Thanks, Jason, it is reassuring to have you post here, even if it's a rarity. And thanks for fleshing out your circumstances and your approach. I hope you get some strong interest and commitment for the Royal Hudson, and that you can move on to at least another couple of steamers. I think it would be nice, ephemeral a project though it may turn out, to have a strong legacy of top quality steamers that are highly regarded by users for many years to come.
I wish you success. I know you would rather have that than mere luck.
-Crandell
Hi guys,
Thanks for the positive words about the Hudson. It is indeed a very early sample - the first out of the moulds. We were surprised it could move! We expected it wouldn't...
The post on the Atlas forum had nothing to do with our steam program. I wanted to see what people thought about modelling the transition era based on the fact that our new Dash 8 (modern freight) is getting so much more publicity on Facebook and forums than any other model we've done.
I found it very surprising because the RDC, for instance, outsold the Dash 8 by 50%. And I'm talking quantity rather than dollar value. But you rarely see Rapido RDC photos on forums or on Facebook. It comes down to the fact that younger modellers are more likely to share their work online, and they are more likely to model modern freight.
The steam program will be determined entirely by the pre-orders for the Hudson. If it flops despite being regarded as a great model, then we have to reexamine our steam program. If the order deadline comes and we've met our sales target, then the D-10 goes to the mould shop the next day. We don't expect the Royal Hudson to sell in the same numbers as a D-10, but it still needs to meet its own sales target.
Steam is a whole new ballgame for us. While we have a sales target (which is a trade secret!) we honestly don't know if we'll sell 1000, 2000 or 3000 Royal Hudsons. We'll see on order deadline day, which is likely going to be July 1st.
As for participating on forums, I find there are only so many hours in the day. I probably should be more active in different forums but, to give you an idea... I was away last week on a trip to New York to do some promotional stuff. I came back to over 500 unread emails. I'm glad I checked in here and saw this thread.
I remember when I used to do all of our product development. Now I am only responsible for the British buses, the N scale GMD-1 and the TurboTrain. Everything else is being managed by Bill, Gareth, Dan D. and Josh. I don't have time to manage any other projects.
I guess these are good problems to have...
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
DAVID SMITH1234 How many of you that have pre ordered the Royal Hudson have any of the Rapido Canadian Pacific smooth sided maroon cars? I have 10 of em waiting to switch from behind my BLI CP Light Pacific. Wonder if Jason thinks there will be a renewed interest in these passenger cars to go with this loco?
How many of you that have pre ordered the Royal Hudson have any of the Rapido Canadian Pacific smooth sided maroon cars? I have 10 of em waiting to switch from behind my BLI CP Light Pacific. Wonder if Jason thinks there will be a renewed interest in these passenger cars to go with this loco?
I have thirteen of them. From what I understand C.P.s cars had a more rounded side on them, however, I stand to be corrected. They are close as we can get and will look good behind the Royal Hudson.
I have ordered the Blue version that was used in 1939 to pull the royals across the country. I am going to need the help of the experts to try and hunt down the appropriate cars to pull behind it. Not only what cars but who makes the best quality version of that particular car. I feel my airbrushing has advanced far enough that I may be able to do a decent job of painting them all. I have not been able to find a good list of info on the cars but someone will know. I hope.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
A little additional note: It's often boringly noted by pedants like me that you can't see 'steam' -- that white stuff is droplets of nuclear-condensation water, just as in clouds. Much of the 'condensation' in cylinders is wall condensation, and is reversible depending on pressure (so until the part of the wall metal involved in this, about .007, heats up reliably past condensation range in its cycling, you'll see visible effects when that, too, is relieved without significant back pressure).
But I think the 'billowing that goes on too long' is due to cold ambient temperature, where even steam from fully heated cylinders will condense within a short distance from the cocks -- the same effect that makes for such dramatic exhaust effects in wintertime.
Thanks, Selector.
Mike.
My You Tube
Mike, the cylinder walls get cold when steam is not being admitted to them. When they are cold, say after a full hour of the steamer sitting, the engineer knows that some typically tiny throttle seal leakage will have resulted in a bit of condensation pooling at the bottoms of the cylinders. Or, even if the valve doesn't leak at the throttle, when he goes to start the locomotive in motion, and yanks back on the throttle handle a bit to crack it, the steam will cool quickly as it meets the cold metal inside the cylinder, condense, and it will soon pool at the bottom of the cylinder. Water does not compress; it will form a hydraulic ram and blow the cylinder cap off whichever side of the cylinder toward which the piston is being driven.
So, the designers placed what are called 'cylinder cocks', one on each end of the cylinders, at the bottom. They're small valves operated by the engineer just prior to that first admission of steam after sitting a bit. When they open, steam pressure blows the condensate out of the valves, chased by lots of steam, and you see the billows emitting first from one valve, then switching to the other, and then back, commensurate with the motion of the piston valve atop the piston.
When the engineer figures he's warmed the cylinders sufficiently, he'll close those valves and the billowing stops.
Sometimes, like the billows of black smoke you see on excursion run videos, it's done more for effect by the time the driving wheels and pistons have cycled maybe six or seven times. It went on dramatically long in the video in my opinion. Certainly in the 40's it would not have been tolerated in real operations because, like that black smoke, it is inefficient and wasteful. It's money in heat energy going up the stack and out those cylinder cocks.
OK steam guys, what is going on here? Is it the air temp., or..I dunno! what is with all the overwhelming steam, and then it seems to just stop.
Remember, I know thing about steam locos, except what I've learned in here.
This steamer, with a decoder offering both whistles, would be the queen in my hive of worker bees.
Okay so if Jason can make my Hudson(s) do this, I will buy a third one. And throw in a little Gordon Lightfoot. Maybe the "Canadian Railroad Trilogy"
Here is a Canadian equivalent
BATMAN With stereo speakers in the unit, I'm hoping for the full Gordon Lightfoot music library to be installed.
With stereo speakers in the unit, I'm hoping for the full Gordon Lightfoot music library to be installed.
I have most of his records......
Sheldon
Would beat the silly radio chatter they want to put in most sound locos....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Has it been determined on the DCC version of the Royal Hudsons what the CV to play 'O Canada' will be?
Canandian steam has a lot to offer a US modeler due to their smaller size and heavy use of older wheel arangements while following US style (mostly). A moderm 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 in HO with 40' cars lets you pack a lot more into your available space. Even the large steam like the Selkirk is smaller than what an American line would use in the same service, think EM-1 or cabforward.
Think about it. (or use SW's for the same reason...)
I hope we get to see (and buy) the Selkirk and the U4.
I sure hope Rapido does the F2a Jubilee. Although I am a CN guy, that is one CP loco that I find very appealing. I do wonder if it will be produced as CP only built 5 of that version with the 80" drivers. That loco holds the official speed record for Canadian steam at 112.5 mph.
CN Charlie
Mheetu, you are undoubtedly very close to the mark, if not spot on. If I had to guess, I'd say the pre-orders are slow, and slowing, and it's not looking like a reasonable enterprise at the moment. He's knee deep already into the first project, well getting there anyway, and I think he might be having second thoughts. And I would completely get it. For the sake of the rest of his production, he should build what keeps him strong and in business.
I hope I'm wrong, I hope I am mispeaking, and I'll be very happy to be corrected. I would love a heavy Pacific and the H1-b. If he were to produce a non-streamlined 2-10-4, the T1-a 5900 series, I'd be all over that like white on rice.
I feel Jason is more concerned with the amount he would sell to recover the cost of investment since the series of steam locomotive being produce all Canadian. There only few Canadian Steam locomotive that operating in the United States (think it steamtown that got a few CPR and CNR). Also the population of Canadian modelers is rather small when compared to the United States. I have a feeling if the sells don't break even or have a small profit this might be the only steam. Also the cost of manufacturing in China is not as cheap as it use to be with a rising middle class. For example my family use to produce products in China to ship to NA market we now for the pass 15 years have shift manufacturing to Vietnam and finally packaging to China then export out... and that might even change with the rising cost.
BATMAN Here is the production schedule. I wish I wasn't so old. https://rapidotrains.com/iocs-future-releases/
Here is the production schedule. I wish I wasn't so old.
https://rapidotrains.com/iocs-future-releases/
I could go for a couple of those 10 wheelers undecorated an DC.
BATMANHere is the production schedule.
It's going to be hard to wait. But on the other hand -- wow, what choices!
Can someone explain to me why they illustrate a Canadian National class with a Grand Trunk Western American locomotive, though? It's not as if the actual class used in Canada was any less capable (although I do love the GTW shrouding treatment above the nose much, much better!)
selectorI do so enjoy your contributions.
Ditto!
Overmod selector I'm getting sweet on those Jubilee Class 4-4-4 greyhounds. It seems to me the Pennsy made two of them under one boiler. They called it the T1. Actually the 'real' Jubilees were better than 'half a T1', probably superior in a number of ways to a Milwaukee class A (with the larger grate area and better firebox circulation possible with the two-axle trailing truck, and maintaining the lightweight rod arrangement with the main rod acting on the leading driver pair). They were probably the pinnacle of lightweight high-speed steam power for relatively short streamlined trains, analogues of the original Hiawatha consists. I am regrettably unaware of a concerted Canadian effort to use them that way; someone enlighten me. (YES, I'd put down deposits for a couple if Rapido were to propose making them ... and I don't model any Canadian prototypes in general. (The later Jubilee class with lower drivers were just toy Pacific-size engines with a driver axle omitted, by comparison...) The Reading 4-4-4 was only in the Jubilee category by courtesy, bearing the same relationship to the 'real thing' that the Nord Baltics did to the early Hudsons (including the MILW 'Baltic' F6) which had delta-style trailers. Reading had a real problem understanding practical locomotive dynamics in those years (their novel excuse for a ten-coupled locomotive lead truck in this same era being one of the great unmitigated disasters in locomotive design) and putting a pin-guided, inside-bearing Adams truck under both front and rear of even the best Reading Atlantic (and they arguably had among the best!) was NOT an answer. (When the Germans tried this a couple of decades later they actually had to use an air cylinder to shift the trailing-truck pivot point to make the thing stable even at 80mph or so.) This aside from the fact that their 4-4-4 looked as if it were propped up and teetering even when standing still.
selector I'm getting sweet on those Jubilee Class 4-4-4 greyhounds. It seems to me the Pennsy made two of them under one boiler. They called it the T1.
Actually the 'real' Jubilees were better than 'half a T1', probably superior in a number of ways to a Milwaukee class A (with the larger grate area and better firebox circulation possible with the two-axle trailing truck, and maintaining the lightweight rod arrangement with the main rod acting on the leading driver pair). They were probably the pinnacle of lightweight high-speed steam power for relatively short streamlined trains, analogues of the original Hiawatha consists. I am regrettably unaware of a concerted Canadian effort to use them that way; someone enlighten me.
(YES, I'd put down deposits for a couple if Rapido were to propose making them ... and I don't model any Canadian prototypes in general. (The later Jubilee class with lower drivers were just toy Pacific-size engines with a driver axle omitted, by comparison...)
The Reading 4-4-4 was only in the Jubilee category by courtesy, bearing the same relationship to the 'real thing' that the Nord Baltics did to the early Hudsons (including the MILW 'Baltic' F6) which had delta-style trailers. Reading had a real problem understanding practical locomotive dynamics in those years (their novel excuse for a ten-coupled locomotive lead truck in this same era being one of the great unmitigated disasters in locomotive design) and putting a pin-guided, inside-bearing Adams truck under both front and rear of even the best Reading Atlantic (and they arguably had among the best!) was NOT an answer. (When the Germans tried this a couple of decades later they actually had to use an air cylinder to shift the trailing-truck pivot point to make the thing stable even at 80mph or so.) This aside from the fact that their 4-4-4 looked as if it were propped up and teetering even when standing still.
I do so enjoy your contributions.
selectorI'm getting sweet on those Jubilee Class 4-4-4 greyhounds. It seems to me the Pennsy made two of them under one boiler. They called it the T1.
....or, it could be a crafty marketing strategy to get people talking about the Rapido Icons of Steam Project (RISP).
Not sure I get this subtle nuance about the transistion era?
If you model the early 50's you likely model steam and diesel.
If you model the 40's you still model steam and diesel with a slighly different percentage balance.
If you model the 30's then diesels are new and rare.
But after about 1940, or 1945, the construction or advancements in steam were very small.
And a great number of steam locos from the mid/late 30's, and even a few from the 20's, worked virtually unchanged until retirement in the mid 50's.
Point being, a great many of the steam models out there cover a wide range of eras, some include a lot of diesels, some don't.
So the same steam model that would be at home on my 1954 layout, maybe close to its retirement, would be just as at home as a brand new loco on a layout set in 1935.
I do believe from what I have heard, the transition era remains most popular among modelers, even if those number have droped off - go back to my first post - more choices of eras as time advances, less percentages of modelers in each group, even if total number of modelers increase......
Still not buying into the age thing, I know too many "diesel only" 80 year olds, and too many "30 somethings" buying steam. It is about the growth of possible choices of era and a level number of possible customers. Sheldon
You don't have to buy into it; the topic was started by Jason, who seemed to be concerned about the status of transition. The question is what does he buy into?
I don't think it is a coincidence that topic being raised because his steam project has come up at about the same time and he seems to be thinking about that in the context of the transition era discussion.
Where is the steam part and what does the future hold? Is transition in decline and thus will modelers be buying steam at the same rate. If it is in decline, how long will the demand hold out before it tails off? Only time will tell of course - no one has a crystal ball and not everyone can be right.
Sure, of course there are 70 and 80 year old diesel only fans - and diesels were around when they were young. *Jedi Hand Wave* But Jason wasn't asking about that - he was asking about steam to diesel trainsition. In otherwords both, not one without the other. But steam is an integral part and with the Rapido steam series getting under way finally, there is the tie-in probably.
Obviously there are people into transition and steam who were not alive to see it for themselves in regular mainline operation too, but are they the minority of steam fans? Are they less than half? Probably, as common sense would seem to dictate, but without a statistically significant sample, neither of us can prove who is right about that. We can come up with many anecdotal stories and examples to support our side, but where are the hard numbers, the percentages?
Anyway, my guess is Jason asked his question on ARF for his own reasons, but logically he wanted the opinion of members of a forum where steam is not the maint topic of discussion or why ask there?
From what I have seen in steam oriented forums, naturally the argument is going to be strongest in defense of steam in all quarters and transition era. People can't help but be biased. I am biased too - nothing wrong with it - we all like and promote what suites us the most. We see our glass as half full and the others as half empty. And if I may be so frank, we all have our ego's invested - even our moderator has noted that. =D
The truth is out there.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983