I am beginning a new layout soon and need some feedback.
The layout will be three feet wide and will go around the wall. My idea is to use two foot shelf brackets mounted to the wall and then bolt 1/2" plywood to that and glue 2" foam on the top. This would save a lot of money and time in building framework as far as I can see.
Does anyone see in negative aspects in doing it this way?
Thanks,
Robert
You really need legs to the floor, or diagonal braces to the wall no more than 12" from the front of the layout.
.
No matter how strong those shelf brackets are, you will have 36" of leverage against them when you lean on the front of the layout, and something will give (break and fall to the floor).
Don't fall into the trap of thinking you will be carefull. Eventually it will happen.
Nothing wrong with sturdy shelf brackets for the rear of the layout, but you need something more for the front also.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Good call. Thanks!
I totally agree with Kevin on the diagonal braces, it gives you the support, plus it leaves the floor area open with no legs in the way.
Mike.
My You Tube
Hey Robert,
You might want to add a stiffening girder along the front overhanging edge. Maybe a 1x3 or something.
LINK to SNSR Blog
Kevin is correct, that is too much overhang. In addition, folks have consistently found that they can’t reach more than 30” over scenicked and finished layouts without damaging something near the front edge. One’s dexterity is also quite limited at that reach.
Personally, I prefer to build larger layouts with risers to make it easier to level things and manage grades.
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Flying CrowThe layout will be three feet wide and will go around the wall. My idea is to use two foot shelf brackets mounted to the wall and then bolt 1/2" plywood to that and glue 2" foam on the top.
since you're thinking of a "shelf" layout, i recommend Designing & Building Multi-deck Model Railroads by Tony Koester. The book contains info about layouts in general.
in particular, Tony describes supporting his upper deck using shelf brackets. But his upper deck is only about 12" wide. His goal was to minimize the upper shelf thickness since it's multi-deck.
My layout is 2 ft wide on 2 walls. It's 1" foam glued to 1/4" luan plywood, supported on a L-girder frame. I used 1x2" joists. One girder is screwed to the wall. The outer one is set back about 6" from the front edge of the layout and supported by legs, as others have recommended. One outer girder is tee'd into the other. I added an extention on one end to make it 34" wide. I would have preferred to have angled supports back to the wall, but a baseboard heater was in the way.
I'm sure many would NOT recommend my fagile approach. It's not built like a house but has held up after 7 years. I wasn't sure how permanent it should be.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
You may want to rethink that 3ft reach. IMO, if the brackets were close enought you could skip the plywood. I ran 2in foam over 24in without issues
Interesting. How did you attach the foam to the brackets?
While most of the upper level of my layout is less than 36" deep (most at 32", with one area 39"), all of it is mounted on simple "L"-shaped brackets, welded together from 1" and 1 1/2" steel angle iron. These are lag-bolted to the wall studs, and the layout benchwork is screwed to both the brackets and the wall studs. I can reach over it and lean on it (when standing on a stepstool, as it's 59" above the floor), and have lain atop the 39" deep section in order to paint the back, normally unseen, sides of the rail. (I'm under 200lbs.)
With sturdy enough brackets, you don't need legs at the front of the layout. I would, however, question why you'd bother adding foam atop the plywood, unless you plan to add below-the-track-level scenery.
Wayne
Flying Crow Interesting. How did you attach the foam to the brackets?
screw a 1X3-4 to top of bracket,glue/caulk on foam
this wooked for me, and as stated above ''I'' wouldn't go out more then 24in without a brace of some sort
I misread the original post, and failed to notice that the plan was for 1/2" plywood on brackets, without any supporting framework. I'd still skip the foam, unless, as I mentioned, it's for scenic possibilities, but I definitely wouldn't skip a supporting framework when using only 1/2" plywood.
UNCLEBUTCHYou may want to rethink that 3ft reach.
I have to agree. We have some track that is 32" from the front edge of our new club layout and we have already figured out that we should have designed it to be closer to the fascia. We can reach it but we have to use step stools to get there. Sooner or later someone is going to slip off of one.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dependng on the type of shelf brackets used - if put in every stud along the wall, they can hold a solid shelf length of books. No model railroad is EVER that heavy. I don't see any reason for legs or huge diagonal braces. I wouldn't make the shelves 3 feet wide though. There's almost no need to, even at a yard location, you can get a lot of tracks in just 2 feet, and it will be easy for most people to reach anywhere from the outer edge to back against the wall. Only place you might need wider is for a turnback curve, but that would typically be on a penninsula and while much wider than 3 feet you should have access from 3 sides of something like that. The only hard reach might be some of the scenery to the middle.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
With no supporting framework, you will probably need shelf brackets about every stud to avoid potential sags along the spans. To avoid this, you can nail and glue 4 long 1x3s in 12 inch increments along the length of the ply from wall to shelf edge. This will provide spines for the ply and give it rigidity. Then glue your 2 inch foam onto the ply.
This will lessen the need for your complex big brackets to also provide rigidity. This way, you will only need a few brackets to support the weight of the relatively light benchwork.
I think it would be easier to improve rigidity by nailing 1 x3s to the underside of plywood than it would be to build and install large complex brackets every stud, IMO.
And 36 inches is a tough reach without having to lean on the front of the edge. Even if the edge supported your weight, its easier to mess up scenery, structures, or parked trains if you've got to put a hand on the layout to reach the back.
- Douglas
My layout is built just about that way. I made right angle shelf brackets from two by four stock, with big plywood gussets to make 'em good and stiff under load. I put a bracket on every stud, (18 inch stud spacing). Got one of those electronic stud finders to locate all the studs. The layout surface is 1/2 inch plywood with 2 inch foam board laid on top. I stiffened the plywood and gained a facia by enclosing each piece of plywood with 1 by 4 inch pine boards. My layout is limited to 24 inch wide to allow an easy reach to the back of it. You will regret making yours 36 inch wide.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarr I stiffened the plywood and gained a facia by enclosing each piece of plywood with 1 by 4 inch pine boards. My layout is limited to 24 inch wide to allow an easy reach to the back of it.
I stiffened the plywood and gained a facia by enclosing each piece of plywood with 1 by 4 inch pine boards. My layout is limited to 24 inch wide to allow an easy reach to the back of it.
That's my plan for benchwork as well. I'll put another 1x down the middle to prevent any chance of sagging in the center. Then attach the entire box-under-ply assembly to shelf brackets mounted 4 feet apart.
I would suggest 1/4" lag screws to attach the brackets to the studs instead of wood screws. Pre-drill holes in the studs to prevent splitting the wood. They will hold much better and stronger
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Since you plan to have 12" of overhang beyond the shelf bracket, I would use 3/4" plywood. And since you're not planning any framework, I would use 3/4" for that reason. Alternatively (or better additionally), attach a 1x3 to the bracket that extends out the extra foot.
Make sure you use good quality plywood. The best is Baltic Birch with 13 plies for 3/4" (and 9 plies for 1/2").
It's not very hard to overbuld a little in the beginning, but really hard to do it later on. I have never regretted over building. But I have regretted underbuilding.
Good luck
Paul
A lot of great suggestions. I appreciate so many other model railroaders weighing in on this subject and offering their advice.