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Kadee No. 5 Centering Springs as Wheel Wipers

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Kadee No. 5 Centering Springs as Wheel Wipers
Posted by cedarwoodron on Friday, December 14, 2018 7:10 PM

I tried "6 different ways to Sunday" to make my own wheel wipers for my Mantua slope back tender. The issue was that the Athearn metal wheels use a plastic/Delrin axle which necessitates a metal contact directly on the rear of each wheel. With metal wheels that have metal axles, I could easily wrap a piece of brass around each axle and run wire to where it needed to go. The contact with the axle was sufficient to route electricity in a steady manner. Not with the Athearn wheels...so I gave up my petty engineering attempts and dug out four Kadee No. 5 centering springs from my parts assortments- they worked fine.

I looked on the Kadee website and (yikes!) a dozen are 3.15- so a real bulk purchase (assuming some are used for their intended purpose in coupler boxes) of 6 dozen starts becoming a bit pricey - for a tiny piece of brass!

But- they made my wheel wiper improvement easier and I guess this alternate use is as good as I can hope for  

One thing I noticed on MR forums was that a heavy wire (it seems) was used in a solder connection from the wiper to wherever. I have had previous good results using the smaller gauge computer ribbon cable wire- very flexible and easy to fit into many small situations. 

Don't throw out that old desktop PC or printer before you open it up and cannibalize parts!

As for me, I know I will have a number of wiper jobs upcoming with my rehab projects ahead with old steam locomotives- so I guess I better bite the bullet and get several dozen of those centering springs!

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, December 14, 2018 7:26 PM

Yes, I have done that some years ago with Bachmann steamers that only pickup on one side on each tender truck. I used #30 DCC wire. I have seen your idea also.

I also did it with the Bachmann tender drives. Really improved them when I converted them to DCC.

Rich

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:04 AM

I use a Kadee spring when I need something heavy duty and big enough to be held down with a screw. I have epoxied a few on, also. Mostly I rig something from Tichy 0.010 or 0.015 phosphor bronze wire, as that stuff makes for a lighter touch/more limited drag.

cedarwoodron
One thing I noticed on MR forums was that a heavy wire (it seems) was used in a solder connection from the wiper to wherever. I have had previous good results using the smaller gauge computer ribbon cable wire- very flexible and easy to fit into many small situations.

Especially good is the wire from old-school wired mice. There used to be so many, now harder to find one laying around to snip the "tail" from.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:25 AM

You can make wheel wipers from .010" or .0125" phosphor bronze wire for a lot less money than the Kadee springs. These wheels have metal axles but the spoked hubs are plastic. The contact wires are looped around the screws. The wires could just as easily have been bent to rub the backs of the treads.

The wires look like this:

Tichy sells phosphor bronze wire.

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/Default.aspx

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by cedarwoodron on Saturday, December 15, 2018 3:59 AM

That is probably the one variation I did not try- but thanks for the photo- it will come in handy as an alternate method!

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by railandsail on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:16 AM

cedarwoodron

- but thanks for the photo- it will come in handy as an alternate method!

Cedarwoodron

 

Photos are always handy.

Whats that old saying, ...a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Posted by hminky on Saturday, December 15, 2018 8:00 AM

The KD springs are the easiest way.

Complete loco upgrade at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/

Have tried them all and the KDs are the best.

Harold

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Posted by Bernd on Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:03 AM

There have been many posts on different forums about making steam engines run better by adding wheel wipers. I have modified two Mantua engines with wheel wipers, a 0-4-0 and a 2-6-6-2 with aux. tender. The 0-4-0 now has 12 wheel pickup with a Lenz encoder and LED head light installed. it won't stall on an insulated frog.

The 2-6-6-2 is plain DC and has wheel wipers installed on both engine and aux tender giving it a 32 wheel pick.

Here's a link to those two projects. Click on the Step by Step Manuta Wheel Wipers link: http://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/R&D.html

Bernd

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:04 PM

Harold's method works very well, and was the method I used for several locomotives...

For some later projects, I used phosphor-bronze wire, and even though the stock pick-ups on the loco and tender are on opposite sides, added wiper wires to both sides of the drivers and tender trucks.   On the loco, this was partly to put equal sideways pressure on the individual wheelsets to prevent problems through curves and turnouts....

Wayne

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Posted by cedarwoodron on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:05 PM

Bernd- it was your upgrade of a Mantua 0-4-0 engine and tender that I found to be very helpful with mine right now- good to know you are still aroundBig Smile.

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:30 PM

Bernd
The 0-4-0 now has 12 wheel pickup

So does this HOn30 guy:

Here are the locomotive's wheel wipers. The wire looks to be rather thick but it isn't. The chassis is really small (N scale)

I shouldn't be bragging. The tender (now the gondola) came with all eight wheels picking up power. Thanks Bachmann.Thumbs Up

Dave

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Posted by railandsail on Saturday, December 15, 2018 9:09 PM

Thanks for all the pics guys. I'm going to have to make a copy of this subject thread for my files. Sometimes I forget where I saw really interesting material on the computer.

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Posted by Bernd on Sunday, December 16, 2018 9:22 AM

cedarwoodron

Bernd- it was your upgrade of a Mantua 0-4-0 engine and tender that I found to be very helpful with mine right now- good to know you are still around.

Cedarwoodron

 
Can't get rid of me that easy. Big Smile
 
I show up now and then when a subject interests me and I can be of some assistance. It's good to know that I've helped somebody with the material I post.
 
Beernd

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Sunday, December 16, 2018 2:26 PM

hon30critter

You can make wheel wipers from .010" or .0125" phosphor bronze wire for a lot less money than the Kadee springs. These wheels have metal axles but the spoked hubs are plastic. The contact wires are looped around the screws. The wires could just as easily have been bent to rub the backs of the treads.

The wires look like this:

Tichy sells phosphor bronze wire.

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/Default.aspx

Dave

 

Ihave a Bachmann 4-4-0 America that only has pickup from the tender wheels and I need to do this. Is the wire from Tichy already formed like this or do you have to bend it yourself? Thanks in advance.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, December 16, 2018 3:37 PM

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
Is the wire from Tichy already formed like this or do you have to bend it yourself? Thanks in advance.

Hi Lone Wolf,

The wire comes straight and you have to shape it. I have a small pair of round tipped pliers that make it easy to form the loop, but the loop doesn't have to be perfectly round. As long as it is held in place firmly by the screw it doesn't matter what shape the loop is. Bending the wires to the right shape takes a little practice but you will figure it out.

Can I ask what scale you are in? Also, if the tender already has pickups on all wheels, I'm assuming that you want to add pickups to the locomotive. Is that correct? If that is the case there are other ways to do it. If you look at doctorwayne's post above he has soldered the pickups to pieces of circuit board. In some cases he is using Kadee springs but you can do the same thing with the wire, just as he has done in the last photo. The circuit board pieces are easier to mount and adjust.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Monday, December 17, 2018 12:36 PM

hon30critter

 

 
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
Is the wire from Tichy already formed like this or do you have to bend it yourself? Thanks in advance.

 

Hi Lone Wolf,

The wire comes straight and you have to shape it. I have a small pair of round tipped pliers that make it easy to form the loop, but the loop doesn't have to be perfectly round. As long as it is held in place firmly by the screw it doesn't matter what shape the loop is. Bending the wires to the right shape takes a little practice but you will figure it out.

Can I ask what scale you are in? Also, if the tender already has pickups on all wheels, I'm assuming that you want to add pickups to the locomotive. Is that correct? If that is the case there are other ways to do it. If you look at doctorwayne's post above he has soldered the pickups to pieces of circuit board. In some cases he is using Kadee springs but you can do the same thing with the wire, just as he has done in the last photo. The circuit board pieces are easier to mount and adjust.

Dave

 

I have a couple of different HO scale locomotives that I want to upgrade. One is this IHC V&T Genoa

http://trainweb.org/lonewolfsantafe/genoa.jpg

and the other is this Bachmann Central Pacific Jupiter.

http://trainweb.org/lonewolfsantafe/cprr.jpg

and I plan on adding more old time steam engines to my roster. Currently they have pickup from one side of the tender and the opposite side of the lead wheels on the locomotive. So basically one side has 4 wheel pickup while the other side only has 2. The current from the front wheels flows through the frame and the drawbar to get back to the tender where the motor is located. The wipers are on the axels and the wheels are on one side are isolated.

So what I would like to do is make the tender have all wheel pickup.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, December 17, 2018 12:47 PM

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
So what I would like to do is make the tender have all wheel pickup.

I think you could get all wheel pick up on both the tender and the locomotive without too much difficulty.

For the locomotive, go back and have a look at doctorwayne's last locomotive picture where he has attached circuit board pieces with the phosphor bronze wires soldered to them. You can screw the circuit board pieces on as he has done, or you can epoxy them in place (unless the chassis is delrin or some other slippery plastic). Epoxying them makes them a bit harder to adjust but not much. Solder the wires to the boards first, and make sure there is no oil residue on the bottom of the engine.

The tender trucks can be done exactly like those in my picture.

You can get self tapping screws from these guys. Norton antivirus says the site is not secure but I have never had a problem with them:

https://www.microfasteners.com/

https://www.microfasteners.com/self-tapping-sheet-metal-and-wood-screws-thread-cutting-screws-for-plastic-phillips-ptd.html

Dave

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 12:22 PM

Thank you!

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 4:45 PM

hon30critter
....For the locomotive, go back and have a look at doctorwayne's last locomotive picture where he has attached circuit board pieces with the phosphor bronze wires soldered to them. You can screw the circuit board pieces on as he has done, or you can epoxy them in place (unless the chassis is delrin or some other slippery plastic).....

Just to clarify (and add a little more info), the circuit board pieces in that last photo were attached either with contact cement (for single clad board) or are double-sided material, and are therefore soldered to the loco's coverplate.  That loco (and coverplate) are brass, and it's not the same loco as shown in the first photo. 
The circuit board with cladding on both sides is especially useful when working with brass locos and tenders - simply tin the coverplate and tender bolsters, along with one side of the pre-cut circuit board material, then heat the brass pieces to "sweat" the circuit board in-place.
The first photo in that post does show screw-mounted circuit board, and it's held in place with plastic screws.

Also, I install the circuit board pieces first, then add the pick-up wipers (wires or modified Kadee springs).

 
If you wish to use screws to add circuit board material on metal coverplates, use either plastic screws (available from Kadee) or remove the copper cladding from the areas through which the screws will pass.  Contact cement or epoxy can also be used.
In some cases, especially with brass locomotives, you may be able to use the stock screws which retain the coverplate, but do remember to remove the copper cladding from where the screwheads will seat.

Wayne

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 10:28 PM

doctorwayne
Just to clarify (and add a little more info),

Hey Wayne,

Thanks for that.

Dave

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, December 20, 2020 8:14 AM

Guys,

Forgive me for re-booting this, as I'm wondering how did I miss this good  thread?!

When I "googled" for an alternative method for lighting the interiors of my HO passenger cars (Walthers and Rivarossi) this thread popped up.  Very good posts! I can definitely use one of the methods described to light the interiors of my cabooses.

I'd be grateful for additional tips and photos that would be helpful for passenger cars. My preference is for cool white LED lights on a strip (to imitate florescents) but at a low luminosity level.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, December 20, 2020 8:55 AM

AntonioFP45
My preference is for cool white LED lights on a strip (to imitate florescents) but at a low luminosity level.

My go-to choice here is the ESU LED lighting kit. I have installed a few and they have some pretty cool features. ESU offers a "yellow" and a "warm-white" variety. The white mimics fluorescents very well.

 ESU_light-strip by Edmund, on Flickr

Assuming you are using DCC? I installed one in a Penn-Central parlor car and assigned one group of lights to flicker like fixture with a bad ballast would do AND as I recall several old Penn Central coaches would have. Poor maintenance!

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/interior-lighting-sets/ntt-h0-digital/

I used one in an Amtrak Superliner and used the attached marker lights as well. One thing I did here was mount the board with the lights pointing up and bounced the light off the plated ceiling and it illuminates each room perfectly. Otherwise the LEDs would be aimed into the center aisle and all you would see is a glowing wall.

 

 Superliner_illumination by Edmund, on Flickr

 Superliner_tail by Edmund, on Flickr

 

You can easily add a plain capacitor or the ESU "super-cap" (I bought generic coin caps) for flicker elimination. I also have used some of these nifty ESU wheel wipers for current pickup.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/interior-lighting-sets/wheel-wipers-powerpack/

So you get a decoder, a strip of 11 SMD LEDs, a pair of red marker LEDs (that can be clipped off) for $20! What's not to like! You can turn on or off any of five groups of LEDs plus there is an additional output for a headlight or Mars light and one additional lighting output, say for a restroom or vestibule light.

 P-C_Parlor-marker-b by Edmund, on Flickr

I tucked the cap in the corridor where it can not be seen:

 P-C_Parlor-cap by Edmund, on Flickr

There is a pot on the board that you can dial in the brightness but you can also change the intensity using CVs in the programming of the decoder.

I use a clipped-off Sta-Kon terminal to push on to the little metal tabs on the Walthers cars.

Put on your dancing shoes:

One thing I do have to get around to is figuring out how to program the lights (functions) to be on at power-up. As it is I have programmed all the cars with ESU lighting to the same address so all the car lights come on when I select that address on a throttle but I'd like them to default "always on".

Here is the english version of the instruction sheet:

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/interiour-lighting-sets/

50708-50709

I bought mine at SBS4DCC  https://store.sbs4dcc.com/interiorlightingdecoders-2.aspx

 

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, December 21, 2020 11:43 PM

Ed,

Thank you for your information and excellent photos! Your Superliner looks sharp. I'll check your suggestion out as well as another made by a gentleman on the I.O Groups.  He suggested the lighting set up from this company:

spdaylight.com

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 7:03 AM

Are there some good ideas for electrical pick-ups that would make short wheel base locos such as the infamous 'docksiders' effectively longer to get over dead frogs?

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 12:21 PM

This fellow did it sometime ago with thin PC board and Kadee wipers.

https://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/

Look carefully at a couple of photos.

Rich

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 2:44 PM

railandsail

Are there some good ideas for electrical pick-ups that would make short wheel base locos such as the infamous 'docksiders' effectively longer to get over dead frogs?

 
Same procedure for this Bowser A-5 switcher that I built for a friend (and also added DCC to it).  Both the tender and loco got wipers on all wheels, so it would have to be a pretty-long unpowered frog to stall it...
 

Here's the underside of the tender...
 
 
...the top side of the tender's floor...
 
 
...and the tender floor with the non-sound decoder installed...
 
 
...and the little monster ready to go to its owner...
 
 
Wayne

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