Hi Boris--
I was apparently confused: Jersey Shore is also a small town in North Central PA located maybe 15 miles west of Newberry Junction, the westernmost terminus of the Reading RR and interchange with NYC, which dried up Reading bridge traffic after PC.
John
Paul3 were all of why did they split it up in roughly NYC and PRR-sized pieces?
were all of why did they split it up in roughly NYC and PRR-sized pieces?
They didn't? CSX and NS each were already bigger than the PC. They just sawed off PRR and NYC sized chunks.
Your beloved new Haven was broke itself and wasn't going to survive any how, besides the PC was forced to take the broken road, they didn't want it, he'll, prr and nyc people didn't get along, so you think they were going to salvage that road, stop whining about the pc, it happened because the road was a failure.
John,You obviously don't know any NH fans. NH fans will never forgive what PC did to the NH. The arrogance of the new bosses, the Poughkeepsie Bridge fire, the staged derailments to allow for track abandonment, the sabotage of passenger trains, etc. Heck, they tried to single track the NEC between Providence, RI and New Haven, CT and abandon the still-going-strong-today Providence & Worcester.
A fellow club member was a junior engineer in an office in Boston's South Station in the early PC era. He was sent to the basement to get something, and found a treasure trove of NH and pre-NH railroad records, drawings, and paperwork going back over 100 years. When he returned a month or so later, they were all gone. When he asked what happened, they told him PC threw it all in the dumpster.
PC owned the very last DL-109 in existence in South Boston. Jim Bradley, who had purchased a number of heavyweight passenger cars from the NH, made an offer for the loco. PC scrapped it instead.
The late 1960's and 1970's was the absolute nadir of American railroads, and PC was the biggest American business failure until Enron. Wow, sounds like fun; I can't imagine why more people don't want to model this era.
Boris,PC deserves every ounce of that bum rap. Standing derailments...that doesn't tend to happen these days but they sure did on PC. They were losing a $1 million a day.
Operated in a more reliable manner than their successors? I hope you're not serious. In the early 1970's, my grandfather shipped a car of dry ice from Pennsylvania to Boston...they found it in Texas. When PC put together a 4 or 5 engine set, how often were all of them still running by the time they got to the end of the run?
I'm always amused when people bring up Conrail as being what PC could have been. But they always forget to throw in the other railroads that formed PC: E-L, L&HR, AA, LV, RDG, and CNJ, which gave CR practically a complete monopoly in the Northeast. And not to mention billions of dollars of government money.
Besides, if CR and PC was such a great idea, why did they split it up in roughly NYC and PRR-sized pieces?
The PC merger should have never happened in the first place, and it took them 30 years to fix it.
I ran a poll on my blog last month, and here are the results. All of the railroads below have one vote, exept CP, B&M, and NH.
2
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
PRR8259You are from Jersey Shore? I'm from Loyalsock Twp.
I'm originally from SE Pennsylvania, but under the auspices of Conrail, I have lived in numerous places including Metro DC, Baltimore and now Central Jersey.
I am a member of the PCRRHS, but not the CR society. My modeling interest varied depending on where I lived at the time, but has reverted to SE Pennsylvania, specifically the PC and Reading lines in Chester and Marcus Hook.
The PC has somewhat of a bum rap, as they handled a lot of business both freight and passenger in a more reliable manner esecially when compared to their successor lines. Clearly, the people at the top had a different vision than those who operated the railroad, but even starved of cash, the railroad functioned mostly reliably.
Conrail, actually implemented the PC merger plan, and had some legislative relief, from regulation, but primarily did what PC planned on but failed to implement.
I chose to model the PC, because I was there for the whole time it existed, while my time with Conrail was twice interupted by side trips to Amtrak has a culture that is a cross between the old PRR and a Government agency.
Boris
Glad to hear of your friend keeping that hobby shop open. For those that like modern shortlines such as the Lake State Railway. There is a really nice video on YouTube uploaded by delay in block. As well as a few others. I have a couple older brass diesels bound for a painter next spring to be painted in their latest paint scheme. A GP40 and a pair of SD40s should make good power for a small layout
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
You are from Jersey Shore? I'm from Loyalsock Twp.
My buddy who is taking over a train store in South Central PA during January (for real) is a PRR fan, and he also buys and runs PC, Conrail, and NS stuff. (Do not be concerned; all employees including the former owner are staying and the customer service will remain the same or even better--nobody will know anything changed).
The days of people, even perhaps including myself at a few points, not being able to "forgive" Penn Central for "killing" what came before, are just plain over and done. When I was a kid, it was the railroad I saw, period. That and Reading...They are what I remember.
My friends who were unable to accept Penn Central--many of them are now dead and buried. Sorry to say, but that is the reality. I miss them greatly, but anybody can run anything they want to run on my layout and I do accept visitors.
My layout is designed to accommodate anything except some of the largest brass steamers. All the diecast and plastic articulateds can run, and have.
P.S. There is a PC Historical Society, and I think the Conrail Historical Society is or was until recently even headquartered in my town, Marysville, near the west end of the Rockville Bridge. To the best of my knowledge, the local guys all get along now, whether it be PRR, PC, CR, RDG, what have you. I no longer actively railfan, as my chance of seeing former Santa Fe stuff is rather small now.
Just based on all the messages posted in this thread, my candidate for the least modeled railroad, is the Penn Central. I know it is sacrilegious to even mention the PC in the presence of a Pennsylvania fan, but I was there for the entire life (February 1968 through March 1976), and I do admit to modeling the railroad, along with the Reading.
For many years, I was the ultimate freelancer as I have never met a locomotive or piece of rolling stock I disliked...so even though my Piermont Division pike was loosely based on Appalachian railroads, the Piermont management would lease equipment from many US and Canadian roads. This enabled me to play with any choo choo I liked. Only recently I decided to model Erie,PRR, and NYC late steam and early diesels...or better put 1950. I grew up with these railroads. I also witnessed and had a strong history with the CNJ, DL&W, O&W, LV, and D&H. So visitors will see equipment now from all of these roads and still others that wind my clock. The only rule I know in this hobby is to have fun and play with anything you like. It is your railroad.
HZ
I always revert to Santa Fe though live in the east...Dad just wanted me to stick with one road...now he's gone.
I got a lot of verbal ribbing for being the only "Santa Fe guy" who worked for the local train store (and also Bowser).
Even now they have few Santa Fe customers. There are about 20 regular suspects in PA and the store sales manager knows most by name.
Most train stores in the east do not have much western stuff and never did; it is hard to find all that much even at shows. The larger shops order about two of every Genesis item, as an example, because they know they will sell mail order, and in PA, two of every Santa Fe item would satisfy us few diehards most of the time. Oddly enough, here in Central PA, the SP units with the SP light package do well! My friends order extras of them because they go. The Halloween Scheme Geep SP unit I was contemplating is already gone...
They buy two of each BLI steamer as a minimum order figuring they will sell over the counter or in the mail, but that is a large store connected to TTH. I dont expect my (small shop) buddy or the smaller shops who remain to cater to western road fans.
We lost a lot of small train stores here the last couple years. Some were irascible owners. They all gone now. Now only one store remains near state capitol at all.
doctorwayneInterchange on the real railroads is part of your modeler's license to allow you to represent other roads on your layout, even if you don't model those roads or live in the area where they operate. And nowadays, with run-through locomotives, power-sharing, etc., it's not unusual to see "foreign" road names on the head-end of a train.
And right you are, Wayne. There are plenty of photos of Eastern passenger trains with a Western sleeping car in the consist as an example of passenger cars being interchanged and the same is true for express cars as well. In an interchange yard or on an interchange track, the connecting railroad's locos certainly would be seen and are worth modeling. On my new layout currently under construction, the DL&W interchanges with the Erie at an Erie freight transfer yard. I have a DL&W GP7 that will make a regular guest appearance to pick up cars and, in the future, a Lackawanna caboose to be set off on the side until the train is put together and ready to leave.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
My layout, except for a couple of interchange connections represented by short on-layout tracks, doesn't represent any prototype railroad. I do have a few CNR locos and will have at least a couple of TH&B locos (they're both direct interchange partners) but I do have a fairly wide-ranging collection of freight cars from all over North America...Canada, the U.S., and Mexico.The reason for that is that I grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, at that time the most industrialised city in Canada, and makers of just about anything anybody could want or need. As a result, the trains I saw were made-up of cars from all over North America.
My layout is freelanced, with real place names, none of which resemble their prototypes. The freight cars, mostly, are based on real ones, with most built to match photos in books or photos I've taken. I can't say for sure if any are the exact cars I saw (well, perhaps a couple) but they're representative of what was around at that time, and there's no reason to doubt that the selection of roads would have been any less in the late '30s, the era I'm modelling, even if it was before my time.Interchange on the real railroads is part of your modeller's licence to allow you to represent other roads on your layout, even if you don't model those roads or live in the area where they operate. And nowadays, with run-through locomotives, power sharing, etc., it's not unusual to see "foreign" roadnames on the headend of a train.
Wayne
I agree that sales are regional and so are tastes. I lived most of my life in California and have also lived in Oregon and Nevada. When I was little I lived in Chicago. I’ve always lived in railroad towns. My influences were from what I saw every day. I model Santa Fe and also Southern Pacific since they are the two major railroads in southern California and the two I was around the most often. Union Pacific is around but it’s number three. Even today locals still call BNSF, ‘Santa Fe’ and Union Pacific is still ‘the old Southern Pacific’. As for regional sales I will say that I buy models from western railroads. I mostly have Santa Fe and Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt locomotives but I also have a couple from Union Pacific, Rio Grande, and one from Chicago Northwestern. Most of my rolling stock is the same, Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, and some Oregon shortlines which primarily ship lumber. I do have some other rolling stock but the vast majority is from the west. I also have some old time Virginia and Truckee because I used to live in Reno Nevada. Other old time locomotives include Central Pacific and rolling stock from Central Pacific, Union Pacific.
The LSR certainly does have a terrific website and video.
emdmikeThe Lake State Railway would be another one of those seldom modeled, modern shortlines.
I just had to check that out. Nice short line, and their paint scheme is great!
https://www.lsrc.com/
Thanks!
Mike.
My You Tube
I understand where Sheldon is going with his clothing analogy. If a model train company makes a "dud" roadname wise, either they or the hobby shops will be stuck with unsold stock on the shelf, which will have to be marked down till it sells. Even if it is at a loss. The brass industry has been avoiding this for many years by taking "reservations" and when enough models are reserved, they make the model. If not enough modelers/collectors are interested, the project is canceled. This is now filtering down to the plastic side of the hobby, mostly in reguards to locomotives. So we take the explosion of shortlines, many are mostly unknown outside of the local modeling community, espicialy before the internet came about. To warrent making those odd ball road names in a mass production enviroment just didnt make sense for many years, and many companies still do not offer many if any shortline/unknown paint schemes. This leaves modelers to seek out decal makers and custom painters to create those models. Right now I am looking for someone to paint a brass GP40 into the Lake State Railways newest paint scheme, which nobody offers otherwise. One of Michigan's most successful shortlines, moving from a mostly Alco powered line to nice looking EMD power, engines are kept amazingly clean. The Lake State Railway would be another one of those seldom modeled, modern shortlines. But if locomotives were offered, say all of the 6300 series SD40-2's(rebuilt SD40's), espicaly if Kato did them, then that line might see more demand for rolling stock to be offered. With the lack of custom painters, the cost of having said work done, and the general loss of those ablities by many in the modeling group, allows the manufactures to somewhat "steer" what lines are modeled by what they offer in locomotives and rolling stock.
Morristown & Erie Railway, 9mi, still active
Raritan River Railroad, 12 mi, became part of Conrail
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Metro Red Line ATLANTIC CENTRAL And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed. I'm actualy from LA (I assume you mean "LA" as in Los Angeles and not Louisiana), but historically speaking and in terms of general visibility, the Union Pacific wasn't really a huge player in terms of railroads here, at least compared to the Southern Pacific (their tracks were everywhere and so was their affiliated electric interurban subsidiary, the Pacific Electric). The Santa Fe also played a huge role in the development of certain Southern California suburbs, and was a close #2 here, but the UP wasn't as influential in the region (they were more known for their passenger lines than freight). It wasn't until after they acquired the SP that the UP became a major railroad in this area. Although I'm west-biased, I would tend to think the Santa Fe was the most popular railroad ever (this coming from someone who currently models the UP, and formerly the SP). The warbonnet F-units were true icons, immortalized by Lionel and nearly every other train set maker, and even if you asked someone who isn't really familiar with trains to name a railroad, they'll most likely say "Santa Fe."
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed.
And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed.
I'm actualy from LA (I assume you mean "LA" as in Los Angeles and not Louisiana), but historically speaking and in terms of general visibility, the Union Pacific wasn't really a huge player in terms of railroads here, at least compared to the Southern Pacific (their tracks were everywhere and so was their affiliated electric interurban subsidiary, the Pacific Electric). The Santa Fe also played a huge role in the development of certain Southern California suburbs, and was a close #2 here, but the UP wasn't as influential in the region (they were more known for their passenger lines than freight). It wasn't until after they acquired the SP that the UP became a major railroad in this area.
Although I'm west-biased, I would tend to think the Santa Fe was the most popular railroad ever (this coming from someone who currently models the UP, and formerly the SP). The warbonnet F-units were true icons, immortalized by Lionel and nearly every other train set maker, and even if you asked someone who isn't really familiar with trains to name a railroad, they'll most likely say "Santa Fe."
OK, substitute ATSF, SP or any major western road, point remains, interest is often, but not completely regional, but not becuase of any action by the manufacturers.
I've spent little time out west, I have very little interest in western roads. Actually, it has more to do with not having any interest in modeling western scenery........
I do have a passing interest in the Southern Pacific............
But just to note also, have have little interest in trains from the era of my "youth", or present day, I model a time before I was even born, but in the region I have spent my whole life in.
Sheldon
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon When I worked in a hobby shop I seen distributors have close out sales on road names that was poor sellers. I can also recall the turn from Athearn BB engines to Atlas and Life Like P2K locomotives.At the shop where I worked Athearn engines collected dust while Atlas and LL P2K sold like pancakes at IHOP.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
When I worked in a hobby shop I seen distributors have close out sales on road names that was poor sellers.
I can also recall the turn from Athearn BB engines to Atlas and Life Like P2K locomotives.At the shop where I worked Athearn engines collected dust while Atlas and LL P2K sold like pancakes at IHOP.
In those days it was way more likely for a distributor to have a closeout than for a retailer to have a closeout.
The distributor had to buy a whole case, so slow moving items represented more money tied up.
Retailers could buy just one of a slow item just to have a good selection.
I remember those days too, the Atlas locos did slow the sales of Athearn, but I also remember before the Atlas locos, I started in the first shop in 1970.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWho? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Well, Shock Control, to each their own.
I have a very large music collection, over 1700 vinyl albums, 800 music CD's, I design speaker systems as a hobby. I still have every record I ever bought, starting at age 15, most only played on my high quality equipment and in exceptional condition.
My music collection covers a wide range of era's and genres, but I don't have or want any Korla Pandit.
I might suggest you check out John Prine, or Jerry Jeff Walker, or Shel Silverstein.....
My taste runs from AC/DC to Carol King, from Hank Jr to Billy Joel, from the Moody blues to Neil Diamond, from Kris Kristofferson to Boston, from Patsy Cline to the Beach Boys.
But again, no Korla Pandit.......
But not by any doing on the part of the manufacturers.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast. Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different.
In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order.
I can't imagine the model train biz was any different.
Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.
And that has bearing on this question how?
Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse.
Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply.
That was my whole point! And you really need to check out Korla Pandit! You can find pictures of him with his HO trains! Tell 'em Shock Control sent ya!
Shock Control ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon
BigDaddyNot if it's an ugly sport coat or tie. Those don't even sell on closeout prices.
.
My middle daughter went through an "Avril Lavigne" phase in early high school where she wanted to wear a sport coat with every outfit. This would have been around 2003-2004.
I was amazed at how inexpensive small ugly sport coats were!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
...
Shock ControlClothing is a necessity.
Not if it's an ugly sport coat or tie. Those don't even sell on closeout prices.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Shock Control BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.