In the Coldwater Layout thread, I asked the question about why model the US if you live somewhere else. Bear and Ulrich tell me it is both available and popular.
How available is it?
We have numerous threads lamenting the demise of the local hobby store. In a lot of places, there is no train store withing 100 miles or more. The generic hobby store has only a tiny amount of MR product. There are a couple large online retailers, and a lot more smaller ones. We don't have to deal with overseas shipments, customs or language barriers.
Those of you in Asia, Europe, South America, Australia, (anyone in Antarctica?) where do you buy your trains? What are the challenges in modeling the US from another country?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Buying US prototype model trains is no issue at all in Europe - there are a number of online retailers in Europe specializing in US trains. Ordering directly in the US imposes hardly a problem, however it does take some time for the order to clear customs. I don´t see a language barrier, as most Europeans have a fairly good working knowledge of the English language.
What, IMHO, imposes a challenge is to develop a feeling for "the lay of the land" if you have never been to the States or Canada. While the scenery of northeastern US is comparable to scenery you will encounter in Europe (in various places, though), the arid regions of the Southwest lack any European counterpart. However, Google (and other search engines) are the modeler´s friend, as there are tons of pictures available.
There are differences how railroads operate. European railroads have a focus on passenger services, followed by unit trains. The typical local train, calling at every stop, picking up freight cars or dropping them, is largely a thing of the past. Most European-style layouts reflect that - focal point of the layout is usually or more or less large train station, with lots of arrivals and departures being "staged". Of course,, there is always the exemption to the rule.
Magazines like MR and forums like this one help the "foreign" modeler to learn about US prototype operation and facilitate the change in attitude - from railfanning to operating.
I´d like to take this thread as an opportunity to pay my respect to the late Wolfgang Dudler of Germany. NMRA Master Model Railroader (# 452). Wolfgang passed away some years ago, but his web page is still up and worth to visit!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
I can only speak for jolly old England, where my wife was born and raised. Last time we were over in her home area we visited a hobbyist, Jon Grant, who used to frequent MR forums and we also visited a model railroad clube in Sunderland UK, up near Newcastle.
In both instances we saw a majority US type trains being modeled. Jon Grant has dispayed his work here which included Sweethome Alabama and Sweethome Chicago. He also had a Virginian layout that was featured in MR magazine, another US based layout. He had one UK based layout in his basement with the rest as well but US dominated by far.
The Sunderland clube was similar; mostly US based layouts including a G scale layout all US rolling stock. A number of the members had taken Railfanning trips to the US as well. One of them had imported a Cadillac Escalade left hand drive and gave me and my wife a ride home - quite a beast in a country dominated by small cars!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
In Australia there are lots of US Railroads being modelled. American brands are available from almost every Model train and hobby shop.
The main reason is that Australian models have been difficult to obtain at reasonable prices until recent years, and they are still more expensive than US Models.
Crikey, Australian railways were state based, (only 6 states) and each state used a different gauge track. Our population was much lower (we just cracked 25 million last week) so economies of mass producton were non existant and a manufacturer could not expect to sell anywhere near the number of models of one loco or piece of rolling stock that the US market could. So us baby boomers modelled what we could buy at reasonable prices from UK, Europe or USA. The fact that we also watched American TV shows and adopted much of your music meant we had a much better knowledge of the USA than Americans had of Australia.
Most of my trains are from the USA and I purchase from local train shops and from US mail order. I don't model one particular railroad, and I'm not alone with that. But lots of clubs do model a specific prototype road and restrict their layouts to that prototype. Researching US railroads or any overseas railway is not difficult with Dr Google providing lots of information. Oh yes 100 miles is nothing to an Aussie, and there is no language barrier. Hope that answers your question.
cheers Mate
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
Funny thing is, I own one prototype locomotive operating manual, and it's for an Australian loco. Built by GE so basically it's a Dash 8 under the hood. Friend of mine who moved to the US managed to aquire it, it was a database programmer for one of the big mining companies and somehow managed to have this and sent it to me.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
BigDaddyHow available is it?
I would say it is very available, just as European models are in plentiful supply to North American residents. Locally I have Eurohobbies and Britannia hobbies that I buy generic stuff at such as static grass or anything else that works regardless of geography or time frame. Both these places are very well stocked and have great websites. Both have mostly gone to the mailorder business mainly as that is where the business has gone.
I have PWRS close to where I live and know for a fact that their shipments to Europe or Asia on some days dwarf what goes out to the North American market.
I once found the "Walthers Car Float Apron" for somebody on this forum that was desperate for one and kept asking if anyone knew of one. I found one online at a shop in Germany and posted it for him on his thread. His response was "I don't but anything outside the U.S. I found that bizarre.
There is a large "G scale" dealer near us and I suggested it to an Austrailian modeler looking for an item. He now buys almost everything from this place and has thanked me profusely for telling him about the place.
My wife bought some decorative outside lights a few years ago that were about $80.00 each at the time. Unfortunately, over the years a couple of hockey pucks found them and two of them needed replacing. We found the identical lights in China for $6.00 each including shipping. When we got them they even were even in the same box that the originals had come in that we got at the lighting store.
I guess what I am saying is, if it is on the planet, it is available. Vancouver to Cairns Australia is a 15-hour flight. So why is ordering from halfway around the world even an issue.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Why I model US train as a Belgian....
Somewhere the reason has no any good or reasonable basis, but You know it exist these small things which push you somewhere and you can't really explain them.
I'm ready to reach sixty now and I begun to model train when I was 10 years old, everything comes from a gift of my late father; this gift was a life gift in fact, really!
I live in Belgium, I model in N scale and the first model I had receive were European models from Arnold Rapido, a T3, a small steam locomotive whith a few passenger cars, that was the beginning and I still have these models today.
Dad has some interest in American trains, he own two HO steam locomotives from Rivarrossi, one was the big Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0 switcher, the second, I don't remember, further, dad was reading MR since 1947, I still have all these old issues, and these small things give me a small approach of American trains and models; it was also the time were numerous articles about the late John Allen were published, and as a youngster I was really fascinated by his work.
I never changed the scale in this 50 years, but go to american models simply because I find the Rapido coupler inadequate. The Arnold Rapido coupler can't serve in a serious operation scheme which interest me at this time. Today in 2018 it still does'nt exist a good working coupler for operation on the European market in N scale but also in HO scale.
When I was 18, my father and me visit a train show in Netherland and there, was a beautiful HON3 layout using...Kadee couplers; I was extremly impressed by them and when back at home I know I need them for my trains; this was the first time I see them in action; at this time no video on You Tube to learn something!
By the beginning I have try to put MT couplers on European locomotives and cars, but quickly this appears like a nightmare because of the numerous different heights of the trains and further because of the European cars and locomotives buffers which oblige to use big distance between cars.
After a big work of grinding, sanding, and taping whithout any good results, I left Europeans models 40 years ago and switch to American models just because of a good working coupler; the first one were a Rivarossi steamer, a pacific I believe, and of course the first cars were MT ones. At this point I really fall in love with US train.
After this point, I never come back to European models, further I can't find any interest about European trains until now, I can't tell why, but I find US model more appealing with .....of course excellent couplers.
Today I'm hardly working, when time allow me, on my Maclau River in Nscale, my big N scale American layout set in the late 30's and largely inspired by the N&W et C&O as a big coal transporter line.
I never regrets this change and look at any information I can find about US train because I never go in USA, I'm probably the only Belgian working on a US Nscale layout, which is sometimes sad because I have no friend to share my work.
Modeling US model in Belgium is not easy, because You can't find nearly nothing to model properly, I mean it's difficult to find materials like Evergreen wood shape, brass shape, even colours and sure no N scale US models. This oblige me to import everything from US, from the kits, the cars, the locomotives and some modeling hardware; fortunately in Germany it exist since a few years an excellent shop were I can find some Nscale american stuff. Because it was so difficult to obtain them, I use Nscale Fastrack jig to build my turnouts since 2008; this had open really new horizon and had made laying track faster. I just hope the ridiculous trade war which is on the way, don't push the price out of reach for imports.
Impressed by the US steam, I'm ready to come in USA in 2019, if UP 4014 ride as announced by UP steam staff.
Marc_Magnusbut You know it exist these small things which push you somewhere and you can't really explain them.
I can relate to this statement. I have been plying my way through some rather hefty books on the middle east mostly about the Ottoman Empire. This had led me to read more about railroads in the middle east and I have developed quite a fascination with them.
More than anything it is history that attracts me to model the CPR in Canada, so further to Henry's question, how much does history play a part in what you model if you model U.S. railroads from a different part of the planet.
I'll throw another question. Shipping from China must be subsidized in some way and much of what I buy off ebay is free shipping. Our friends from Canada complain about shipping from the US especially if the carrier is UPS (a private shipper)
In the US we have shipping and handling. If I sell something on ebay, I charge just my actual postage cost. Unlike a retail store, I don't have to keep an inventory of boxes and pay someone to pack them. Not all ebay sellers feel that way and sometimes the handling is multiples of the actual shipping cost.
Do you consider shipping expensive when ordering from the US? If you buy something from another EU country, is it the same as buying it within your own country?
BigDaddy I'll throw another question. Shipping from China must be subsidized in some way and much of what I buy off ebay is free shipping. Our friends from Canada complain about shipping from the US especially if the carrier is UPS (a private shipper) In the US we have shipping and handling. If I sell something on ebay, I charge just my actual postage cost. Unlike a retail store, I don't have to keep an inventory of boxes and pay someone to pack them. Not all ebay sellers feel that way and sometimes the handling is multiples of the actual shipping cost. Do you consider shipping expensive when ordering from the US? If you buy something from another EU country, is it the same as buying it within your own country?
Hello,
speaking about shipping cost, well it depends, shipping from US to Belgium by UPS ( the most used when I order something in USA) seems have quiet low rates of shipping and are acceptable, the price however depends of the size and weight of the order, unfortunately custom cost are something else and we must pay VAT, an European taxe on everything, so yes it can cost money.
On the other side, I just receive last week a roll of red rosin paper which I use as hardshell base and the buying price, taxes and shipping cost me 53 euros, (+/- 45$) it's from Trimaco on Ebay, this is also quiet low for a big size and a weight around 7kg. Of course the roll come by ship and not by plane, this explain may be the cost; it was necessary to wait a big month to receive it.
One interesting remark is, generaly if I made an order the monday by example, I generaly receive this order the next monday or the tuesday; order pay by credit card.
In Europe if I order something the monday it often need more than a week, I can say a minimal 12 to 14 days to receive my order, shipping cost are the same as US or nearly, but sure more expensive if you consider the short distance between countries.
And with the ridiculous trade war on the way, this could be more expensive to import something from the US.
Anyway, the cost of taxes on the shipping and order are higher than the shipping cost.
Shipping costs are an issue. Shipping from the US to Europe via air freight is quite expensive, but you get delivery within 2 - 3 weeks, including the time for clearing customs. You have to add 10% duty on the total, and an additional stiff charge for VAT on top of everything. In Germany, that´s 19%. Shipping from China usually is included or minimal. No customs duty and for orders under about $45 no VAT! Makes buying small things in China quite attractive. I bought a big bag of DPDT switches for less than zthe shipping cjharge from my local source!
Compared to other European countries, German shipping charges are modest, inside and outside of the country. I remember sending a model of a boxcar to our deeceased friend Jeffrey. The shipping charges were less than $3 SAL (surface air lifted) and it arrived within 3 weeks!
Over many years, modeling US trains was quite attractive in terms of price. This was partly due to a rather weak US Dollar, but also to significantly lower prices compared to what one has to pay for European prototype trains. This has changed dramatically, as prices on a pre-VAT basis are now on the same level.
I don't know how well I speak for my fellow Canadian modelers, Henry, but in my case it isn't the shipping so much; it's the 'handling'. If we manage to get the shipper in the USA to use USPO, we get the item in good time for a reasonable fee. If the shipper refuses to use US Postal, we have to get the item via a courier. Those entities charge a 'customs brokerage' fee sometimes, all the time...it has been a while, so I forget.... That can add up to $35 Cdn. As it is, in addition to the shipping, we must pay GST (Goods and Services Tax) to the feds. We have to pay for our vaunted health care system somehow.
Well another Australian is me and modelling the SP and the local prototype (the South Australian Railways) which is getting easier thanks to some very good cottage industry suppliers. Well in my state of Victoria (one of the smaller states) one hobby shop does a fair job of importing from the USA and are reasonable on price. Getting anything off ebay now our goverment just put a new tax on ebay importing from anywhere into the country, so its getting annoying if you want anything ebay wise.
Postage is pretty good about two weeks from USA and its in the mailbox and arrives in one piece safe and sound, some of the prices though are bit expensive depending on which state its coming from to here can vary big time for just a boxcar
Pretty happy modelling the SP here in Australia
Tinplate ToddlerShipping costs are an issue. Shipping from the US to Europe via air freight is quite expensive, but you get delivery within 2 - 3 weeks, including the time for clearing customs.
An insured Priority Air Mail International packages up to 20 lbs costs about $40 and $55 depending on dimensions and dealer' rabatt. 4 lbs First Class International is about $30.
Tinplate ToddlerYou have to add 10% duty on the total, and an additional stiff charge for VAT on top of everything
There are no customs duties on model railroad items. The problem is with model cars. We want them as part of our MR, for custom they are model cars with a tarrif.
Tinplate Toddler Shipping from China usually is included or minimal. No customs duty and for orders under about $45 no VAT! Makes buying small things in China quite attractive.
Customs regulations are the same, from USA or China. A United Nations body called the Universal Postal Union defines China still as developing country and that allows government to heavily subsidize postage.
Tinplate ToddlerCompared to other European countries, German shipping charges are modest, inside and outside of the country.
A DHL small package (max. 4.4 lbs) is 16 EUR ($19.20) to the USA, an insured package up to 11 lbs is 40 EUR ($48.00) to name few data.Regards, Volker
Thank you for correcting each and every post I make. I hope it pleases you.
However, a small package, just big enough to hold a boxcar, can be sent as a letter, for €3,70 worlwide. Weight limit is 500gr. and for $7, the weight limit is double.
Tinplate ToddlerThank you for correcting each and every post I make. I hope it pleases you.
For sure not.
I would have posted this information anyway. Your post was a good starting point. The only correction was the 10% duty on MR items. Everything else I see as supplement.
As we both are living in the same country I find it natural then when one corrects or supplements the other in case of discrepancies or errors especially if it regards themes were nationality is involved. BTW you corrected me too.
Tinplate ToddlerHowever, a small package, just big enough to hold a boxcar, can be sent as a letter, for €3,70 worlwide. Weight limit is 500gr. and for $7, the weight limit is double.
You are totally right. That is the reason I didn't comment your boxcar example.Regards, Volker
We have flat rate, no weight limit priority mail to anywhere in the US.
Parcel post can be cheaper but is slower.
BigDaddyI'll throw another question. Shipping from China must be subsidized in some way and much of what I buy off ebay is free shipping.
I agree about subsidized shipping from China, in fact, I get things so cheap from China I think the product must be subsidized as well. The United States Post Office lost 2.7 billion in 2017 so it is obviously subsidized as well.
I have learned that anything you see in the store that say's "Made In China" can usually be found with an online search and bought directly from China for pennies on the dollar. I usually get most things in ten to twenty days.
Getting things sent to Canada from abroad is a real crap shoot. You may or may not get dinged with duty and taxes, it is quite inconsistent. I just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. I consider it lucky if I get a freebie but do expect to pay.
My rule of thumb is, if coming by mail, anything under about $200.00 will not get customs attention, anything over and if from the U.S. I pick it up at our box in Blaine Washington and drive it back. Anything under about $1500.00 is fine with the border guys.
United Parcel Service and a couple of other smaller companies charge a brokerage fee of $75.00. We just refuse the item when that happens. My wife gets semen shipping containers returned to her when doing repo work. They are only worth about $30.00, however, people will often return them UPS instead of through the mail thinking they are doing her a favour even though she explains why they need to come via the Post Office. So the person ends up getting the semen shipper returned to them as we refuse to pay the brokerage fee and ends up paying well over a $100.00 in postage and fees for a $30.00 container. Go figure.
I wonder what happens to goods that end up in limbo when neither the sender or receiver will pay the brokerage.
BigDaddyDo you consider shipping expensive when ordering from the US?
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
With a number of specialzed US model railroad dealers it is often tu buy from them or to import directly from the USA. If the latter is worth the additional effort decides the exchange rate.
Buying at the dealer eleminated the possible trouble with customs. Since about two years customs enforces the CE certification requirement, which American items usually don't have. But the classification of MR items seems differently in different customs offices. There might be no problem or the items gets rejected.
An example: A ScaleTrains.com SD40T-2 costs about $252 until in Germany. A German dealer asks converted $270. You save $18 but is it worth the possible trouble? With a stronger Euro the gap gets wider.Regards; Volker
To those that live around the world and buy from the U.S. have you looked into buying the item from a Canadian supplier. They have all the same products on the shelves.
I have been chatting with two people in Australia on a FB site that have orders in for Rapido's Royal Hudson. They were considerably cheaper when bought from Canada. I think shipping was a little higher but the currency exchange part of the deal made that a non-issue. Also, import duties and taxes may be lower or higher depending on the country of origin.
Now with the tit for tat tariff issue between the U.S and where ever, no such tariff war is going on between Canada and where ever.
I was talking to my son's friends Dad, his company makes high-pressure steel pipe. His orders went up 40% when the tariffs went in. The pipe from the U.S. had a tit for tat tariff put on it by some European countries, so that made it a no-brainer to order from Canada as there were no tariffs imposed on Canadian steel.
I would be interested to see if anything MRR has been affected. I tried messing around by ordering some items, however, the mail order places seemed to know that my computer was in Canada and would throw me curve balls.