countsrr
James,
My last comment on the topic. If you take a look at your track on the far LEFT side of your layout photo above, you'll notice that the straight track bows outward as it approaches the curved section in the back. If you remove the R18" section from your back curve, that will remedy that issue. It's physics. You have a 180-degee curve at the front and a 190-degree arc at the back.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'm not here to beat a dead horse, James. I guess I'm just not understanding your rationale or need for using the 1/3-section of R18" curve.
According to the Bachmann website, I learned that the R26" and R28" curves both come in 18-degree sections. So, with either one - 5 sections would make up a 90-degree curve (or 5 x 18 = 90) and 10-sections would make up a 180-degree curve (or 10 x 18 = 180). With all things then being equal that means you can create an R28" easement into your R26" curves as short or as long as you desire. Or, skip the easement altogether and just make it all with R26" curves, which should fit on your 56" wide layout table.
Again, I don't understand why you need the R18" curve???
So I'm going to surmise that the need for the 1/3-curved section of R18" track is because the R26" and the R28" curves come in different curved lengths - like the R18" and R22" curves. For example, R18" curves are 30 degrees and R22" are 22-1/2 degrees.
Again, it's your layout plan. And the fact that the unconventional sequence of curved sections actually works is what is paramount. The wary part of me, however, says that curve transitions go from larger radii to smaller radii - not the other way around; the former method being how the prototype accomplished it.
Also, assuming your R26" and R28" curves are either 30 degrees or 22-1/2 degrees each: The only combination of 10-degree, 1/3-curved sections that will yield you a 180-degree curved section is three. (10 x 3 = 30) At that point it makes more sense to use a full 30-degree curve section of larger radii track - whichever size that is. If only one or two 10-degree sections are used then there is no combination of 30- and 22-1/2-degree curves that you can lay down and get a true 180-degree curved section.
What this means is that your curved and straigh track sections kink slightly. While it may not be an issue now, it could be when the weather warms up and the metal rails begin to expand. Just sayin'...
If your layout is 56" wide then I personally would just go with all R26" curves (which will leave you a 2" buffer along the long side)...or have two, two-track sections (4, total) of R28" curved track as your transition curves into and out of each larger 180-degree curved section made up of R26" curved track, as outlined in my previous post.
FWIW...
richhotrain For the most part, you cannot successfully operate 85' passenger cars on 18" radius curves. Rich
For the most part, you cannot successfully operate 85' passenger cars on 18" radius curves.
Rich
LION could not get them to run on 24" curves. For some cars even 36" curves can be a stretch.
ROAR
p.s. = cant sea any of your photos, they seem to have evaporated.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
You used R26" on one end and R28" on the other? So the straight sections are NOT parallel with one another and taper inward or outward - depending on which direction the locomotive is running. That means that your rail faces and are NOT square with one another at the straight-curve transition junctions.
It's your layout, James, but I would try to avoid that. What you could do is start and end both of your 180-degree curve sections with pieces of R28" curves that reduce to R26".
For example, if 8 pieces of curved track make up a 180-degree section they could look like the following sequence:
R28 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R28
For a slightly longer transition you could substitute two of the R26" sections for R28", as shown in the following sequence:
R28 - R28 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R26 - R28 - R28
Just make sure that each 180-degree curved section is identical in sequence so that your straight sections end up being parallel to one another.
Hopefully that makes sense...
Did you go with R26" curves on both ends?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155018992@N05/28046415579/in/dateposted-public/
countsrr...so this evening I have been working hard I have made it 3.5 inches wider, and 24 inches longer so now it is 10’ x 43.5” that’s length and width I will continue this with ongoing expansion.
I assume from the posted photos and the use of the larger radii track that your layout increased to 51" rather than decreased to 43.5". I believe your layout table is going to need to be a least 3-4" wider in order to incorporate the R26" curved track comfortably...
Walthers Mainline cars on 18" curves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atvGIDpxVNg
On the other hand, some of my other Walthers cars won't even take 30" curves without either trimming off truck details, or cutting away skirting, neither of which I'm willing to do. But I really like these cars, so I redesigned the layout with 42" min. mainline radius to accomodate these cars.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I have seen explonations of track plans that come into and out of curves at broad gauge. Bit have a sharp curve apex. Never seen it in
practice on a layout. Nor in reality. Althought the prototype for everything clause exists.
i do have 85 and 89 foot cars run through 20 curves. But. I hand lay. My visible track allowing gauge tweeks that make that possible. The hidden track is all 25 inch. They cars are excursion trains Normally the biggest is the 64 foot trinity reefers A full amtrak train will successfully negotiate the Mainline at a reasonble passenger service speed
Wolfie
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Yea, it does sound like he mixing 28", 26" along with sticking in a couple 1/3 sections of 18", to get it all to bend around and fit on his bench top.
I guess I've read about other modelers that mix radius sections.
Mike.
My You Tube
Is there any way you can post a track diagram of your layout - including where the different radii curves fit in your track plan? What you are describing is somewhat unclear and confusing - at least to me. It almost sounds like a hodge-podge of track pieces with various radii snapped together to fit the space.
If you are want to run long (85') passenger cars, any R18" pieces of track will have to be eliminated. If you can widen your layout by even 1' (e.g. from 48" to 60") that would allow you to use the R26" and R28" curves exclusively.
mobilman44 Sometimes I really missed my old Athearn cars, which were flawless in operation.
Sometimes I really missed my old Athearn cars, which were flawless in operation.
Alton Junction
I've had two sets of the Walthers passenger cars for some time. Even with my minimum radius of 26 inches (with easements), I had some trouble with about 1/4 of the cars. As I recall, coupler/diaghram/truck interference were the basic problems.
The first thing I did was replace the couplers with long shank KDs, and that solved most of the problems. Then I had to do some careful trimming of the under carraige of a couple cars, and unjam a couple of non flexible diaghrams.
These are great cars, but they need work (oil axles) right out of the box. Sometimes I really missed my old Athearn cars, which were flawless in operation.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have to say after reading the Walthers description that it is very misleading for Walthers to state on its website that these cars will operate on 18" radius curves.
gmpullmanSo, my point is, the longer draft gear (coupler boxes) may not fit a Mainline car (Or, more likely, they are already used on that car). I am only familiar with their Proto line. I only provided that link to show you what they looked like. Sorry if I messed you up. Regards, Ed
The Walther Mainline 85ft. cars are the same cars as the Walthers Proto. The Proto series comes with grabs installed, lighting installed, Metal trucks with extended body mount couplers, which are Protomax, a very good copy of a Kadee, looks exactly like it. The Mainline has plastic trucks with couplers attached to them. Light compared to the Proto. They have a kit that comes with Metal trucks/wheels in the light kit, along with the extended coupler arrangement. Also sell a kit with the body mounted couplers and grabs to install on the Mainlines. No drilling or filing nesscessary, because like I said...the cars are the same/ under body and holes are already there.
I have ten of the Mainlines and converted all of them so they are just like the Protos....but I use 1/4 shank Kadee couplers for a closer fit for the diaphragms which both the Mainline/Proto come with. Money wise.....I saved about ten $$ adding all the items myself....but also improved some of their engineering especially any light bleed through on the body and how the light pick-up works.
I run broad curves though..not a problem. Looking at the OP's board....He's asking the impossible........He could add longer shank couplers into the talgo style trucks that come with them....but would really look weird. Big dreams in little space, don't work with long passenger cars.
Take Care!
Frank
Drumguy First: when a manufacturer says an item will navigate X minimum radius curves, that probably mans it will do so at 5 scale mph. 30mph or more and you hit the floor.
First: when a manufacturer says an item will navigate X minimum radius curves, that probably mans it will do so at 5 scale mph. 30mph or more and you hit the floor.
Drumguy makes a good point. I see some (many?) people feel they have to run their trains at warp speed. Model trains will operate much better at slower, "scale" speeds, especially when you are running close to tolerance limits (as is the case here). They look better as well, less toy-like. Easement curves might help in your case. Certainly wouldn't hurt.
You didn't mention any details about how they were derailing, or how fast you were going, or if it was any car or just a certain one, so it could be one or a combination of several causes. Another poster mentioned it's a hands-on hobby, and you often have to do some fiddling to get things right. I find that's quite true, and to a certain extent part of the fun of the hobby.
Bubbytrains
Actually, the nickel silver track with the grey road bed is better than the steel alloy track, with the black road bed.
When I began to use the Walthers Heavyweight passengers cars with diaphragms, the accompanying literature said they'd work on 24" minimum. That was optimistic. On perfect curves, trailed behind a locomotive, with the cars and trucks and their couplers all perfectly assembled, that was indeed the case...they'd work slowly on 24" curves. Then, I tried to back them....
Long story short, I found through trial and error that the longer Walthers cars do a lot better with more 'generous' radii. I found that 28", the way I was prepared to lay them, worked both trailing and shoving the Heavyweights. That's about 17% broader a curve than Walthers claimed. Nothing to sneeze at, especially after going to all the trouble to lay nice 24" curves. And then finding out that Walthers' #7.5 curved Shinohara turnouts in HO, in Code 83, were considerably undercut in their stated two radii.
I will agree with those who suggest that you'll have much greater success on 23-24" curves. If you can find the room, shoehorn another two inches on top of that.
Hang on a minute, Countsrr!
countsrrand Culper extenders mentioned above
I mentioned the extended draft gear with the assumption you were using Walthers Proto passenger cars, probably their most popular line in HO.
The model number, which I finally figured out as 910-30361 (the number you provided, 910-3036, came up as a grain elevator) is actually a Walthers Mainline series which probably already has extended couplers since Walthers claims the 18" radius for.
https://www.walthers.com/85-budd-observation-ready-to-run-canadian-national-silver-black-noodle-logo
So, my point is, the longer draft gear (coupler boxes) may not fit a Mainline car (Or, more likely, they are already used on that car). I am only familiar with their Proto line. I only provided that link to show you what they looked like. Sorry if I messed you up.
Regards, Ed