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Walthers Cornerstone Arched Pratt Truss Bridge

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:17 PM

richhotrain
Regarding the holes in the end braces for the cables, can you elaborate on that point a little more. I'm not sure that I understand your point. Rich

Rich,

Look at the top of the end of the bridge in the pic', there are three holes in the top end piece for the cables that lift the bridge. If You drilled them before gluing the end pieces on it will be easier to  have both sides the same by using one as a template for the other side. Plus there will be less stress on them when pressing down on the bit to drill the holes. The holes in the CMR bridge were already in the end pieces:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 6:13 PM

zstripe

Drill the holes in the end braces for the cables before attaching/gluing to ends......will make Your day so much easier. Also if You are going to run wires for power to a center shack, drill those holes now also, to accept a conduit for them, before adding any lattice bracing. I used 1/8'' brass tube.

Frank, I don't plan to make the bridge operational, nor do I intend to provide any form of lighting. So, the conduit won't be necessary, but I do appreciate the tip.

Regarding the holes in the end braces for the cables, can you elaborate on that point a little more. I'm not sure that I understand your point.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, March 28, 2019 4:42 PM

Rich,

I'll answer Your other questions later.......But I want to point out.....Drill the holes in the end braces for the cables before attaching/gluing to ends......will make Your day so much easier. Also if You are going to run wires for power to a center shack, drill those holes now also, to accept a conduit for them, before adding any lattice bracing. I used 1/8'' brass tube.

Click on pic' for larger view and you can see the brass tube going through the deck girders.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 4:19 PM

Glued the truss sides to the girder assembly. Ready to attach the lacings and the top bracings.

Rich

P1010820.jpg

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:36 AM

zstripe

PS: Finished one of the ship cranes yesterday.......what a challenge!

Frank, you are doing some beautiful work on the ship, and there are direct parallels between building a battleship and building a bridge. They both involve intricacies and precision.
 
Which raises a question in my mind about model building in general.  I am somewhat frustrated by two model building issues: glue smudges and structural gaps. I am curious if you struggle with the same two issues.
 
How do you avoid the appearance of glue where it shouldn't be, and how do you avoid structural gaps while striving for the perfect fit?
 
Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:26 AM

zstripe

Rich,

Trust Me again.....1'' would be fine for 8. Remember, that there are 4 cables for each set of sheaves, which consist of four sheaves in each set of 8. One sheave holds one cable. The sheaves closest to the main span, are the motorized ones, the ones holding the counter-weight are idlers for a 8 pulley system. That's going to add up in cost....so be prepared. The CMR bridge uses 3 cable sheaves and only 4 sets, no idler sets. The CMR used 0.032'' Teflon coated music wire for the cables. The teflon coating made it easier to glue to the sheaves,bridge,counter-weght.

Frank

Frank, I do trust your judgement on this entire matter, and I do plan to use the 1" sheaves on the top of the towers.

Although I am working in HO scale, I have to take into account that my entire vertical lift bridge project will be scaled smaller than the prototype equivalent.

For example, the prototype truss span would be 37.6245" in HO scale, but the bridge as I am kitbashing it will be 29.50". That translates to 78.4% of the prototype. So, a 2" sheave would scale down to a little more than a 1.5" diameter sheave. I will settle for 1" and purchase the Tichy sheaves.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:14 AM

mbinsewi

I know Wayne asked this once, but are you going to build the towers at the 47 degree angle, to the river?

No, the project is complicated enough without skewing the bridge or towers.

On the prototype, the South Branch of the Chicago River runs on a soutwest-northeast angle, whereas the Pennsylvania Railroad tracks (double mainline) cross the river on a due north-south line. Not being an engineer, I am not sure why the bridge and towers were skewed, but they were in order to follow the banks of the river.

On my layout, I am designing the river and the bridge to run exactly perpendicular to each other. This does not trouble me because my layout does not exactly replicate the prototype. The layout closely simulates the prototype, but it is not an exact replica.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:53 AM

Rich,

Trust Me again.....1'' would be fine for 8. Remember, that there are 4 cables for each set of sheaves, which consist of four sheaves in each set of 8. One sheave holds one cable. The sheaves closest to the main span, are the motorized ones, the ones holding the counter-weight are idlers for a 8 pulley system. That's going to add up in cost....so be prepared. The CMR bridge uses 3 cable sheaves and only 4 sets, no idler sets. The CMR used 0.032'' Teflon coated music wire for the cables. The teflon coating made it easier to glue to the sheaves,bridge,counter-weght.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

PS: Finished one of the ship cranes yesterday.......what a challenge!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, March 28, 2019 6:54 AM

I know Wayne asked this once, but are you going to build the towers at the 47 degree angle, to the river?

I love old construction pictures.  I don't see any copyright problems with this one.

Those are some huge sheaves.

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2019 6:41 AM

zstripe

When You are ready to do the hoist platforms and are looking for pulley's (sheaves) Tichy just came out with some interesting ones that should work. The CMR bridge has 7/8'' size for referance

I dug a little deeper into the statistics associated with the PRR vertical lift bridge in downtown Chicago.  There are eight sheaves at the tops of those two towers, each sheave measuring 15' in diameter. So, that is just over 2" in HO scale.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 7:36 PM

zstripe

When You are ready to do the hoist platforms and are looking for pulley's (sheaves) Tichy just came out with some interesting ones that should work. Look for them in this link I'll post. Keep link for future use. The CMR bridge has 7/8'' size for referance:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/WhatsNew.aspx

Frank, thanks so much for that link. I really appreciate it.

I have been collecting parts in anticipation of building the towers. Finding sheaves has been a problem. I have discovered Crow River Products which manufactures sheaves, so that is an alternative, but I really like the Tichy offerings.

Thanks again for the link.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 4:07 PM

Rich,

Looks good.....now You are doing some constructive thinking!

BTW: When You are ready to do the hoist platforms and are looking for pulley's (sheaves) Tichy just came out with some interesting ones that should work. Look for them in this link I'll post. Keep link for future use. The CMR bridge has 7/8'' size for referance:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/WhatsNew.aspx

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:35 AM

richhotrain
 
zstripe 
richhotrain
What I fail to understand though is why the kit was designed with that 60/40 arrangement. That complicates the insertion of additional center sections. So, I need to further analyze how to pull this off. I invite all comments and suggestions in this regard. 

Rich,

Like I said in My PM.......The X sections are the main vertical stress part of the bridge. The 60/40 arrangement was to offset the stress on the X sections where the girders would meet, instead of having them directly over a joint, like in a hinge. Sort of like a reversing section on track where they tell you to stagger the joints......not directly across from one another.

What You would do, is add an X section to bridge part 4 and 2 or two X section per part. Then You would reinforce the bottom deck with full length I- beams for the deck as I also suggested in My PM. Don't over think this.....It's not that hard.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank  

Frank, thanks for that reply. As you know, I overthink everything. Laugh 

I had considered what you pointed out about stress on the x-sections. That would certainly be true on a real bridge, but stress on an HO scale model???  Huh?

Rich 

I got to thinking more about Frank's comments on stress, and it became more apparent when I began to modify the system of girders. I needed to add some 6.5" sections to the original kit version since I am lengthening the bridge. So, I staggered all of the girders to spread the force away from the middle. Here is my modified 30" length.

Rich

P1010817.jpg

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:49 AM

richhotrain

 

 
zstripe

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank 

 

 

Thanks, Frank. Your CMR vertical lift bridge is my inspiration for this project.

 

Rich

 

Rich,

Trust Me! Building that vertical lift bridge, was a cake walk, compared to building the fine detail on My ship....especially in the size of the parts in the etched brass detail:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 10:37 PM

Track fiddler

Again.... Factory. 

That Pratt Bridge has your signature written all over it Rich.  I like itYes

TF 

Thanks, TF, I am glad that you are enjoying this project. It is challenging, yet rewarding, to build this bridge.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 10:35 PM

zstripe

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank 

Thanks, Frank. Your CMR vertical lift bridge is my inspiration for this project.

Rich

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Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:30 PM

Again.... Factory. 

That Pratt Bridge has your signature written all over it Rich.  I like itYes

TF

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:22 PM

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 5:32 AM

I completed the modification of the four box ends to the bridge. Here is a photo of the completed truss side.

P1010801.jpg

Here is a close up view of the boxed end. 

P1010803.jpg

I am pretty pleased with the result. Now, i need to move on and complete the installation of the top and bottom chords, the vertical and diagonal lacings, and then start construction of the expanded girders that support the truss sides and tracks.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 4:28 PM

mbinsewi
 
richhotrain
I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge 

Nice work Rich.  I can see it now...........

" Ladies and gentleman, before you stands a brilliant example of bridge design from the famous engineering father-son team of Caleb Pratt, and his son, Thomas Willis Pratt. I might point out, that a footnote in history gives Thomas Pratt's often rebellious and unrully step child, Rich, credit for the "squared off" end design, allowing for the main span to be incorporated into the vertical lift bridge that stands before you."

Mike.   

LOL.  That sums it up quite well, Mike. An unruly stepchild, I am. I blame it all on Grandpa Caleb. He was always rough housing with me.

Rich Pratt

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:28 AM

richhotrain
I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge

Nice work Rich.  I can see it now...........

" Ladies and gentleman, before you stands a brilliant example of bridge design from the famous engineering father-son team of Caleb Pratt, and his son, Thomas Willis Pratt. I might point out, that a footnote in history gives Thomas Pratt's often rebellious and unrully step child, Rich, credit for the "squared off" end design, allowing for the main span to be incorporated into the vertical lift bridge that stands before you."

Mike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:03 AM

Track fiddler
  

What an accomplishment!  Your bridge section looks Factory.  You should be proud.  You have succeeded in an area where I threw in the towel.

The Webster dictionary should be changed.  When one looks up the definition of perseverance,  It should read:   Rich's Pratt Truss Bridge modificationYes

TF 

Thanks, TF, I appreciate your kind words. 

Speaking of Webster's Dictionary, I was looking at the various types of Pratt bridges on line, and I was surprised at the number of variations and the names assigned to them. I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge once I box the end sections.

Here is the end section of the Arched Pratt Truss bridge, as Walthers designed it.

I need to form a box on the end sections in order to provide a top horizontal surface to connect the tower cables. Here is what I am going for.

This is going to require some cutting and sawing and fitting to pull this off.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 9:56 AM

zstripe

Looks good so far Richie........Yes

Back to My ship......

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank 

Thanks, Frank. I'm looking forward to some pics of that ship when you finish it.

Rich

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, March 23, 2019 8:28 AM

richhotrain

I successfully completed the addition of the third center x-braced section on both sides of the truss bridge, as seen in the following photos.

P1010800.jpg

What an accomplishment!  Your bridge section looks Factory.  You should be proud.  You have succeeded in an area where I threw in the towel.

The Webster dictionary should be changed.  When one looks up the definition of perseverance,  It should read:   Rich's Pratt Truss Bridge modificationYes

TF

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 23, 2019 6:56 AM

Looks good so far Richie........Yes

Back to My ship......

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 22, 2019 8:02 PM

I successfully completed the addition of the third center x-braced section on both sides of the truss bridge, as seen in the following photos.

P1010800.jpg

 

P1010799.jpg

Now, I need to tackle one more aspect of the bridge to conform it to the shape of a vertical lift bridge. That will require modifying the angled ends of the sides to box shapes to accommodate the tower cables that lift the bridge.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 22, 2019 5:40 AM

BigDaddy

I was going to suggest modifying it to a Baltimore Truss.  I could find a really good picture on bridgehunter.com.

There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

 

While truss bridges can have detailed and complex structures, I am sure that the angle at which this photo was taken lends to the feeling that the amount of iron work is overwhelming.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:15 PM

BigDaddy
There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

THIS was always one of the bridges I found to be fascinating. A bridge within a bridge:

http://www.trainmaster.ch/Z-425.htm

https://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/033937/HO-OMI-GN-BN-BNSF-416-foot-Bridge-in-a-Bridge-WOW

 

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:55 PM

I was going to suggest modifying it to a Baltimore Truss.  I could find a really good picture on bridgehunter.com.

There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

Henry

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:24 PM

Cut the x-braced sections from the 2nd kit. Now. to glue them in place.

Rich

P1010795.jpg

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