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Walthers code 83 curved switch tracing

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Walthers code 83 curved switch tracing
Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 1:39 PM

I have seen various threads here (see below for one) and elsewhere on the internet saying that the Walthers code 83 curved switches (made by Shinohara) do not accurately list the curved radius measurments in the catalog. For example, Walthers lists itas a 24"R/20"R but others have said it is more like 24"R/16.5"R. 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/138163.aspx

Does anyone actually have one of their #6.5 switches on their layout? If so, would you be willing to make a pencil tracing of it for me? Likewise, if you have a #7 I would also love a tracing of that.

I have also seen that their code 70 switches have different radius measurements, but to be clear I am only interested in the code 83 curved switches.

Thanks! 

Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:35 PM

Sounds like the subject might make a good article in a model railroad magazine.

 

Ed

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:42 PM

Download the Walthers Turnout Templates.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:54 PM

Benjamin Maggi
Does anyone actually have one of their #6.5 switches on their layout? If so, would you be willing to make a pencil tracing of it for me? Likewise, if you have a #7 I would also love a tracing of that.

Hi,

I don't think I have any turnouts as tight as the #6.5 but I would have to take another look at the layout. I might have one in the engine terminal. Can't easily read the bottom once they're spiked and ballasted.

 IMG_0261_W by Edmund, on Flickr

I DO have some marked No. 7, 28° - 24° See Photo. The top-most turnout is not marked with a frog number. I presume it is a No. 8.

 IMG_0265_W by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 IMG_0264_W by Edmund, on Flickr

Note, the 26 - 3/8 Radius is simply a template that I made for another track-laying project. I placed it on the turnout only as an example.

 IMG_0263_W by Edmund, on Flickr

You can see that the diverging route of the No. 7 is pretty close to a 22 inch Radius, between the rails.

If I come across a No. 6½ I'll update the information. Note that Shinohara uses a ° and not an R. I don't know the reasoning behind that.

If you want me to scan the actual No. 7 turnout I can do that as time permits.

Hope that helps—

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:55 PM

Benjamin Maggi

I have seen various threads here (see below for one) and elsewhere on the internet saying that the Walthers code 83 curved switches (made by Shinohara) do not accurately list the curved radius measurments in the catalog. For example, Walthers lists itas a 24"R/20"R but others have said it is more like 24"R/16.5"R. 

 

There are two different radius measurements to consider.

One is the drop-in replacement radius.  The other is the MINIMUM radius.  Perhaps that's where the difference is coming from.

 

Ed

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Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 3:22 PM

RR_Mel
 Download the Walthers Turnout Templates. 

 
Mel,
I saw those templates but I am looking for a full size template. I think blowing them up would make them extremely fuzzy, but maybe I will need to try it anyway.

Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 3:25 PM

Edmund:
Thanks. I believe the #7 will be too large for my layout space, which is why I am leaning towards the #6.5. My mainline minimum radius is 24" which is what the outside of the switch will be. The inside will lead to some storage tracks, but 16.5" radius (which is what some have said it is) might be too tight. Still, a template would be useful if you do happen to discover you have on on yoru layout. Thanks!

Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 6:32 PM

I put the Walthers 6½ curved turnout template in my CAD and this is what I came up with.
 
 
 
The outside track radius center measures 24.4145”, the inside track radius center measures 18.93375”.  The dimensions in the picture above are the outside rail length.
 
The accuracy is about .05” per the accuracy of the Walthers template.
 
You were correct about it being fuzzy.
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by dante on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 9:04 PM

I have several each of all sizes of Walthers/Shinohara curved turnouts on my layout. I carefully checked the radii of each by overlaying them on a radius drawn on a board and also by checking with metal radius templates by Ribbonrail. Unless the manufacturer has changed them in the last 2-3 years, the radii are definitely misstated. The outer radii are correct, but the diverging radii are consistently overstated by exactly 2". Therefore, the actual radii are: 36/30, 32/26, 28/22 and 24/18. Trust me.

Dante

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, November 8, 2017 11:05 PM

Benjamin Maggi
Thanks. I believe the #7 will be too large for my layout space, which is why I am leaning towards the #6.5.

Consider the PECO Code 83 turnout. Radii are larger, and about a #7 frog, but  more compact than equivalent Walthers. I use them a lot for client projects and they seem to be working very well.

Templates:
https://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Track-templates/c83/SL-8376%20&%20SL-8377.pdf

Be sure to print them full size -- handy scale bar on the template page to double-check.

Byron

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 9, 2017 12:36 PM

dante

I have several each of all sizes of Walthers/Shinohara curved turnouts on my layout. I carefully checked the radii of each by overlaying them on a radius drawn on a board and also by checking with metal radius templates by Ribbonrail. Unless the manufacturer has changed them in the last 2-3 years, the radii are definitely misstated. The outer radii are correct, but the diverging radii are consistently overstated by exactly 2". Therefore, the actual radii are: 36/30, 32/26, 28/22 and 24/18. Trust me.

Dante

 

Agreed.  Its more like a 6 inch difference than the listed 4 inch.  The outside radius is listed pretty accurately.

- Douglas

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Posted by SNCF_fan on Monday, February 25, 2019 11:11 AM

gmpullman, I just found this old and dormant thread while trying to find more data on Walthers curved switches, particualrly the arclength each main route defines.  Have you measured the the arclengths subtended by the main route curve of thses switches.  Taking rough numbers off your photographs I am able to calculate the #7 1/2 at approx 28.6 degrees and the #7 at approx. 31.1 degrees.  Do these calculations in any way agree with your measurements if you have them?

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, February 25, 2019 9:15 PM

SNCF_fan
gmpullman, I just found this old and dormant thread while trying to find more data on Walthers curved switches, particualrly the arclength each main route defines.

Hi, SNCF and Welcome!

I have a few "loose" curved turnouts that I will try to measure when time permits.

In some cases of the installed curved Shinohara turnouts I have shortened the diverging rails a bit so the arc length will be less.

Thank You, Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, February 25, 2019 9:42 PM

I compared my #7s to Kato 22" radius track sections, and the inner curve is almost identical.

.

That is good for me.

.

I hope this helped.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 7:59 AM

Carl Welcome to the forum

Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available?   They run around $50 on ebay.

Shinohara closed down, and Walthers has found someone else to manufacture their turnouts, but there is no word on curved turnouts.

Sorry to be a party pooper.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 8:13 AM

They are still not too hard to find. They show up on auction sites, train shows, and old stock in model train shops.

.

I only use old style solid frog Shinohara turnouts, and had no problem getting the 50+ I need for my layout. It just takes time and money.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:49 AM

BigDaddy

Carl Welcome to the forum

Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available?   They run around $50 on ebay.

Sorry to be a party pooper. 

I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range.  During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly.

The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.

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Posted by m sharp on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:52 PM

riogrande5761

How are these turnouts electricallyt different? 

Mike

 

 
BigDaddy

Carl Welcome to the forum

Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available?   They run around $50 on ebay.

Sorry to be a party pooper. 

 

 

I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range.  During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly.

The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.

 

riogrande5761
The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly. Add Quote to your Post
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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 6:11 PM

m sharp
How are these turnouts electrically different?

DCC Unfriendly or DC

The point tips are connected by a metal bar as are the hinges for the point rails.  Meaning both point rails and are the same polarity and there is a potential for a short if a wheel hits the off side point rail.

Because they are power routing, both closure rails, the frog and the frog rails are one polarity (same polarity as the points).   Both frog rails need to be isolated from the connecting tracks

DCC Friendly

Points are always of a different polarity as are both closure and both frog rails.  The frog is insulated on both sides

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by SNCF_fan on Friday, March 1, 2019 9:51 AM

gmpullman,  It is just the main route arclength which I need as that is what defines the curve of the yard lead I am considering.  A measurement plus/minus a few degress should be good enough for me to determine if this will fit the proposed location or not.

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

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Posted by SNCF_fan on Friday, March 1, 2019 9:56 AM

riogrande5761
 
BigDaddy

Carl Welcome to the forum

Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available?   They run around $50 on ebay.

Sorry to be a party pooper. 

 

 

I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range.  During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly.

The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.

 

Their no longer being in production is rather a bummer but yes I have found a few store websites that still list them so I'll have to make the decision as to whether or not I'm going to use these and move along a bit faster than I might usually do.

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, March 2, 2019 12:47 AM

SNCF_fan
gmpullman,  It is just the main route arclength which I need as that is what defines the curve of the yard lead I am considering.  A measurement plus/minus a few degress should be good enough for me to determine if this will fit the proposed location or not.

If you look at the photo I posted there is a notation with the degree of arc written on each tag. These are the designations molded into the underside of each turnout. Those seem to agree with your calculations.

I will check again and update my reply if I gather more information.

Thank You, Ed

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