I am wanting to convert my small fleet of rolling stock over to metal wheels so I can run on the club layout, the question is, what size wheels to buy? I want an affordable but reliable brand of wheels in a general purpose size that would be suitable for all sorts of equipment.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Metal wheels are generally of a similar price range, around 10 - 12 dollars for a set of 12, which will do 3 freight cars. Most box cars of 70 ton capacity use 33" wheels, 100 ton 36. Hoppers, covered hoppers and tank cars tend to have 36" wheels.
Intermountain is a good brand to go with. MBK has them for $9.99 for a set of 12 axles. You can get bulk packs and save a bit on the unit cost.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Just to clarify I model from about 1940 to 1980 as far as rolling stock goes. Would 33" ones be a problem on a covered hopper?
NWP SWP Just to clarify I model from about 1940 to 1980 as far as rolling stock goes. Would 33" ones be a problem on a covered hopper?
For the smaller covered hoppers like the 2 Bay or 3 Bay in the following capacities of 1958, 2003, 2893, 2929, up to 3510 CF then 33" would be okay.
For the 2970/80CF ACF Two Bays, and all the larger ACF/PS like the 4427, 4740, 4750, 5250 then 36" would be proper. Also buy using the 36" wheel sets on the old bluebox ACF & PS Athearn cars, you don't need the Kadee Washers as the cars will now be at the proper height.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
You will need to look at the CAPY data on the side of the freight car. 100,000 to about 150,000 lbs cars normally use 33" wheels. Over that, 36" wheels are normally mounted. A typical 100 ton capacity grain hopper(200,000 lb capacity) will have 36" wheels.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
dti406 Also buy using the 36" wheel sets on the old bluebox ACF & PS Athearn cars, you don't need the Kadee Washers as the cars will now be at the proper height.
While I generally agree, I would only change out the wheelsets on one car of a set of like cars (all Athearn blue box 100 ton covered hoppers for example) to see if there is any interference between the larger wheels and any underframe parts.
If there is interference, then you will need to see if you are capable and willing to take corrective steps.
Why can't I just put 33" wheels on all the cars? Is there an operational problem? Or is it just "look"?
I'll try to answer this with both looks and operational. Now, the wheel diameter doesn't matter as far as rolling ot tracking, but there is or may be a problem with coupler height which is the operational end of the question. I would suggest getting the Kadee coupler height guage and make sure the couplers are the correct height after installing the wheels. Also I will add that you talk with the club members and they will help you with this also. Ken
As for looks, a 3" diameter difference is not that noticeable in HO scale.
Oporational issues however would indeed make it more challenging, and these would primarily be caused by incorrect coupler height.
If you are running scale sized coupler heads, this gets exaggerated even more so.
If the smaller diameter wheels make the couplers too low, that will be very easy to spot.
But to notice the looks of a HO scale 3" wheel size diameter difference on the wheels, you either need a scale ruler, or be the absolute biggest rivet counter on the planet!
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
When a car with 33" wheels is coupled to a car with 36" wheels, the difference is easy to see. The point is that we're all building models -- some cars had one size and some cars had the other. A lot of little details go into whether a car "looks right" or not, and wheel size is one of the easy ones.
Check coupler heights, check for rubbing on the underframe, fix the problems, and you're good to go.
For a real can of worms, ask about truck sideframe designs.
I really don't want to order a bunch of different wheels, I'd like to order just a bunch of one kind.
OK, my experience. The coupler difference between 33" and 36" is not a huge factor, couplers might not be perfectly in alignment, but it will work.
Use what the majority of your club members use.
I would say, get 33". You'll be safe either way.
Mike.
My You Tube
NWP SWP I really don't want to order a bunch of different wheels, I'd like to order just a bunch of one kind.
Cars that should have 36" wheels are often engineered for it. Walthers Centerbeams came with 33" wheels but all the couplers were too low. I switched to 36 and presto.For general service pre-1980 boxcars, 33" will almost undoubtedly be correct.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
The rolling stock I am wanting to convert are all Accurail kits and the stock plastic wheels "appear" to all be the same.
Again, check the "CAPY" marking on the car. Anything less than 190000 or so would be fine for 33" wheels -- typically 150000 to 170000.
NWP SWPThe rolling stock I am wanting to convert are all Accurail kits and the stock plastic wheels "appear" to all be the same.
Pretty much every Accurail kit I've ever assembled has the same trucks and plastic wheels included. I've put 33-inch Intermountain wheels on all of them, and they work fine.
Coupler adjustment is a routine job that goes along with changing wheelsets. I also use a Truck-Tuner to clean out the end bearings on the trucks. Since I've got the trucks off anyway, I spray paint them rust or dark brown and weather a bit with powders. It looks so much better than shiny black. Don't forget to mask the bearings and bolster hole while spray painting.
I don't bother painting the wheelsets themselves. I don't notice them. I don't care about rib-back or flat-back wheelsets. You can't even see those differences.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
You didn't say how many cars you wanted to replace the wheelsets on. If they are mostly Accurail from that vintage, you could probably get by with 33" wheels. A bulk pack of 100 would do 25 cars and they can be had for about $70. Or you could order a 12 pack that would do 4 cars for about $11 and see how it goes. Just be aware that the wheel sets come in standard tread(.110) and semi-scale(.88) so take that into account.
James in Texas
Now my club requires resistors on one axle per car (for CTC/signaling purposes) what would be the best resistor to put on the cars? I plan to use two per car, one on the inward axle of each truck. And how to attach said resistors? I'd like to keep it as inconspicuous as possible.
NWP SWPNow my club requires resistors on one axle per car (for CTC/signaling purposes) what would be the best resistor to put on the cars?
.
Now you are getting into something difficult.
For this one... ask your club. Look at what they have done for examples. Two axles per car is overkill. There will surely be several cars per detection block, so one axle should be plenty.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
jrbernier You will need to look at the CAPY data on the side of the freight car.
Also look if the car has a Plate C marker on it A square box that says Plate C. For sure those would be 100 ton with 36" wheels
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Steven:
My thoughts are a little simpler:
33 inches scales to .38 inches 36 inches converts to .41 inches.
As they roll past or sit in a siding can YOU tell the difference. 33 inch will always work, the only problem might be coupler heights, the shims fix that.
36 inch wheels on trucks\cars not designed for them may rub.
Do as you feel best
Dave
davidmurray33 inch will always work, the only problem might be coupler heights, the shims fix that.
The only wheel size I have ever had problems with is 28 inch wheels. When these are installed in some truck frames they allow the trucks to contact the track, and if it is a metal truck, you will have an intermittent short.
So 33" it is!
The main applications for the 28-inch wheels seems to be certain intermodal cars including the Impack spine cars, and the Tri-level auto racks which need them to fit within low clearance specs.
The 33" wheels will work for most of the Accurail cars except maybe the 4600 cu ft covered hoppers.
riogrande5761The main applications for the 28-inch wheels seems to be certain intermodal cars including the Impack spine cars, and the Tri-level auto racks which need them to fit within low clearance specs.
I was trying 28 inch wheels to get two flat cars to sit as low as possible. That was when I found out about the intermittent shorts.
I don't use 28 inch wheels anymore.
SeeYou190 riogrande5761 The main applications for the 28-inch wheels seems to be certain intermodal cars including the Impack spine cars, and the Tri-level auto racks which need them to fit within low clearance specs.. I was trying 28 inch wheels to get two flat cars to sit as low as possible. That was when I found out about the intermittent shorts.. I don't use 28 inch wheels anymore.. -Kevin
riogrande5761 The main applications for the 28-inch wheels seems to be certain intermodal cars including the Impack spine cars, and the Tri-level auto racks which need them to fit within low clearance specs..
I was trying 28 inch wheels to get two flat cars to sit as low as possible. That was when I found out about the intermittent shorts..
I don't use 28 inch wheels anymore..
The only thing I bought IMRC 28" wheels for are the Impack spine cars used to haul piggy pack trailers. There isn't any clearance issues with them.
The main thing is to use the right wheels for the right car. IIRC, flat cars would be 33" wheels.
Was it the flat cars needing to be lower or the couplers. The old Athearn blue box 85' flush deck flat cars did sit too high, so A-line made a metal bolster kit which would make them more correct in height and also add weight.
riogrande5761Was it the flat cars needing to be lower or the couplers.
This was a straight side 36 foot flat car from Funario & Camerlengo. The instructions said the cars had very low deck height. I used offset shank Kadee couplers and the 28 inch wheels to get the deck as low as I possibly could and still get the correct coupler height.
It was low when all was said and done. Too bad about the short circuits!
I'm sure you've already figured out what you want to do. Here's the straight answer you probably wanted in the begining.
If you haven't already purchased one, get a coupler height gauge from Kadee. Check the coupler height while the cars still have their plastic wheels on them. If the coupler is lower when measured with the gauge, you'll need to add a shim at the bolster to raise the coupler height. Get the shims from Kadee the red ones or gray ones (get both). If the coupler height is higher then you'll have to figure out how to deal with that.
Most cars with plastic wheels are the 33" flavor. There are some that come with plastic 36" wheels but I think it's only the Athearn 5-unit well cars and some passenger cars. If your coupler's height was good, then swapping out the 33" metal wheels will not affect the height. Don't worry about capy or prototype wheel stuff (unless that's what you want).
Now one thing to keep in mind is that there could be an issue with axle length. When you swap out the wheels you may find that the new wheels might have too much play or feel tight in the truck. In a situation like that you'll have to measure the original axle lenght (the one with plastic wheels). I know Reebox makes wheels with different size axles to fit a lot of stuff out there.
Another great tool to get is a truck tuner from Micro Mark. Good luck.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
As a general rule of thumb, near-and-over 200 ton capacity cars ride on 36 inch wheels while 100 - 200 ton capacity cars ride on 33 inch wheels. se
(Edit: Of course the break point I'm talking about is 100 tons, or 200,000 pounds, not 200 tons)
Also as a general rule for the modern era, everything except boxcars ride on 36 inch wheels.
- Douglas
jasperofzealIf you haven't already purchased one, get a coupler height gauge from Kadee. Check the coupler height while the cars still have their plastic wheels on them. If the coupler is lower when measured with the gauge, you'll need to add a shim at the bolster to raise the coupler height. Get the shims from Kadee the red ones or gray ones (get both). If the coupler height is higher then you'll have to figure out how to deal with that.
^ Standard procedures for building and getting kits ready for the layout. If coupler is too high, which is pretty rare, you can go with an over-set shank Kadee. You might also be able to file the bolster down.
Don't worry about capy or prototype wheel stuff (unless that's what you want).
For beginners that may be ok. The size is more noticable for cars like tank cars or hi-hip covered hoppers where you can see the wheels are alot more exposed visually. YMMV
Now one thing to keep in mind is that there could be an issue with axle length. When you swap out the wheels you may find that the new wheels might have too much play or feel tight in the truck. In a situation like that you'll have to measure the original axle lenght (the one with plastic wheels). I know Reebox makes wheels with different size axles to fit a lot of stuff out there. Another great tool to get is a truck tuner from Micro Mark.
Another great tool to get is a truck tuner from Micro Mark.
REBOXX makes an axle sample kit which has a range of axle lengths which are color coded. I bought one in case I need to check for axles sizes and order something specific from them.
So far I haven't felt it necessary to buy one of the truck tuning tools but may eventually buy one. They do seem like they would come in handy.