BRAKIEI built mt first ISL way back in '62 or '63 using "stiff" brass flex track with fiber ties so using ME flex came natual to me.
I built my first 2 layouts using it.
But I really like using the super flex (or floppy flex). I find it easier to work with.
Paul
rrinker It's kind of what sold me on Peco, too. I have been perfectly happy to use Atlas turnouts in the past, but I wanted to have more variety. And not have to play games with matching different brands every time there was a turnout. So I ordered some Peco flex.
That does sound attractive although I'm used to matching different codes and brands, but still the less of that the better.
I found it to be flexible enough to curve smoothly like Atlas, but not quite as floppy. But far easier to form smooth curves than the ME I also ordered to try. So, since it was easy to work, and sine Peco has a huge selection of Coe 83 turnouts, it was a no-brainer. Plus I already have a lifetime suppyl of replacement ties, 5 sections of flex with most of the rail already stripped off - and plenty of rail to cut up into lengths to stack alongside yard offices and MOW shacks. --Randy
--Randy
That all sounds good. Since I'm stock piling Peco turnouts, I'll be looking at their flex as well!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761Not so good if smooth flowing track work is important, but maybe for an ISL where track is often wavy, hey, stiff track kinda works better there.
Jim, One needs smooth track work on a ISL since there is a lot of back and forth switching action so,and IMHO that's where ME track shines..I can shape my curve off the switch and it stays in place unlike the Atlas spring back into shape flex.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It's kind of what sold me on Peco, too. I have been perfectly happy to use Atlas turnouts in the past, but I wanted to have more variety. And not have to play games with matching different brands every time there was a turnout. So I ordered some Peco flex. First order got mangled thnks to having the gorillas from the old Samsonite luggage commercials handle the package, but a repalcement shipment came through with perfectly good pieces. I found it to be flexible enough to curve smoothly like Atlas, but not quite as floppy. But far easier to form smooth curves than the ME I also ordered to try. So, since it was easy to work, and sine Peco has a huge selection of Coe 83 turnouts, it was a no-brainer. Plus I already have a lifetime suppyl of replacement ties, 5 sections of flex with most of the rail already stripped off - and plenty of rail to cut up into lengths to stack alongside yard offices and MOW shacks.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
BRAKIEJim,I built mt first ISL way back in '62 or '63 using "stiff" brass flex track with fiber ties so using ME flex came natual to me.
You are definitely more of a man than me! You had to learn to "wrestle the snake" as Mike put it. For an ISL where track is may be wavy as you look down it, hey, stiff track kinda works better there.
I bought some track online around 1990 and was sort of horrified to see fiber ties and held to rail with staples and thanks my lucky stars that was a "one off" and made sure I avoided it after that. Must have been left over from the early 1960's. Yikes! Maybe I can be thankful I was born after most of that was gone but the consequences are I can't claim to be be aclimated to laying track with bear skins and stone knives.
At least for track, we'll have to agree to disagree and I'll refer anyone back to Randy's well said defense of springy flex track. It's got the "bent stick" built in for nice smooth flowing.
I do the same...
dbduck not trying to sabitoge this thread but I do have a different yet somewhat related question when laying flex track on a curve which side do you prefer to put the "sliding" rail on..inside or out?
not trying to sabitoge this thread but I do have a different yet somewhat related question
when laying flex track on a curve which side do you prefer to put the "sliding" rail on..inside or out?
Easy answer for me which I came to naturally. Inside rail slides and sticks out since the inside rail of a curve covers a shorter distance. I cut off the excess rail that sticks out and I'm all set to connect the next piece.
Once you have a Dremel - it becomes a FREQUENTLY used tool. Well worth it -
a Dremel is like the Sawzall of the hobby world not used for everything but is the ONLY tool for some jobs And like a Sawzall we keep finding more & more uses
I figured it would stir some passions to even mention the difference in how flex track works. To each his own, but it's worth mentioning because people have different preferences and that can be an important and very early choice when starting a layout. Most of my track is narrowgauge and we don't need any easements, but on the occasions when they are called for the eye and hand can form them easily enough. Eliminating the snake wrestling is more important to me.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
riogrande5761You know, so many talk about the virtues of ME "stiff" flex track but after building 3 layouts with springy flex track, I love the stuff.
Jim,I built mt first ISL way back in '62 or '63 using "stiff" brass flex track with fiber ties so using ME flex came natual to me.
I won't go back to floppy flex track ever again.
If I could finish my HO Slate Ceek I would use Code 70 instead of '83.
I decided on my N Scale ISL to use Code 55.
IDRick I'm curious what others use to fit a piece of flex track between two other pieces of track that are already attached to the layout? I like using a razor saw with a miter box.
I'm curious what others use to fit a piece of flex track between two other pieces of track that are already attached to the layout? I like using a razor saw with a miter box.
I tried using a razor saw to cut track many years ago; granted I was a noob, but it didn't go well for me. No thank you.
I do what most others here do, a combination of Xuron rail nippers and a Dremel with a cut-off wheel.
I use the Dremel on almost all my rail cuts because I can dress the end with a nice clean end. I use needle files also where needed to dress ends.
Never been a prooblem for me. I put the piece in place, mark where it needs to be cut. After that, who cares if it springs back? Doesn;t change anything, the cut mark is where it needs to be cut to fit when it is curved in place. Easy peasy. Peco flex is slightly stiffer than Atlas but nowhere near as stiff as ME.
I've always found Atlas springy flex track to be super easy to work with and get a smooth flowing curve with a minimum of effort.
I still say you will NEVER get as smooth flowing curves with ME as you cna get with Atlas, Atlas naturally forms easements. For a beginner especially, MUCH easier to use Atlas, where having smooth trackwork is the most important thing, the track that is easier to do this with is easier for the beginner. To get the same kind of smooth easements with ME track, you need to lay out the easement by drawing a centerline in some fashioon, using a bent stick or similar, and then bit by bit curve the track to line up. With Atlas - just offset the centerline of the tangent track by a couple of inches, and have the curve centerline marked - no need to draw the actual easement part. Attach the tangent end, bend the far end around to meet the curve centerline, and done. If you nail the track down, no difference. If you use caulk, might need a couple of push pins to hold the Atlas which wouldn;t be needed for ME, but I put pushpins even in straight track and turnouts while the caulk dries. I mean - Joe Fugate has a whole video on how to curve ME track. Don't need that much instruction to get smooth curves with Atlas. --Randy
I mean - Joe Fugate has a whole video on how to curve ME track. Don't need that much instruction to get smooth curves with Atlas.
Preach it brother! Everything you say about Atlas is dead-on. The springy nature makes it soooo easy to layout easements as well.
You know, so many talk about the virtues of ME "stiff" flex track but after building 3 layouts with springy flex track, I love the stuff.
I have some "stiff" shinohara code 70 flex, which I believe is similar to ME flex, and it's always a ROYAL pain in the arse to work with. Massage, massage massage and more massage. For folks to like that kind of thing, more power to you, but for me and my RR, no thanks.
I am interested in trying Peco if it is somewhat springy and their code 83 looks better than Atlas code 83 flex, it may be worth trying despite the higher cost.
There is one thing I don't like about Atlas code 83, the top of the rail looks just about as wide as the Atlas code 100. Sure, it's code 83 which is a measure of the height of the rail, but how do we view rail mostly? From the top, and when it looks almost the same as code 100 rail from the top, then in that regard Atlas code 83 disappoints. Shame really because otherwise - price, ease of use, smaller tie detail etc, it's pretty good.
I'll be giving Peco code 83 a close look for my next layout, although the cost is higher. I'm already stock piling Peco electrofrog turnouts to replace my Walthers and Atlas turnouts.
I do use Atlas track nails and ME spike to secure the track down, until ballast is in place so I don't use caulk.
Never been a prooblem for me. I put the piece in place, mark where it needs to be cut. After that, who cares if it springs back? Doesn;t change anything, the cut mark is where it needs to be cut to fit when it is curved in place. Easy peasy. Peco flex is slightly stiffer than Atlas but nowhere near as stiff as ME. I still say you will NEVER get as smooth flowing curves with ME as you cna get with Atlas, Atlas naturally forms easements. For a beginner especially, MUCH easier to use Atlas, where having smooth trackwork is the most important thing, the track that is easier to do this with is easier for the beginner. To get the same kind of smooth easements with ME track, you need to lay out the easement by drawing a centerline in some fashioon, using a bent stick or similar, and then bit by bit curve the track to line up. With Atlas - just offset the centerline of the tangent track by a couple of inches, and have the curve centerline marked - no need to draw the actual easement part. Attach the tangent end, bend the far end around to meet the curve centerline, and done. If you nail the track down, no difference. If you use caulk, might need a couple of push pins to hold the Atlas which wouldn;t be needed for ME, but I put pushpins even in straight track and turnouts while the caulk dries.
I don't believe anyone has mentioned that cutting flex track depends in part on what brand you use. Atlas is famous for its easy flexing, but it tends to straighten back out. Never used Peco. But with ME flex, bend it and it tends to stay in the shape you changed it into.
What this means it that ME can be shaped to fill your gap, then easily cut with the Xuron or other cutter. I prefer to cut to fit, than to measure then cut. That's something that Atlas track has a problem with, because it wants to spring back toward being straight again.
If it's a short section say 4" or less I use individual rails and ties. For a drop in you have to cut ties off to slide the joiner all the way on and then put ties under the rail any way, so the individual rail/ties isn't much different. Also, I find it easier to get each rail the exact length when doing them one at a time.
Otherwise for longer gaps, I use rail nippers to cut off a section of flex track.
Another way to get a 90 degree cut with Dremel is to use their flexible shaft.
Rick, I use the 426B 1 1/4" reinforce fiberglass cut off wheel.
Awesome discussion and most helpful! Thanks, guys!
Not having used a Dremel tool before, I spent some time on youtube and other sites looking at various models. Interestingly, all the demonstrations showed significant sparking when cutting through metal. My layout has 1-inch foam board over plywood. Does the sparking damage the foamboard or is there a potential fire risk? What do you use to prevent damage (if it is a problem)? Which cutting wheels do you recommend? Thanks!
Lion won the thread with his man-sized cutter! LOL
rrinker When did Lion get job on real railroad? Him not mention this before. --Randy
When did Lion get job on real railroad? Him not mention this before.
'Eh? LION cut out that picture a year ago and was just waiting for a tread to use it in. I am surprised that it ook so long to get one.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
DoughlessLay the track over the other, then I use a razor saw to score the rails evenly as a cutting mark. I use a Xuron rail nipper to cut.
Last time I cut a full piece of flex to fill a short gap I found I needed that full piece elsewhere so,I started using snap track in assorted pieces since there is the same amount of joiners.
For me 9" or less snap will work anything above 9" then I will use flex unless its at a end of a industrial siding then snap track will work.
For length I do what Doughless does, lay the piece over and mark it. Also cut long, I can either take another nip if it's still way too long, or file the cut end if it's close. That takes care of curve or straight. If I'm in a hurry I will often just pinch the rail where it needs to be cut, lift it off, and cut up against my finger nail. Another thing I often do where the track has to curve, is cut one rail to fit, the outside one, and then refit the section and mark and cut the inside rail, rather than trying to cut both at the same time.
I dunno about 10x as good a Xuron, Xuron is top notch stuff, not cheap Chinesium tools. Highly respected in the electronic industry for their cutters - which is what most of their "railroad" tools are. In fact I use one of my rail nippers to cut leads on circuit boards - an alternative use that is not dangerous to the tool, since copper lead wires are even softer than nicek silver rail. I have a pair of heavy duty hardened diagonal cutters to cut music wire for turnout linkages, final trim I use a cutoff wheel, but to take pieces off a long section I use the cutters. While there's always a chance that you bend to Dremel and shatter the cutoff wheel, the cut off piece tends to fly out to the side, compared to cutting a short piece off with a cutter, which tends to shoot it straight up - please always wear eye protection no matter which way you do it.
To cut flex track I use Snap-On flush cutting heavy duty pliers. About 5 times the cost of a Xuron tool and 10 times as good.
.
Measuring the length of the piece can be a problem if it is curved. I like the suggestion of using a flexible rule.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I use a corded "dremel" from harbor freight, it was only about $30.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
I've gone through a motor tool (don't recall the brand) which probably appeared around the same time as Dremel, in the '30s (it belonged to my father), and two Dremels.The one I'm currently using is a variable speed model from JobMate, and it's equipped with a flexible shaft. It takes any of the Dremel accessories, but can also handle some larger stuff, too.
I probably use it more for working with a cut-off disc than for anything else.
Drilling is usually done with pinvises or, when necessary, my cordless Dewalt impact driver. It has good low-speed capabilities, and by supporting it in the drawer of my workdesk and manipulating the work-piece, I get good results even with #79 or 80 drill bits.
Wayne
Lay the track over the other, then I use a razor saw to score the rails evenly as a cutting mark. I use a Xuron rail nipper to cut.
I'll often cheat the razor line to the long side just to ensure I don't cut it short. Then nip the second time for a perfect fit.
- Douglas
IDRickBrakie, how did you know? I do have some old atlas snap track straight pieces that could be used if the gap is 9" or less.
Rick, I used a white plastic school ruler to measure the distence between the two sections of flex. I simply place the ruler along the side of the ends of the rail and measure the gap.
Those rulers works like a charm.
BTW.. If there is any numbers left of the zero on the ruler I cut them off.
LION use MOTOR TOOL:
ROARING!!!
PURRfect cuts every time
Once you have a Dremel - it becomes a FREQUENTLY used tool. Well worth it - though I do not bother with cordless, they are more bulky.
Amazon has some large diameter dimond cutoff wheels that are a lot cheaper option than buying a flex shaft or right angle attachment, and are larger in diameter than the Dremel tool itself, allowing vertical cuts.
But, most of my cutting for fitting is done with Xuron rail nippers. Just make sure to apply the blade to the rail in the correct orientation - one side of the cut is very clean with minimal touching up with a small file necessary, the other side tends to be more mangled - usually if the leftover piece is still long enough to use elsewhere, i will turn the nippers around and cut off the ugly cut end to make a clean cut end to start the next fitting. Just never use the rail nippers to cut anything heavier than brass or nickel silver rail. They are not hardened and cutting things like music wire used for Tortoise linkage will put a great big ugly notch in the cutter and it will no longer make smooth rail cuts.
UNCLEBUTCH Dremel/cutoff blade. The few times I used a saw, ended up tearing rails out of ties
Dremel/cutoff blade. The few times I used a saw, ended up tearing rails out of ties
Prior to acquiring the flex cable for a Dremel tool, I tore out the rails with a cut off disk. It's easier to get into existing trackage than a razor saw in many instances.
I overlay a suitably long piece of flex, use track nails to hold it in place along a curve or tangent as necessary, and then mark the rail to be cut with a permanent marker. Important, though, to use joiners at the other end so that the end is aligned and that the rest of your track to the overlaid part is 'true'.
Using a nipper, I cut the rail(s), and then replace as before. To get the fit I need from long to 'just right', I keep kissing the ends of the cut rail with the side of the spinning cut-off disk. This must be done with focus and control because the disk is not designed to flex. So.......don't make it flex!! Just a series of short gentle touches until the rail slips into place. Add a joiner if you wish at that time.