I have been in N scale since it started in the 1960's and know what locomotives and rolling stock are worth. Just saw on Ebay that a seller is trying to foist a 1970's vinatage Minitrix Santa Fe U30CG off on some unsuspecting buyer or $115. They are great runners, but they are worth abott 25 to 30 dollars. Who ever the seller is, he has a lot of nerve trying this. I hope no one buys this engine. CAVEAT EMPTOR. "Let the buyer beware".
LION wanted a new power supply for the server of him. Actually the server requires three power supplies for redundancy.
Be that as it may I have found these units for sale on E-bay for $15 each up to $2.000 each. Pretty good for an obsolete unit.
I can only assume that the person selling the $2,000 unit was selling it to himself and pocketing the rest of the money from his employer. If the boss went shopping for the unit, him would be in trouble.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Who is stupid, the one selling it overpriced, or the one who does not perform due diligence in researching prices? If the seller does not get the price, he will have to lower it. And if he gets the price...
In some cases a stupid E-Bay Buyer!
Saw 12 Tyco X2F couplers go for $39.95, I think I may have something to get rich on for all the Tyco/Athearn/Bowser X2F's I have accumulated in my throw away box.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Really, are we going to go through this again? Those of us that use Ebay are well aware of what some sellers do.
Just chuckle to yourself and move along.
Mike.
My You Tube
caldreamer I have been in N scale since it started in the 1960's and know what locomotives and rolling stock are worth. Just saw on Ebay that a seller is trying to foist a 1970's vinatage Minitrix Santa Fe U30CG off on some unsuspecting buyer or $115. They are great runners, but they are worth abott 25 to 30 dollars. Who ever the seller is, he has a lot of nerve trying this. I hope no one buys this engine. CAVEAT EMPTOR. "Let the buyer beware".
This kind of thing is modus operandi on Ebay past few years since they went to new re-list policy.
It might help everyones blood pressure if they just train themselves to ignore all the insanely priced items and just scroll past. Otherwise we just keep re-hashing the same thing about Ebay over and over ad-nauseum.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
dti406 In some cases a stupid E-Bay Buyer! Saw 12 Tyco X2F couplers go for $39.95, I think I may have something to get rich on for all the Tyco/Athearn/Bowser X2F's I have accumulated in my throw away box. Rick Jesionowski
Rick,There are collectors of Tyco that may need those couplers to restore a car..
Yes,even today there are those among us that still uses the X2F plus the collectors restoring old cars and locomotives back to their "new" condition.
There's a guy here in the rest home that has a Varney 2-8-0 that looks brand new but,he refurbish the engine to new condition and yes,it has X2F couplers and it runs quite well for its age..He's currently working on a Varney 0-4-0 Lil' Joe. He's 73 and has 20 some engines in display cases.
BTW..He plans to letter the L'il Joe G&D to honor John Allen.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
But ebay does keep bored modelers busy in forums.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The recent ebay sold prices for LL HO Proto GP7's are $35-55. There are plenty for sale on Ebay from $89-100. The sellers must be more patient than I am.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
There is nothing dishonest about this at all. He is not forcing anyone to pay this price.
.
The prices these things go for can vary wildly. When a seller goes to research a price, he might not be able to determine what a fair market value is. He might also want to do his best to get maximum dollars for his items.
It is common to start with a high opening bid. If it does not sell, lower the price.
I have seen the same item listed week after week, each time with the opening bid going down a little until someone bites at the bait.
This is perfectly fair and an acceptable practice in eBay, and in the physical auction worlds.
Nothing to get upset about here... we can all move along.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
A few of the comments made about ebay ellers and buyers are true.
1. It is not illegal to over price items, but sellets should not try to gouge buyers with such over inflated prices. Guess they have no scruples..
2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.
3. The buyer who purchases items at thes infated prices are the stupid ones.
That’s nothing. A few years ago, somebody tried to flog off a “genuine 1966 vintage Athearn SD45“ for something in the neighborhood of $5,000. If your guy’s only asking for a C-note and change for the U30CG, he truly doesn’t know what “vintage” equipment is really worth.
Now, if you’ll please excuse me, I have to go roll around on the floor convulsed in helpless laughter.
Andre
Once in a while I sell a baggie full of hornhook couplers. Some people want to sell their old Athearn blue box cars but want to restore them to original condition by removing their Kadee couplers. Then of course they use the Kadee couplers on their newer cars and save some money.
Empty boxes sell for a lot of money also. I shouldn't have thrown so many away.
Heres another example of a crazy Ebay seller, I often look at cars for sale on Ebay motors, one guy had a newer mustang with the title "2016 ford mustang coyote" at a pretty low price for a V8 mustang, I continue to the description where he states that the car has a EcoBoost V6, which makes sense because only GTs come with V8s, so I send him a message asking why he claims it's a Coyote, he replies "because of the 'coyote' decals on the taillights" I send back that the decals do no more to make the car a "coyote" than the "Decepticon" badge on the fender does to make it a Transformer.
He insisted that the car is indeed a Coyote.
Just to clarify Coyote is the name for the v8s they put in the new mustangs.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
richg1998 But ebay does keep bored modelers busy in forums. Rich
Good one, Rich.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Yea, really. If you get bored with your hobby, maybe you need to do landscape painting, maybe still life, not people, I was never good at people.
Much more satisfying than Ebay trashin'
The same thing happens on Craigs List. Somebody wants to dump a Bachman ho set and thinks an F7 and three cars with a loop is worth more than they paid for it. In one case the guy is asking $600.00. Its more a case that they have no idea of the market and assume all trains are collectable quality and condition. After three years of checking Craigs list locally there has been nothing of quality or priced that I want.
caldreamer2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.
I really wouldn't want eBay to decide how much is "too much" for an item. Fraud and decption should be investigated but over pricing is something the free market — and educated buyers — should determine.
Cheers, Ed
gmpullman caldreamer 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years. I really wouldn't want eBay to decide how much is "too much" for an item. Fraud and decption should be investigated but over pricing is something the free market — and educated buyers — should determine. Cheers, Ed
caldreamer 2. I partly blame ebay because they do not even try to protect buyers by blocking such sales. I have seen may others like this over the years.
Anyone who does buy it may be the stupid one, not the seller. That said, the eventual buyer, if there is one, may not be stupid at all. Maybe he wants it bad enough that he is willing to pay an above market price.
Alton Junction
Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession.
If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller was when he chose to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it.
Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit.
Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example.
- Douglas
Doughless Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession. If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it. Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit. Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example.
If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it.
The last paragraph is important. Payday loans/cash advances with high interest rates can be predatory, as most persons asking for such a loan are in dire need of the money. However, model trains are, at least in the eye of the law, luxury items which do not affect your livelihood. Thus, inflated prices for model railroad items are not predatory.
JW
DrW Doughless Just my two cents. All opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with consumer law in my profession. If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. Sure its seems legal, on the surface, but you'd have to determine what the attitude of the seller is when he chooses to list something. If its an organized, chartered, and licensed business that engages in commerce targeting the ignorant frequently, it could in fact be illegal. Hard to prove, but it could be punishable if you could prove it. Maybe not as much with model trains, but product and services of a technical nature, where pretty much every customer is ignorant relative to the level of knowledge needed to truly understand the product, preditory practices are discovered quite a bit. Think of home improvement service companies that target elderly widows, as an example. The last paragraph is important. Payday loans/cash advances with high interest rates can be predatory, as most persons asking for such a loan are in dire need of the money. However, model trains are, at least in the eye of the law, luxury items which do not affect your livelihood. Thus, inflated prices for model railroad items are not predatory. JW
How about a brass train dealer, for example? The court determined he has the experience to know, or should have known, the rarity of an item, then lists the item as rare when it is not, could be prosecuted for misrepresentation?
Its an experienced, knowledgeable person using his knowledge and expertise to entice a lesser knowledgeable person into buying something the seller knows is an inflated price.
Basically.
DoughlessIf the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal.
If I were on a jury, I would find it hard to believe that anything that happens on ebay regarding setting of a selling price would be considered as predatory. No one is coming into anyone's home, elderly or otherwise, and coercing that individual to purchase anything.
There is absolutely no coersion. Why? Because there is a process to be followed in order to make a purchase, including setting up an account and whatever information that entails. Therefore, I consider all ebay bidders to be willing participants. And if they're willing to play the game, they should be willing to learn the rules. And if they are willing to pay $115 for a loco that someone here feels is not worth that much, that is their business, not mine or anyone else's.
In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough)
In addition, if we make an assumption that someone smart enough to play the game is not a total idiot, all they would have to do is look at the listing for the same item directly below the $115 loco and they'd see a pre-owned model for $78.39 buy it now. And if they looked at previous sales, they'd see the same model sold for $39.51.
Ebay is interesting because it appears to be a pure form of capitalism. I want to buy something. I look it up, and if I do not like the price I try to find a better price elsewhere. I want to sell something. I post it and price it and hope I get my price.
As far as I am concerned Ebay's major responsibility in a willing buyer/seller situation is to ensure that a purchased item is as advertised and is shipped to the buyer. I do not believe Ebay has any responsibility regarding a high ball asking price. As with a lot of things, Caveat Emptor!
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearmanI do not believe Ebay has any responsibility regarding a high ball asking price. As with a lot of things, Caveat Emptor!
Perfectly said.
maxman In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough)
Same argument could be made for classic cars, auctions like Mecum, Barret Jackson, and the like have driven up the value of all classics especially the more desirable ones, an example of this is my car, I bought a 69 Mustang Coupe roller chassis with body, it has some rust being a Florida car but is in ok shape, it only cost me 500 bucks not counting shipping which was pretty cheap too for a car.
69 Mustang Fastbacks in worse shape than mine (all body panels have substantial rust holes, quarter panels, hood, or decklid are missing, floor plan doesn't exist, frame is bent, the list of problems are usually long enough to make your eyes roll back into you head, point is these cars usually go for a few thousand dollars just because they are fastbacks/sportsroofs, and they get sold for these prices because everyone and their mother has gotten the idea that these cars are automatically worth more because of the additional publicity they get.
Fastbacks have always been more desirable than coupes but the price gap has grown much more for much less of a car due to the promoting the auctions give, it's not predatory to try to sell a rust bucket for 5k, if the seller can manage to get 5k then he's pretty smart, the buyer either is wanting the challenge or is pretty unsmart.
Point is don't pay the crazy prices unless you want to or need to, otherwise who cares how much its listed for.
maxman Doughless If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal. If I were on a jury, I would find it hard to believe that anything that happens on ebay regarding setting of a selling price would be considered as predatory. No one is coming into anyone's home, elderly or otherwise, and coercing that individual to purchase anything. There is absolutely no coersion. Why? Because there is a process to be followed in order to make a purchase, including setting up an account and whatever information that entails. Therefore, I consider all ebay bidders to be willing participants. And if they're willing to play the game, they should be willing to learn the rules. And if they are willing to pay $115 for a loco that someone here feels is not worth that much, that is their business, not mine or anyone else's. In this particular case, the individual listed that loco at $115 or best offer. It is not buy it now, minimum bid, or anything else. So I presume that if one thinks that thing is only worth $20, go ahead and make an offer. (I do admit that I don't know what ebay's rules are for enforcing the best offer bid if the seller doesn't happen to think the best offer is "best" enough) In addition, if we make an assumption that someone smart enough to play the game is not a total idiot, all they would have to do is look at the listing for the same item directly below the $115 loco and they'd see a pre-owned model for $78.39 buy it now. And if they looked at previous sales, they'd see the same model sold for $39.51.
Doughless If the seller knows what the typical item sells for, and significantly overprices it in hopes of finding an ignorant buyer, then there is a bit of a preditory aspect to the deal.
My opinion isn't very strong on this. And the best offer does impact things.
I would just like to know the seller's thinking. If he knows the typical market value, why bother pricing it significantly higher to begin with?
What type of person does he expect to buy it?
Yup, Rich, that is what a seller can do. Same as in a lot of transactions like buying a car. It all depends on what the seller wants out of the transaction and how badly the buyer wants the item. I am not a huge Ebay customer. Once though, I bought a model structure kit on Ebay for about 30$ over the original manufacturers price.
I did some on-line research. The manufacturer had gone out of business and it was not available at any of the usual on-line retail sites. I wanted that structure, so I gulped and paid. It was worth it to me.