I just built my 1st HO layout in 30 years. Previuosly I had a G scale Garden Railroad and an N scale layout. I am at the Ballasting stage and I did a test track to see how everything works using medium ballast. I also used Woodland Scenics Scenery Cement to hold the ballast in place. I wet the ballast in alcohol before applying the glue but it doesn't seem to be holding the ballast that well and I am wondering if the size of the ballast maybe the problem. Should I be using fine ballast over the medium or should they both work about the same and I am just doing somethong wrong. Any advise that anyone could give would be apprecited. Thanks Jberti
I ballasted quite a while ago. I used Woodland Scenics gray ballast in the size they recommended for HO. Cannot remember just what Woodlands Scenics called that size. I secured the ballast with ordinary white glue diluted 1 to 1 in water. I put the loose ballast down on the tracks and shaped it, brushed it off the tops of the ties. Then I sprayed it with wet water from an old Fantastic Cleaner plastic spray bottle. I gave it enough to moisten every piece of ballast. Then I applied the white glue and water mixture by carefully pouring it out of a plastic dishwash bottle.
I have had some crumbling of the glued down ballast over the years. In some places I had spread the ballast too thickly and the glue failed to soak all the way down to the bottom. Lesson learned, keep the ballast layer thin, one or two layers of crushed stone. Other places I had not applied enough glue to wet the ballast all the way down. Lesson learned, apply plenty of glue.
One of these days I will have a ballast reglue project.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I feel I may have answered you on another forum, just last evening. The Woodland Scenics ballast is really crushed walnut shell. It floats and leaves your carefully pre-soaking grooming in a mess. I would not recommend using it. Use Arizona Rock & Mineral products instead. Or, find 'sharp' sand at your local builders' supply outfit...they usually have a couple of yards of the stuff in their back 40 with all the stacked milled lumber and various cement pavers and such. Home Depot sells 40 pound bags of clean sand. If the colour isn't all that critical. If it is, again, Arizona......
You will also find, btw, that the sand won't require such a density of glue/water mixture to be a nice solid mass. You have to make the glue for the walnut shells that much thicker so that it sticks up in the mass and doesn't drain out the bottom. That, unfortunately, is precisely what makes the light grains of shell float...away, down, sideways, over the ties you had just cleared of stray grains....everywhere.............................but where you need it to be.
Sandblasting mediums work well as ballast and are cheap too.
LION uses CAT LITTER, but them him sees nor reason to glue the ballast either. Gravity seems to work as well in HO as it does on the BNSF out front.
The problem with HO scale gravity is that the roadbeds are so steep that passing trains vibrate the stuff off.
SOLUTION: Apply glue to the sides of the roadbed and then sprinkle your ballast there, then the unglued ballast you sprinkle on the tracks will not slide off.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Before final ballasting, I brush straight white glue on the sides of the roadbed, then sprinkle on some ballast and let it dry completely. This will give your final ballast some tooth so that it doesn't wash away. Also, thoroughly soak your ballast with alcohol, wait about 5-10 minutes, then dribble on your diluted white glue. You can use either a medicine dropper or, I use those condiment bottles like you see in some burger joints. Diluted white glue tends to separate if it sits for a long time. I drop in a couple of large fishing weights so that they act like the ball in a rattle can of spray paint. You may have to tap the bottle against something to loosen it.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I use the Woodland Scenics ballast, the fine and a few other of their colors, along with their ballast cement.....but, I mix it with Isopropyl alcohol and nothing else. No water or soap detergent. It drys quicker sticks better and nothing floats away. My track is all laid on Homasote, that has been pre-painted with an air-brush before the track is laid. Once track is laid and everything works.....I paint the rails and parts of ties also with an air-brush. Once satisfied, I lay the ballast right over the dry trackwork and use a oven baster or pipette to apply glue. It drys in about 2hrs. and looks loose...but by no means, is it loose.....some spots where I used alot, will take a little longer to dry..most of the layout was built in 1980 and the ballast hasn't come up yet. I had re-done parts of the track work and changed it....removing the ballast was easy. Just spray alcohol on it remove the spikes and track comes up. No glue to scrap off the ties or ballast.....works for Me! All My track work is spiked with ME 3/8'' spikes. All Atlas code 83 flextrack, with Atlas/Shinohara turnouts.
A load of gravel for some spots in the truck terminal.....it is finer than sand:
Take Care!
Frank
BTW: To The Forums
I use 1 part white glue to 3 parts water for my ballast. I found that spraying either wetting agent or glue just made a mess. Now, I use straight isopropyl alcohol applied with a pipette, for wetting, and a small Elmer's glue bottle to apply the glue itself.
You can dilute the alcohol. The first time I tried straight alcohol, it was because I was lazy and just used it from the bottle, but then I discovered that the whole mixture dried much more quickly. With thinned alcohol, it sometimes took 2-3 days to dry completely, while with straight alcohol it was dry overnight.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Did a small n layout. used woodland scenics fine ballast and their spray on glue. no problems getting ready to do a larger layout along w/ a Bachman spreader and gluer see how that works out
Hello all,
Check out this thread on ballasting...
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/258968.aspx
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Link didn't work for me but try this https://tinyurl.com/y78h3prg
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Jberti,
How long did you let the ballast dry? It has to be completely dry - in my area this can take a couple of days.
While WS is not my favorite ballast, I do use it in combination with other types and it can yield excellent results. There are a ton of threads on the subject that offer good advice. You can find these with a search on the forum. Patience and practice will help.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have used WS ballast for many years with no problems. IN the past I wet it with water and some dish detergent, but have found 1 part rubbing alcohol with 4 parts ater works better. I spray it on with a misting bottle, then use Elmers white glue diluted 50:50 with water. I apply it with a baby's medicine dropper
It usually sets up overnight, but in the summer when it is more humid, it can take longer.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I gave up on Woodland Scenics ballast more than twenty years ago.
.
I have used Arizona Rock an Mineral ever since. Fortunately, Colonial Photo and Hobby in Orlando carries a good assortment of their products.
I hold it in place with Matte Decopage glues thinned 5:1 with water, and really soak it in. I use PhotoFlo 200 as a wetting agent in the mix, also available from CP&H. It takes 2-3 days for it to dry.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I use white glue diluted with alcohol and water with a drop of dishwashing detergent. The amounts of each are changed depending what I am doing with it. Less white glue for grass and weeds, more for ballast. What I like about the white glue is you can soak it with warm water and remove it.
jberti I just built my 1st HO layout in 30 years. Previuosly I had a G scale Garden Railroad and an N scale layout. I am at the Ballasting stage and I did a test track to see how everything works using medium ballast. I also used Woodland Scenics Scenery Cement to hold the ballast in place. I wet the ballast in alcohol before applying the glue but it doesn't seem to be holding the ballast that well and I am wondering if the size of the ballast maybe the problem. Should I be using fine ballast over the medium or should they both work about the same and I am just doing somethong wrong. Any advise that anyone could give would be apprecited. Thanks Jberti
Hello and welcome to the forums.
How long are you waiting for the ballast to dry? I have found that it takes as many as 2-3 days in a dry climate to get the ballast to harden, longer if the air is damp. I soak with straight 70% isopropyl alcohol and use 50% water/50% elmers white glue.
If you see something you dont like, dont try to fix it wet, you will only make it worse.
My club doesnt allow ballasting within 1 week of a show for this reason, we have had, um.."issues" resulting from wet ballast.
Cost can be a problem. Shipping a bag of rocks is more expensive than shipping walnut shells.
That having been said, Im going to give real rock ballast a try.
to the MR Forums, Jberti!
The ballasting question pops up fairly regularly here, so I put my method into a Word document, and have pasted it below.
I keep seeing comments about people dreading having to ballast their tracks, or, from people who've tried and not had success, about what a crummy task it is. What follows is my procedure for ballasting - there are others that work as well, but this one uses readily-available and cheap tools and materials. And it works!
The choice of ballast is up to you - I use both Woodland Scenics Fine Ballast , and real rock ballast, too, on my HO scale layout, but there are many other brands and sizes available, and plenty of colours. If you use natural materials, like sand, dirt, or decomposed rock, it's best to use a magnet to remove any magnetic inclusions that might possibly damage the motors in your locos.
To ballast your track, I find that a small paper cup (such as those kitchen or bathroom Dixie cups) gives you great control over where the ballast goes. I usually move the cup along the centre of the track, tapping it as I go, to keep the ballast flowing. Less than you need is better than too much, although a soft 1/2" brush is useful for pushing around the excess or levelling what's in place. Don’t use the brush to brush the ballast around, especially the WS ballast, as it’s very light and will fly all over the place. Instead, lay the brush almost parallel to the ground and drag the ballast along. Then go back and do both roadbed shoulders in turn. Use the brush to level and re-arrange things as required, making sure to keep the ballast away from the throwbar area and the flangeways of the guardrails. To remove stray ballast from the tie tops, lightly grasp the metal ferrule of the brush between the thumb and forefingers of one hand, laying the handle across the rail tops, then, as you move the brush along the tracks, lightly and rapidly tap the brush handle with the fingers of your free hand. The stray ballast will "magically" bounce off the ties and into place between them.
If you're also ballasting turnouts, make sure to keep the level of the ballast below the tops of the ties, and don't place any ballast between the ties surrounding the throw bar. To avoid gluing the points to the ties, place two drops of plastic-compatible oil atop each tie over which the point rails move, one next to each point rail, then flip the points back-and-forth several times to spread the oil. Parking the points in mid-throw will also help to ensure that they don't get glued to the stock rails, either.
You can mist the contoured ballast using either water and alcohol, or water with a few drops of dish detergent added. Either should work, although I prefer the detergent, as it's cheaper and works just as well. I generally do fairly long sections of track at the same time, and the alcohol may evapourate too quickly to be effective over a longer period of time (I save my alcohol - not the denatured kind - for a nice drink after I've completed the ballasting.) Use a sprayer that will allow you to spray a fine mist. To avoid having the force of the spray dislodge loose ballast all over the landscape, aim the first few spritzes upward, letting the droplets fall like rain. Once the surface has been dampened, you'll be able to spray it directly. Make sure to thoroughly wet the ballast right down to the base. Not doing so is probably the main reason that many people have trouble getting a decent-looking and durable ballasting job. To apply the glue/water mixture (white glue works just as well as matte medium and is way cheaper, especially if you buy it by the gallon. Those who claim that white glue dries shiny are not using sufficient wetting agent. The proportions should be about 50/50 water/glue, although a little heavier on the water will still work well). To apply the glue mixture, don't ruin a perfectly good spray bottle (and while doing so cover your rails and anything else nearby in glue, too): instead, use a dropper. An eyedropper will work, but a plastic squeeze bottle with a small nozzle will be much faster. Simply move along the track, as quickly as necessary, allowing the glue mixture to drip onto the ballast (or ties - you won't see it once it dries). You should be able to see it being drawn into the ballast due to the wetting agent. I usually do the area between the rails first, then the sides in turn. The glue mixture will spread throughout the ballast and down to the roadbed, so make sure to apply enough to allow this to occur. The result will be ballast bonded solidly in place, yet with the appearance of loose, individual pieces.
Where I have scenic areas adjacent to, but below the level of the track, I also apply the basic ground cover, which also helps to soak up the excess glue that spreads out from the ballast line. If you're applying ballast (or ground cover) to steeply sloped areas, use a suitable-width brush to apply undiluted white glue to the slope before applying the ballast or ground foam, which will help to hold everything in place while you apply the wetting agent and the dilute white glue (these steps help to bond the top layers of material to those in contact with the unthinned glue, and also help to draw that glue up into the top layers).
Depending on how deep your ballast and adjacent scenery is, the glue may take several days to dry. Don't touch it while it's still wet (you'll make a mess) and wait until it's dry before cleaning the rails - I used a mildly-abrasive block intended for polishing electrical contacts.
Wayne