Hello all,
It's been roughly two weeks since I called my "proof of concept" kit bash satisfactory, sadly I have met some major issues in the operation of the car, mostly because of its extreme length it cannot navigate even the broadest curves without derailing.
So now I've decided to make a new and improved version of the car as a "master" for multiple resin castings.
Problems I hope/have to remedy this time around:
First and foremost getting the car to run on at least 26" radius minimum (the clubs minimum mainline radii is much broader)
Get the underframe just right.
Make a load for the car.
Perhaps correct the spacing on the second stall of the car. Only if I end up having to modify the underframe at the ends to accept the prototype trucks.
My current plan of attack is as follows:
My plan to get the car to run better is use the underframe (the base of of a flat car with the deck removed/not applied) and splice that to length.
Now concerning the running aspect, I see a very real possibility that I will have to cut the underage in multiple locations to get the trucks to clear right. Also I may consider drilling out holes in the center of the trucks to mount them instead of the stock offset bolster holes. Also I may result to making the wheels on the the center axle blind to eliminate binding in sharper radii.
If I do resort to slicing, dicing, and splicing the underframe to work then I will go ahead and remedy the spacing of the second stall at each end of the car to match the prototype.
Proper detailing such as ladders, brake wheel(s), cylinder(s), resvoir(s).
I plan to utilize a underframe off a flat car with the stake pockets and stuff cut/shaved/filed off to replicate the prototypes depressed center as closely as possible.
This isn't going to be a quick and dirty bash like the first one I'm actually going to shoot for some precise accuracy.
And Mr. Otte, I emailed MR@MRmag.Com (I don't know if I have it typed right there but I copied and pasted the address when I sent the email) about the possibility of writing an article about the cars and the kit bash thereof, is there someone specific I need to forward my inquiry to?
Thank you for your time, I will post updates as they happen.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Have you tried to run full length passenger cars on your track? It would give a comparison to see if there are any track problems.
Once you have the truck clearance issues sorted out, it should run OK. Perhaps some additional weight would help the tracking; per the NMRA RP a 75' car should weigh 5.8oz
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Steven,
There is no way you HAVE to take the flanges off the center axles of the trucks. And that's just the beginning.
You have to calm down on this. "slicing, dicing, and splicing" indeed. You are embarrasing yourself.
Calmly. Taking your time. Evaluate what's going on.
The car does not care that you are frustrated. It never will.
You have a good idea. You can develop it. You have done well so far. Maybe you take a break and let the answer come to you.
Ed
What Ed said!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
NWP SWP Also I may consider drilling out holes in the center of the trucks to mount them instead of the stock offset bolster holes. Also I may result to making the wheels on the the center axle blind to eliminate binding in sharper radii.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Good morning,
I think there was a frantic tone in the OP that I didn't mean to have there.
OK so the truck pin relocation is a last resort if I cannot get the truck to clear, the trucks are hanging up on the drop down gear box I put on it to get the coupler height right.
And the reason I really don't want to pursue the problems on the original car is because I don't want to butcher the cat to get it to run I'd rather call it a shelf queen and move on to the next one, this time thinking about operations first and during construction.
Also the original car is weighted to 8.0 Oz. And rolls fine in the straights, just don't hit a curve!
So, does one of these monstrosities actually fit your originally planned era, which - IIRC - was 1920 thru 1960? Or, has that time-frame shifted now?
You might want to compare the bolster placement on a comparable-sized passenger car to get a good idea where you will need to place/center your 3-axle trucks on each end.
Lastly, have you ever considered kitbashing something that's on the "regular" size (i.e. 40-50' range) rather than continually coming up with projects that are always big, or long, or both? That might help eliminate some of the issues that will continually plague you with these larger projects at this point in time in your learning curve.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Steven ..... If curves cause derailing, check the screw or pin on each truck to see if the trucks pivot freely. .... Also check to see if the trucks bump into details under the car. If so, remove the obstructions. ... Use a wheel gauge for all axles and adjust if needed to get the wheels in gauge. ....
Ed 7j43k....You said....."The car does not care if you are frustrated.".... Great comment!..
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
NWP SWPAnd the reason I really don't want to pursue the problems on the original car is because I don't want to butcher the cat to get it to run I'd rather call it a shelf queen and move on to the next one
.
For heaven's sake, finish the learning experience.
Before you put this queen on the shelf, paint it, decal it, weather it, and find out all about everything else you can on this one first.
And... don't forget to post pictures in Weekend Photo Fun!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I still don't have the money this week so it might be another two weeks before I will allow myself to purchase the supplies.
My budget is to not spent more than half of each paycheck. So this week I'll be putting as many hours in as possible.
Are the couplers binding?
No the couplers are actually perfect, the trucks are hanging up on the gearboxes because I had to modify them to get the couplers low enough.
My plan is to use Bowser F-30a flats as the underframe, hopefully that will remedy the coupler height and truck clearance issue.
Could you post a good picture of this modification and where the trucks are binding?
If the couplers are at the correct height the axles should not hit the boxes. Maybe this is a design issue with the passenger car trucks you used.
SeeYou190 If the couplers are at the correct height the axles should not hit the boxes.
If the couplers are at the correct height the axles should not hit the boxes.
My thought, also. Perhaps the trucks have to swivel too far, because of the length of the car. And the curve radius. Still, it seems like something that could be fixed. And, yes, a photo could be helpful
Maybe this is a design issue with the passenger car trucks you used.
He's not using passenger car trucks; he's using Athearn Buckeye freight trucks.
I don't think you've ever posted a photo of the bolsters like I asked. Perhaps we could help you come up with a solution? There is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I think using a flat car and putting a hopper shell on it is a terrible idea...
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Here's the photos.
My plan as far as the body is to basically take the gondola, THE GONDOLA, it has a flat bottom! Cut as I did before but instead of using the stock underframes I glue it onto a flat car also cut to length.
The side sill and stuff will be sanded off the flat car so that it blends in with the gondola.
See the drop down in the center, that's what I'm trying to emulate, at the cars length the stock underframes do not look adequate, and my styrene cutting is not good enough to fabricate them from scratch.
Also my guesstimation is that by hopefully being able to use the flat cars bolsters and gearboxes with modification it will negate the need to fiddle with the trucks and stuff to get a reliable running car.
Ohh and one more problem, the trucks have a nasty habit of sitting at an angle and raising the outermost axle off the rails, it can be remedied by loosening the truck pin but it's still an issue.
In my limited experience with long cars and three axle trucks, the couplers are mounted on the trucks. Or the couplers pivot in unison with the trucks. You might have some binding of the trucks and couplers.
When I put couplers on some passenger cars, I put them on with just the coupler head protruding from the car. ( they were body mounted ) this caused the cars to hit each other going around corners and derailing.
Looking at the truck mounting, i think the truck screws should be in the outer hole. That would give more swing of the truck towards the center of the car. I feel that there would be less truck to coupler box contact.
This would also help a little with adding stirrup steps!
You should also remove the crossmembers near the inner axles. Our oversized flanges and wheel tread width need extra clearance.
Also... it is always the best idea to use Kadee coupler boxes if at all possible. Manufacturer cast-in coupler boxes tend to have thicker walls and coupler lids.
trwroute Looking at the truck mounting, i think the truck screws should be in the outer hole.
Looking at the truck mounting, i think the truck screws should be in the outer hole.
The problem radius is like 30" radius!
NWP SWP The problem radius is like 30" radius!
That IS a surprise. Oh, well. The two mods I describe will likely get down towards 24". Maybe.
You should also check clearances for the wheels (see Kevin's comment above).
All this MAY be beyond your abilities, right now. Like many things, it's easy if you have the tools and the experience--NOT easy if you don't. "Been there. Done that."
If available, I'd suggest checking out a class in machining. Or even take your project to the teacher for guidance. Teachers LOVE it when someone shows up who doesn't HAVE to!
When I was in school, I had a job at a machine shop; and I learned a LOT. I even (eventually) got to design a model BART train for them. THAT was about the most fun getting paid ever.
One problem, as of May I became a high school graduate, also I was home schooled so no machining classes there!
NWP SWP Here's the photos.
Looks like to me like the (edit) wheels on the lead axle are hitting the coupler box with the truck almost pointed straight ahead.
NWP SWP One problem, as of May I became a high school graduate, also I was home schooled so no machining classes there!
As I said, when people who don't HAVE to attend a class show up and ask teachers questions, they love it. If your local high school, junior college, or city college has such a class, drop by for a chat with the teacher. I doubt you HAVE to be enrolled to do such a thing.
It's a thought.
maxman Looks like to me like the lead axle is hitting the coupler box with the truck almost pointed straight ahead.
Looks like to me like the lead axle is hitting the coupler box with the truck almost pointed straight ahead.
If the coupler is at the right height, it's pretty difficult for the axle to hit the coupler box, even if it's right under it.
7j43k maxman Looks like to me like the lead axle is hitting the coupler box with the truck almost pointed straight ahead. If the coupler is at the right height, it's pretty difficult for the axle to hit the coupler box, even if it's right under it. Ed
Sorry, I meant the wheel, not the axle.
I agree, the inside of the wheel flange is hitting the coupler box. On wide radius curves this would not be a problem, but its obvious the curves on the layout are too tight for this long car.
I can't say for sure, but perhaps the trucks are mounted too close to the end of the car - especially as they are 3 axle trucks.
In the prototype world, the span between those trucks is awfully long, and the car better have a really strong underframe or it would sag from any significant weight.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central