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Walthers Cornerstone Arched Pratt Truss Bridge

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:08 PM

mbinsewi

I've been watching, could you alternate the sides, using the X pieces, to get the overall length the same?  trying different combinations of X peices butted, one from one side, and one from the other side, to get the length?

Is scratch building the piece an option? instead of buying another kit?

Mike.

 

That is a very good question, Mike. Let me study this a bit more to see if if is feasible to build a center x-braced section to provide the additional length that I need along the truss span. I had not thought of that as a solution.

Rich

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:09 PM

Rich.    After seeing your photos, now I understand.  It is possible to achieve what you are trying to do without buying another kit but it's going to take some time and patience.  If your time is valuable the third kit might be the way to go.

Store bought styrene does work with bridge kits if you need to lengthen anyting,  I've done that.  When I was trying to kitbash, it was turning a Warren truss Bridge into a Pratt Bridge from kits because it was the right size.  I needed a Camelback Pratt for the center section of a three-section series bridge. The problem was the gusset plates being different sizes that become a big problem. These two truss sections are the same sections,  the one is just modified.  I was 90% there but I said screw it because I had five more to do.

At least I see what you're trying to do now.  Honestly I would have to agree with Wayne.  Save yourself a big headache and buy the third bridge.  You will thank yourselfYes

I foresee you still have a challenge but you can do it.  You may want to run a steel rod under your tracks when you get the bridge done.  Those HO loco's sure are heavier than the N ones.

TF

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:46 PM

TF, thanks for that advice and, by the way, very nice job on that bridge in the photo.

Yeah, I think that the 3rd bridge is the way to go because it is going to be difficult to scratch build the additional center section(s).

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 9:15 PM

OK, so just to clear this up in my own little mind, the X pieces are the same size, so with the second kit, you 2 more X pieces, for a total 4, but you want to make the span longer yet, so you need a total of 6, X pieces, 3 for each side?

I think I musunderstood you as saying the X pieces weren't the same size, is why I suggested the mix-n-match.

The bridge you want to build, is like Frank's?  Do you scratch build the towers, or are they from another kit?

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 9:57 PM

mbinsewi

OK, so just to clear this up in my own little mind, the X pieces are the same size, so with the second kit, you 2 more X pieces, for a total 4, but you want to make the span longer yet, so you need a total of 6, X pieces, 3 for each side?

I have spent a good part of the day studying the various parts of the bridge, making measurements, and preparing drawings. What complicates this bridge, particularly because I want to lengthen it, is the fact that the sides of the truss span are a 60/40 arrangement.

Each side of the truss span consists of four pieces, a left side and a right side outer section and a left side and a right side inner section. The left side outer section is mated to the left side inner section, but these mated sections are different lengths. Same for the mated right side sections.

The center x-braced outer and inner sections are the same overall size, but unlike the other other sections of the truss span, the vertical ends of the center x-braced section are not the same width. One end is narrower in width than the other end. So, when the outer and inner sections are mated, the narrow end of the one section is mated with the wide end of the other section, and the wide end of that section is mated with the narrow end of that section.

Whew, that is a mouthful. It is all the fault of the 60/40 arrangement.

mbinsewi

I think I musunderstood you as saying the X pieces weren't the same size, is why I suggested the mix-n-match.

Well, as I just explained, dimensionally they are the same size, but because the vertical ends of the x-braced center section are different widths, when the outer and inner sides are mated, the mated ends are different widths.

mbinsewi
 The bridge you want to build, is like Frank's?  Do you scratch build the towers, or are they from another kit?

Frank built the CMR vertical lift bridge which is an even better match for my prototype than the Walthers arched Pratt truss bridge. But I chose to use the Walthers bridge because it is styrene as opposed to the CMR bridge which is acrylic. More importantly, the CMR bridge uses angled towers whereas my prototype uses vertical towers. So, I will have to scratch build the towers. I will probably use Central Valley heavy laced girder kits for that part of the project.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 7:44 AM

Thanks Rich for taking the time to explain, again!  I'll have to look at the instructions again, just for my mind.  It's crazy that each side is two pieces, being an inner and outer.

Keep us posted, and lets us follow along! 

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 4:21 PM

mbinsewi

Thanks Rich for taking the time to explain, again!  I'll have to look at the instructions again, just for my mind.  It's crazy that each side is two pieces, being an inner and outer.

It's not unusual for Walthers to design railroad bridges with inner and outer sections, but it is unusual to design a 60/40 arrangement. Any other Walthers railroad bridge that I have built was a 50/50 arrangement where the inner and outer sections mated exactly with no overlaps.

The photo below shows the 8 sections required to complete both sides of the arched Pratt truss bridge.

P1010794.jpg

The photo below shows the 4 mated sections required to complete both sides of the arched Pratt truss bridge.

P1010792.jpg

The photo below shows the 2 completed sides of the arched Pratt truss bridge.

P1010793.jpg

Now, I need to add the two additional center x-braced sections to lengthen the bridge to 30" from the original 23".

Rich

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 6:38 PM

richhotrain
....I need to add the two additional center x-braced sections....

And when you do, you can file the vertical members, where necessary, to keep them all the same thickness, or, where they're too thin, add appropriate strip styrene as a filler between the mating kit pieces.

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:53 PM

doctorwayne
 
richhotrain
....I need to add the two additional center x-braced sections.... 

And when you do, you can file the vertical members, where necessary, to keep them all the same thickness, or, where they're too thin, add appropriate strip styrene as a filler between the mating kit pieces.

Wayne 

Wayne, all of the vertical members will be the same thickness. Are you speaking of the width of the vertical members?

Rich

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 10:00 PM

That's even better, Rich.  In the last photo, the joints between the two sections looked a little thinner, although I do realise that they're not yet cemented together.

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 10:09 PM

doctorwayne

That's even better, Rich.  In the last photo, the joints between the two sections looked a little thinner, although I do realise that they're not yet cemented together.

Wayne 

ahh, you did mean width. After I posted my previous reply of one sentence, I added that second sentence with my question about width. Then, I saw that you had added this reply.  Yes, I believe that once the pieces are all glued together, the widths of all the vertical members will be consistent. I need to go back and look at the unmodified sections. I believe that all of the widths are equal, but let me be sure.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 10:22 PM

OK, I don't own a caliper, but it does appear that all of the vertical members are the same width at 3/16". So, I see your point, Wayne. I need to cut and trim the vertical ends of those additional x-braced sections so that they have the same resulting width as the unmodified vertical members. I believe that my plan for cutting and trimming these additional sections will result in identical widths.  But, we shall see.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:24 PM

Cut the x-braced sections from the 2nd kit. Now. to glue them in place.

Rich

P1010795.jpg

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:55 PM

I was going to suggest modifying it to a Baltimore Truss.  I could find a really good picture on bridgehunter.com.

There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

Henry

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:15 PM

BigDaddy
There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

THIS was always one of the bridges I found to be fascinating. A bridge within a bridge:

http://www.trainmaster.ch/Z-425.htm

https://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/033937/HO-OMI-GN-BN-BNSF-416-foot-Bridge-in-a-Bridge-WOW

 

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 22, 2019 5:40 AM

BigDaddy

I was going to suggest modifying it to a Baltimore Truss.  I could find a really good picture on bridgehunter.com.

There is so much iron work here, I don't know what I'm looking at

 

While truss bridges can have detailed and complex structures, I am sure that the angle at which this photo was taken lends to the feeling that the amount of iron work is overwhelming.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 22, 2019 8:02 PM

I successfully completed the addition of the third center x-braced section on both sides of the truss bridge, as seen in the following photos.

P1010800.jpg

 

P1010799.jpg

Now, I need to tackle one more aspect of the bridge to conform it to the shape of a vertical lift bridge. That will require modifying the angled ends of the sides to box shapes to accommodate the tower cables that lift the bridge.

Rich

 

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 23, 2019 6:56 AM

Looks good so far Richie........Yes

Back to My ship......

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, March 23, 2019 8:28 AM

richhotrain

I successfully completed the addition of the third center x-braced section on both sides of the truss bridge, as seen in the following photos.

P1010800.jpg

What an accomplishment!  Your bridge section looks Factory.  You should be proud.  You have succeeded in an area where I threw in the towel.

The Webster dictionary should be changed.  When one looks up the definition of perseverance,  It should read:   Rich's Pratt Truss Bridge modificationYes

TF

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 9:56 AM

zstripe

Looks good so far Richie........Yes

Back to My ship......

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank 

Thanks, Frank. I'm looking forward to some pics of that ship when you finish it.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:03 AM

Track fiddler
  

What an accomplishment!  Your bridge section looks Factory.  You should be proud.  You have succeeded in an area where I threw in the towel.

The Webster dictionary should be changed.  When one looks up the definition of perseverance,  It should read:   Rich's Pratt Truss Bridge modificationYes

TF 

Thanks, TF, I appreciate your kind words. 

Speaking of Webster's Dictionary, I was looking at the various types of Pratt bridges on line, and I was surprised at the number of variations and the names assigned to them. I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge once I box the end sections.

Here is the end section of the Arched Pratt Truss bridge, as Walthers designed it.

I need to form a box on the end sections in order to provide a top horizontal surface to connect the tower cables. Here is what I am going for.

This is going to require some cutting and sawing and fitting to pull this off.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:28 AM

richhotrain
I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge

Nice work Rich.  I can see it now...........

" Ladies and gentleman, before you stands a brilliant example of bridge design from the famous engineering father-son team of Caleb Pratt, and his son, Thomas Willis Pratt. I might point out, that a footnote in history gives Thomas Pratt's often rebellious and unrully step child, Rich, credit for the "squared off" end design, allowing for the main span to be incorporated into the vertical lift bridge that stands before you."

Mike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 23, 2019 4:28 PM

mbinsewi
 
richhotrain
I had actually considered naming my variation as the Arched Rich Pratt Truss bridge 

Nice work Rich.  I can see it now...........

" Ladies and gentleman, before you stands a brilliant example of bridge design from the famous engineering father-son team of Caleb Pratt, and his son, Thomas Willis Pratt. I might point out, that a footnote in history gives Thomas Pratt's often rebellious and unrully step child, Rich, credit for the "squared off" end design, allowing for the main span to be incorporated into the vertical lift bridge that stands before you."

Mike.   

LOL.  That sums it up quite well, Mike. An unruly stepchild, I am. I blame it all on Grandpa Caleb. He was always rough housing with me.

Rich Pratt

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 5:32 AM

I completed the modification of the four box ends to the bridge. Here is a photo of the completed truss side.

P1010801.jpg

Here is a close up view of the boxed end. 

P1010803.jpg

I am pretty pleased with the result. Now, i need to move on and complete the installation of the top and bottom chords, the vertical and diagonal lacings, and then start construction of the expanded girders that support the truss sides and tracks.

Rich

 

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:22 PM

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank

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Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:30 PM

Again.... Factory. 

That Pratt Bridge has your signature written all over it Rich.  I like itYes

TF

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 10:35 PM

zstripe

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank 

Thanks, Frank. Your CMR vertical lift bridge is my inspiration for this project.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 25, 2019 10:37 PM

Track fiddler

Again.... Factory. 

That Pratt Bridge has your signature written all over it Rich.  I like itYes

TF 

Thanks, TF, I am glad that you are enjoying this project. It is challenging, yet rewarding, to build this bridge.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:49 AM

richhotrain

 

 
zstripe

You are doing a fine job, Rich......Yes Yes Yes

Take Your time......

Frank 

 

 

Thanks, Frank. Your CMR vertical lift bridge is my inspiration for this project.

 

Rich

 

Rich,

Trust Me! Building that vertical lift bridge, was a cake walk, compared to building the fine detail on My ship....especially in the size of the parts in the etched brass detail:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:35 AM

richhotrain
 
zstripe 
richhotrain
What I fail to understand though is why the kit was designed with that 60/40 arrangement. That complicates the insertion of additional center sections. So, I need to further analyze how to pull this off. I invite all comments and suggestions in this regard. 

Rich,

Like I said in My PM.......The X sections are the main vertical stress part of the bridge. The 60/40 arrangement was to offset the stress on the X sections where the girders would meet, instead of having them directly over a joint, like in a hinge. Sort of like a reversing section on track where they tell you to stagger the joints......not directly across from one another.

What You would do, is add an X section to bridge part 4 and 2 or two X section per part. Then You would reinforce the bottom deck with full length I- beams for the deck as I also suggested in My PM. Don't over think this.....It's not that hard.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank  

Frank, thanks for that reply. As you know, I overthink everything. Laugh 

I had considered what you pointed out about stress on the x-sections. That would certainly be true on a real bridge, but stress on an HO scale model???  Huh?

Rich 

I got to thinking more about Frank's comments on stress, and it became more apparent when I began to modify the system of girders. I needed to add some 6.5" sections to the original kit version since I am lengthening the bridge. So, I staggered all of the girders to spread the force away from the middle. Here is my modified 30" length.

Rich

P1010817.jpg

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