Let me start by saying I'm still a DC guy. I have a small volume of DCC ready locomotives. I recently listened to a youtube video with this system. Wow !
I like the idea of this Proto Throttle and trying to find a DCC system to start with.
You guys who've been in the DCC game for a while.
Is this Proto Throttle for beginner DCC ? Is it highly technical ? Is it worth the coin ?
Patrick
Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb
Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.
Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.
It actually seems pretty simple, however it is really only for diesel. I spoke to them and they told me it isn't desigened for steam. So if your engines are diesel give it a try although it is a bit pricey
It's a clever idea but doesn't look ergonomic to me. I would rather spend my time and money making my layout more realistic, than that throttle. Other people like running their trains with smart phones and tablets.
For some people, even though it is not a real loco control stand, it gives the illusion of it and that may float their boat. You may be one of those. I'd get a DCC system first and see how I liked the controls before springing for that throttle.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Personally I prefer using a dedicated throttle for running trains. But I haven't tried using my phone yet.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Steven,
The ProtoThrottle is not a app for your cellphone but a dedicated throttle that uses buttons, toggle switches, and rotary switches to operate the bell, horn, throttle, and lights:
It mimicks the controls you would typical find in a diesel cab.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Man, that thing looks huge. Neat, but huge...
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
I've never used one and don't know a ton about it, but here's what I've gathered from all the fanfare I've seen recently...
From what I understand, they only operate on DCC because what it does requires DCC to make it work. (Not sure if they plan to come out with a DC version.) The selling point is that using it is supposed to closely mimic the full-size version better than any other control interface on the market. So it's not so much of a case of "look what DCC has to offer", but "look how authentic your train running experience can be."
From what I understand, that experience goes beyond the simple shape and configuration of the levers. It has something to do with the way the controls use DCC to make the trains move, as well as how the controls physically "feel" when you use them. From what I've seen, those who are really in to operations rave about it. Supposedly it forces you to think and operate a train like a real engineer would operate the full-size version. It apparently takes your operations to a whole new level of train-running nirvana, from simply shuffling models around a layout to immersing you in the operating environment... or so they say.
I would liken it to the difference between playing a car-racing video game with a standard XBox controller versus using one of those desktop steering wheel units with the built-in shift lever and foot pedals.
Bottom line, I think the decision point is not DC vs DCC, but rather how much you are into "operational fidelity" and value that authentic operational experience. For me personally, I'm satisfied using my Digitrax Zephyr or smart phone controller. For those who want something closer to the real thing, the Protothrottle just may be the ticket.
And cost is a major factor, of course. If the price ever drops below $100 (not likely), I might think about it.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
I can think of other things to spend 600$ on. I am not hung up on prototypical diesel cab operation.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
If you are truly a novice modeler, there are a lot of FAR MORE IMPORTANT modeling tools and materials you will need and can get for $600!
Hornblower
I never knew the price until now. Steve move this thread to the "This hobby is too expensive" thread.
I have been using DCC for years. If I was starting from DC I would be purchasing a new system, it would be RailPro. The only things you would need to buy is the hand controller and decoders. Your present DC power supply will work fine. No boosters, no CVs, no buying more equipment to go to radio control. RailPro is radio control out of the box.
You could look here or here for prices. A lot cheaper than $600.
stokesdaFrom what I understand, they only operate on DCC because what it does requires DCC to make it work. (Not sure if they plan to come out with a DC version.)
I rather doubt it since as you pointed out, it requires DCC to work, there is no "throttle" in the controller, its just an interface with the DCC system.
The selling point is that using it is supposed to closely mimic the full-size version better than any other control interface on the market. So it's not so much of a case of "look what DCC has to offer", but "look how authentic your train running experience can be."
Correct. It also requires changing the momentum settings on your engine. If you open the throttle wide open it should take a while for it to speed up. If you shut off the throttle the engine will more or less not reduce speed quickly, it will just roll along at the same speed. If you want to stop it, you need to apply the brake. Then depending on how much brake you apply the engine/train slows down and stops.
If somebody gets one, to really appreciate it, they will also have to learn a bit about how a real engineer uses the train controls.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I recently saw a post from a couple of layoouts where they had everyone operate with Proto Throttles. It's not exactly huge, and some people were using it with one hand. Plus they come with a lanyard so you don;t have to worry about dropping it.
Sure looks like a lot of fun to use, after watching some videos. $600 worth of fun? I dunnoo. I would say this is not something you should go out and pick up as a novice model railroader though.
Don't forget, since for whatever design reason they went with a zigbee radio module in the unit, you need the actual ProtoThrottle plus one of the base units, there is one for NCE and Lenz and another for Digitrax, which ALSO needs the LNWI WiFi interface.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I picked one up at the NMRA convention in KC. I am still learning some things about it but overall I really like the ProtoThrottle. In my case, running a small-ish HO switching layout, it adds a layer of realism that I am enjoying. I would say it's not for the novice, however.
Having operated 1:1 locomotives for a short time helped me adapt to it pretty easily.
As someone mentioned to help get the proper effect it is best to set CVs to allow for more momentum. As a start I set CV3 to 125 and CV4 to 255, then tweaked others as I went along. That, and having sound, really makes you feel that you are operating something with mass.
tstage Steven, The ProtoThrottle is not a app for your cellphone but a dedicated throttle that uses buttons, toggle switches, and rotary switches to operate the bell, horn, throttle, and lights: It mimicks the controls you would typical find in a diesel cab. Tom
I am aware that ProtoThrottle is not a cellphone app but a separate throttle.
dragonriversteelIs it worth the coin ?
In a word, no. This gizmo, IMO, is without a doubt the goofiest thing ever created in the hobby - strictly for the "more dollars than sense" crowd.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
As much as I like that throttle I would need to think long and hard before shelling out $600.00 for a fancy DCC throttle.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
swoodnj It adds a layer of realism that I am enjoying. I would say it's not for the novice, however.
It adds a layer of realism that I am enjoying. I would say it's not for the novice, however.
Not the majority of the folks here based on the responses here.
The layer of realism factor seems to be a major like to folks on another forum where there has been a great deal of postive feedback. The cost is listed as $482 on ISE website.
That is the big pull for some of the proponents. This throttle is not aimedat many in the general hobby gjenre thus all the it's not worth it comments.
In short, The Proto throttle is probably not worth the coin for a novice. But that is probably true for a lot of pricey things; it's most likely going to be appreciated by a certain group of experienced diesel fans.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Thank you all for your insight & response.
Yup,didn't realize it was that pricey or complected. Maybe after a few years of experience working with DCC first.
Thanks guys.
Its not worth it. You can get similar buttons and switches on Bachmann train apps or even lego ones. I am not sure how accurate it is, but if you want to make you existing throttle more realistic, you can take it apart and add some toggles in place of buttons, or just take a side of a cereal box, paint it a "realistic" grey, and redecorate your throttle with it, cutting holes for each button. Its practically free, and, its customizable!!!
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
While this one doesn't have the prototypical appearance of the one under discussion (I know of a modeller who built a full-size simulation of a prototypical control stand, and uses it to control his trains), it's a very nicely-engineered way of controlling DC-powered trains. A friend gave me two of these....
You can set the throttle to whatever position you wish, and the train will start, and then gain speed at a realistic rate, reaching whatever speed you've pre-selected. If you wish to slow, no need to touch the throttle, but a simple application of the brakes will do the trick...when the handle is returned to "OFF", the train will gradually return to its original speed setting. If you wish to stop, apply the brake until that occurs, and when you wish to procede, release the brakes, and the train will gradually return to its original setting. You can, of course, use the throttle for speed control, too.
This controller is best used for running through trains, rather than switching activities, in my opinion. I'm not normally a fan of momentum effects, but these are the best I've seen in DC.
My thought was to put it on a neck-strap, much like those used in remote-controlled ground switching operations, but the throttle does not have enough "oomph" to run multiple locomotives or to power heavy trains, especially on the many grades on my layout.Every once in a while, though, I'll plug it in and enjoy just running a train.
Wayne
I wouldn't expect much interest in thd Proto Throttle here in this crowd so I'm not surprised at all the negative comments here. Personally I'd like to try it out when I get a layout up and running. These are probably not a mass produced hence the higher cost.
riogrande5761I wouldn't expect much interest in thd Proto Throttle here in this crowd so I'm not surprised at all the negative comments here. Personally I'd like to try it out when I get a layout up and running.
I began a thread almost three years ago after borrowing a friend's "Train Driver" throttle console and wondered about adapting it to DCC use.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/254524/2846858.aspx
https://tinyurl.com/ybr5rt8x
{I see the forum software is up to its usual tricks. Click the tinyurl link, please.}
Of course, in that thread some of the responses were "why don't you like your Digitrax throttles? They're just fine" but that wasn't exactly my intention. Like the ProtoThrottle, my intent was to use it along with an OEM throttle during operations.
I like the idea of realistic controls especially for switching moves. No, it wouldn't be my primary throttle but it would be one of those "fun-to-have" luxuries.
I'm not one of those "early adopter" types. I thought I'd give the first version some time and see if a second or third run comes along. I'd probably get one at that time.
Cheers, Ed
riogrande5761 In short, The Proto throttle is probably not worth the coin for a novice. But that is probably true for a lot of pricey things; it's most likely going to be appreciated by a certain group of experienced diesel fans.
Very well put, it does have niche appeal. I hope it has enough appeal to keep the development going. The guys behind it are awesome people, it was a pleasure to spend some time with them at the NMRA.
carl425 In a word, no. This gizmo, IMO, is without a doubt the goofiest thing ever created in the hobby - strictly for the "more dollars than sense" crowd.
Gotta say, this made me laugh. Thanks! Lol
i think the price of a proto throttle pays for several interesting features:
it replaces the simple minded speed controller with separate throttle and brake controls (imagine if you took you foot off the gas pedal on your car caused it to come to a screeching halt)
it has unique buttons instead of similar looking buttons for direction, brake, sounds and lights
it obviously has prototypical looking controls
it's wireless
there's no reason common DCC controllers couldn't separate throttle and brake for controlling speed, but would need to be redesigned (maybe a DIYer)
but common DCC controllers need a numeric keypad as well as select/enter buttons for setting loco address which somewhat forces reusing buttons for different purposes.
i think it would be nicer to have a locomotive controller that looks less like a TV remote and more like something used on a RR but not for $600.
tstage It mimicks the controls you would typical find in a diesel cab. Tom
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
As long as their sale price covers the cost of the materials, assembly, packaging, and some profit to the company, they should have no problem sticking around.
It clearly isn't for everyone, but this interests me a whole lot more than some fancy touch screen LCD device. With no layout currently, I'm not going to buy one tomorrow, but I do want to get one eventually.
In a word, yes! I think these are really clever and I am considering building my next layout to accomodate diesels just so I can get one. Having operated a real diesel. I can see how much more realistic operations would be with one of these throttles.
I think if I was building a small switching layout with only a first generation EMD diesel for motive power, like Model Railroader's Tar Branch project layout, this would be ideal. It really looks like the control stand from an early diesel.
.
What do I know, I still use an MRC Control Master XI for my trains!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The throttle and reverser resemble what you'd get on a real AAR control stand, but where are the automatic and independent brakes? Not to mention the dynamic handle...
It looks nifty in a pic, but might be a drag to carry around with you around the layout.
I prefer using the touchpad on my Samsung Galaxy player running the Roco z21 app. It has all the function buttons with icons, a pic of whatever loco you've got onscreen, and it's fully customizable.