A Couple of "Stupid" Questions

[Steven Holt]

^^^^ That water looks great! 

I'm starting my ballast tonight. Next step I'm thinking mountain structure? 

[mbinsewi]

Thank you Wayne

My biggest water feature.  My other water feature is the attempt at painting Lake Supior on the wall, as part of the backdrop.

Mike.

[doctorwayne]

mbinsewi

...The falls are made from a clear silicone caulk....

That's a pretty convincing looking waterfall, Mike!

I attempted to reply to this thread last night (around 5:00AM) but about halfway through composing my response, everything disappeared, so I went to bed.

My landforms are mostly done with Durabond 90 patching plaster over aluminum window screen (Durabond is available in several setting times, indicated by the number following the name - 90 minutes for the stuff I use).
While I've used casting resins for water in the past, I thought that perhaps the Durabond might be an alternative.

I started with my version of the Maitland River (the real one is in Ontario, and flows into Lake Huron, and while mine is also set in Ontario, it flows into Lake Erie - in fact, that's more-or-less the spot I chose to model).The riverbed is 3/8" sheathing plywood, supported by 1"x4" open grid framework 16"o/c...

I first sprayed the plywood with some "wet" water (tap water with a few drops of dish detergent added - the detergent breaks the surface tension of the water, allowing it to flow more readily).  This was done to prevent the plywood from drawing too much water out of the plaster. 
The bridge shown in the photo was removed as a single unit, built that way not only for the addition of the water, but also to facilitate cleaning later.
The bridge piers, incidentally, are also Durabond, cast in forms made using .060"sheet styrene (there's a how-to HERE).

Anyway, I mixed the plaster with just slightly more water than I use for the landforms, then used various drywall knives to level it as best I could, then added a few ripples and swirls to impart a sense of motion.  The long working time was useful to get the plaster around all of the bridge piers, and I then used a narrow drywall knife to tease-up some eddies of what I hoped would become a little "white water" around the piers...it settled several times, and I kept repeating the actions until the plaster began to set....you don't have much time to work when that begins.
I let the plaster sit for a day or two, just to see if it would crack, as it's only about 1/8" thick, then used ordinary flat interior latex house paint,applied with a 2" brush, to coat the "water's" surface.  I used the same "dirt" brown as I used on the landforms, but didn't thin it at all, as I wanted the colour to be very dense, and for the deeper water, a dark grey/green, which I also use to represent some background trees.  

As soon as the paint was dry to the touch, I used a 1/2" brush to apply a little Pollyscale Reefer White to the eddies around the piers, then allowed the paint to fully cure for a couple of days.
The next step was to apply clear, high gloss, water-based urethane, again using a 2" brush, to make the water look wet.  I followed to paint manufacturer's instructions closely, which suggested three coats, with four hours between coats.
I then re-installed the bridge, then ran some trains and took a few photos, including this one, which is pretty-much the same location as the photo above...

...a couple other views...

...and my favourite (with a little photoshop smoke and steam and some mist hanging over Lake Erie - done by my brother)...

I was pretty pleased with the results, so went ahead and did nearby Chippawa Creek, using the same materials and method.  Here's the creekbed before the rain...

...and a few views afterward...

...and from the air...

I have one more major river to do...

...and a lot of trees to build, too.

Wayne

 

 

[Steven Holt]

LITERALLY just finished laying my track and did my first test run! 

Worked out a few small kinks. 

TBH I really enjoyed laying the track and placing all the nails. It was very therapeutic. 

I will definitely need to purchase the second engine soon since it struggles up the 4% incline with 5 of the 11 cars. 

[Steven Holt]

BATMAN

 

 

This is perfect. Thank you!

 

Made my first mistake. Super frustrating and thought the track kit was off. Finally figured out I used the wrong angle in one spot. Funny how it threw everything off by such a small margine. If it was obvious I would have found it sooner. Luckily I was able to salvage the track bed I had already glued down. About 3/4 done laying track and waiting until I have everything lined up to glue it down moving forward. 

[BATMAN]

[Steven Holt]

As I go, I'm going to use this method http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/69465.aspx?page=1 to start making Redwoods. I figure I'll need to make them 4-5 1/2" to be to scale (I'm using N scale). 

As stated above, any input on tree making is appreciated. 

This project is turning out to be a slow burn, so I should have a good amount of practice by the time I'm ready to put in trees. 

 

 

[Steven Holt]

Finally started laying track. I'm using Woodland Scenics foam track bed underneith, but overtop my pink foam. About 25% down so far. Using nails to secure the track for now (in case I need to make adjustments). I'm laying large portions of track as i go to trace where the bed needs to go then giving it time to dry. 

 

Wish me luck!

[BigDaddy]

I added to my empty post on the previous page.

David Popp got some really nice effects for the Canadian Canyon with resins.  I think you would enjoy MRVP because they explain the basics as they build their project railroads. 

[mbinsewi]

Steven Holt

found this post in an old thread

Well there ya go! seems like that question got passed by, and you found the answer yourself.

Steven Holt

does anyone have an favorite methods for creating water? I want to add a lake to my layout.

I don't have any large areas of water, I guess this pond, where the falls drop into, and the river leading away from it is the biggest.

I did the pool with casting resin, first painting the bottom the way I want it, then pouring the resin.  The falls are made from a clear silicone caulk, I think it's called LEXEL ?  It comes in a clear tube.

There are lots of modelers on here with water features, and if your in luck, Dr. Wayne will show you his river, made with painting a plaster base and coating it with clear coat, no resin involved.

There are many others that will chime in.

Mike.

 

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

Depends

If you want ease of access and want to run trains by yourself, you can connect it anywhere in the open, or screw it to a control board mounted to the layout. If you want to be more discreet/realistic in train operations when visitors are around, I would suggest hiding the power pack under a scenic element big enough. In terms of connecting the power pack to the track, the most convienent way is to use a terminal rereailer section, which allows for easy electrical connections to be made. Or you can solder your - and + wires to the rails anywhere you want.

[Steven Holt]

Steven Holt

Does it matter where on the layout I connect my power supply? 

Using the Scenic Ridge track layout. 

 

 

found this post in an old thread 

 

Sperandeo

Hello "pearidge," 

If you use the Atlas track you can really put your feeder connections any place that's convenient. The Atlas turnouts are all internally insulated so you don't need to worry about feeding power to them from the wrong end. 

For running feeder wires and other wiring through the layout's foam base you can use a length of piano wire in an electric drill in place of a long drill bit. Run the drill at medium-slow speed and the wire will melt its way through the foam. (This works in wood too if you poke a starter hole with an awl and run the drill a little faster.) Pick a size of piano wire just a little larger in diameter than the insulated wire you're using, and you can drill holes right next to the rail that will be practically invisible later on. 

Good luck with your layout, 

Andy 

Andy Sperandeo 
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine

 

 

does anyone have an favorite methods for creating water? I want to add a lake to my layout.

[Eilif]

No stupid questions my friend.

Regarding era and scenery. I think it's best to take it one item at a time.  When looking at a certain type of structure, google that type, a year and possibly also an area or city.  You'll get plenty of examples of what was present at the time. The later your era the easier this is since so much of the built environment (especially masonry structures) is quite old. 

If you find a particular kit and want to know if it is appropriate then that's the kind of question that model railroad fans are always happy to help with. One thing you'll find about this hobby is that model railroaders LOVE to show how much they know about model railroading/history/etc.

It's good to do a bit of research for this kind of thing before you go on a buying spree of rolling stock too.  I wasn't quite so careful and ended up selling selling off nearly all my old-style tank cars and selling or chopping the walks off alot of boxcars after finding that they were all gone by the 80's/90's era of my layout.  Luckily I bought them at my typical cheapskate prices, but it would have been much more annoying if I had purchased higher end rolling stock

[BigDaddy]

Steven Holt

Using the Scenic Ridge track layout. 

Hmmm.  I remember a thead called

Questions about sectional track, rail joiners, and scale discrepancy

But I can't access any of the thread.  Maybe management deleted it.  There were problems getting the track to fit together to fit the plan.  I don't remember if there was a resolution.

If you told us whether you are running DC or DCC, I missed it.  In a large layout, with DCC, you want to connect to the miss in the middle of the layout to minimize voltage drop over distance.  DC is more forgiving, to an extent.

The gold standard is a feeder or a solder joint to every piece of rail as rail joiners can become unreliable with painting, ballasting or just time.  In DCC we do this with a larger wire called a bus (stranded) and feeders 22 ga solid from bus to track.

Yours is not a large layout.  I would not solder all the joiners, to allow for expansion or contraction and none of the turnouts.  A feeder every 6' of track should be adquate.

 

[Steven Holt]

Does it matter where on the layout I connect my power supply? 

Using the Scenic Ridge track layout. 

[Track fiddler]

Welcome to the Forum Steven.

I think as far as track goes, it's a matter of preference. If you stick with the quality name brands you should do okay.

As far as couplers go, I categorize it with rolling stock. I only buy Micro Trains. They are the trouble free Cadillac of N scale. This is the most important issue of the hobby if you don't want derailments. The other important issue is good track-laying.  I had cars that weren't MT,  I just bought MT trucks for them. Now they work just as good.

As far as era goes, MT has the era right on the back of their jewel case, no guessing games there.  As far as buildings and structure on your layout. I would just look at some pictures of the era you are modeling and get a feel for it.  Unless you're trying to model an exact replica of something,  I always say close enough is good enough.... Just have fun.

Happy Modeling.   Track Fiddler

 

PS   There are no stupid questions. The only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked

[Steven Holt]

Thanks guys, I purchased a basic power pack (Athearn Trainpak) on amazon along with atlas wires that link into the track (not sure what they are called offhand). I just made a new thread stating I purchased the California Zypher lastnight. Very excited to get the track laid. I'll definitely check out some videos on tree making. Thanks for the input.

[BRAKIE]

NeO6874

Couplers => Last I looked, N scale still kinda defaulted to whatever the N scale variation of "Horn-Hook" couplers was (rather than say Microtrains knuckles).

The  MT coupler is the standard coupler of choice by serious  N Scalers as is body mounted couplers and has been for several years..

Atlas locomotives work well together in DC as does the Walthers N Scale former Life Like P2K line..

[mbinsewi]

Checking Kato's web site,  They have a power pack they call the SX.

vhttp://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/accessories.html

I'm not sure how it compares with other power packs, or how much "power" your going to need.

And for redwoods, I'd check videos, maybe do a search for N scale redwoods?  There's got be stuff out there.  Buying in bulk probably won't happen unless you build your own.

So anyway, good for you, your getting started!

That California Zephyr looks nice!

Mike.

 

[Steven Holt]

UPDATE 

 

So, I purchased the Atlas "scenic ridge track pack" to take the guess work out of a layout. I will be doing the rest of the layout from scratch.

I put together a 3'x6' table top with plywood and table legs. I've ordered some random tools (foam glue, hot wire cutter, a few incline foam pieces). I'm planning on picking up some of the pink/purple foam from Home Depot to use for the layout. So it looks like i could be laying track this week!

I had my heart set on an older style steam engine but I think I'm going to go in the opposite direction and pick up the Kato California Zypher. 

Any suggestions on a power supply?? 

I've also decided to keep the stuctures few and far between on my layout and focus on trees and greenery. I really would like to create a Redwood forest on the mountain but the only ones I've found are about $20 for a 3 pack. 

Any suggestions on buying bulk redwoods or a good turoial for making my own? 

[Steven Holt]

Thanks for all of the great responses! I had some issues logging in that first week of membership and decided to try again this afternoon. I hope it's not "taboo" but i ended up purchasing the Atlas N scale Scenic Ridge Track pack since I do like the layout and it's about the size I had in mind. Going to start on setting up my base next week. I like the videos I've seen using foam, so I'm going to make a tabletop with plywood and then place the foam on top.

[Steven Holt]

You guys rock! I like plans Plan Name: 2x40031 and Plan Name: 78x36_07 on this page http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm Any idea how i would figure out the grading? Or, will that require some trial and error?

[snjroy]

About tools:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/272077/3094484.aspx#3094484

I usually buy when needed, and most tools are available in good hardware stores. All "micro" hand tools to work on wood/plastic/metals usually find a purpose in the train room... Safety goggles and mask should probably come first.

Simon

[Tinplate Toddler]

I am a bit partial to N scale Kato Unitrack, as it is a very reliable track system. It´s got code 80 rail and has a molded-on plastic roadbed, which doesn´t look thrilling at all, but can be made looking great with just a little bit of effort.

Kato offers a great variety of switches and radii, although curved turnouts are  still missing. MR´s 2010 project layout "The Salt LAke Route" used Kato Unitrack.

 

[dstarr]

Era correctness.  Your best bet is photographs.  Google will find a lot of 'em.  There is very little color available before 1945, so for earlier periods you have to guess at colors.  Old magazines  are good sources, and you know the latest date of any photograph from the date on the magazine cover.  Automobiles are distinctive.  Back in the good old days, when Detroit employed stylists, most people could tell the year of a car with just one glance.  Many can still do that with model cars. Buildings last for ever, so a modern railroad will run past buildings that may date back to the Civil War.  Certain building styles, white glazed brick gas stations and McDonald's Golden Arches for example, have definite dates.  The white glazed brick gas stations were replaced with less conspicuous red brick in the 1970's.  McDonald's dropped the Golden Arches in the 1980's.  

    I am in HO, so I don't know N track types that well.  In HO, track that is just rails and ties intermates.  Track with a plastic ballast/roadbed attached won't mate up without some kludging around.  I would expect N to be the same, but I don't really know.  In HO, code  100 rail is common and oversized.  Code 83 is closer to scale.  Painted rail brown, code 100 rail looks a lot smaller than it does left bright nickel silver.  If the same choice exists in N, I would tend toward the larger rail size and paint the rails. 

"Track Planning for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong is invaluable when you are planning and building a layout.  An around the walls layout will give you more layout area and less aisle area.  You can only reach in 2 maybe 2 and a half feet to lay track, rerail trains, fix anything.  Which limits the width of a tabletop layout to 5 maybe 6 feet.  If you have straight runs of track going down the edge of your benchwork, the line of the track emphasises the edge of the benchwork.  Try a few gentle curves to break that up.  A nice deeo river gorge can be spanned with an impressive bridge.  You don't have to do the bridge first, just leave a place for the river gorge in your plan and do it later. 

[Steven Holt]

Wow... That you all for the great responses!!! I've watched a few youtube videos since yesterday and I like the idea of the foam paneling to create the landscape. I've also picket out a few layouts I like. Using a door seems intriguing as well, especially since I've found layouts specifically deigned for those standard dimensions. Are there any "Essential" tool kits you would recommend to get started? Or, would you recommend just picking up items as the need presents itself? Does anyone have a preferred affordable track brand they would recommend?

[chutton01]

Hopefully you've made the rounds of YouTube channels such as Luke Towen, Kathy Millatt (I think she does project for MRVP as well), Everett Junction, Marklin of Sweden, heck even the Terrain Tutor (war gaming, but it works), and many others as they demonstrate how making great scenery can be straight forward (if a bit tedious). The common theme with this lot is foamboard (insulating slabs) used as the scenic base, so maybe splurging for a wire foam cutter and some foamboard wouldn't be a bad idea.

ROBERT PETRICK

For me, automobiles on the layout are the clearest indication of era/date. 

. During the far-off space years of the 1990s (e.g. Space 1999), they cranked out hundreds of volumes of Star Trek novels based on all the series at the time.  I recall one concerning the first mission of Spock and Kirk where Spock gets sent back in time to Earth (time-travel in Star Trek? Say it ain't so) around the mid/late 2000s (IIRC), and after initially denying to himself he was stranded in the past, come to grip with that after seeing "all the antique vehicles passing by with century-old music playing out the windows".

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

    For the scenery features that you want you will be best off building an layout that the frame is “open grid” or cookie cutter” as apposed to being on a flat piece of plywood. Either of these styles will allow you to have a bridge and a mountain by having the scenery elevation change while the track has little or now change of elevation.
    A mountain with a tunnel which is next to a bridge can be on one side of the layout while the town and industry can be on the other side. Skip the street car because that is a whole other layout. Depending on if you want to walk all around the layout like it's a table or just view it from one side will help you decide where to put the mountain and the town. If you are going to walk around all of the table then the mountain can be a view block in the center. If it is going to be up against a wall then the mountain shold be up against the wall.
    Anyway don't worry about getting it right the first time. Most people build several layouts with each one getting better than the last.

[snjroy]

Hi there. There are few sites out there that provide track plan databases. When I drew up my plan, I really liked going through track plan books, like "101 more track plans for model railroaders". The HO plans can be easily converted to N by dividing everything by half. I find that I "think more" when going slowly through the pages of a book than looking at a screen, but maybe that's just me. I also find that a track plan that also provides details about mountains and structures is more inspiring than just track. You might think about starting small (2 X 4) to get things started and practice. I started with an under-the-tree layout, and learned tons just from that experience...

Simon