Central, hence traction motors. Of the three lightweight experimentals on the New Haven, the "Roger Williams" was the only one to enjoy any degree of success, operating as a regular RDC.
Of the HO offerings, your willingness to accept compromises in accuracy and the thickness of your wallet will be your guide. The Athearn model--rubber bands, 72 scale feet of an 85 foot car?? Proto 1000. Not bad but incorrect engine housings, lots of missing grab irons, drive mechanism in the passenger compartment--but it runs well. Rapido. If it is accuracy and quality, there is only one model out there. Note. I do not run sound or DCC so, I can't speak to those issues but, I am more than happy with my Rapidos.
x-airbusdriverWith a little young-in-cheek, Rapido claims they have installed tiny, secret strain gauges/recorders in the trucks! I
Jason, owner of Rapido, is a member here. Watch a few of his videos and you will discover he has a unique sense of humor.
"young-in-cheek"?! I hate it when the computer thinks it nose mor than eye dew!!!
As for the Rapido "humor" (do they include a "U", ey?)... I was kinda hoping that if I bought one of their special 6133 models they would ease off some of their "off-the-rail" videos. [why no 'scram' smilie?]
Jason Shron and the Rapido crews 'humour' might not be fully understood by the younger folks, as it is often based on references to old TV shows like the original Star Trek or Doctor Who, and largely to a 1970's - 1980's TV show called Second City Television or just "SCTV".
Although primarily aimed at the US market, SCTV was created by the Second City comedy troupe in Toronto, Ontario, and the show was filmed there. To fulfill Canada's "Canadian content" law, each half hour episode included a 2-minute pretend program featuring Dave Thomas and Rick Moranis as the MacKenzie brothers, two dimwitted Canadians hosting a program called "The Great White North", speaking in a broad parody of the Canadian accent and slang (beauty, eh?) while drinking Molson's beer and frying back bacon.
jrbernier The M&StL RDC-4's did pull other cars, but not for long. They sold/traded them to the C&O for some used hopper cars!
For drivetrain, the real RDCs were more or less busses (maybe tanks - the torque convertor was similar to the one used in Patton tanks). Only 1 axle of each truck is driven, and fully loaded it's already pushing the limits of the torque convertor. Pulling a loaded car - yeah, way too much for it to handle. THe diesels are pretty much the same ones used in busses, GM/Detroit 6-110's.
Budd's answer to pulling a trailer car was the RDC-9, full length coach with one diesel and no control cab. So it seems like 3 powered axles, 3 motors and torque convertors, was enough for the main unit plus a trailer. A little extra for each trailer.
As for Jason and the folks at Rapido, their sense of humor is readily apparent in most any of their videos - not only in the on screen antics, but be sure to read the credits at the end of them as well. Seems like it would be a really awesome place to work, if I had any skills worthwhile to them.
I would also place Rapido at the top of the pile for non brass RDC's. I would say if you can afford it, spring for the full DCC/sound version. As the owner of Rapido bought an ex Via rail car, the recording of the Detroit Diesel engines is spot on and the interiors with the lights on are stunning on the videos I have watched. Even some nice ones posted by Rapido showing the developement of the models. I have an older NJ Custom Brass car. Even on 22" curves, a full length car is huge. If you are stuck with tight radius curves, one of the older Athearn cars with either the Ernst gear upgrade or other better non rubber band drive might be a good solution if your layout cannot handle a full length coach. Mike the Aspie
Here is my old NJ Custom Brass RDC-2, no windows or interior and I still need to paint the undercariage.
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Hi all,
It is tremendously heartening to read such positive comments about our RDC models, and it is also nice to see that people appreciate our absurd antics.
This hobby is all about fun, and while our sense of humour/humor is not to everyone's taste, the important thing is that we're having fun while we're in this business.
Dan, Janet and I just recorded a video at a couple of model railroads in New Jersey. We weren't actually promoting anything - we were just seeing some great layouts while having a good time. Hopefully I can get it online next week, but as it involves numerous green screen flying locomotive sequences it may take a while to edit....
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
rrinkerTHe diesels are pretty much the same ones used in busses, GM/Detroit 6-110's.
.
Were Detroit Diesel 6-110 engines ever used in buses?
I have seen buses powered by 6V-53, 6-71, 6V-71, 6V-92 and 8V-92, but never any engine in the 110 series. I have never heard of the 110 series used in any on-highway application.
If they were installed in buses, were they horizontal underfloor installations, 45 degree V-drive, or straight up rear engine drives?
-Kevin
Living the dream.