Hi all,
Curiosity question here. I noticed in the last Walthers flyer that came out (Oct. ’18) that there is now a Prop 65 lead warning for Bachmann locos. My question is, why is it just Bachmann? Have all the other manufacturers started using silver only solder or something? Just wondering...not trying to hash out CA’s public safety regs.
hi,
Bachmann has been a "global" player for many years. That's probably why they install radio suppression (RF) chokes on all their motor circuits.
In order to sell your products to a world-wide market you have to be compliant with many different regulations. Digitrax has been in the same situation with their duplex throttles. Ones made for North America can not be sold in Europe, for instance.
RoHS compliance is a big deal, too.
http://www.rohsguide.com/
Lead free components and such.
Union Pacific 428My question is, why is it just Bachmann?
I have seen the warning on other manufacturers' products. Maybe smaller manufacturers haven't put so much effort into compliance but if you intend to sell your product in a greater market you are going to have to comply with health and environment regulations.
Sometimes dangerous chemicals or metals find their way into products, either intentionally or not, cadmium in plated toys, lead paint also in toys, melamine in baby formula, etc.
Some of my friends work in industries that have to run compliance tests on many of their products intended for export and be able to certify the sources for ALL the components used in the production.
Actually, I have become "sticker-numb" and I simply peel off or throw away the warning label since, it seems, everything has a Prop 65 label on it. Even the plywood I used for my layout causes cancer!
Plywood_warning by Edmund, on Flickr
https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/general-info/proposition-65-plain-language
There's even a signs on the end doors of Amtrak passenger cars stating that by riding this train you may be exposed to diesel exhaust fumes, a known carcinogen, and you may be at risk.
Hope that helps, Ed
If they haven't I'm sure they'll be "coerced" to eventually. Just another blanket implication because of a knee-jerk reaction, IMO...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The Digitrax throttle thing is because of which channels are alloowed in the 2.4GHz band, the same ones allowed in the US are not allowed in Europe. it has nothing to do with RoHS.
As for lead in locos - don't eat it or lick it and there's really no danger. It's still the most affordable denisty per volume way to add weight to things.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker As for lead in locos - don't eat it or lick it and there's really no danger. It's still the most affordable denisty per volume way to add weight to things.
Totally agree, Randy.
rrinker2.4GHz band, the same ones allowed in the US are not allowed in Europe. it has nothing to do with RoHS.
Never said it did.
gmpullmanRoHS compliance is a big deal, too.
In other words, beside Proposition 65, RoHS is yet another regulation that has to be complied with for any manufacturer that exports.
I just used it as an example without getting into FCC regs and EU regs. so they have to sell a different product for export than the one used in North America.
I really should proof-read my posts better,
Or like many others here lately, simply not reply at all.
I am truly sorry for being so misleading.
Ed
tstage rrinker As for lead in locos - don't eat it or lick it and there's really no danger. It's still the most affordable denisty per volume way to add weight to things. Totally agree, Randy.
Wait, you mean we're not supposed to eat the train-candy?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Only if you're lead to do it, Dan...
The title had me concerned that the flyer might be hazardous. Just to be sure I'll get some latex gloves. Oh, wait...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/DUPONT-Encapsulated-Training-Suit-Lvl-A-Rear-L-TK587SLYLG000100/133955117?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1122&adid=22222222228160075200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=271518230767&wl4=pla-451901941836&wl5=1026651&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=101593696&wl11=online&wl12=133955117&wl13=&veh=sem
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
peahrens The title had me concerned that the flyer might be hazardous. Just to be sure I'll get some latex gloves. Oh, wait... https://www.walmart.com/ip/DUPONT-Encapsulated-Training-Suit-Lvl-A-Rear-L-TK587SLYLG000100/133955117?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1122&adid=22222222228160075200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=271518230767&wl4=pla-451901941836&wl5=1026651&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=101593696&wl11=online&wl12=133955117&wl13=&veh=sem
Iam sure the suit as atleast a dozen warning lbels.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
peahrensThe title had me concerned that the flyer might be hazardous. Just to be sure I'll get some latex gloves. Oh, wait...
Well, if you are allergic to latex, you might appreciate the warning.
I realize that it's great fun to poke at the California labeling requirements, but given the severe hazardous effects of exposure to lead, you really need to be careful handling it. Especially if you are cutting it or soldering with it.
Given the consumer desire for lowest price, manufacturers cut costs with some not so safe materials. At least a warning lets you know to be careful.
rrinkerAs for lead in locos - don't eat it or lick it and there's really no danger. It's still the most affordable denisty per volume way to add weight to things.
What is the metal in typical loco weights? It's too hard to be pure lead, I'm guessing but is it a mixture? Maybe I should not take a grinder to it.
Quick google indicates it'd probably be either zinc or antimony for making "hard" lead.
Thanks everyone for the interesting commentary. So have the other manufacturers somehow gotten out of labeling requirements, or are Bachmanns (being cheapest) the only ones with significant amounts of lead in them?
God help model train hobbyist's if you live in California, notorious for banning such items....politics bad "JUJU"
Rangerover1944God help model train hobbyist's if you live in California, notorious for banning such items
False. Some of the best modelers in the world live in California and have no trouble building fantastic layouts. Which product, specifically, do you think is banned in California that is available in other US states?
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
If you go without the Prop 65 lead warning you are saying that there is absolutely zero lead. As in you aren't going to find lead no matter what lab you take our product to. Some find it easier to just post the warning and be done with it.
Lee
cuyamaWhich product, specifically, do you think is banned in California that is available in other US states?
I don't know if they are banned in California, but I do remember looking at the websites of some vendors which say they won't ship paint to California.
maxmanI don't know if they are banned in California, but I do remember looking at the websites of some vendors which say they won't ship paint to California.
Every brand of model paint seems to be available in California, as well as a wide variety of general spray paint products such as Krylon.
Vague hearsay is rampant on the Internet -- but quantity of claims does not equate to accuracy.
I'm not an expert on anything, but the CA law seems pretty involved, so I think some folks, like Bachmann, just labeled everything rather than go through every single item in their catalog to see where it applies.
Along those lines, styrene is listed as a carginogen, but what we refer to as styrene is actually polystyrene and is not listed. Styrene is the liquid chemical used to make plastic. So an all plastic kit wouldn't have to be listed. But would that change if the parts were painted? I don't know. That might be why Bachmann decided to label everything. Otherwise, it seems hard to believe that a Plasticville kit would have to listed.
Jim
In the world of lawsuits, it is better to lable. All wise landlords have the prop 65 lable on their buildings.
In this area, a company that has nuts in some of their food products have taken to labelling all products from that factory as perhaps containing nuts.
This prevents lawsuits, but doesn"t help people with food allergies make informed choices.
Dave
There are things that can't be sold in California but most things can be brought in. That happens in the trades some, but not on a hobby level but they did try to ban Dullcoat once (they found out that a blackmarket was developing before the idea was made law so the idea was scrapped).
One thing that's hilarious about the Prop 65 requirement is that here in California, a lot of restaurants have to post a Prop 65 sign saying that items in the restaurant, including the food, have been known to cause cancer.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
WARNING - BREATHING IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH
Conclusive government studies show that everyone who breathes eventually dies.
Many years ago there was a study using Canadian rats, which yielded a decisive scientific conclusion: If you give a rat 500 gallons of milk a day...he'll explode.
This thread is full of misinformation and has nearly nothing to do with trains.
cuyama This thread is full of misinformation and has nearly nothing to do with trains.
Well, that may be true, but based on what I know to be fact, I'm glad I don't live or work in California.
Tomorrow, I will be doing restoration work on leaded glass sidelites and transom on a house built in 1863. No hazmat suit, no respirator, no latex gloves, oh my!
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI'm glad I don't live or work in California.
I'm glad I don't live in Flint, Michigan, either.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/chemical-study-ground-zero-house-flint-water-crisis-180962030/
Happy Modeling, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRAL cuyama This thread is full of misinformation and has nearly nothing to do with trains. Well, that may be true, but based on what I know to be fact, I'm glad I don't live or work in California. Tomorrow, I will be doing restoration work on leaded glass sidelites and transom on a house built in 1863. No hazmat suit, no respirator, no latex gloves, oh my! Sheldon