richhotrainExisting manufacturers like Atlas, Athearn, BLI and others are simply serving an existing market of old men like you and me with lots of dollars to spend.
Rich,If the hobby was in dire straights would the owners of these new companies risk their livelyhood on a bunch of old men? I know I wouldn't risk it.
You underesitmate today's young modelers and there are thousands out there. The ones I have talked to fully believes less is best until they settle in their profession after they complete their education.These young lads perfer DCC/Sound over old fashion DC.
Get out there among them at trackside and at clubs that allows junior members. Go to Facebook and look up some of the model railroad groups.
Take HO cab rides on display layouts on you tube and notice the young faces.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE richhotrain JWhite The hobby isn't dying. It's growing exponentially. LOL You were doing OK, Jeff, until you reached this point. It is frowned upon on the forum to say that the hobby is dying, so I won't. But growing...exponentially? I don't think so. Rich LOL You don't get around much or watch you tube? Ever notice the new companies that has excellent models? That's a good sign the hobby is still healthy. Ever notice there's monthly annoucements of new models?
richhotrain JWhite The hobby isn't dying. It's growing exponentially. LOL You were doing OK, Jeff, until you reached this point. It is frowned upon on the forum to say that the hobby is dying, so I won't. But growing...exponentially? I don't think so. Rich
JWhite The hobby isn't dying. It's growing exponentially.
The hobby isn't dying. It's growing exponentially.
LOL
You were doing OK, Jeff, until you reached this point. It is frowned upon on the forum to say that the hobby is dying, so I won't. But growing...exponentially? I don't think so.
Rich
LOL You don't get around much or watch you tube?
Ever notice the new companies that has excellent models? That's a good sign the hobby is still healthy.
Ever notice there's monthly annoucements of new models?
Larry, there is a distinct difference between companies producing new models and statements like "the hobby is growing exponentially".
Existing manufacturers like Atlas, Athearn, BLI and others are simply serving an existing market of old men like you and me with lots of dollars to spend. I see no evidence that the hobby is growing, let alone exponentially.
Alton Junction
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
Rich,
i think it is growing exponentially. When I got back into the hobby in 2007 I was amazed by the advances. And look at where we’ve come in those short 12 years. Off the shelf locomotives and even some cars prototypically correct. All of the changes in electronics and the way we can run our trains now, Static grass, foilage mats, 3D printing, laser cutting....it goes on and on.
i try to attend the St Louis Protyoe Modelers Meet every year. Attendance keeps growing.
I’m going to stand by my comment.
jeff
JWhiteMy point is, I don't understand why so many of you think that you aren't a model railroader if you didn't do it continually since you were a child.
All good points Jeff, but I don't think anyone in here thinks that. I was away, not interested, working, busy, whatever you want to call it, for over 40 years.
Then I bought a train set for my 4 year old son, 1988. Together we built a 4'x8', he moved on to other things, I stayed with it for about 6 years, built 2 different plywood centrals, then it all got torn down and packed away.
2000 my daughter got me a Hawthorn Village theme train set, and it started all over again, and continues.
So a good chunk of my life was without trains, and no one in my family, all three sides (mom remarried) ever was into trains. Just me.
Mike.
My You Tube
I started with a 3 rail O scale layout when I was about 3. It's one of my earliest memories. My father and grandfather mounted the tracks on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, painted it bright green with a grid of grey roads (also painted). I remember when had to pack the train up when my younger brother was born to make room.
I got into HO abouit the age of 12 and was attempting to build a layout in the attic. I graduated high school in 1974 and joined the Army. I never thought about model railroading any more then occasionally looking at a book or magazine until I retired from my second career in law enforcement in 2007. So I was away from the hobby for 33 years.
My point is, I don't understand why so many of you think that you aren't a model railroader if you didn't do it continually since you were a child. Here and on other forums you read intorductory posts all the time by modelers who had an interest as a child and are only getting back into the hobby as time and funds are freed up.
The hobby isn't dying. It's growing exponentially. There are things available to us now that we only dreamed about 40 years ago.
My wife's grandfather was an S gauge model railroader. My wife and I often wonder about comment on what he would think of the hobby today.
As for hiding your hobby when you were young or even now so no one makes fun of you......That's silly. No one made fun of me for that whjen I was a teenager. And Im not shy about telling people it's my hobby now.
No we don't see big model train displays in the department store windows at Christmas time now like there were when I was a kid growing up in the 60s. But we don't have department stores anymore either.
The hobby is alive, well and thriving. The internet has given us a way to have a large cohesive community and its given us the opportunity to learn from each other and from other types of modelers. Weathering from military modelers, painting and construction techniques from the guys who make fantasy miniatures.
Many of the kids who are interested at a young age will come back. It's just that there are a lot of other things in life between time for hobbies sometimes.
Jeff White
Alma, IL
ATLANTIC CENTRALbut skill is not, and never was the problem.
Sheldon,I fully agree because I don't have that much skill beyound the basic modeling skills and those skills has served me well for over 60 years...
My expertise is in designing ISLs, switching operations,industrial detailing and scenery. I learned enough about DCC to fill my liimited DCC needs.
To be honest I can't build a craftsman kit nor wire a toggle switch but,that hasn't hindered my enjoyment of the hobby one itoa
SeeYou190 BRAKIE When you were in high school did you talk about your hobby or was you like the majority of us and kept your love for train secret? How about now? How many people besides family knows about your hobby or are you in the silent majority like me? . I never kept my trains a secret. High School was a lost-cause for me anyhow. I spent my freshman year in Baton Rouge, and that stunted my social growth. As an adult I let it all hang out, don't care. . But, I am 6'7", 300 pounds, drive a pick-up truck, drink beer, and wrestle with heavy equipment for a living. I'll talk about whatever I want. My man-card is secure in my peer group. . I also play with toy soldiers and dress up as Japanese cartoon characters. . -Kevin .
BRAKIE When you were in high school did you talk about your hobby or was you like the majority of us and kept your love for train secret? How about now? How many people besides family knows about your hobby or are you in the silent majority like me?
.
I never kept my trains a secret. High School was a lost-cause for me anyhow. I spent my freshman year in Baton Rouge, and that stunted my social growth. As an adult I let it all hang out, don't care.
But, I am 6'7", 300 pounds, drive a pick-up truck, drink beer, and wrestle with heavy equipment for a living. I'll talk about whatever I want. My man-card is secure in my peer group.
I also play with toy soldiers and dress up as Japanese cartoon characters.
-Kevin
I was not shy about my hobby.
Starting at 13, I worked at the local hobby shop.
I did my 7th grade science fair project on the Westinghouse Air Brake.
At 15 I was a member of the Severna Park Model Railroad Club.
All my friends knew I would be there on Thursday nights.
No one ever gave me a hard time about my hobby, at least not to my face.
And I was only 6', 125 lbs, and on the school newspaper, not the football team.....
Looking back, I have realized I may have been much more "popular" than I thought at the time. But I was never real concerned with all that.
I had friends, we had a great time in High School, I took lots of girls on dates, even if many were just one or two dates each (I had a job, so I had money and a car at 16), I had several steady girls at different times, and everybody knew I was the guy with great record collection and the model trains.....
I was also the guy the tuned up hot rods for lots of guys......and a little later helped them install cams, headers, clutches and 4 speeds.
The hobby was never a problem for me socially.
Sheldon
BRAKIEWhen you were in high school did you talk about your hobby or was you like the majority of us and kept your love for train secret? How about now? How many people besides family knows about your hobby or are you in the silent majority like me?
Living the dream.
BRAKIE rrebell What most you seem to forget is trains take time and skill. When young you have no time or skill. That's a mghty wide paint brush you are using..There are many skilled younger modelers doing excellent work of course they have little or no use for craftsman type kits. Their expertise is in scenery and details.
rrebell What most you seem to forget is trains take time and skill. When young you have no time or skill.
What most you seem to forget is trains take time and skill. When young you have no time or skill.
That's a mghty wide paint brush you are using..There are many skilled younger modelers doing excellent work of course they have little or no use for craftsman type kits.
Their expertise is in scenery and details.
I'm with Larry here.
I'm not into this whole "save the hobby by recruiting young people" thing, but skill is not, and never was the problem.
I was building Silver Streak wood rolling stock and Mantua loco kits at age 14, many of which are still on my layout and hold up just fine against my newer work or modern RTR.
At the same time I learned to hand lay track, did some light scratch building, etc.
And I had plenty of time for trains.
It is all about interest - either you are or you are not.
I try to get kids into trains as much as I can. I have two friends that are into it, most likly because of me. At train shows and events that we have the club layout at, I target little kids(3,4,5,6) because they are most likly to have interest and don't play video games. Never liked video games myself.
A smartphone is more difficult to operate than some DCC system, like Trix Mobile Station, which has a nice GUI and easy menu-driven setup. The best of it, it is one of the most inexpensive system around, albeit not cheap concerning the features it offers.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Tinplate Toddler I don´t think that the type of control and/or throttle has anything to do with the dwindling of interest in model trains among the younger generation. DCC has been around for nearly 30 years now and complex and intriguing computer control based on DCC is also around for not only a few years.
I don´t think that the type of control and/or throttle has anything to do with the dwindling of interest in model trains among the younger generation. DCC has been around for nearly 30 years now and complex and intriguing computer control based on DCC is also around for not only a few years.
I think you may be making my point for me. The DCC of the past 30 years has never really been plug-n-play or even close to intuitive the way most people expect technology to be.
Today's technology should enable us to meet the public's expectation of how easy interaction with technolgy should be.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
riogrande5761 Perhaps we'll have to agree to "vigerously" disagree.
Perhaps we'll have to agree to "vigerously" disagree.
Whatever that means.
Gary
NittanyLion Adults with deep pockets, compared to literal children, serve as a huge driver of the business that even the bottom end of the hobby caters to them. The bottom end now is what the middle used to be on a variety of angles. Rocketry fascinates me, both from the point of view of someone that literally works in the space industry and as someone that fondly remembers his own Estes Alpha III from fifth grade or so. My mom has a cousin that got up into that "basically a surface-to-air missile" level of amateur rocketry too, and that always was like...holy cow to a kid. It doesn't take a lot to react your maximum in regardes to altitude and range when you're younger and I think that causes some level of stall out in interest. I had access to a farm, so everything came down on our property no matter how far down-range it could get. My nephews, with far more limited areas to fly, could never get beyond the fairly small rockets and 1/2A and A engines. Fittingly, they sorta lost interest once they couldn't "do more."
Adults with deep pockets, compared to literal children, serve as a huge driver of the business that even the bottom end of the hobby caters to them. The bottom end now is what the middle used to be on a variety of angles.
Rocketry fascinates me, both from the point of view of someone that literally works in the space industry and as someone that fondly remembers his own Estes Alpha III from fifth grade or so. My mom has a cousin that got up into that "basically a surface-to-air missile" level of amateur rocketry too, and that always was like...holy cow to a kid. It doesn't take a lot to react your maximum in regardes to altitude and range when you're younger and I think that causes some level of stall out in interest. I had access to a farm, so everything came down on our property no matter how far down-range it could get. My nephews, with far more limited areas to fly, could never get beyond the fairly small rockets and 1/2A and A engines. Fittingly, they sorta lost interest once they couldn't "do more."
My club regularly helps build and launch with Scouts/Schools/4H groups. They really seem to enjoy it, but I'm not sure how many stick with it. Open spaces to launch is a problem for kids.
Bubbytrains All I can add to this topic (and it’s slightly off-topic) is that, over the years, I’ve had many various service professionals (furnace maintenance; internet technician; plumber; electrician; appliance delivery) come into the basement of my house and go by my layout, and never once did any of them mention or even seem to take note of my trains. I wondered if they just felt they should remain professional at all times? It didn’t bother me, it just surprised me. Other than one female furnace technician, the rest were all men as far as I can remember. Alan
All I can add to this topic (and it’s slightly off-topic) is that, over the years, I’ve had many various service professionals (furnace maintenance; internet technician; plumber; electrician; appliance delivery) come into the basement of my house and go by my layout, and never once did any of them mention or even seem to take note of my trains. I wondered if they just felt they should remain professional at all times? It didn’t bother me, it just surprised me. Other than one female furnace technician, the rest were all men as far as I can remember.
Alan
Funny, that's how I met the group I meet with 15 years ago. The layout was around the furnace I was working on.
I could care less if people in my orbit don't have an interest in model railroading. I don't have an interest in what they do.
I am 62 and have enough MRR stuff (products) to keep me rolling until I croak. There are plenty of clubs around as well as well attended train shows. I can have all the social interaction my soul can handle if I choose to do so.
The hobby is thriving as evidenced by companies like Rapido and Bachmann China.
http://www.chinesemodeltrains.com/
Rapido seems to be really starting to roll over in Europe as well as here in North America and let's not forget the long-established companies.
Stop worrying about what others are doing with their time and get a hobby unless that is your hobby. Personally, I like model railroading.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BRAKIEAnd that is the sad part that I will never understand. Why is it ok for grown men to fly model airplanes or race R/C cars but,not cool to be interested in model trains?
Escapes my understanding as well! I still remember the time nearly all boys wanted to become engineer. Being an engineer was a highly reputed profession, although not well paid. A few years later, most boys wanted to be pilots, but that has also changed in the meantime and was replaced by jobs like computer game designer and what not.
That development is maybe mirrored in our hobby.
Howard Zane For the hobby, I feel the future is among the newly retired. They now will have time for a hobby, have funds, know about trains, and most likely have some sort of an affinity for them.
For the hobby, I feel the future is among the newly retired. They now will have time for a hobby, have funds, know about trains, and most likely have some sort of an affinity for them.
I think you are correct there Howard.
BTW I'm living in St Augustine FL now, and missing that Timonium Train Show SO MUCH.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Tinplate ToddlerSocial acceptance of grown men playing with trains seems to be greater in Europe and Japan than at your end of the Big Pond.
And that is the sad part that I will never understand. Why is it ok for grown men to fly model airplanes or race R/C cars but,not cool to be interested in model trains?
However.
During the week of the County fair I heard a lot of questions about the hobby from teens to adults.
Here's the two main questions:
1. How much does the hobby cost?
My answer: How much you want to spend? You can buy a engine or two,some cars and join the club or you can build a 4x8' layout add some switches for industries and a small town area and some screney and you're good to go.
2: Mostly from teens..Can you explain how DCC works?
A: I explain the basic concept and the meaning of CVs and their use without going over their heads.
Larry,
where I live, trains are still very much a part of every day life and the number of model railroaders may even exceed the number in your country. Nevertheless, recruiting the next generation is becoming more and more challenging - aside from "devices", there are other pastimes rapidly gaining ground, like war gaming, role playing etc.
Yes, all of my friends and neighbors know I am into "playing with tiny trains" and I never had to hide my interest. Social acceptance of grown men playing with trains seems to be greater in Europe and Japan than at your end of the Big Pond.
Tinplate Toddlerost people younger than 60 have no relation to trains, because trains are not a part of their daily life. Why develop an interest in something you have never experienced, with the added disadvantage of having to invest blood, sweat and tears before you can enjoy it.
Have you seen all the young faces trackside or their videos on you tube?
When you was in high school did you talk about your hobby or was you like the majority of us and kept your love for train secrete? How about now? How many people besides family knows about your hobby or are you in the silent majority like me?
How may modelers live on your street or in your neighborhood? That my friend is a $64,000 question I can not answer.
I can't help but wonder how many teens and other young modelers are on this forum?
Most people younger than 60 have no relation to trains, because trains are not a part of their daily life. Why develop an interest in something you have never experienced, with the added disadvantage of having to invest blood, sweat and tears before you can enjoy it?
BRAKIE Howard Zane As mentioned before, the market is now the newly retired and train shows do a lot to introduce the hobby to these folks. Howard,I see a lot of young faces in the hobby and my Grandson and generation is light years from being retired. I do know a lot of those young chaps loves the idea of using their smart phones as DCC throttles by using JMRI and that's beyond my basic knowledge of DCC. I also think DCC/Sound and Train Sim has help the hobby especially with the younger generation..
Howard Zane As mentioned before, the market is now the newly retired and train shows do a lot to introduce the hobby to these folks.
Howard,I see a lot of young faces in the hobby and my Grandson and generation is light years from being retired.
I do know a lot of those young chaps loves the idea of using their smart phones as DCC throttles by using JMRI and that's beyond my basic knowledge of DCC.
I also think DCC/Sound and Train Sim has help the hobby especially with the younger generation..
MR has had a couple of intresting and informative reviews of this type of equipment in recent issues. I think that Model railroading has just about reached the tipping point where smart phones are utilized to their fullest in control systems. Mobile phones have more processing power than any throttle (and the capability for much more intuitive control/programin) and as much as most computers that folks have used in their DCC'ing, yet they are largely treated only as a minor peripheral throttle.
Still need to have easier programing from the phone with intuitive menus, a bit more plug-and-play, and migrate a bit further away from proprietary control hardware (something companies are understandably reluctant to do) but we're very close. I'm watching very closely for what the next couple years will bring.
Howard ZaneAs mentioned before, the market is now the newly retired and train shows do a lot to introduce the hobby to these folks.