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Simple Window Shades for Passenger Cars / Body Height Question

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Simple Window Shades for Passenger Cars / Body Height Question
Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, April 7, 2019 8:45 AM

Hi rail crew Big Smile

This is to answer questions I received regarding the window shades in my passenger cars.  Thank you for the kind compliments to those that emailed me.

There are multiple options / approaches passenger car modelers can take, including the use of realistic products that are on the market, like the Venetian blinds from Plano.   (Masking tape is easiest, but it tends to "yellow" over time. Good for tan or beige colored shades, not so good for white or gray).

Understandably, my approach may be considered crude, but it is quick and easy with durable results.  NOTE: Make that sure your hands are clean and dry for the following:

 

PLASTRUCT: #90718  .010 x .187  (Window shades covering a SMALL portion of the upper section of windows)

PLASTRUCT: #90719  .010 x .250  (Window shades covering a LARGER or entire portions of the windows)

Determine which windows you want to have with shades in particular positions.  To keep it simple, cut most of your strips in lengths that cover 3 to 4 windows at a time and alternate between the .187's and .250's. Make things visually interesting by making sure that no two cars have the same window shade position patterns.   

After cutting your shades, trial fit first. When ready apply small dabs of either Microscale Kristal Klear or Model Master Clear Parts & Window Maker adhesive, to the wall sections between the windows on the glazing strips. If the shade overlaps above the window(s), apply adhesive in that area too.  Apply the strips, rub gently but firmly, let sit for 10 to 15 minutes (longer in cool temperatures).  Flip the shell over, same method, and you're done.YesCool


 

Now, if only I could find a way to paint those "pesky" black window gaskets on HO Budd units!

 I hope this helps

 Hi Greens

 



 

AntonioFP45

 

 

 

 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, April 7, 2019 9:03 AM

Thanks, Antonio

I've used various methods over the years including the nice looking Plano etched blinds. I have some silvert-looking paper that was used in an old thermal-printing calculator I once had. This, to me, replicates the silver/gray look of the reflective backing that many of the lightweight cars used.

For those that want to spruce up some heavyweights, AMB Laserkit has some nice window treatments including pre-cut shades:

http://www.rgspemkt.com/BLWININDX.html

I used some of these in a "foobie" Big Four business car I recently turned out:

 Big4_business-car4 by Edmund, on Flickr

 Big4_business-carcrop by Edmund, on Flickr

Here's something I'd like to find and I'm open to suggestions. Some of the lightweight cars used a horizontal-bar kind of frosted window. I wonder what would be a good way to replicate that? LaserKit has something close in their #352 set but I'd like larger ones for lightweight cars.

 

Thank You, Ed

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, April 7, 2019 9:05 AM

Nice Antonio, thanks!  Your right about the tape.

Simple, just styrene strips.  Looks good!

Window gaskets are tuff.  I've tried a couple different times on diesel windows, ended up cleaning it off.

You can get one just perfect, and then the next one is a disaster, so it ruins the whole thing.

One I haven't tried yet, as I just thought of it, using a lead holder from my drawing stuff, keeping the point sharp, and drawing it.

Mike.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, April 7, 2019 3:58 PM

I use .010" sheet styrene to make window shades, both for passenger cars and structures, then cement a strip of .020"x.040" along the top edge of the outer face of the shades.  After applying masking tape over the strip, the shades are airbrushed using a suitable colour.  With the masking removed, the strip is then cemented to either the "glass" above the window area or the wall above the glass.  This places the shades close to the glass, but not touching, so no fear of wayward solvent cement marring the windows...

There's a how-to on page two of this thread, which deals with building a shanty for a crossing guard.  The process is similar for passenger cars, but you can use longer lengths of multiple shades for the latter, doing coaches in a full-length strip on either side of the car.

Wayne

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Posted by chatanuga on Sunday, April 7, 2019 4:27 PM

When I did my window shades on my Amtrak cars, I printed off just a gray background on the blank side of a large index card or two.  I then cut out the individual shades for whichever windows were getting them and then taped them inside the windows.  I only wanted a few windows to get shades on each car to just give them that "lived in" look with passengers in some of the other windows that didn't have shades.

Kevin

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, April 7, 2019 5:18 PM

Speaking of printing shades, Jason Shron of Rapido Trains has generously  provided a printable sheet of window shades for their New Haven 8600 cars.

https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2016/07/nh-8600s-shades.pdf

I'm guessing he won't mind if you decide to use them in other cars, too.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, April 7, 2019 8:13 PM

Good informative responses, guys!

Thanks for sharing your approaches and techniques.

Neat seeing the variety of methods that we can use for add such a cool depth of realism to our varnish, all which are doable by rookie passenger train modelers as well.

Something I'm pondering about.  On some railroads, the handles on the bottoms of the window shades were bare aluminum instead of being made of wood, or covered with the same material as the shade itself. This sometimes varied due to cars being inherited or purchased from other roads, such as the prototype Bird-series unit in the photo here.  (photo credit: Stan Jackowski)

May be a bit tedious, but for this I was thinking about masking off the bottom 1/32" section of the styrene "window shade" and painting it a bright silver.  Of course, silver pinstripe tape that's 1/64" wide would be even better and much easier! Stick out tongue

 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Paul3 on Monday, April 8, 2019 1:09 AM

Antonio,
As gmpullman pointed out, Rapido offers 8600 coach window shades as a PDF print out.  Printing this on high quality paper is much better than regular old 20lb. copy paper (which the light can shine through easily enough).

Each Rapido shade comes with the silver bottom trim line, but please note that every window shade must be cut out individually.  I also glued my shades into my 8600's with Microscale Kristal Klear, and I applied it with a toothpick to the rear of corners of the shade after I placed it behind the window.

Also, please note that the NH's Pullman-Standard cars had window shade external sides in Hunter Green to match the Hunter Green window band.  I don't know how common it was for P-S or Budd to do this, but it was certainly the case with the NH (we have the P-S Book of Specifications that calls this out).  Interestingly enough, the interior side of each shade was gray...and the NH sleepers that were delivered with stainless steel window bands had silver/gray shade exteriors.

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 4:54 AM

Paul, GMPullman,

Thank you.

The Rapido shades look sharp, but the catch is that for SCL (ACL) a white or grayish white color is needed.

Paul3

Antonio,
As gmpullman pointed out, Rapido offers 8600 coach window shades as a PDF print out.  Printing this on high quality paper is much better than regular old 20lb. copy paper (which the light can shine through easily enough).

Each Rapido shade comes with the silver bottom trim line.............

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, May 26, 2019 7:32 PM

Hey guys, just an additional thought and sample to share to modelers that make occasional "boo-boos!".  I could write a book on mine, LOL! Stick out tongue

Look at the window shades on the Walthers Budd car on the left (click on the photo). You'll notice some dark spots on them. I didn't catch them until AFTER I resassembled the car! I broke one of my own rules:  "Before gluing, ALWAYS double-check the surface that will be viewed".  So, I earned a "dunce cap badge". 

Of course, I said "Arrrrgh!" and thought about pulling the shade strip out and starting over as I grunted.

However, as I continued to look at it I realized that it no longer bothered me.  I remembered that in some protoype instances, white and light-colored passenger car shades become discolored and worn with age but weren't replaced immediately (especially in the 1960s' when "attention to detail" was waning and cost cutting was the rule) 

Additionally, car cleaning crews were being gradually cut and so it stands to reason that occasionally a grimey window or two might "slip through".

So I took this as a case of squeezing a few sour lemons into a small glass of lemonade! 

High Greens Big Smile

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:04 PM

AntonioFP45
Of course, I said "Arrrrgh!" and thought about pulling the shade strip out and starting over as I grunted.

Be sure to tell visitors how you meticulously researched "stains and blotches" in order to recreate the exact color and texture represented on the shades Wink

Oh, I recall riding MANY a Penn-Central train with filthy interiors, broken shades, no heat or WAY too much heat. Often there would be a BB hole in the outer glass of the "Thermo-pane" window allowing water to fill the gap between the glazing.

As the train accellerated the water would rise toward the rear of the car and during braking it would slosh the other way. Sort of a "Pullman Inclinometer".

Somehow, with all my 1960s – '70s era passenger trains, I can't lower myself to model them "exactly" the way they ran back then.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Saturday, July 6, 2019 8:33 PM

Hey guys,

just piggy-backlong off of this thread. 

As you can see in the photo, the Walthers car sits higher than the  Rivarossi. That’s due to the spring strips used for the lighting system on Walthers passenger cars.  I’d like to eliminate the springs and utilize a decent alternative for lighting pickups.

I was wondering if Rapido trucks would be a workable replacement?

 

High Greens Big Smile

 

[/quote]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, July 7, 2019 3:58 AM

AntonioFP45
I was wondering if Rapido trucks would be a workable replacement?

Hi, Antonio

I took a look into your question and believe it would not be a very difficult job to modify the car bolster to accept a Rapido passenger truck.

 Rapido-Truck2 by Edmund, on Flickr

I grabbed a generic Budd diner from one of the Walthers earlier runs to use as an example but nearly all the Walther Proto cars will be similar.

The way I would approach the task would be to slip a styrene sleeve over the bolster post then carefully file down just a bit off the post to gain your final height. Then use the original screw, without the brass washer, to secure the truck.

Alternately, you could open the truck bolster hole in the Rapido truck to fit over the bolster pin, then shim, Kadee washer style, but larger diameters, to get your final height.

 Rapido-Truck3 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

I use a small tapered reamer which is ideal for opening truck bolster holes.

https://tinyurl.com/y4dtto4z

 

 Rapido-Truck1 by Edmund, on Flickr

I haven't had many problems with the Walthers method of using the springy plate and the round head screws. Occasionally one of the screws will have a burr which I file smooth.

Here's a close-up of the Rapido truck showing the bronze strip and a peek at the eye for soldering the pickup wire. I would use very flexible decoder wire, maybe 30 ga. and find a spot to feed the wire through the floor without disturbing the weight strips under the floor.

 Rapido-Truck6 by Edmund, on Flickr

I replaced all the original trucks on my Rapido Continental-Line cars with their newer truck with the contacts. I haven't gotten around to wiring them up yet Embarrassed

 Rapido-Truck5 by Edmund, on Flickr

Walthers truck ^^^^

Rapido truck vvvvv

 Rapido-Truck4 by Edmund, on Flickr

Note that the floor of the diner I'm using is sagging a bit as I was in the process of pulling the interior out.

I bought a bundle of six pair of trucks directly from Rapido. Not sure if they're available anywhere in the States but I haven't really looked around for them, either.

Now, about height. Most of the Budds I'm familiar with have a height of 13' 6" from the top of the rail to the top of the roof. That's 1.8621 in HO. I made some random measurements of a dozen or so cars and came up with a pretty close average of 1.866 on the Walthers cars and 1.818 on the Rivarossi cars with 36" wheels.

Hope that helps, Ed

P.S. I saw your question in regards to MTH streamlined cars and we can elaborate on these in another thread in the near future. They are excellent cars on a par with the newer Rapido stuff.

 

 

 

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, July 8, 2019 5:07 PM

Ed,

Thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to reply with so much good, useful information and include photos! I appreciate the measurements regarding “rail to roof” height. It‘s comical that most of my older run Walthers Budd/PS units sit too high while my Rivs sit too low. Only my Rapido passenger Budds sit at the right height. (Thumbs up, Rapido!).

I am a leaning towards your 2nd idea, in carefully reaming out the bolster hole in the Rapido trucks. I will order 2 pairs of the Rapido trucks from either MB.Klein or Walthers and try them out. From my understanding, Rapido passenger car trucks have better rolling qualities than the Walthers.

The lighting contact setup looks sensible! 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
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Posted by Reynold on Monday, July 4, 2022 4:35 AM

The 1940/1946 AAR standard Profile for new stream-lined passenger cars is 13' 6'' to the underside of the roof sheet, not the highest part of the roof. (Reference: Car Builders' Cyclopedia 21st Edition, Simmons-Boardman, page 538)

So depending on the thickness of the metal roof sheeting used, the outside of the roof is a small fraction of an inch higher than 13' 6''. A corrugated roof sheet could be slightly thinner sheet metal material, but the tops of corrugations will be a big fraction of an inch higher.

Of course the load of passengers and baggage and stores and bathroom water will compress the truck springs and lower the car slightly.

Reynold - Puyallup

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