Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Historic modeling?

2701 views
25 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Historic modeling?
Posted by Howard Zane on Sunday, November 19, 2017 9:43 AM

I see both in person and in video (you tube) many quite nice pikes of mostly contemporary settings or periods. I realize that most model what we have a history with....henceforth my modelng the 40's and 50's, but us dinosaurs who model this period soon will be gone. Is there a future for millennials and generation X'ers to pick a period from history and build their miniture world around that particular peroid?

I do remember years back folks from my generation doing exactly this. During the earlys 60's I did visit several layouts set from the civil war period right up through the early 20th century. There is still today much available either in RTR or kits of this period. I do know a fellow in my area in his 40's who is modeling the NYC west of Albany in 1942. I seriously doubt that his parents were alive then. His fun is in the research, constructing, and acquiring models from that period. last time I saw his work, it was rather impressive and seemingly accurate as I'm from that era.

I have seen a few modelers imbibe the John Allen type of modeling. Then there is George Sellios modeling urban decay during the 1920's and 30's New England influence....and quite well at that!

After the new video on my pike comes out (still no links), I'm seriously thinking of striping most of the pike down to the benchwork, selling most of my 40's and 50's models, and try to recreate the turn of the century (19th to 20th) in the north Jersey area. Only age (once relic....now collectible) is my concern. I've been lucky with health issues, so there is a strong possibility that I'll do this. My wife, Sandy is quite supportive as long as I do not knock out another basement wall.

I have been building Victorian home models now for years and commercial buildings that would have been from this period. If you do reasearch, check out what Morristown and Paterson looked like in this era vs. today's structures. Of course I'm a history nut and this would work for me.

Just a thought if some get tired of diesel lashups and today's architecture.

HZ

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2017 10:04 AM

Howard - modeling the pre-WW I era is certainly an intriguing thought, but not an easy task to do. It starts with a lack of good quality, well detailed motive power from that period and ends at missing vehicles, figures clad in period clothing and other nitty-gritties, which are so important to establish the period atmosphere.

 

  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 201 posts
Posted by marksrailroad on Sunday, November 19, 2017 10:23 AM

I think I'll just stick with the transitional period. It was hard enough to buy all of the autos and so forth for that era but I can't even imagine how hard it would be to try and model the early 20th century...

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, November 19, 2017 10:39 AM

This is my 1,000th post!

.

I model 1954, which for me is "historical" I guess. I was not around for another 15 years.

.

Model Railroader has done many surveys through the years that seem to always show the "transitional" period is the most popular to model. I wish they would break it down by age. I would not be surprised if a lot of people like me in their late 40's are modelling this era.

.

The only steam locomotive I have ever seen in real life was when the Freedom Train rolled through Florida in 1976.

.

I think my love of steam engines comes from my love of all things heavy and mechanical. I have been involved in the repair of heavy duty and high horsepower diesel engines my entire life. Steam engines have always fascinated me. Steam locomotives were necessary for my model railroad.

.

I prefer freight cars from the late 1960s and early 1970s, so that is a problem. I decided to go with steam power instead of colorful freight cars.

.

In N scale I modelled 1968, so I have experience with both. Steam is the better choice for me.

.

My layout is not a "time machine" taking me back to my youth, but a stage for the machines I love to perform on.

.

If I was going to switch eras again, I really think I would go to S scale Dystopian SteamPunk.

.

.

Now THAT is something that could really get the creativity transmission into overdrive!

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
  • 3,130 posts
Posted by dstarr on Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:01 AM

Steam engines, with all sorts of moving parts out in the open, are fascinating machines.  I'm pretty sure there are, and will be, a lot of model railroaders modeling steam era roads just because they like to see and run steam engines. The "transition era" is popular because it allows one to operate both steam and diesel engines with plausibility.

  I'll grant you that doing a model railroad set before 1914 might be a little difficult, but there are a few appropriate steamers for that era on the market, and some kit bashing and scratch building should yield enough motive power for a decent model RR. 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Nashville, TN area
  • 713 posts
Posted by hardcoalcase on Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:54 AM

I'm with ya dude! Yes

I model a freelanced regional anthracite carrier in the year 1910.  The location stems from my family history.  The time period from my favorite locos - early Mallets and small to mid-sized Consolidations, and my interests in that turn-of-the-century.  

Adding to the attraction, is the architecture, the unusual equipment (camelbacks and the wide variety of "experimental" freight cars), and the overall fun of doing something just a little bit different.

There appears to be a little more interest in this TOC era than we typically see in the pages of MRR, the Yahoo Early Rail Group claims almost 1400 members.  But going forward, I'd expect modern era modeling to dominate at the expense of transition period, with historic modeling continuing as a small speciality interest.

Jim

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Southern California
  • 1,682 posts
Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:02 PM

    When I was a kid in the 1970s and 1980s it seemed like everyone was modeling the transition era of the late 1950s. Mostly those were guys who were teenagers or in their 20s then and were recreating their glory years. I wanted contemporary because I had not yet reached that age yet. A lot of my equipment I bought in the 1990s and the thought was that I would keep my layout contemporary but the reality is that I have an 80s-90s model railroad. I have no nostalgia for the 1950s since it was before my birth so I have no interest in modeling it.
However I do have an interest in the late 1800s and I have been doing research on the Virginia and Truckee railroad, and I have begun collecting locomotives and rolling stock for it. My current layout is whimsical but I plan on having my V&T layout be as historically accurate as possible. Having the internet helps make this possible because I can find information a lot easier than in the past. I can even use google maps to see where the old turntable was. You can still see the remnants of it.
    Why 1800s V&T? Part of me likes the wild west, stage coaches, mining, gun fights, train robberies, cattle drives etc. I use to live in Reno so the V&T is local and I have actually been there. Also Kit Carson, a wild west pioneer, was a distant relative of mine.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 71 posts
Posted by Nevin on Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:06 PM

I model the Tonopah and Tidewater and the Las Vegas and Tonopah circa 1915.  It really isn't that hard to do.  My sense is that the modeling the "1950's transition era" that was so popular is being replaced with a lot more different time eras varying from civil war era to pre-1900 to 2017 industrial switching layout.  

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:12 PM

I’m a transition guy.  The memories of my teen years and trains were the best railroad times for me.  I love the huge articulated locomotives of the early 50s late 40s.  Early on I wasn’t into diesels at all.  I had purchased a few PAs in the early 90s and a couple of GPs & SDs in the mid 90s.
 
I built my fictional Southern Pacific layout to fit in to the early to mid 50s in the El Paso Texas / Southern New Mexico area.  My love of the New Mexico mountains made it a must for my layout.
 
After I retired 10 years ago I got into buying clunkers off eBay and restoring them.  I now have more 50s era locomotives than I know what to do with.
 
John Allen was and still is my mentor.  I dreamed of building my layout to the same quality of John’s first G&D but my skills never even got close to John’s.
 
Howard, your layout is the greatest layout I’ve seen.  I don’t know how you could even think about doing a remodel.  Having to remove even one of your beautiful structures would do me in let alone a large section.  
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:17 PM

Howard,
I model the NHRR, which died over 6 years before I was born.  Why?  Because the trains that I remember seeing in my youth (in the 1980's to early-1990's) are boring.  Amtrak F40PH's, MBTA F40PH's, and Conrail B23-7's.  Amfleet cars, MBTA Horizon cars, and CR local freights.  That's it; that's all there was.  I could model my entire youth era with 3 engines, a dozen passenger cars, and a dozen boxcars.  Ho-hum.

Instead, I choose to model what we had before I was born because the NH was just so much more interesting.  A 4-diesel MU could have 4 different locomotives from 4 different manufacturers in 4 different paint schemes.  Not only did the NH have cabooses, but they were in 7 different paint schemes.  The NH's passenger trains weren't all the same car body, they routinely had 6 different kinds of passenger cars on one train (in multiple paint schemes).  Commuter trains were 4 or 5 different kinds of heavyweights, Budd cars, or The Comet.  The NH used to run mainline freights (not just locals), and these would leave Boston at 5:00, 5:30, 6:00 and 6:30 every night, right in the middle of the evening rush.

I have little to no interest in modeling my youth.  Nothing that has followed the NH has been better except the Acela; it offers faster service than the NH did, but that came after my college days.

Instead, I model the NH.  No particular era of the NH, but if it's NH I want it.  My plan is to be able to model the NH in any era, but the oldest equipment I have dates to 1907 (an original NH electric EP-1).  There just isn't much pre-WWI that's accurate for NH.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:48 PM

Well, I'm another transition era guy, but not old enough to have been there.

I model 1953, I was born in 1957.

I do not even own a model locomotive that represents a post 1954 prototype.

I only have about 3 pieces of rolling stock that represent post 1954 - let over from some earlier 1960's modeling when I was a teen.

I have a fair number of Victorian era structures for my layout, in real life I live is a 1901 Queen Anne - fully restored.

Model railroading would hold no interest for me without the "historic" component, modern trains just don't interest me enough.

So time is frozen here on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.

So much for the notion that we model the trains of our youth........

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 1,855 posts
Posted by angelob6660 on Sunday, November 19, 2017 1:19 PM

Howard, 

Generation Xers are people in their 40s and 50s. Millennials are people in their 20s and 30s. I think you should worry about the kids who are in high school. 

I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s, and I'm 31.  I was fascinated with New York City and I liked the NYC Hudsons pulling the Century. My modeling was going to be 1938.

When I was young I looked at a lot books with different railroads paint schemes which I thought were still around. But I was wrong. 

I was going to that one guy who kept modeling the present day back I quit after 2006. Because the Union Pacific locomotives I had wore than red sill instead of the yellow.

I go through a lot different eras:

Late 1950s- New York Central

1960-1967- New York Central, Santa Fe

1971-present- Amtrak

1977-1999 Conrail

1979-1981- Burlington Northern, Chessie System

1990s- Burlington Northern, Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, BNSF, Santa Fe, 

2000-2006- BNSF, Union Pacific some CSX, NS, and CP.

It looks messy and I might stuck to one when I more permanent layout. I love steam engines but I can't hold them for have a bummed hand.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • From: Kokomo, Indiana
  • 1,463 posts
Posted by emdmike on Sunday, November 19, 2017 1:21 PM

I disagree with Ulrich, the motive power is out there in the form of brass imports from years ago.  Plenty of detail, most just need a fresh motor and painted.  Greg's Garage had some pre WW1 vehicles I believe in thier cast resin line.   Yes its more work, just like civil war railroad or pre 1900 modeling is.  But there in lies the challenge.  Do we as modelers take the easy route with all the RTR modern era equipment available today?  Or do we take up the challenge that those like Howard and model an earlier time period that actually takes some "work" and "modeling skill" to achieve a believable result?   I myself am 44, and enjoy pre WWII pacific northwest logging modeling.  To me, modern era diesels are borring.  I enjoy railfanning, but have zero interest in modeling what I see everyday.     Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, November 19, 2017 1:46 PM

I was a teen in the 1970's watching the SP on the mainline between the bay area and Sacramento and over Donner Pass.  I also saw D&RGW a bit in the 1970's and early 1980's so I am firmly interested in the last 1970's thru early 1980's.  I find modern kind of ugly and boring and like the interesting variety freight cars of my period which included a good amount of fallen flags and color ful per diem box cars.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Posted by Howard Zane on Sunday, November 19, 2017 2:02 PM

Wow! I cannot believe the reaction I received in just two hours about changing my railroad including already a phone call. I may modify my thinking to building a new railroad in one of our guest suites which is around 20' x 10'. Years back I tried this, but with On3 and found it quite difficult to serve two masters as in which railroad do I work on today? Now that the present pike is near completion (or appears that way), possibly I can see just maintaining it for visitors and occasionally myself and proceed with a new pike upstairs modeling the earlier period as described. Actually should this work out, there is a way I could eventually expand it, but I could just eventually run out of years. This new railroad coud also be built in sections as to be moved as it would be in a room adjacent to our upper deck with a wide staircase. Now I have much to think about. I do have a rare and serious desease which most medical types probably never heard of...SIMS (Shark in motion syndrome) meaning that if I stop building, I'll croak up in record time. A shark will die if it does not keep swimming. There is no cure other than more choo choos.

HZ

HZ

 

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, November 19, 2017 2:12 PM

Howard Zane

Wow! I cannot believe the reaction I received in just two hours about changing my railroad including already a phone call. I may modify my thinking to building a new railroad in one of our guest suites which is around 20' x 10'. Years back I tried this, but with On3 and found it quite difficult to serve two masters as in which railroad do I work on today? Now that the present pike is near completion (or appears that way), possibly I can see just maintaining it for visitors and occasionally myself and proceed with a new pike upstairs modeling the earlier period as described. Actually should this work out, there is a way I could eventually expand it, but I could just eventually run out of years. This new railroad coud also be built in sections as to be moved as it would be in a room adjacent to our upper deck with a wide staircase. Now I have much to think about. I do have a rare and serious desease which most medical types probably never heard of...SIMS (Shark in motion syndrome) meaning that if I stop building, I'll croak up in record time. There is no cure other than more choo choos.

HZ

HZ

 

 

Howard, one or two thoughts. Earlier you mentioned George Sellios and his F&SM. Personally, you and he are great modelers, but in my view, your structures and scenery are much more "realistic".

Photographic evidence clearly shows that virtually no part of the "depression" was as depressing as protrayed by Sellios. Just my view....

Unless you are set on changing trackage and terrain to match a specific place, would you really have to strip the layout down that for to change its era?

What about simply removing/replacing/modifying those elements that are too modern? A great many of your structures would clearly be correct well back to 1900 or before - as is real life - it is 2017 and I live in a 1901 house.

Sheldon 

    

  • Member since
    July 2017
  • 71 posts
Posted by Nevin on Sunday, November 19, 2017 2:26 PM

I model the Tonopah and Tidewater and the Las Vegas and Tonopah circa 1915.  It really isn't that hard to do.  My sense is that the modeling the "1950's transition era" that was so popular is being replaced with a lot more different time eras varying from civil war era to pre-1900 to 2017 industrial switching layout.  

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:30 PM

Sheldon,
Not to mention that most of the F&SM large buildings would fall down from their own weight.  As masonry structures get taller, the walls must get thicker at the bottom and the windows should be fewer and skinnier.  But the F&SM buildings have uniform walls.

BTW, one of my old hobby friends had been to the F&SM, and his quote was, "The Great Depression wasn't that bad."  He ought to have known as he had lived through it.

Still a great layout, but just not as realistic as one might think.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:40 PM

Well, I'm firmly in the early 50's - steam and diesel on the Ma&Pa.  However, with the Ma&Pa all steam locomotives were built before WWI except one - and that was 1925.  Ma&Pa passenger cars were open platform truss rod.  Their rolling stock was of similar vintage.  This allows me to run equipment from the early 1900's through early diesel switchers.

 

If I were to change eras, it would be 1905.  Although i have to say that 1840's in O scale would be intriguing as well.  the larger scale would be offset by the smaller equipment.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, November 20, 2017 12:15 AM

I'm 16 and I model 1940s to 1960s sure I'll buy the occasional SD70ACE or SD40-2 but I still prefer the transition era but then again I like old cars and listen to and sing old music thats me. (Also I have Aspergers Syndrome so that leads to my lone wolf lifestyle) Anyway I truly think that enough people have an interest in model railroading that the transition era should continue to be a subject of layouts but I think it's imperative that people who experienced and witnessed the transition era pass down their knowledge to youngsters to help ensure that it remains an important subject matter.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Monday, November 20, 2017 6:36 AM

In the US, there is a cultural fascination with the postwar period.  This has manifested itself in many forms.  I suspect that people will be modeling the postwar era (1945-1960s) for quite some time.  The sheer availability of second-hand pieces from this era will only reinforce this choice.  

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 20, 2017 7:14 AM

Howard Zane

Is there a future for millennials and generation X'ers to pick a period from history and build their miniture world around that particular peroid?

I've said it before, and I will say it again. As we dinosaurs grow older and die, the hobby will die with us. No future generation will match the enthusiasm for model railroading as do those of us born between, say, 1930 and 1950.

Howard Zane

After the new video on my pike comes out (still no links), I'm seriously thinking of striping most of the pike down to the benchwork,  

Ya see, this is what happens as we grow older, we begin to lose our minds.   Laugh

Howard, are you nuts?  Take down your masterpiece, your work of art?  Don't do it.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Posted by Howard Zane on Monday, November 20, 2017 7:56 AM

Rich,

I ain't never claimed that my possum was fully cooked. Three wives will attest to that and thanks for the fine words.

I have decided yesterday to go with plan B.....leave the basement layout as is and build the smaller historic pike in a guest room. I'm now building structures and rolling stock. Over the years I have accumulated many Central Valley period freight cars, dozens of Labelle both freight and passenger car kits, and several others like Sequoia, etc,. I have a fine collection of period brass from this period. It is truly amazing how many brass imports are from this era. I will be focusing on 1900-1910, so still 4-4-0's could be found in service. But first my annual physical in two weeks.............

Also modeling a time when we had a fine president like Teddy Roosvelt seems to be somewhat of a driving force. Then of course my existing pike is during the Ike years.  Today???? Sorry no more politics!!

HZ

 

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 20, 2017 8:05 AM

Howard Zane

Rich,

I ain't never claimed that my possum was fully cooked. Three wives will attest to that and thanks for the fine words.

That first part spoken in jest.   Smile, Wink & Grin

That second part spoken in sincerity.   Yes

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,854 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Monday, November 20, 2017 8:30 AM

I'm 41, but model the 1940's.  Not for post-war fascination, but during the war fascination.  I've always loved the 1930's through WWII period:  Steam locomotives, art deco, beautiful 1930's automobiles, radio was king, and a "can do" attitude from the country.  There was a point in my youth where I was convinced I would model the 1980's, but luckily came to my senses!  I had plenty of friends who loved my trains, but didn't model themselves, so Rich's statement may be partly true, but perhaps they'll remember when the time is right.  

Mike

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, November 20, 2017 10:39 AM

Howard,Here's what I been seeing lately. It seems the transition era is slowly dying and interest in the railroads of the 70/80s seem to be growing and contemporary modeling as always been with us since there as always been modelers that model what they see.

I've notice my grandson's(he 24) generation of modelers knows far more about any diesel or freight car then they do about NKP 765 and could care less because they have no interest in steam..They know their modeled railroad history as well.

As I often mention I recall the last days of main line steam but,never had a real desire to model the transition era  even though I have own some steam engines. I even tried modeling around 1900 but,couldn't stay interested just like my short live steam powered switching layout.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!