So I bought a big lot of parts on eBay. With it I got a big variety of MTL trucks and also body mount couplers. I have heard you should go all one way or the other and mixing cars with body mounted couplers with cars that have truck mounted may give me problems. How true is this and is anyone mixing without issues? I have a lot of cars that still have Rapidos that I want to convert and would like to put the body mounts to use if I can. If not I could always sell them and buy trucks.
Another question I have is what is the minimum radius body mounted couplers will operate without derailment or decoupling? I have a couple spots that have 12" radius on my track plan although its mostly 17.5". Any input or experience would be great. Thanks!
I would think body mount is always preferable because there should be less chance of lateral forces on the couplers and trucks causing a derailment when pushing a cut of cars.
Never heard of the all one way or all the other thing ever, but I've been out of N for many years.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Back in my N scale days I body mounted all of my couplers.
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Micro-Trains offered a pre assembled coupler, and their floor castings were pre-drilled for a 00-90 screw, so the conversion was very easy. Everything ran better.
Note: This was more than 20 years ago. Maybe track has improved to the point that this mofification is not longer any benefit.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 Back in my N scale days I body mounted all of my couplers. . Micro-Trains offered a pre assembled coupler, and their floor castings were pre-drilled for a 00-90 screw, so the conversion was very easy. Everything ran better. . Note: This was more than 20 years ago. Maybe track has improved to the point that this mofification is not longer any benefit. . -Kevin .
Unfortunately these couplers aren't pre-assembled, all the parts come on sprues so I have to do it which isn't a big deal but with this lot, among a ton of other things I also got the Micro-Trains assembly jig and height adjustment tool so putting them in shouldn't be an issue. I just want to make sure I won't run into problems if only some of my cars have body mounted couplers.
When I was in N Scale as late as 2012 I started to body mount all my couplers and half way throught the project I decided it was worth the hassell since the truck mouts wasn't causing any issues on my 1'x 8' ISL.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE When I was in N Scale as late as 2012 I started to body mount all my couplers and half way throught the project I decided it was worth the hassell since the truck mouts wasn't causing any issues on my 1'x 8' ISL.
Do you mean the truck mounts were causing you issues?
I think Larry meant to say "decided it wasn't worth the hassle".
It may be that the physics of N-scale may not make it a major issue whether or not you have truck mounted or body mounted couplers.
Probably the best thing would be to operate your rolling stock and see for yourself if pushing long cuts of cars into yard tracks through turnouts results in the trucks being pushed out of alignment and derailing cars.
If operations are ok and no issues when pushing, then no actions need to be taken. Sometimes trail and error is the most instructive.
In N scale, it all depends on if you prefer switching or just watching the trains run.
If switching is your thing, body mounting is the way to go. If you prefer just watching the train run, you could use either. But, i would do the easiest thing and use truck mounted couplers.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
CTConrail Do you mean the truck mounts were causing you issues?
The truck mounts was not causing any issues.. I was caught up in the body mount coupler is better phase of the hobby.
trwrouteIf switching is your thing, body mounting is the way to go.
Not with truck mounted MT couplers they work quit well on ISL switching.I have several years experince with N Scale switching including with those old Rapido couplers.
N Scale MT truck mounts isn't like HO X2F truck mounts..
BRAKIE I was caught up in the body mount coupler is better phase of the hobby.
There is some logic to body mount, because the forces when pushing are straight throught the body rather than through the one truck, then the body, and then the other truck. So in theory, you could derail if there is a lot of force such as a very long cut of freight cars. And at the N-scale level, the physics may not cause problems until and unless you have a very long cut of cars. On an ISL layout, maybe the number of cars being pushed isn't long enough to manifuest problems.
Ok I will be more than likely running trains and doing switching also. I will wait until I have some of my track laid hopefully in a few weeks and run a shoving test with truck mounted. The whole idea behind this was to make use of the body mounts I have because I'm not sure I have enough truck mounted to change over all of my Rapidos. Does anyone forsee any problems running cars with body mounts and truck mounts together?
riogrande5761On an ISL layout, maybe the number of cars being pushed isn't long enough to manifuest problems.
Jim,Unlike HO I could shove up to 12 cars on my 8' ISL..
With that said around 2010 there was a outcry for manufacturers to body mount couplers so,today quailty N Scale cars come with body mounted couplers.
Of course there was those that argued againt this major change.
CTConrailDoes anyone forsee any problems running cars with body mounts and truck mounts together?
No..MT couplers play quite well together regardless if they are truck mounted or body mounted.
Again I had both and had no issues.
BRAKIE CTConrail Does anyone forsee any problems running cars with body mounts and truck mounts together? No..MT couplers play quite well together regardless if they are truck mounted or body mounted. Again I had both and had no issues.
CTConrail Does anyone forsee any problems running cars with body mounts and truck mounts together?
Thanks Larry. Assuming where I may run into issues is mixing them with my Atlas/Accumate cars, which will be the last to be changed over as they are at the very least compatible with MT couplers. Need to focus on all the Rapidos first until finances allow me to swap out the Accumates. Assuming also that I SHOULD be ok running the body mounts on a 12" radius?
MTL is Cadillac, there is no better for N-Scale. It's nice to hear Larry did the homework. I have wondered these things myself.
I could only see a body mount coupler being a problem when it's on a extra-long car running a tighter radius. Being the ends of the car would be sticking out beyond the curve, a truck mounted coupler connecting to that body mount coupler probably wouldn't work so good.
I've spent quite a bit of money changing all my rolling stock over to MTL truck mounted short shank couplers. Just when it's time for me to start thinking about a break, now it's time to start thinking about MTL metal wheels. Cha ging cha ging.
I thought I would throw this out to you. By the time I came across this it was too late for me. I had already spent enough on my trucks and was not going back another way.
One of the members in my Railroad Club went with MTL trucks with no couplers and is putting them on his cars. Then he's purchasing Z scale body mount couplers and installing on the same cars. I haven't seen them yet but I heard from a few other members that they look like the cat's meow. Very prototypical looking.
Too late... No, shoulda, coulda, woulda for me
BRAKIE trwroute If switching is your thing, body mounting is the way to go. Not with truck mounted MT couplers they work quit well on ISL switching.I have several years experince with N Scale switching including with those old Rapido couplers. N Scale MT truck mounts isn't like HO X2F truck mounts..
trwroute If switching is your thing, body mounting is the way to go.
Larry, I'm pretty sure that I've done this just as long as you have, including using Rapido couplers.
I guess this just proves what works for one person, may not work for another.
Track fiddler One of the members in my Railroad Club went with MTL trucks with no couplers and is putting them on his cars. Then he's purchasing Z scale body mount couplers and installing on the same cars. I haven't seen them yet but I heard from a few other members that they look like the cat's meow. Very prototypical looking.
Yeah my autoracks, 89' flat cars and box cars will stay with truck mounted. My Radiuses aren't big enough. I had heard this about the z scale couplers that they were more prototypical looking and functioned well also. Assuming though that if went with z I would have to change ALL over? Or are Z and N couplers compatible? I know z will work on an N car but can you mix the 2?
Mix the two? This I don't know. My gut really doubts it but that doesn't count.
It would be nice to hear that they do mate. I would order some. I am itching to see if they look as good as everyone says they do.
Track fiddlerIt would be nice to hear that they do mate. I would order some. I am itching to see if they look as good as everyone says they do.
They will mate just like the Accumate and KD does in HO.There is no difference.
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I started N Scale in '68 (with a Atlas train set that had a RSC-2) when it was thought to be a novelty scale that would soon fade. I came up through the school of N Scale lessons learn both easy and hard~mostly hard.
Who among us old time N Scalers can forget the wonderful Atlas/Kato RS-3 of 1983? I opt for five through a mail order shop found in MR.
CTConrailYeah my autoracks, 89' flat cars and box cars will stay with truck mounted
A very wise decision especially on tight radius curves.
While Z scale couplers would be closer to scale, I find them a might to small for me even back in 2012.
BRAKIE Who among us old time N Scalers can forget the wonderful Atlas/Kato RS-3 of 1983? I opt for five through a mail order shop found in MR.
Got one!
I'm glad to hear you say the Z scale couplers were a bit too small for your liking. Just too small for eyes our age, is that it?
Maybe I don't have to regret not trying them after all.
Track fiddlerJust too small for eyes our age, is that it?
Exactly! I was 62 when I thought of trying Z Scale couplers but,looking at Z at a train show killed that idea.
I'm in a nursing home and will be here for quit some time so,I am thinking of building a 1' x 6' N Scale ISL.
I'm 70 and can still work with N..I guess I've always been a N Scaler even while dabbling in HO.
BRAKIE They will mate just like the Accumate and KD does in HO.There is no difference.
Wait so you are saying that MT Z and N scale couplers will mate? Hmm...while I do have somewhat of a tough enough time now and then with N scale MT couplers (and i am only in my 30s if this makes any of you guys feel better) Z scale couplers are tempting to try. At least I know I can slowly change them over instead of doing them all at once.
CTConrail Wait so you are saying that MT Z and N scale couplers will mate?
No..The Atlas N Scale Accumate coupler will couple to a MT coupler.
As an N scaler, I initially decided to go 100% body mount MTL. However, as I started down that path, I found:
1) Don't need 100% body mount MTL. Very expensive, lot of work, and it will not even work on all cars.
2) Body mount and talgo work fine together
3) Some brands work well together with MTL while others do not. Lots of info on this on the web. I find the MLT works OK with most when moving forward but can disconnect when backing. Some are better than others. You will need to experiment and see what works for you. Kato does not work well with MTL (or any other) in any situation. I have several large groups of cars such as a string of open and closed hoppers (I like long trains). Rather than change all to MTL, I kept the stock coupler on all but a few and made some of them into interface cars (MTL on one end and stock coupler on the other). This works since these cars almost always travel as a unit.
4) The main problem I find with talago is backing a long or heavy train especially thru a turnout. As noted earlier, when pushing a talago, it creates a side force on the trucks and wheels. Even backing up on straight track can be a problem with a long/heavy train but is a killer when you hit a curve or a turnout. In that case the wheel will catch and jump the track. All my long cars have body mount. I have 26 of the 89 ft autoracks that I pull in a unit. They came stock with MTL talago but I changed all to body mount and I can back that string of cars through a #6 Kato Unitrack turnout (most of the time).
5) Some long cars come stock with a MTL talago #1019. You can cut off the coupler portion and then body mount it in most cases and leave the truck/wheels in place.
6) Some cars are very difficult to body mount if they were not made for a body mount. Cannot just drill a hole and body mount a coupler because there is no good place to drill & mount. This is primarily true on cars with open frame at the ends such as a tank car or hoppers
7) Some cars have no room for the coupler box that will allow the wheels to make a curve when the truck rotates. Wheel will hit the box and derail.
8) I experimented with the MTL Z coupler. The coupler is smaller than N and it will also mate OK with the N. However, since the coupler end is smaller, it is more sensitive to up/down motion as the train moves and prone to uncoupling. Also, the Z mounting box is the same size as the N mounting box so you don't have any advantage in that regard. I was hoping to find that I could mount the Z coupler in spots where I had a problem mounting the N coupler but it did not turn out that way.
I think almost all MTL couplers are identical on the working end. The different part numbers reflect shank length, height, talago ot not, etc. #1015 is the most common. #1016 is identical but with different length shaft. Things such as shaft length, rise/drop, etc can vary by car. Keep a variety on hand to experiment with. I find the #1028 a major PITA to assemble. Initially, I had trouble assembeling the #1015 but it went a lot easier once I got the hang of it.
Hope this helps your decisions.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
A switching layout Larry... nice! Although I don't know what the I is in ISL.
Those can keep someone really occupied with operations. I suppose they're like any other layout. The better thought out in planning, the better operations. You really want to see all the couplers on a layout like that. Sounds like fun.
I'm sure the people are great where you are. Hopefully the ailment that brought you there doesn't keep you there too awfully long though
TF
Track fiddlerAlthough I don't know what that I is in ISL.
A ISL is a Industrial Switching Layout a term I picked up at a switching layout clinic.
BRAKIE CTConrail Wait so you are saying that MT Z and N scale couplers will mate? No..The Atlas N Scale Accumate coupler will couple to a MT coupler.
Ahh ok yes I knew these would mate fine, I think there was some confusion as I meant N and Z scale couplers. But Paul cleared that up.Thank you by the way Paul for all of that detailed info from your experience. Unfortunately I will not be able to body mount my 89' cars due to my minimum radius but still good to know I can make use of all the body mounts I have and not have any issues with mixing them with cars that have them truck mounted.
It makes sense that the Z couplers would be more sensitive as they are smaller but good to know they would mate with N. So basically the only advantage to Z is the fact they look more prototypical than N?
CTConrail Thank you by the way Paul for all of that detailed info from your experience.
I just came back to this thread and seen the boatload of information Paul shared here. It appears our last posts where one minute from each other that's why I missed it before. Thanks Paul, I do believe you saved me a considerable amount of research in trial and error.
You're right. I have a Kato coupler on a locomotive that often comes apart from my MT's. I thought it was just that one coupler. Maybe it is all of them then. I haven't had enough running time on anything to find out