LastspikemikeNo it doesn't. Means requires that you intend the end by use of the means.
No, means is the action, process, or system that brought about the result. Intent is not neccessary, and is different. Several lawyers have explained this to me before depositions. I am dumbfounded that you got that one wrong.
Means is different than "meaning" to do something.
LastspikemikeI caused no destruction.
Yes, you did, but that is all water under the bridge now and we are moving on towards something positive.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I am assuming nothing. Never mentioned the word "deliberately". Just reminding you of your own words.
But just to follow up on your own words, if posting incorrect information was not deliberate, then you posted information not knowing if it was correct or not just to rely on others to post the correct information for your benefit. That was just plain wrong, particularly for anyone who may have relied on incorrect information.
Lastspikemike It seems I may have generated quite a bit of controversy in my approach but it paid off for me. I got answers, lots of them.
It seems I may have generated quite a bit of controversy in my approach but it paid off for me. I got answers, lots of them.
Alton Junction
L. Zhou you should stop by Jeffrey's Trackside Diner.
Your last name and sig line suggest you hav a different global perspective than most of us or at least a different background.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
L. Zhou I joined this forum for the fun and enjoyment of talking to others about the hobby and ask for some help when needed. This forum is refreshing and inspiring in a way, seeing pictures of everyone's work gives me newfound inspiration to further pursue my projects.
I joined this forum for the fun and enjoyment of talking to others about the hobby and ask for some help when needed. This forum is refreshing and inspiring in a way, seeing pictures of everyone's work gives me newfound inspiration to further pursue my projects.
Me too. As a Newbie to Model Railroads, this forum is a lifeline from across the North Atlantic and I am grateful for all the help and encouragement I have received.
I enjoy seeing everyones Work, Models and Railroads and it is good to join in, when I can. Paul
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang
-
Soupy I rejoined the forum a month or so ago. I was a member for a while over ten years ago under a different name but was severely hurt and burned by answers from a few unkind people over a very innocent question. ...
I rejoined the forum a month or so ago.
I was a member for a while over ten years ago under a different name but was severely hurt and burned by answers from a few unkind people over a very innocent question.
...
I feel quite confident that everyone here is very happy to learn that you persisted and that you have returned. Several of us volunteered to moderate this forum back in 2007, and thankfully the work we did changed the tone of the place. 98% of members then and now would say it is for the better...tone-wise, anyway.
Please keep contributing as and when you feel compelled to do so.
Lastspikemike Posting incorrect information to a board like this leads to posts that correct that information not just for the original poster but everyone who reads it. For boards like this the information can benefit subsequent readers many years later. It did for me. Saved me literally hundreds of dollars and hours of time.
Posting incorrect information to a board like this leads to posts that correct that information not just for the original poster but everyone who reads it. For boards like this the information can benefit subsequent readers many years later. It did for me. Saved me literally hundreds of dollars and hours of time.
LastspikemikeI did not employ means
"Bull Into The Hobby Shop Manner"=Means
It is good that you realized what you did was destructive, and now we can move on.
SoupyI was a member for a while over ten years ago under a different name but was severely hurt and burned by answers from a few unkind people over a very innocent question.
I hope you do not hesitate to ask more questions in the future.
After a time I came back to lurk for a number of years because although I don't have a current layout (not counting the work train that lives on a bookshelf in my family room) I am still interested and fascinated by the amazing layouts and detail work found by the members here. I rejoined because I often think of a response to a particular topic and want to be able to comment.
Keep up the fantastic work all. I check in every morning.
Peace and blessings to all.
Lastspikemike I re-entered the hobby many, many years after I was last involved as a teenager with big ideas, no money and eventually no time. It seems I may have generated quite a bit of controversy in my approach but it paid off for me. Thanks to everyone who put up with my bull into the hobby shop manner, so far anyway. It may cause ripples in the space time continuum but it really does stimulate rapid and very useful replies. Not just for me.
I re-entered the hobby many, many years after I was last involved as a teenager with big ideas, no money and eventually no time.
It seems I may have generated quite a bit of controversy in my approach but it paid off for me.
Thanks to everyone who put up with my bull into the hobby shop manner, so far anyway. It may cause ripples in the space time continuum but it really does stimulate rapid and very useful replies. Not just for me.
Rich
I'm a lone wolf in a rural area that likes trains (and cars, and motorcycles, and bicycles, etc..) and likes to see what others are doing with their modeling.
I know no other modelers to talk to, unless I go to my lhs which is roughly a 4 hour round trip for me. There is a show next weekend and it's also a 4 hour round trip.
So, here I am. I may not post a whole lot, but I try to contribute a little.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
I joined so as to pass on what I have learned and to learn from others.
I like to see what other model railroads are like. Can I adapt anything onto mine.
I like to try different things. I want my layout to be a 'living one'. A living one that is forever changing. Taking ideas and using them and hopefully other modelers take my ideas also.
I like to 'dare people' with their model making. Come out of their comfort zone and do something a little different. Push their modeling up a 'notch or two'. Raise the standard to nearer their 'heroes' in model railroading. If I do that, then it also helps me to want to make my layout better.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
FlattenedQuarter I joined because I was interested in getting into the hobby and to get answers to mundane questions. So far that has worked out and I'm a week or so away from finishing up laying about 330' of track. I've gained knowledge and confidence in the project through the forums that I think I would have had harder and much longer time doing without the help of people here. Thanks
I joined because I was interested in getting into the hobby and to get answers to mundane questions. So far that has worked out and I'm a week or so away from finishing up laying about 330' of track. I've gained knowledge and confidence in the project through the forums that I think I would have had harder and much longer time doing without the help of people here. Thanks
Odd question that would seem to be rather obvious, no offense intended.
The only reason this forum exists is because we are (and have been for 40 years now) in the electronic age. Before this, there wasnt this kind of collaboration betwixt the congress of model railroaders.
It required clubs, informal get togethers, or even the ever popular snail mail correspondance. Anything new in the hobby had to be waited for - ie: the next edition of MR or Trains.
The forums are the next extension of the printed magazine. Now, ideas and information can flow alot more quickly. Pictures, which are most helpful, can be descimated in moments without the need for a quick trip down to the corner Kodak Shack to get your prints developed, then mailed.
Before i started using the forum, my exposure was limited to those who i met in the hobby, and this was limited to pretty much who was local to me. Now I can converse instantly with modellers around the world who have way too much combined knowledge to not avail ones self of.
Sure, sometimes things may get a lil heated or out of hand. Its true, text cannot convey genuflection and misinterpretation sets in. This is something that most dont realize MUST be taken into account when using this type of medium. Besides, Model Railroaders are a proud people. We know what we know (which is everything) and we dont hesitate to step up and speak our minds.
One must not loose sight of the fact good strong discussion is a must. Even if it does get a little heated. No other hobby (bar none!) compares with this one. All the other hobbys are in this hobby, not the other way around. This is THE ONLY hobby where we get to play "god" for a lack of better words. Even gods will argue, if they existed.
In the end, the truth is exposed and hopefully learned. Thats when the trick of it all happens.... its passed on. Probably 50% of this hobby is the preservation of history, and the passing on of that history. Communication is a must to do that. This is 'todays' form of doing that.
Quite frankly, this medium is a MUST HAVE if your in this hobby. Model railroaders are the best people on this stinkin planet. Id rather even argue with a fellow railroader, than carry a conversation with just a normal anyone. Id still get more respect from a PO'd modeller than any joe off the street.
I, for one, am extremely glad MR/Trains provides this form of communication at no extra cost to us - the user. Its like having Odegard, Armstrong, or Huddleston in my train room. Who would turn that down?
I have been a member of the forum for a few years now, and I plan to remain as long as MR/Trains will allow me. This is one resource that will not be foresaken or overlooked. Its more valuable than gold (or brass, in our case).
Best Regards,
PMR
They've developed bad habits?
It has been quite a while since we visited this subject.
Do any of the newer members have anything to add?
First time I found the site was maybe 16 years ago when I was in high school and just took an interest in the hobby. Posted once in awhile but didn't really absorb or contribute much to the conversations. Now, with a renewed interest and big dreams of a layout (although it's a 2' x 8' with a 4' extension for now), I'm learning a lot and have found it to be a great resource for how to do the basics. I tend to get "scared" about tackling some projects because I don't like the risk of failure and having to redo anything, but the forums offer such detailed and exact advice that I'm slowly becoming a bit more confident.
Since I do not have an operating layout at the moment, I can run trains, but it's just track on on foam for rite now, I'll continue to read and learn from the forums in hopes of applying the knowledge in the future. My current interests are learning about the history of different fallen flags of the 90s and developing my proto-freelanced railroad of the future.
The one gripe I do have is the inability to search/sort posts by era modeled. I have almost zero interest in steam era and first generation diesel. My main interests are second generation diesel up to modern era (mostly late 80s to present). It'd be great to have sub forums to post about specifics to the eras. I know there's a lot to learn from all modelers, but sometimes it's nice to only read about a specific era.
I enjoy sharing information and problem solving. I also enjoy following some of the long time members layouts, and the challenges they have had with the hobby and how those challenges influence their pont of view over time.
I also enjoy the OT discussions when they don't get too personal. Conversations about cars, houses, airplanes, etc, all fall into the "stuff" category so I little conversation around things like that on a model train forum seems appropriate to me. Economics, finances, in addition to the "stuff" mentioned are all things that impact everyone, and everyone tends to have an interest in.
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRALAND I faced considerable resistance from those who at the time considered DCC the only "future" for model train control. Funny how DCC has not fully taken over yet, and now has new challengers..... And when I have the energy, I will still stand up against the "DC block toggle" myth.
Russell
I have been a member for quite som time and am a N-Scale modeler.
The info that one can gain from others her no mater what scale is great as we all love trains and the modeling of them.
I always find something that I can apply to my N-scale pike and this is the sam reason I read Model Railroader magazine.
maxman rrebell as site was bought out (I have no idea why they would pay what they did for that site because the site was the person who set it up). Probably paid for the domain name.
rrebell as site was bought out (I have no idea why they would pay what they did for that site because the site was the person who set it up).
Probably paid for the domain name.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm getting ready to move, sooner than orginally planned, and I have a layout to relocate and complete........ Darn, that sounds "painful", hope things go well. Cheers, the Bear.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm getting ready to move, sooner than orginally planned, and I have a layout to relocate and complete........
Darn, that sounds "painful", hope things go well.
Cheers, the Bear.
It's not painful at all.
First it's been in the works for a while, the useable parts of the layout are modules.
Second, the new layout space is larger........
Third, we will still own the old house for quite a while, 6-12 months or more, so the move does not have a hard deadline.
Take care,
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI'm getting ready to move, sooner than orginally planned, and I have a layout to relocate and complete........
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
SeeYou190 I have been a member of this forum for about 18 months now. This is the only Model Railroading forum that I participate with. . I am curious as to why the regulars are here, what made people join, and what keeps everyone coming back. . I have been active on board gaming/wargaming forums all over the web for 20+ years as the hero/general “Duke Georgal of Entralgia”. Activity on these various forums is almost required to participate in that hobby. You need to find people for opponents and events to play at, rules interpretations are discussed as a community, and we all share our fun (or funny) battle reports. Discussions of strategy or historical accuracy are also always lively. . Model Railroading is an entirely different type of hobby. You can be a lone wolf and go completely off the grid and do whatever you want. No one else’s interpretations or personality matter one bit in how we enjoy this hobby. You do not need any interpersonal interaction to be a Model Railroader, so all the Model Railroading forums meant absolutely nothing to me. . Then, about 20 months ago, I ripped my “spare bedroom” HO layout out of the house. I then went through a violent purge cycle and threw away about 75% of my model railroading stuff. Anything I thought was holding back my creativity or slowing my progress towards achieving my goals was disposed of. All incomplete projects were stripped of usable parts and tossed away. . This created a void in enthusiasm. The purge was phase one of a two year (looks like it will take 3 years) house remodel project that will finally result in me finally having a dedicated and proper train room. I could see that without a layout my Model Railroading activity would decline. . My plan was, and still is, to spend the time without a layout building a new freight car fleet of about 150-200 cars. The plan was also to collect everything needed to complete construction of the new layout. . So… why did I join this forum? Simple… to keep my enthusiasm alive. I know that without the enjoyment of a layout I will have to get encouragement and comradery among my fellow modelers. . “Weekend Photo Fun” is exactly what I needed. This little thread every week does more to keep me “on track” than anything else I could have asked for. . Then “Show Me Something” opened up a whole new world for me. Using my wargaming terrain supplies and a good camera I have a fun sub-hobby that keeps my creativity alive. . All the other discussions are great for me as well. Even though what I am doing with the STRATTON & GILLETTE has so little to do with what anyone else is doing, I have a great time bouncing ideas around. There has been a surprising amount of good input, and I have even changed plans here and there after listening to other points of view. . What keeps me coming back is honestly the moderation. Steve Otte does a magnificent job of keeping everything in order around here. The wargaming forums all become full of acid and toxicity way too frequently, and what Steve does keeps all that away from this setting. I can easily do without all the nonsense and prefer just to talk about models and hobbies. I have seen how bad a hobby forum and community can become when things are left unchecked, and it is ugly. . So, why are you in here and what keeps you around? I was a model railroader for 30+ years without these forums, but I do not know if I would have made it through the last two without them. . -Kevin .
I have been a member of this forum for about 18 months now. This is the only Model Railroading forum that I participate with.
.
I am curious as to why the regulars are here, what made people join, and what keeps everyone coming back.
I have been active on board gaming/wargaming forums all over the web for 20+ years as the hero/general “Duke Georgal of Entralgia”. Activity on these various forums is almost required to participate in that hobby. You need to find people for opponents and events to play at, rules interpretations are discussed as a community, and we all share our fun (or funny) battle reports. Discussions of strategy or historical accuracy are also always lively.
Model Railroading is an entirely different type of hobby. You can be a lone wolf and go completely off the grid and do whatever you want. No one else’s interpretations or personality matter one bit in how we enjoy this hobby. You do not need any interpersonal interaction to be a Model Railroader, so all the Model Railroading forums meant absolutely nothing to me.
Then, about 20 months ago, I ripped my “spare bedroom” HO layout out of the house. I then went through a violent purge cycle and threw away about 75% of my model railroading stuff. Anything I thought was holding back my creativity or slowing my progress towards achieving my goals was disposed of. All incomplete projects were stripped of usable parts and tossed away.
This created a void in enthusiasm. The purge was phase one of a two year (looks like it will take 3 years) house remodel project that will finally result in me finally having a dedicated and proper train room. I could see that without a layout my Model Railroading activity would decline.
My plan was, and still is, to spend the time without a layout building a new freight car fleet of about 150-200 cars. The plan was also to collect everything needed to complete construction of the new layout.
So… why did I join this forum? Simple… to keep my enthusiasm alive. I know that without the enjoyment of a layout I will have to get encouragement and comradery among my fellow modelers.
“Weekend Photo Fun” is exactly what I needed. This little thread every week does more to keep me “on track” than anything else I could have asked for.
Then “Show Me Something” opened up a whole new world for me. Using my wargaming terrain supplies and a good camera I have a fun sub-hobby that keeps my creativity alive.
All the other discussions are great for me as well. Even though what I am doing with the STRATTON & GILLETTE has so little to do with what anyone else is doing, I have a great time bouncing ideas around. There has been a surprising amount of good input, and I have even changed plans here and there after listening to other points of view.
What keeps me coming back is honestly the moderation. Steve Otte does a magnificent job of keeping everything in order around here. The wargaming forums all become full of acid and toxicity way too frequently, and what Steve does keeps all that away from this setting. I can easily do without all the nonsense and prefer just to talk about models and hobbies. I have seen how bad a hobby forum and community can become when things are left unchecked, and it is ugly.
So, why are you in here and what keeps you around? I was a model railroader for 30+ years without these forums, but I do not know if I would have made it through the last two without them.
Kevin,
Your story is interesting. I don't know that there is any "typical model railroader", but based on my experiances on both sides of the hobby shop counter, you are not "typical". That is not a criticism, just an observation.
For me, I came on this forum, the Aristo Craft forum, and the Bachmann forum, about 9 years ago with a simple purpose.
I was developing a new DC Advanced Cab Control system to use with the Aristo Train Engineer, and I was looking for other modelers who were using the Aristo radio throttles in small scales like HO or N, wanting to both learn how they applied them to the layout, and to share with them (and others) my ideas for wireless DC throttle Advanced Cab Control with CTC and signaling.
A more general interest in the conversations on the forums grew from there...not without some growing pains.
On this forum I was accused of violating rules about commerical selling/promotion, even though I had nothing to sell. Yes, I was considering writing a book on my system if there was interest. Yes I have sold custom circuit boards for my system to other modelers (but never as a result of making a statement on this forum that such an item was available for sale).
Hours of valueable FREE information was then deleted from this forum.........
Every aspect of my system has been openly published on the three forums for anyone to duplicate - does that sound like some big "commercial promotion"?
But I did find others on here using Aristo throttles, and I did share many of my concepts with a number of interested modelers.
AND I faced considerable resistance from those who at the time considered DCC the only "future" for model train control. Funny how DCC has not fully taken over yet, and now has new challengers..... And when I have the energy, I will still stand up against the "DC block toggle" myth.
Today my interest in this forum is fading fast. Today is my first posting in three weeks. It may be three more weeks.....
I'm getting ready to move, sooner than orginally planned, and I have a layout to relocate and complete........
rrebellas site was bought out (I have no idea why they would pay what they did for that site because the site was the person who set it up).
For me it is a case of last man standing, so many of the forums have died or changed, though some still may exist they are run by people who are not model railroaders. My favorite forum (most of the people on it were kit manufactures) is now run by non model railroaders as site was bought out (I have no idea why they would pay what they did for that site because the site was the person who set it up). It was a great site and you could upload pics direct from your computer.
I joined because I wanted to hang out with other model railroaders, to learn from them, and contribute where I could. It's been very satisfying in that regards, particualrly because I'm the sort that feels like I'm benefiting when I can help others.
Did I gain these benefits because of the specific appeal of info and help offered to me, to fill my needs? Not really, which is often the case with our hobby. Sure, you can often find others that share the same prototypical interests. More often, the hobby ie like a passing freight train. You might see a car or two you're very familiar with, but many others you know less about and some virtually nothing. Depending on your time and interest, you might look up much new info. or simply go back to doing what you know best. Either is fine and both attitudes are certainly in the mainstream of our hobby, as radically different as the may be. Some like Conrail. Some like East Broad Top. Depends on what you're curious about.
Another thing about our hobby that makes it very interesting and is reflected here is the variety of life that we depict on our layouts. Like real life, on the tracks it's always up ahead, on both sides, and probably where the train came from, too. Transportation technology is something that's reflected in many other hobbies, but because of the fact that we often build layouts and run tracks through this (variably successful) attempt at depicting the reality our RRs are embedded in, our interest and curriosity often takes us away from the track and into what we find surrounding the RR.
The RR doesn't ship RR stuff for the most part. It ships everything to do with life.
To learn about the vast subject of what might end up on our layouts, to understand the role of RRs as parts of even wider networks of commerce and industry, to know why a particular car is in a train and what is on it requires knowing at least the beginnings of how to find out and learn more about the vast number of connections to the wider world that a set of RR tracks represents. To know what you're seeing on the railroad, why it was important, and to understand the significance of various factors that affect the RR requires at least the beginnings of how it all fits into the 1:1 world.
Obviously, like much about RRs themselves, many people have a limited taste for the connections of real life that are of relevance to our RRs that extend beyond their personal interests. But that's one thing I learned early on as a MR reader -- give it a chance and you may find that thing you thought irrelevant yesterday may change into something that's really useful to know. In fact, not as a gripe, but as an observation, that's the thing I think has gone missing from MR the magazine -- the element of serendiptious discovery, of unexpected learning, of curiousity sparking new research on a topic you'd never thought much about before.
So while tastes vary, I think the forums at a general interest hobby magazine like MR must serve many different needs. IMO, they do it well in balanced manner that for me generally fills what I think has left the magazine as it became what it is today.
Yes, pure RR knowledge extract is good, but so are informative exchanges and friendships that extend away from the tracks and embed our hobby in the reality that many aspire to depict. If you feel something missing from your modeling of a prototype, it might not be a failure to appreciate a locomotive, but because the complex surroundings it exists in still need more illumination. That's what this forum provides for me, the social support network to be the best modeler I can be.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL