bearman Rio..if you have a layout big enough that the public, railroaders and non-railroaders alike, would be interested in touring it, then it is not impolite to have a sign at the entrance that lays out the basic rules in big block letters. Other facilities, e.g. museums, certain retail stores etc. have sign with the necessary admonishments, why not a layout?
Rio..if you have a layout big enough that the public, railroaders and non-railroaders alike, would be interested in touring it, then it is not impolite to have a sign at the entrance that lays out the basic rules in big block letters. Other facilities, e.g. museums, certain retail stores etc. have sign with the necessary admonishments, why not a layout?
100% agree. Prevention is better than cure.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
BRAKIE When I visit a layout I'm to engross at looking at the layout for any industry ideas I might be able to ste--er,ah,borrow. The majority-well at least 90% - of the layouts I have visited the owners knows how I like to take in the details and scenes so,seeing me slightly bent forward with my hands behind my back doesn't make them think I'm Mr.McGoo. At two of the basement empires there was a coat rack to hang your coat or jacket..A very nice touch.
When I visit a layout I'm to engross at looking at the layout for any industry ideas I might be able to ste--er,ah,borrow.
The majority-well at least 90% - of the layouts I have visited the owners knows how I like to take in the details and scenes so,seeing me slightly bent forward with my hands behind my back doesn't make them think I'm Mr.McGoo.
At two of the basement empires there was a coat rack to hang your coat or jacket..A very nice touch.
Coat rack is not only a conveinence, but stops all that coat sleeve damaage even for the pointers.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
bogp40 Coat rack is not only a conveinence, but stops all that coat sleeve damaage even for the pointers.
And if coats are off, less places to hide things the nefarious may want take with them.
Wow, some of these stories about what visitors did or do is concerning. It fits the stereotype of the creepy train guy in the basement who never bothered to care about learning basic social skills.
One of the most annoying is the lack of self awareness when they are hogging the hosts time by talking to him about how much they know.
Some of this stuff has nothing to do with trains. Its seems like basically impolite people who got into the model train hobby.
- Douglas
Doughless Wow, some of these stories about what visitors did or do is concerning. It fits the stereotype of the creepy train guy in the basement who never bothered to care about learning basic social skills. One of the most annoying is the lack of self awareness when they are hogging the hosts time by talking to him about how much they know. Some of this stuff has nothing to do with trains. Its seems like basically impolite people who got into the model train hobby.
Welcome to the hobby. Sadly there seems to be a fairly high percentage of socially dysfunctional people in the train hobby, including vendors and folks who are manufacturing models as well. One guy lost himself a sale recently by being rude to a customer who was just trying to buy a model from him. I guess this company/importer feels we need his stuff more than he needs the customer. SMH
But I guess social dysfunction isn't limited to train manufacturing exclusively, or the hobby. Sometimes people earn the stereo type that many of us end up facing.
The only issue that really bothers me about this thread is the realization that someone on a tour may steal something. Color me naive.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
People have reported that happening so that is a risk. All you can do is minimize hopefully.
Doughless It fits the stereotype of the creepy train guy in the basement who never bothered to care about learning basic social skills.
Doughless,They need people skills at work no doubt but,transform into a bumbling self centered baboon the very moment they step into a train room or basement.
The sad part that mood stays with them when they go to clubs or train shows.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
riogrande5761 Welcome to the hobby. Sadly there seems to be a fairly high percentage of socially dysfunctional people in the train hobby, including vendors and folks who are manufacturing models as well. One guy lost himself a sale recently by being rude to a customer who was just trying to buy a model from him. I guess this company/importer feels we need his stuff more than he needs the customer. SMH But I guess social dysfunction isn't limited to train manufacturing exclusively, or the hobby. Sometimes people earn the stereo type that many of us end up facing.
I've been to NMRA home-layout visits and generally speaking, the folks who take those tours are not in the hobby, and I find them to be completely respectful of the owners property and effort it took to build the layout.
For some reason, the ones who are in the hobby seem to default to a level of competition over knowledge, skills, accuracy, and the typical things people compete over if they aren't careful.
Kids will be kids and that's understandable, but the visitors with the hobby background tend to take more liberties with the owner's layout and comments than what a nonhobbyist seems to think is appropriate.
Doughless I've been to NMRA home-layout visits and generally speaking, the folks who take those tours are not in the hobby, and I find them to be completely respectful of the owners property and effort it took to build the layout.
Interesting. I've never been on NRMA tours, although I imagine there could be some cool layouts to see. I would have thought those would be populated by model railroaders. How is it non-hobbiests are going on the NMRA tours? How do they even know about them?
A case of where some, or too much specific knowledge but with no bridle or social monitoring ends up resulting in less than ideal social situations.
riogrande5761 Doughless I've been to NMRA home-layout visits and generally speaking, the folks who take those tours are not in the hobby, and I find them to be completely respectful of the owners property and effort it took to build the layout. Interesting. I've never been on NRMA tours, although I imagine there could be some cool layouts to see. I would have thought those would be populated by model railroaders. How is it non-hobbiests are going on the NMRA tours? How do they even know about them? For some reason, the ones who are in the hobby seem to default to a level of competition over knowledge, skills, accuracy, and the typical things people compete over if they aren't careful. A case of where some, or too much specific knowledge but with no bridle or social monitoring ends up resulting in less than ideal social situations.
Good point, there are yellow signs nearby and I think some of the visitors are regulars. I'll be safe and say that usually only one in the family group is interested in trains, and they keep their distance while the hobbyist keeps his manners.
Maybe its the lack of freedom brought about by the setting that inhibits boorish behavior.
Yes. There are some wonderful layouts on those tours, and very gracious hosts.
I've seen several layouts, but I don't usually ask questions- I'll let the docent/owner/operator fill me in on any interesting facts, so I don't seem pushy or over eager.
I've been hesitant to take photos of layouts-privacy deal again- but if the owner is cool with it, I'll shoot enough to get a general feel of it. Like how I do railfanning-never take photos with faces visable.
I've operated on Bob Prehoda's Huntingdon Northern layout before. I actually went just to see the layout in person during a NMRA division meeting, but Bob had other plans. I pulled in a few mintues after he opened the layout, and there were already people there running. He introduced himself (apparently my name is getting around the model railroad community in a GOOD POSITIVE WAY), and gave me a throttle for a "run through" train to get familar with the layout. Then after a bit, I traded that throttle to a younger kid, and I got a throttle to work the coal mine.
I personally always am "afraid" to run other people's equipment, and always seemingly run slow with it-being careful with it.
My club's layout is only open to general public November-January (private tours available if you contact a member, and we can get manpower down there), but we always have at least three club members present- one to run the open house consists(all the throttles are plugged in, at the helix room), one to stand in the hallway and keep an eye on the visitors, and one sits in the meeting room, answering questions on the artifacts located back there. Hopefully, we're gonna start having operations soon, so as soon as we do, 'll let you know our rules for that.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
SeeYou190 Most important rule: . DON'T ASK HOW MUCH IT COST! . It was very expensive, but it cost more in time than in dollars. . Back when I had the "Dream House" layout and the "Spare Bedroom" layout I would let visitors in to see them. . This is my experience: . Model Railroaders: Less than 10% are enjoyable visitors. Other Hobbiests: About 50% are enjoyable visitors. Non-Hobbiests: About 95% are enjoyable visitors. . I enjoy sharing. I love excitement when people see the layout. I don't care how many anachronisms, off-prototype anomolies, or picky errors you can find. . I especially don't want to hear about how your future fantasy non-existent layout is so much better than mine. . -Kevin .
Most important rule:
.
DON'T ASK HOW MUCH IT COST!
It was very expensive, but it cost more in time than in dollars.
Back when I had the "Dream House" layout and the "Spare Bedroom" layout I would let visitors in to see them.
This is my experience:
Model Railroaders: Less than 10% are enjoyable visitors.
Other Hobbiests: About 50% are enjoyable visitors.
Non-Hobbiests: About 95% are enjoyable visitors.
I enjoy sharing. I love excitement when people see the layout. I don't care how many anachronisms, off-prototype anomolies, or picky errors you can find.
I especially don't want to hear about how your future fantasy non-existent layout is so much better than mine.
-Kevin
Yes, us model railroaders are a bunch of stuffy introvert types.......
I have been involved in running open houses since I was a teen at the Severna Park Model Railroad Club.
Like Howard, I can happily report very few problems of any kind.
Several members of the round robin I was once active in were on the NMRA convention tours when the convention was in Phily, again we had no troubles - even with snooty rivet counting NMRA types........
That round robin group did however have to ask a member to leave the group, as he was unable to observe some of the simple etiquette listed in the beginning of this thread...........
I have been to Howards, he is a most gracious host.
I have been to a great many open houses here in the Mid Atlantic, where houses have basements and amazing numbers of them are filled with model trains.....
Lots of great layouts to see......
Sheldon
I finally had custom passes printed for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE. Personalized passes for your layout used to be a great part of the hobby.
With the help of this thread, these are the rules I came up with for the back of the pass:
1) This is my layout.
2) No touching.
3) No picture taking.
4) No pets or children.
5) I do not care one bit how the real prototype railroads ever did anything.
6) No talking about the amazing imaginary layout you might build one day.
7) Any comments about anything you do not like must be kept to yourself.
8) If you think you could do better, go do it, but do not talk about it today.
9) You must leave immediately if the host becomes bored with your presence.
10) No smoking, food, drink, loose clothing, or anything else is ever allowed.
Rule 6 is funny right now, because my future layout, and even the layout room, do not exist right now.
Living the dream.
You planning on lots of visitors?
Lets see, I've had two family Christmas Eve events at our house in the last 7 years? (We rotate from family to family) since my layout was up and running.
So that means about 10 adults, and 18 kids under 12? (that's also counting grandson's friends on non Christmas visits) have seen my layout.
I can understand if you have a club and/or a large layout that you open for public visits, but me? I'm not worried about it.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewiYou planning on lots of visitors?
Nope.
I am very careful not to give a pass to anyone within 500 miles.
I also did not put any contact information on the pass. I guess I just wanted to trade passes with people.
We have quite a few layout tours offered in this part of southern Ontario, usually in early November. A couple of years ago, a friend decided to offer his layout as part of a tour somewhat near his location, and his was likely the one farthest from the centre of things. He asked me to come as an observer, just to ensure that visitors behaved properly.The first visitors were there when I arrived (it's about a 45 minute drive from my house), but they had come from over 200 miles away. I was surprised by the number of visitors that showed-up, though as his layout was certainly the most remote of those on the tour.He had specified in the tour book that the layout was not suitable for children, and that none would be admitted, and when a couple with children showed up, they were told that their children would not be allowed in. The couple did take a look around, but left fairly soon - not surprisingly.During a lull in the visits, I mentioned to him that I thought his take on kids and layouts was misinformed, and that I was there to keep an eye on them. I also expained that my kids (when young) and grandkids nowadays, had always been very respectful of my trains (that's how they were taught), and I often allowed them to run trains at the age of two or three (with supervision, of course). Small kids, by nature, like to touch stuff, so I always presented a few opportunities for that, too.
Anyway, several other visitors showed up and left, and as it was nearing the end of the afternoon, we were wrapping things up when another couple arrived. They mentioned that they were aware of the "no children" request, and also mentioned that theirs were "in the car".I looked at my friend, and got a somewhat hesitant, "Go ahead and bring them in." That couple, not model railroaders, stayed for an hour, asking questions, taking photos (they asked permission) and the kids (I'd guess 7 and 9 years) did not touch one thing, even asking sensible and thoughtful questions themselves.When they had left, my friend commented, "That was the most enjoyable visit of the day! They were actually interested, and their kids were well-behaved, too...I'm glad that you talked me into allowing them in!"
On the other hand, I was on a local layout tour and there was one kid (about 10 or 11, I'd guess) touching all manner of stuff on the layout, picking up vehicles and other details. I politely reprimanded him and got a mixed reaction of indifference and the evil eye from the brat's father. I did mention the incident to one of the guys which were running trains and answering questions.
I've thought about having my own layout on the tour, too, but I think that it's more suited to individual visitors, and SWMBO is very adamant that even those visits are very limited. In truth, I don't think that there's all that much of interest, as there's more stuff unfinished (or unstarted) than there is presentable, and the layout is definitely not suitable for operation by more than one person.
Wayne
No picture taking? Well, I wouldn't want anyone taking the pictures off my walls either.
There are TONS of layouts in a highly organized open house series that goes through November around here, lots of layouts, of all sizes and levels and states of completion. Probably mentioned it before in this thread since it's a year old.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190 I am very careful not to give a pass to anyone within 500 miles.
Hey Kevin-
Have you posted any images of the passes?
There was a layout featured in MRR a few years ago and the owner developed a complete livery including stationery and calendars and hats and coffee cups and whatnot. I'd like to do something similar. Guest passes could be interesting.
For what it's worth, I live 2300 miles from you. Two time zones away. And 6000 feet up.
Thanks.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Decades ago, I was active in a club which financed itself with annual open house days. We had very, very few problems with the pre-teen set but many adults had trouble keeping their hands off the scenery, structures, and equipment. They eventually installed plexiglass shields.
A few years ago, I dropped in for an open house while passing by. Had the pleasure of a club member latching on to me and steering me around while telling what "they" had done. 90% of the layout was unchanged from 20 years earlier ....
ROBERT PETRICKHave you posted any images of the passes?
There are a bunch of RR passes on Ebay. Some look like regular old card that you would get for being a member of a club, and some look like old stock certificates.
However nearly all are either for Jay Gould or signed by Jay Gould. I know he was a big wheel back then, but how can there be that many passes, just for him?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy ROBERT PETRICK Have you posted any images of the passes? There are a bunch of RR passes on Ebay. Some look like regular old card that you would get for being a member of a club, and some look like old stock certificates. However nearly all are either for Jay Gould or signed by Jay Gould. I know he was a big wheel back then, but how can there be that many passes, just for him?
ROBERT PETRICK Have you posted any images of the passes?
Hey Henry,
Thanks for the info. I didn't know about these things. Something for me to ponder for a while.
I did a quick check on Jay Gould. Says he was worth about 71 billion in today's dollars.
You notice a lot of his guest passes were No 1 (or some other low serial number)? I'm guessing he was given those passes for free as a courtesy. He might have been like Warren Buffet and many other barons . . . they only make money, they never spend any.
Anyhow, I'm looking for something in between a plain calling card and an ornate stock certificate. I know a guy who is into geo-caching. He had some plastic tokens made, and people in that hobby swap those things and send them all over the world.
I'll figure something out. Right now I'm just looking for ideas to steal.
Here you go. Sorry for the bad quality, cell phone photo.
I have a large collection of Private Roadname passes from the 1960s and 1970s. I think mine has many of the features required to give it an authentic look for this group.
SeeYou190 ROBERT PETRICK Have you posted any images of the passes? Here you go. Sorry for the bad quality, cell phone photo. I have a large collection of Private Roadname passes from the 1960s and 1970s. I think mine has many of the features required to give it an authentic look for this group. -Kevin
Hey, that's not bad!
I like the rules printed on the back; that way, no one can claim ignorance. Humorous, but legitimate rules, strictly enforced.
I suppose I'll have to come up with a pseudonym to represent the superintendent of the division who issues the passes. That way, I can sign them as J. Clement Kadiddlehopper or something. Authentic signature, fake persona.
First rough draft of a Guest Rail Pass. Front and back sides.
I would suggest a sign that says something like " Please to be keeping das mittenmitts in der pantsenpockets!"
ROBERT PETRICKFirst rough draft of a Guest Rail Pass. Front and back sides.
Robert, That looks really good.
I found Excel to be the easiest tool to use to get the front and back lined up when they printed. I centered one of the the columns, then centered the images in those cells and printed on both sides.
It was quick and dirty, but it worked!
riogrande5761 Doughless Wow, some of these stories about what visitors did or do is concerning. It fits the stereotype of the creepy train guy in the basement who never bothered to care about learning basic social skills. One of the most annoying is the lack of self awareness when they are hogging the hosts time by talking to him about how much they know. Some of this stuff has nothing to do with trains. Its seems like basically impolite people who got into the model train hobby. Welcome to the hobby. Sadly there seems to be a fairly high percentage of socially dysfunctional people in the train hobby, including vendors and folks who are manufacturing models as well. One guy lost himself a sale recently by being rude to a customer who was just trying to buy a model from him. I guess this company/importer feels we need his stuff more than he needs the customer. SMH But I guess social dysfunction isn't limited to train manufacturing exclusively, or the hobby. Sometimes people earn the stereo type that many of us end up facing.
I just have to say something here. First, there is no excuse for TRUELY bad behavior.
BUT, Traditionally hobbies like model trains attract introverts, who see the world differently than the now politically correct approved ADD, ADHD, extrovert, sound bite, "socially cool", instant gratification types who populate facebook and twitter.
Yes, introverts are often nerdy, and can lack some of the "social behavior awareness" of extroverts or those in the "middle" of the spectrum.
Guess what? 90% of the cool stuff in the world was invented by an introvert.
The introvert motto - "What you fail to understand is that my self esteem is not invested in your opinion of me."
Introverts measure themselves against their own high internal standards, not against the endless variations of reactions from others.
Could/should some of these folks work on their social skills? Sure.
Should we try to understand that not everyone sees the world the way we do?
Well that might help....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL "What you fail to understand is that my self esteem is not invested in your opinion of me."
Once quite the introvert myself, that, Sheldon, is, in my opinion, perfect!
Regarding this topic - layout ettiquette - sure, there are probably a few on this forum that could improve, but I'd guess it's preaching to the choir and those who are the worst offenders aren't reading this. Just sayin...