Yeah, well, LION has 10 six car subway trains (ergo 60 cars) All have been heavily modified by said LION and are NOT in pristine condition.
LION had looked in eBay in the past about train prices for said cars and found them over priced, but comprable with MTH subway sets.
Hime sees a LL/Walthers four car set for $300.00 and since no longer in production may be a good price. LION would pay that now if him had to.
But Father Terrence came to my nursing office saturday morning complaing of chest pain, and I said I would call an ambulance, but him said no, he would rest and then see how he felt. He was aty\ all prayers and meals, had some saturday night pop corn in his room. Apparently he also took some Pepto Bismol before going to bed.
On Sunday morning he was dead.
If da LION says ewe knead the ER, ewe knead the ER.
But this leads into the mortality of said LION. If him could get to train room more easily him could play with the trains of him. Said MTH set has not been fully modified for use on the Route of the Broadway LION. But the trains have value. I will have to write a document to my brother monks on how to dispose of these things after I am gone.
The trains all have draw-bars, many have been re-motored, and the are wired for 48 wheel power pick-up. I'd prpbably ask $150. a set for them, after all the monks just want to get rid of them.
LION also has more than 50 tortoise switch machines. Could sell them for $10 each (about what I paid for them way back when) Maybe sell the lot of themn for $300.00.
Then there are hundreds of relays worth about $4. each, sell the lot of them as assorted relays for $100.00
There is little else of value there. Well there are other train sets and locomotives, but those can be sold each or in lots.
But, Once I have this foot surgery out of the way I do want to get up there again and play with my trains.
ROARING
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Autonerd I see some of those stupid deals, and it occurs to me that they must be some kind of a money-laundering scheme. Not that I'd know how to launder money. Hell, I can barely launder my undergarments without turning them pink.
I see some of those stupid deals, and it occurs to me that they must be some kind of a money-laundering scheme. Not that I'd know how to launder money. Hell, I can barely launder my undergarments without turning them pink.
Oh please, money laundering? vast conspiracies by gigantic secret opertives that buy up mechandise and resell as "rare" ? huge world wide operations that are out to change the pricing structure of NOS and after market merchandise? secret operations using Ebay as a "store front"?
It's time to step away from Ebay.........slowly turn away...... and go out in your yard and pick up sticks, or play with the dog, play with the kids, interreact with your spouse? ...... anything, just step away, Ebay will be fine without you.
Mike.
My You Tube
I see some of those stupid deals, and it occurs to me that they must be some kind of a money-laundering scheme. Not that I'd know how to launder money. ****, I can barely launder my undergarments without turning them pink.
If I think an item is overpriced, I don't bid on it. Just that simple.
I'm sure not going to get my dinkie in a twist about it.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Sometimes it is just a mater of timing. I have seen the exact same item sell one week for $30 and the next week for $60 with a starting price close to $1. Just was wating a brass shop engine and one went for $260 and another went for over $400 and they overlaped each other.
A couple of months back a seller on eBay wanted $600 for a brass Alco Models H20-44 (ca. 1978). While it is somewhat uncommon, it's not a very valuable model - i.e. <$200 according to brasstrains.com. On top of that a couple of the stanchions on the rear platform were loose and needed to be resoldered...AND...it didn't even come with a motor.
I contacted the seller, asked him why the excessive high price, and told him I paid $127 for a "working" version of the exact same model - in better condition. He responded and touted his many years of brass selling experience:
"We have been buying and sell model trains for many years before the ebay sales started in the late 1990's and we have found that as long as people have disposable income you will eventually sell your item for whatever you want."
Out of curiousity I put a watch on the item. When the brass H20-44 didn't sell for $600, the price dropped to $300. When $300 didn't bring in the buyers, it was lowered to $250...then $200...then $180.
Since the item was a "Buy It Now/Make An Offer", I offered the seller $125 then $135, which were both immediately rejected. The seller emailed back after a few days and counter-offered with $160. I toyed with the idea of upping my offer "slightly" but decided to sit on it. A day or two later the H20-44 sold for $180.
All I really wanted was the brass shell so it was no biggie that I didn't get the item. I have no doubt that the seller originally wanted to throw a price out there to see if anyone would bite. Guess there was enough savvy buyers on eBay that knew that $600 - even $300 - was a ridiculous asking price for a non-working/slightly damaged model. Guess the seller wasn't able to sell the item for "whatever [he] want[ed]" - at least originally.
Then there are the sellers who - even after years of posting an item for 2 or 3x the going rate - STILL will not drop their asking price. That's a long time to keep inventory around collecting dust. Their problem; not mine...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
"Never assume conspiracy when the problem can be explained by incompetence".
Take a look at the other items listed by this seller. Only two other model railroad items and a whole bunch of clothes and shoes. Makes me think of that "reality" TV show where the buy abandoned storage units.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
The more I think about it, the commercial side of the entire hobby functions largely like the Soviet consumer economy. Fragmented central planning attempts to gauge the market for production, consumers attempt to purchase limited production through the ubiquitous "line" (pre-orders) with some speculation by some line waiters, and a thriving second hand marketplace.
rrebell caldreamer A few of the comments made about ebay ellers and buyers are true. 1. It is not illegal to over price items, but sellets should not try to gouge buyers with such over inflated prices. Guess they have no scruples.. 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years. 3. The buyer who purchases items at thes infated prices are the stupid ones. Its called Capitalism. I can ask any price I want for anything legal to sell. I was going to do the traditional "if you don't like it move tp X communist county" but as I thought about it, I can't think of one, they have all morphed to semi Capilalist, even Cuba.
caldreamer A few of the comments made about ebay ellers and buyers are true. 1. It is not illegal to over price items, but sellets should not try to gouge buyers with such over inflated prices. Guess they have no scruples.. 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years. 3. The buyer who purchases items at thes infated prices are the stupid ones.
A few of the comments made about ebay ellers and buyers are true.
1. It is not illegal to over price items, but sellets should not try to gouge buyers with such over inflated prices. Guess they have no scruples..
2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.
3. The buyer who purchases items at thes infated prices are the stupid ones.
Its called Capitalism. I can ask any price I want for anything legal to sell. I was going to do the traditional "if you don't like it move tp X communist county" but as I thought about it, I can't think of one, they have all morphed to semi Capilalist, even Cuba.
Even a Soviet style economy still had internal market forces and scaling demand and prices.
Without getting into the complexity of the production, sale, and consumption of discretionary retail goods, the scenario of a low pruduction item commanding disproportionate second hand prices was common and behaved largely the same as it did in the West. Worse, in some ways, because it impacted every facet of consumer good through constant production shortages.
SouthgateSometimes a stupid seller can go in your favor. I saw a buy it now price on a 1/25 model JD backhoe (my other scale)pop up in my face while searching, for about 1/2 the usual dogfight price. I couldn't pound keys fast enough!!! but I got it.
Well, this brings up an interesting point. I'm pretty certain that I have never seen anyone on the forum complain that a seller has priced an item too low, nor have I ever heard of any purchaser offering the seller more than the listed price because they didn't want the seller to feel cheated.
For the ignorant buyer, there is always the "sort by price and shipping lowest first option"...
I personally think that for things where the seller doesn't know how much he can get, he can put it at a higher price and lower it without being unfair to anyone. In fact, I do it.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
IRONROOSTER If you read down in the listing, you find that he is selling this as new, never even test run with original box that is in very good condition. It appears that he is selling to the collector market. For that market, new never run with box in the condition in the photo is important and so is worth extra money. The collector market is very different from the used market in terms of value and what is important. I don't see this as excessive for the market he is aiming at. Paul
If you read down in the listing, you find that he is selling this as new, never even test run with original box that is in very good condition.
It appears that he is selling to the collector market. For that market, new never run with box in the condition in the photo is important and so is worth extra money.
The collector market is very different from the used market in terms of value and what is important. I don't see this as excessive for the market he is aiming at.
Paul
My discussion was more theoretical than about the specifics of the particular listing.
Yes, different markets have different demands. The products therein have different attributes that buyers desire.
- Douglas
Sometimes a stupid seller can go in your favor. I saw a buy it now price on a 1/25 model JD backhoe (my other scale)pop up in my face while searching, for about 1/2 the usual dogfight price. I couldn't pound keys fast enough!!! but I got it.
I like BB athearn. An item, "train 6539" was the full extent of the description, and very blurry pictures. (that makes it an Athearn SP GP 35) I could barely make out that it had gray, not black wheels. Took the chance, got it for $5 plus pretty cheap shipping. It was a clean gold motor, brass flywheel, detailed sideframe version. It's currently rolling out ton miles.
Someone put about 15 very precision (coreless motors) quality Minimotor gearheads, 3 namiki planetary gearhead motors and a ton of other stuff not usually associated with model RR in RR cuz there were a few worthless train trinkets in the "junk lot". I stole it for 1/3 what I bid. I've landed other deals too where descriptions are far off accurate, but pictures reveal some gems. Dan
bearman Yup, Rich, that is what a seller can do. Same as in a lot of transactions like buying a car. It all depends on what the seller wants out of the transaction and how badly the buyer wants the item. I am not a huge Ebay customer. Once though, I bought a model structure kit on Ebay for about 30$ over the original manufacturers price. I did some on-line research. The manufacturer had gone out of business and it was not available at any of the usual on-line retail sites. I wanted that structure, so I gulped and paid. It was worth it to me.
Yup, Rich, that is what a seller can do. Same as in a lot of transactions like buying a car. It all depends on what the seller wants out of the transaction and how badly the buyer wants the item. I am not a huge Ebay customer. Once though, I bought a model structure kit on Ebay for about 30$ over the original manufacturers price.
I did some on-line research. The manufacturer had gone out of business and it was not available at any of the usual on-line retail sites. I wanted that structure, so I gulped and paid. It was worth it to me.
But that's a situation where the item is the last one, and you set the market price for a now one-of-a-kind item. Like the little old lady who wont sell out to developers, now her property is worth more because its one of a few left.
I don't think that's the same thing as the item in question which is not the last of its kind and has an established value.
I guess he's just setting a price simply thinking that somebody might have a good reason to buy it at that price. It certainly is strange.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
maxman Doughless If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. If I were on a jury, I would find it hard to believe that anything that happens on ebay regarding setting of a selling price would be considered as predatory. No one is coming into anyone's home, elderly or otherwise, and coercing that individual to purchase anything. There is absolutely no coersion. Why? Because there is a process to be followed in order to make a purchase, including setting up an account and whatever information that entails. Therefore, I consider all ebay bidders to be willing participants. And if they're willing to play the game, they should be willing to learn the rules. And if they are willing to pay $115 for a loco that someone here feels is not worth that much, that is their business, not mine or anyone else's. In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough) In addition, if we make an assumption that someone smart enough to play the game is not a total idiot, all they would have to do is look at the listing for the same item directly below the $115 loco and they'd see a pre-owned model for $78.39 buy it now. And if they looked at previous sales, they'd see the same model sold for $39.51.
Doughless If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal.
If I were on a jury, I would find it hard to believe that anything that happens on ebay regarding setting of a selling price would be considered as predatory. No one is coming into anyone's home, elderly or otherwise, and coercing that individual to purchase anything.
There is absolutely no coersion. Why? Because there is a process to be followed in order to make a purchase, including setting up an account and whatever information that entails. Therefore, I consider all ebay bidders to be willing participants. And if they're willing to play the game, they should be willing to learn the rules. And if they are willing to pay $115 for a loco that someone here feels is not worth that much, that is their business, not mine or anyone else's.
In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough)
In addition, if we make an assumption that someone smart enough to play the game is not a total idiot, all they would have to do is look at the listing for the same item directly below the $115 loco and they'd see a pre-owned model for $78.39 buy it now. And if they looked at previous sales, they'd see the same model sold for $39.51.
My opinion isn't very strong on this. And the best offer does impact things.
I would just like to know the seller's thinking. If he knows the typical market value, why bother pricing it significantly higher to begin with?
What type of person does he expect to buy it?
Same argument could be made for classic cars, auctions like Mecum, Barret Jackson, and the like have driven up the value of all classics especially the more desirable ones, an example of this is my car, I bought a 69 Mustang Coupe roller chassis with body, it has some rust being a Florida car but is in ok shape, it only cost me 500 bucks not counting shipping which was pretty cheap too for a car.
69 Mustang Fastbacks in worse shape than mine (all body panels have substantial rust holes, quarter panels, hood, or decklid are missing, floor plan doesn't exist, frame is bent, the list of problems are usually long enough to make your eyes roll back into you head, point is these cars usually go for a few thousand dollars just because they are fastbacks/sportsroofs, and they get sold for these prices because everyone and their mother has gotten the idea that these cars are automatically worth more because of the additional publicity they get.
Fastbacks have always been more desirable than coupes but the price gap has grown much more for much less of a car due to the promoting the auctions give, it's not predatory to try to sell a rust bucket for 5k, if the seller can manage to get 5k then he's pretty smart, the buyer either is wanting the challenge or is pretty unsmart.
Point is don't pay the crazy prices unless you want to or need to, otherwise who cares how much its listed for.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
maxman In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough)
Rich
Alton Junction
bearmanI do not believe Ebay has any responsibility regarding a high ball asking price. As with a lot of things, Caveat Emptor!
.
Perfectly said.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Ebay is interesting because it appears to be a pure form of capitalism. I want to buy something. I look it up, and if I do not like the price I try to find a better price elsewhere. I want to sell something. I post it and price it and hope I get my price.
As far as I am concerned Ebay's major responsibility in a willing buyer/seller situation is to ensure that a purchased item is as advertised and is shipped to the buyer. I do not believe Ebay has any responsibility regarding a high ball asking price. As with a lot of things, Caveat Emptor!
DoughlessIf the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal.
richg1998 But ebay does keep bored modelers busy in forums. Rich
But ebay does keep bored modelers busy in forums.
Basically.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
DrW Doughless Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession. If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it. Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit. Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example. The last paragraph is important. Payday loans/cash advances with high interest rates can be predatory, as most persons asking for such a loan are in dire need of the money. However, model trains are, at least in the eye of the law, luxury items which do not affect your livelihood. Thus, inflated prices for model railroad items are not predatory. JW
Doughless Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession. If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it. Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit. Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example.
Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession.
If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it.
Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit.
Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example.
The last paragraph is important. Payday loans/cash advances with high interest rates can be predatory, as most persons asking for such a loan are in dire need of the money. However, model trains are, at least in the eye of the law, luxury items which do not affect your livelihood. Thus, inflated prices for model railroad items are not predatory.
JW
How about a brass train dealer, for example? The court determined he has the experience to know, or should have known, the rarity of an item, then lists the item as rare when it is not, could be prosecuted for misrepresentation?
Its an experienced, knowledgeable person using his knowledge and expertise to entice a lesser knowledgeable person into buying something the seller knows is an inflated price.
If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller was when he chose to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it.
gmpullman caldreamer 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years. I really wouldn't want eBay to decide how much is "too much" for an item. Fraud and decption should be investigated but over pricing is something the free market — and educated buyers — should determine. Cheers, Ed
caldreamer 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.
I really wouldn't want eBay to decide how much is "too much" for an item. Fraud and decption should be investigated but over pricing is something the free market — and educated buyers — should determine.
Cheers, Ed
Anyone who does buy it may be the stupid one, not the seller. That said, the eventual buyer, if there is one, may not be stupid at all. Maybe he wants it bad enough that he is willing to pay an above market price.
caldreamer2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.